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- Darkhacker, on 08/17/2008, -8/+70Microsoft Office XML (MSOXML)*, is a terrible standard. I'm not saying this out of anti-MS spite, but because there are genuine problems with it. I think a lot of people will trash MSOXML just out of hatred for the company or because they think there is a hidden agenda. Here's the thing though, even if you completely ignore all of the politics, MSOXML is still complete garbage from a technical standpoint. Here is a 75 slide presentation explaining a lot of the details. It is a must read for anyone interested in this debate. http://www.noooxml.org/local--files/arguments/ODF- ...
* I refuse to call it OOXML on the grounds that this name is confusing and misleading. - eridius, on 08/18/2008, -10/+42This is absolutely appalling. It's discouraging to see how much influence a large company like Microsoft can have over a supposedly-independent entity like ISO.
- FolkTheory, on 08/18/2008, -9/+39wow. they're totally corrupt. i still had some faith left in ISO but maaan, they got no shame on being openly corrupt in front of the international public.
- okto, on 08/18/2008, -4/+25Isn't there already an open standard, available on every desktop platform, which replicates the functions of MS Office? Is there a reason not to go with that standard?
ISO, there are some questions we deserve answers to. - Dested, on 08/18/2008, -1/+22Page 24 literally made me laugh out loud in the nerdiest way.
Instead, Ecma 376 often uses unclear names and
inconsistent naming conventions. These include
unnecessary vowel removals, name truncations,
and unusual abbreviations. In VML (5.1.10.45, page 4413)
"outerShdw (Outer Shadow Effect)" has its second word devoid of
vowels. And yet its Child Elements and Attributes
have different naming conventions, e.g. scrgbClr,
algn, blurRad, dir, dist, rotWithShape - mithrasinvictus, on 08/18/2008, -2/+21ODF is an ISO standard for documents. Microsoft doesn't like a level playing field, so it tries to submit its own competing MSOOXML "standard" in a fast track procedure. Because a standard was already established and their new one is full of holes, they have to buy votes and chairmen to get it pushed through. People object because the procedure was clearly flawed, ISO admits that but goes ahead anyway.
- srujanlive, on 08/18/2008, -2/+20Just when you thought Google was going to turn into Microsoft like monopoly... Microsoft does something like this and shows why it and it alone is EVIL. Manipulating standardization bodies. Is there nothing Microsoft would not do? Kudos to India, South Africa, Brazil and even Venezuela for standing up in face of such blatant abuse to standardize a largely inferior format.
- Culyt, on 08/18/2008, -0/+17Yes it is, because if OOXML gets widespread use in such areas as goverment, or bussiness we are locking everyone into a MS monopoly, or further locking them into it anyway... And its perpetual since new versions of the document standard will be produced for newer versions of office supporting new features and so on. Like how everyone will need to buy Office 2007 so they can open those .docx files people keep sending them.
In addition to that, MS can use the technology to attack other areas, for instance getting OOXML documents embedded into websites through Silverlight, requiring people to have Microsoft Office and a Silverlight implementation just to browse the web (there is Moonlight for Linux, but don't be surprised if MS kill that if Silverlight ever gets widespread usage).
☢ - YodaJones, on 08/18/2008, -4/+21A standard is not what the ISO says, it's what the majority USE. Don't use OOXML, instead use OpenDocument and show your unhappiness with their decision.
- Darkhacker, on 08/18/2008, -1/+16ECMA approved the spec in December 2006. It's been published for a while. I'm sure a few issues have been fixed since the presentation was released, but that still leaves mountains of questions unanswered. Firstly, what about all the other technical problems that weren't fixed. Why is the spec that's supposed to be vendor neutral, so heavily focused on MS specific technologies like Office errors, incompatibilities, and even has a Microsoft specific namespace? Why was this totally new standard that's never been used before placed on the fast-track process when it clearly didn't meet the requirements? What about patent issues? This isn't just some minor nit-picking. This standard is a giant *****.
- acid0426, on 08/18/2008, -5/+18I don't think I've seen a more blatant example of going against public opinion. This approval rating shames Bush's.
- Rolcol, on 08/18/2008, -0/+8Looks the same in firefox and in safari to me.
- stretch611, on 08/18/2008, -0/+7Microsoft has influence in the Billions...
- Atomic1fire, on 08/18/2008, -0/+6We need a congress type setup, one with companies and people dealing the standards who care about it can vote, and another were nations vote, and compare the technicality and the most open and feasible method is implemented.
- ronaldmonster, on 08/18/2008, -0/+6Umm, can someone explain to me what is going on?
- Culyt, on 08/18/2008, -0/+6It says:
*****
THE
ISD (I assume its supposed to be ISO but the spacing died)
You need to widen the page (I'm on a 1920x1200, although 1280 should be fine). It actually looks kind of arty when wrapped.
☢ - bobbknight, on 08/18/2008, -2/+8Well Said!
