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215 Comments
- chrisnixon, on 10/10/2007, -18/+61There has been a lot of talk of the EU bullying Microsoft with this case, but it's simply Microsoft refusing to operate within the law. They are allowed to have a dominant market position, but they must not be allowed to abuse it by stifling competition.
- Harrison88, on 10/10/2007, -10/+52But isn't Apple doing the same thing by only allowing iTunes to connect to the new iPods?
- johnhummel, on 10/10/2007, -13/+48Thank you for mentioning that. Even in the US, I still hear people say "Well, Microsoft was punished for getting rich."
No - Microsoft was punished not for *being* a monopoly, but *acting* like a monopoly *while* being a monopoly. The difference? If you *are* a monopoly, you can have your product be sold everywhere and be pretty much the only consumer choice. *Acting* like a monopoly is going to the people who sell your products and say "If you even entertain discussions with my competitor, I'll charge you *double* what I charge everybody else, and you know that will put you out of business". On the latter side, using your monopoly power to threaten or stifle other would-be competitors is the problem.
Microsoft has a history of doing both. Look at Netscape - a clear example of a monopoly *acting* like a monopoly. Why isn't Apple considered a monopoly with the iPod? Because so far, they haven't *acted* like one (in other words, you don't see Apple threatening Amazon that they won't sell them iPods if they accept NBC's TV shows - they can charge $50 for an audio/visio cable, but that's just being a bunch of dicks).
I would even say that the recent ISO voting - where Microsoft was clearly buying votes (or even paying countries to sign up brand new ISO accounts just so they could vote Microsoft's way) is an example of a monopoly *acting* like a monopoly - which is the big no-no. - trenchfever, on 10/10/2007, -4/+37The comment system sucks,, Thats how.
- ottodv, on 10/10/2007, -9/+31Apparently this case started in 1998 and Microsoft can still appeal to one higher court.
But it's still something and at least good to know that Microsoft doesn't completely get away with its anti-competitive behavior. - emmanuelsotelo, on 10/10/2007, -12/+28"Microsoft has now been ordered to pay 80% of the Commission's legal costs, while the Commission has to carry a specific part of Microsoft's costs."
What I hate about these cases is that a lot of the money collected just goes to pay off the lawyers. At the very least, the EU should donate some of that money to some open source foundations/projects. - Nossie, on 10/10/2007, -5/+21no but you do see them actively preventing 3rd party apps from interacting with their hardware.... I'm quite an apple fan myself but it wouldn't surprise me if Apple was any different from MS if Apple were in that position.
-- only sayin' ! - robuk24, on 10/10/2007, -11/+26sorry about the spam... no idea how / why that happened!
- sonycam, on 10/10/2007, -6/+20Although I'm a Brit (and therefore instinctively hates being in the EU), I have to admit, the EU does spend money wisely. The bulk of this money will probably go to charity, open source projects, emergency funds and the like.
- robuk24, on 10/10/2007, -18/+32They can afford it!
- RockinRoel, on 10/10/2007, -2/+15I assume that it was a joke.
Or anti-Mac trolling. - hplasm, on 10/10/2007, -8/+20Are you using Windows? ;)
- bakunin, on 10/10/2007, -11/+22To all you US-protectionist Microsoft fanboys, there is an easy way out for Microsoft:
Stop doing business in Europe. I and many other software professionals would love the opportunities that a truly open market would enable. - inactive, on 10/10/2007, -9/+20Looks like Steve Balmer is going without lunch this week.
- Nossie, on 10/10/2007, -5/+16BeOS, Netscape, Samba, Apple, Sun, IBM, etc etc etc all might disagree with you
- EugineMW, on 10/10/2007, -12/+21Next up: Apple?
- hostilefreak, on 10/10/2007, -4/+13Yeah, he can lose some weight./
- sinatosk, on 10/10/2007, -4/+13now thats ironic...
- GMorgan, on 10/10/2007, -5/+13This is the first case, they either change their behaviour or find this happening every week. It's part of a concerted campaign by the EU to deal with monopolism.
- Klarth, on 10/10/2007, -5/+13I'm having serious deja vu here. Didn't MS go through the same thing with Internet Explorer ten years ago?
(not that most diggers are old enough to remember that.) - RockinRoel, on 10/10/2007, -5/+12This is an appeal, so they lost the original one. They didn't learn anything from the original, so I don't think they'll ever learn.
