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69 Comments
- Topher06, on 11/24/2008, -25/+81I think any company saying Microsoft doesn't make good products for enterprise servers is just trying to be sensational or exposing their irrational bias against Microsoft. Microsoft's bread and butter hasn't been making workstation OS'es but their business software including server software and office products, and I just have to laugh when people claim these products are not good. The only valid comment people can make against Microsoft enterprise solutions is their up-front exepense, but I clearly believe you get what you pay for. I'd rather a product I paid for that works well after a little configuration rather then a free product I have to pay the same (if not more) for support to get configured properly. Sure, as in all cases, there are many who have had problems with implementing Microsoft solutions, just as much as there are people who have claimed installing 'nix based solutions was straight-forward and easy, but lets not deny the fact that Microsoft can make decent enterprise solutions which do actually run a large part of the Internet and many corporations, its just juvenile to believe otherwise.
- CCB0x45, on 11/26/2008, -14/+31Wrong, IE always sucks. ***** that peice of *****.
- DetpackJump, on 11/26/2008, -0/+15Ina used to be Ian
- imasuperDOTcom, on 11/24/2008, -8/+22Note: The article is about MS running services FOR you, not about MS products running themselves. Read the article.
- AcidBurnz, on 11/26/2008, -4/+16Wtf is up with the author of that article:
"During her years at CNET News, Ina Fried has changed beats several times, changed genders once, and covered both of the Pirates of Silicon Valley. These days, most of her attention is focused on Microsoft. E-mail Ina." - Mackofalltrades, on 11/26/2008, -0/+12@alclone seriously. How does one post a comment that makes themselves look extremely retarded with only 3 short sentences. This isn't ***** youtube.
- TMTurtle, on 11/26/2008, -1/+12Are you just going to copy/paste this into any article that seems tangentially relevant?
- CaptHuggyFace, on 11/26/2008, -1/+12I work for HP's Outsourcing Services division (now "EDS, an HP Company"), and Energizer is one of my accounts. They are transitioning large chunks of their IT environment to our data centers, and I'm not sure if it's cost or quality of service, but something is causing them to make the switch. The article is a little misleading in that it paints the picture that Microsoft is running all of Energizer's outsourcing and hosting needs when I know that HP, IBM, and MS are all sharing significant pieces of that pie.
- Brassbud, on 11/26/2008, -6/+15Windows XP: It keeps going and going and...
- AboveandBeyond, on 11/26/2008, -6/+14Apple makes glossy expensive and overhyped stuff....
- whasupjohn, on 11/26/2008, -1/+8The real problem is that in order to put new product on the shelves, Microsoft has to put out products even if they are ready or not. After the first or second service pack, the OSes seem to deliver what people need / want. The other problem is bloat, so many different options and most users won't use more then 30% of them. I say use the proper tool for the job. As for databases and hard hitting stuff, I'll use *nix any day. I'll user NetApps for file servers and I prefer NFS file shares over CIFS. The Microsoft problem is their ridiculous pricing and incompatibilities. People will bash them for it, but I would believe that 60%+ errors are do to bad device drivers. They are also horrible on regression testing and patch timelyness for security issues. Choose what works for you. Oh, and all the problems I outlined can be applied to any OS -- it just turns out MS is the biggest and their pricing models usually suck.
- sfacets, on 11/26/2008, -2/+9I'm sure Microsoft are the ONLY people who can run their own products successfully, which is why they always appear amazed by the public reaction.
- AboveandBeyond, on 11/26/2008, -5/+12IE was the first browser ever to use AJAX back in 1998... you know..back when mozilla developers were still babies and google was called backrub..
- robotfriendly, on 11/26/2008, -0/+6I thought I was having deja vu...
- stinkypyper, on 11/26/2008, -3/+9"but lets not deny the fact that Microsoft can make decent enterprise solutions which do actually run a large part of the Internet and many corporations, its just juvenile to believe otherwise."
The part that is juvenile is when fan boys from either side assume that any company is the be all and end all of any market. Plenty of room for competition I say, but maybe some people like getting their enterprise OS's from the same company that makes their game console. The problem arises when no one ever climbs the fence and looks on the other side. I have met many Microsoft techies who has never even used a non Microsoft operating system; however, every *nix techie I ever met has used a wide variety of OS's, including Microsoft's. You need to be critical about what technology you use and not put your faith into thousands of dollars of certifications you wasted your money on.
That said, the comment I am replying too seems to be very bias. It has received a high number of Diggs for a very poor argument. All valid counter arguments to the article and this comment are being voted down for no valid reason. This article and this comment are clearly a plant, and a very poor one at that. Who on Digg really gives a ***** about what technology platform a battery company uses. IT is not their primary focus, so their needs are very minor, hence a bad example to use in an article of this nature to being with.
We all know about Microsoft's and Digg's relationship. Buried. - Brassbud, on 11/26/2008, -3/+9I was referring to Microsoft's inability to get people to switch to Vista, actually.