- HonoredMule, on 08/18/2008, -0/+5@Culyt: Well, actually...
http://blog.janik.cz//images/OOXMLSpec.png
Do you think a couple of months would be enough time to thoroughly understand the technical contents of that stack? - DarkShroud, on 08/18/2008, -1/+5I bet it can't shame Nancy's though.
- P1um, on 08/18/2008, -3/+7i don't understand
- neFariou5, on 08/18/2008, -1/+5Yeah right, and when filetypes are saved by default in MS Office ot OOXML what is the general public going to use? The default.. or the filetype 4th down in the list within the "Save As" window?
- Culyt, on 08/18/2008, -1/+5The standard has been released. Even if it wasn't I would assume the people who are approving/critiquing the standard would have seen it (unless its like one of those government documents that get passed without giving the voters the time to read it, like the patriot act).
- motters, on 08/18/2008, -2/+6All of this is really just Microsoft's desperate attempt to cling onto its dominant position in office productivity tools. Even if OOXML does become an ISO standard I think that MS office is going to (and already is to some extent) face serious competition and will no longer be the cash cow that it was in the past.
- igul222, on 08/18/2008, -0/+3I dugg you up for the cool character at the end of your comment.
- Culyt, on 08/18/2008, -0/+3No people will use whatever their default word processor (which will be MS word) does since %85 don't know what a document format or standard is and don't even know they have a choice, another %10 just don't care.
If however the remaining %5 are in places to decide what systems are used then that's all that's needed. And it seems there where enough to get MS to at least give token support for working with ODF documents. Although I wouldn't be surprised if they make their own standards up or don't allow saving in an attempt to wipe out ODF or make it appear inferior.
☢ - kjubik, on 08/18/2008, -1/+4http://www.odfalliance.org/ooxml.php
- inactive, on 08/18/2008, -0/+2ASCII art is cool sometimes..
- Loonacy, on 08/18/2008, -0/+1Groklaw's take on it:
http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=200808151 ... - stretch611, on 08/18/2008, -2/+3Normally I can't stand Ascii art. Oddly, this one appeals to me.
- meinrosebud, on 08/18/2008, -5/+6Now watch Microsoft change its file format because they don't like to share anything... especially profits.
- YodaJones, on 08/18/2008, -1/+2Well you are assuming people are going to be using Microsoft Office. That's a big assumption.
Open Office can do at least 90% of anything Microsoft Office can do, and it's free.
Since you are not the guy in a large enterprise who has to account for the cost of doing business your opinion doesn't count for much. In fact my guess is you are some kid who, if you actually use Microsoft Office for anything more than occasional homework, are probably running a pirated copy anyway. - infiniphunk, on 08/18/2008, -7/+8***** ISO, people will still use .odt if they want. oh, and ***** you Microsoft.
- inactive, on 08/18/2008, -1/+1*****, Ever since I reinstalled all of my fonts ASCII art looks wrong.
I hate having to force the Windows fonts just so this stuff doesn't look like *****. - jacobhill69, on 12/05/2008, -0/+0I agree...
http://www.curemysweatyfeet.com - arcticblue, on 08/18/2008, -1/+1What is that?
RUL
IH+
IS (or maybe Ib)? - misho1721, on 08/18/2008, -4/+3This should not have happened, unfortunately MS will make whatever they want the default in their office suite and force upgrades to make more cash.
- Stonekeeper, on 08/18/2008, -3/+2What we need is some killer tools around ODF. Stuff that massages those bugs and exposes the file format for what it is. I do think that openoffice will be a big contributor to that goal.
- ronaldmonster, on 08/18/2008, -5/+3So this fight is over what format gets to use text documents and pie charts? Wow...serious business.
- natenovs, on 08/18/2008, -6/+3ISO isn't telling people not to use .odt
use what ever the hell you want. oh, and ***** you, fool. - feureau, on 08/18/2008, -5/+2The same kinda fail.
- feureau, on 08/18/2008, -4/+1Can, but won't.
- BertEatsDirt, on 08/18/2008, -6/+1Looks like fail on firefox
- zumpiez, on 08/18/2008, -8/+2I do not like this standard and therefore the ISO must be corrupt for approving it. It's ok, I'm an expert about documents.
- natenovs, on 08/18/2008, -11/+4is someone going to answer Gumboot, or just bury the question?
- Foutrelis, on 08/18/2008, -27/+21███████████ ████ ████ ██████████ ████ ███
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███████████ ███████████████ ██████████████████████ - 6minuteabs, on 08/18/2008, -9/+2Reminds me of the worst part of A Few Good Men-
I object.
Objection denied.
Well then I strongly object.
Oh, well ok then. - Gumboot, on 08/18/2008, -10/+2From the article: "The ISO has revealed that official publication of Microsoft's Office Open XML (OOXML) standard will proceed...". That kinda implies it hasn't been published yet... at least not officially.
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