My view is: Microsoft, stop making operating systems or web browsers, you're so much better at making other software, like Office. - r3zonance, on 10/10/2007, -0/+7There were web browsers before IE you know...And they were better than IE too.
- GMorgan, on 10/10/2007, -5/+12The EU will spend it all on making our food even more expensive.
- Nossie, on 10/10/2007, -4/+11eh? sorry but the reason there is no competition is because Microsoft has sunk them already.... They were sued 10 years ago when all this started...
I guess you've never heard of BeOS then? Or Microsoft actively fvcking with SAMBA just to play games? Or the rest of the ***** that the company has pulled over the years.... IF you think Apple is bad now, I suggest you look up on what Microsoft has done over the years.
"Apple refuses to untie their OS from their hardware (huge mistake in my opinion)......"
Apple did that once... Steve Jobs came back and saved the company from bankruptcy... apparently before Steve left for Next, he too wanted to open the OS to other manufacturers... I cant remember who made the final decision to do it, but I'll bet Jobs has changed his own mind since.
I might add however that Apple like most other corporations would love to be in MS position, and like MS would fight ravenously to stay there. - lyzz, on 10/10/2007, -2/+9The fine isn't the important part here. There is also clauses about releasing specifications. That should level the playing field a little.
- 4DFX, on 10/10/2007, -21/+27I love the EU! Proud to live here! :D
- Cyber_Akuma, on 10/10/2007, -6/+12I fail to see the problem with them bundling a media player with Windows. Its not as if you are being prevented from downloading your own, and most people would probably just download WMP anyway. God forbid they actually include other applications with the OS.
Lets remove MS Paint too so they don't monopolize the image editing market. And notepad so they don't monopolize the plain text editor market. Solitare has to go as well, no monopolizing the casual game market.
While I am at it, for that ruling that states IE cannot be included with Windows in the UK... If the OS comes with no browser just how is somebody supposed to download one? Find one on a cd somewhere from years ago? - GMorgan, on 10/10/2007, -2/+7To have perfect integration you establish a standard. There's no reason why they can't allow that standard to be reimplemented.
- suppaibeg, on 10/10/2007, -5/+10Are diggtards really this ***** stupid?
- trenchfever, on 10/10/2007, -9/+14They can but this oughtta teach them to play fairer.
- FrederikNS, on 10/10/2007, -5/+10oh yes indeed, but lets see how long it'll be before anti-trust makes that case right...
- RockinRoel, on 10/10/2007, -3/+8Apple doesn't bundle their iLife suite (which iTunes is part of) with OS X. They bundle it with the hardware, like every single computer manufacturer does.
Okay, Quicktime is built in into OS X, but it's clearly intended as a feature. - bobbilljoe, on 10/10/2007, -8/+13Good job Europe!
- Nossie, on 10/10/2007, -1/+6Which is why the French are demanding Apple open up iTunes..... RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT
-- only sayin'! - Prophasi, on 10/10/2007, -5/+9Wow, that's really....insane. I'm amazed at how you can possibly distort reality to this extent. You're not "forced" to buy any PC, period. Build your own, go with a Linux vendor, buy a Mac, or hell -- pay a high schooler to put one together for you and install Ubuntu. Your options are more open than they've ever been.
You're not "blinded" by anything; and, in fact, you're saying here that you're wise to the fact that you don't have to use Windows, so what's your complaint? It sounds like you not only want to be forced to use Windows (which you're not), but you simply don't want to ever have to hear of it or see its logo ever again.
While it's a shame your mentality's that fragile (or your susceptibility to marketing or what's on the shelf in front of you), your abstract complaints aren't valid reasons for altogether forcefully eliminating a product that plenty of people use and like. - Redsblog, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5The EU is already looking at Apple for something a bit different. Apple may face action for breaking trade laws within the EU, for example in Britain I'm allowed to buy products from France (even Amazon.fr) if it's cheaper than in the UK, however I can not buy a cheaper song from the iTunes store for France.
Edit: Story here - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6520677.stm - Tippis, on 10/10/2007, -3/+7"Windows Media Player and IE captured the market only because they were bundled with the dominant operating system. If they hadn't been bundled, they probably wouldn't exist today because neither are very good examples of software in their chosen categories."
I might agree with you on WMP, but at the height of the browser wars, IE was actually a far more competent browser than the competition. IE was most certainly helped by being a part of the OS -- there's no denying that -- but let's not forget that, in addition, MS threw a TON of resources into browser development.
IE won, not just because MS integreated into Windows, but also because Netscape simply couldn't match the development resources of MS. Rather than pooling their resources and trying to leapfrog IE in capabilities, they got caught in a rather vicious and draining cycle of feature catch-up, which meant that by the time they managed to actually get a new browser on the market, the war was already over...
Both came out MS' position as a market giant, but the bundling was only half of the strategy: the other half was to actually have a good product. The fact that MS instantly ceased to develop that product after they had won quickly made that good product into a (comparatively) bad is the source of the whole "they won with an inferior product" legend, but it is actually not entirely true -- they won with a good product, which then quickly turned old and bad. - Nossie, on 10/10/2007, -2/+6I dont know.... you are apparently one of them :)
- aliguana, on 10/10/2007, -13/+17next up: The EU sue Apple for abusing their music-player monopoly and bundling iTunes with OSX.
- geehossiphats, on 10/10/2007, -2/+6Uhh, since when has it been for free? It's figgin embedded in the OS you paid TOP-DOLLOR for.
- inactive, on 10/10/2007, -2/+6Microsoft WILL finally get around to paying this fine... once the value tops $1bn. Then they'll bargain with the European courts to provide businesses and schools within the European Union with $1bn worth of free Microsoft products and services. This will hinder the uptake of FOSS and introduce whole new generations of commerce and academia to Microsoft vendor lock-in. It is the Redmond way.
- bromac, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4They did get sued for the IE thing.
And you know just as well as I that the reason people use WMP and MSN Messenger is because they come standard on every single Windows machine. Microsoft used Windows to gain Browser and Media Player monopolies.
If it was an equal playing field, you'd have to go download WMP just like Real Player. - Nossie, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4that is so very true.... and so would Apple be a monopoly if they ever got the opportunity...
The problem is not Microsoft being a monopoply, its for abusing its position AS a monopoly. And yes, IBMs old board had some dodgy dealings... But hey MS, board has changed in 10 years, think the company has? - ilolled, on 10/10/2007, -3/+6Difference is, OSX has 5% market share and the iPod about 70%. No where near the 95% share windows enjoys.
Apple can't choose the default media player and browser for the entire market. Microsoft can, and did, that's the problem. - Nossie, on 10/10/2007, -2/+5Actually no they havent...
Office,
Games,
hardware support (winmodems etc)
O/S Warp anyone? and I thought MS was IBMs partner! do partners intentionally fvck printer support?
In each of the above cases MS actively sabotaged competition... so no, there was no choice - but I can see choice in the future, its brighter now, with or without this ruling. - RockinRoel, on 10/10/2007, -2/+5I get that sometimes. Really something they should fix.
- Nossie, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4I dont mean apps like the iphone.... I mean the lack of connectivity with other music players... Its their own hardware... if they want to screw it up themselves they are more than welcome. (apple has always been known to bite the hand that feeds)
Not *actively* allowing people to put music on their devices without using itunes is like
Nintendo suing, Action reply for making 3rd party non licensed hardware... (which they lost)
OR
Like Atari suing a games publisher for bringing out an Application that was compatible with their console..... which they too lost also. - brim4brim, on 10/10/2007, -3/+6Excuse me but the EU has already moved against the ITMS for unfair sales as they have different prices in different countries within the EU which is a common trade zone.
The EU will move against Apple when it is a problem. If they stopped sales of the iPod or fined them massive amounts of money they would have to do it to about half the MP3 manufacturers on the market. Forcing users to use iTunes is not illegal. You have a choice of MP3 player, you don't have to buy an iPod and lock yourself into the system. That was your choice when purchasing the product.
This the EU hates Ms is idiotic. I'm far from the EU's greatest fan but I'll recognise they do some good and in this case they are not being too hard on Ms. - Tippis, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Actually, it *isn't* completely legal if it is unfair to the consumer, as their recent clash with Norway showed...
- Nossie, on 10/10/2007, -3/+6yes.... and this is their first appeal -- Microsoft knew they were going to lose, like SCO they just wanted to drag it out a bit... not that your old enough to remember that.
/hides -
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