- directrix13, on 11/26/2008, -1/+7Microsoft works just fine for server OSes. I would say your ease of configuration + you get what you pay for crap is a load though. With Linux you are able to copy a set of config files (or even the entire system) between computers as easy as any other file. And cloning a machine is easy and essentially just works on most hardware without having to touch a driver disk or config file. I know of people considering virtualizing their Windows servers just to get that kind of easy fail-over functionality. Not to say virtualization is bad by any means (in his case it is pretty necessary), but if you need every last ounce of performance it gives you that much less to work with. Also, with proprietary OSes I really hate having to attain a license for each piece of software, each server, each user, each processor.... what a bunch of *****, and having to manage software updates individually for each piece of software.... what a waste of time. There are a couple instances where Microsoft works slightly better for instance LDAP is easier with Active Directory, and fairly easily controlling a bunch of Windows workstations pretty much requires a Windows server. So, I guess there are a couple instances where it can make sense.
- smotpoker, on 11/26/2008, -1/+7"People will bash them for it, but I would believe that 60%+ errors are do to bad device drivers"
I've seen several hardware guys assert that MS provided bad specs/documentation regarding their driver API and that the API itself was buggy as reason why Vista drivers were so crappy at launch (which is mostly cleared up by now I've heard). Of course, MS says it's the driver developers' fault for making bad drivers.
They both have motive to point the finger at each other but given MS's history and how the vendor-provided drivers mostly suddenly started developing drivers properly after they got revised specs and in some cases unmodified drivers started working right, I tend to believe the driver developers' scenario. - akiratheoni, on 11/26/2008, -3/+8So, people have different preference and different needs. What's the big deal?
- Tenoq, on 11/26/2008, -3/+8AboveandBeyond -
And their AJAX implementation still doesn't work properly. :p - Thorpe, on 11/26/2008, -1/+5Yeah, they'd say that since Microsoft generates them a good amount of money through using their batteries in products (wireless controllers, keyboards/mice, Xbox 360 peripherals...).
- gabbagabba, on 11/26/2008, -3/+7Who cares?
- tnoy, on 11/26/2008, -3/+7Complex enough to keep 16,410 people working.
- whasupjohn, on 11/26/2008, -1/+5And I would not put a machine on the net (public facing) without a specific security appliance or machine for any number of machines. Using the proper firewall rules, I think a large proportion of all improper accesses are due to machines too widely opened. I would take away the need for the machine to process any of the packets it didn't need to. As a DC director, we take this to the next level that we use Peakflow at our core and provide ACL based firewalls (again, on our cores) to eliminate unnecessary traffic. The Peakflow helps to analyze traffic and built on the fly ACLs to thwart all sorts of attacks. This also keeps out zombie scanning machines. There is no excuse for proper security practices not being employed for any IT enterprise.
- wilbur31337, on 11/26/2008, -0/+3Of course, Kalo! Anyone objective, who has familiarity with BOTH products, would have to agree. Who cares what kind of Diggs they get for a comment; reality never fails to exist merely because people fail to acknowledge it. :)
- benologist, on 11/26/2008, -0/+3http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Fried_(writer)
- nemoder, on 11/26/2008, -1/+4So THATS why their batteries are so expenisve now, always wondered.
- inactive, on 11/26/2008, -1/+4Cool. Care to elaborate what makes Linux more secure than Windows when properly configured?
Is it the lack of granular policy? The unrestricted root account (Sorry, even local admins in Windows can be restricted entirely)? Lack of proper delegation for essential services (Hell, even XP Home does that out of the box)?
I'm not one to say Linux is an insecure *****, but most people who make claims on the security of Windows are generally idiots that read CNET. - inactive, on 11/26/2008, -0/+3"Prior to June 2003, Fried transitioned from male to female and changed the associated byline to "Ina Fried."
- kaod, on 11/26/2008, -7/+10okay. but honestly, how complex are enegerizers IT requirements?
you'll notice any company using software as a service run a LAMP stack. - bipolarruledout, on 11/26/2008, -0/+3Frankly ease of use cuts both ways and there are endless amounts of ways to mis-configure Microsoft's enterprise products. Active directory for example is extremely powerful and if you don't know how to use it your not going to get much benifit from the platform and your probably going to have a lot of headaches.
- thenativeraver, on 11/26/2008, -0/+3http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/i/bn/mugs/blog_ina_frie ...
That is most certainly a man. - scamper22, on 11/26/2008, -0/+3yes, they will pit you all against each other to make sure none of you is too comfortable.
- tnoy, on 11/26/2008, -8/+11.. from blue screen to blue screen...
- inactive, on 11/26/2008, -6/+8The majority of companies who use *any* amount of *nix servers will buy the extra support.
UNIX, on its own, costs a little more than $rape.50 to license and operate. Same - in some cases - with BSD.
Linux *can* be free to use, but then you look at operational costs. Linux admins generally make more money, then you look at user training and support costs, then you look at the severe lack of development and enterprise management for those systems (Sorry, no bias here, but Microsoft wipes the floor with their centralized management capabilities).
I love Linux, but it is not the perfectly free, wonderful solution everyone thinks it is.
Looking at the security aspect, I would put a properly configured Windows Server right up there against any *nix server without thought. The truth is with modern systems that your own employees pose more of a threat than the "hacker" outside, which is where proper management comes into play. - renegadeafk, on 11/26/2008, -1/+3MY EYES
- fatdog789, on 11/26/2008, -5/+7Are you really asking how complicated the IT requirements are for a Fortune 250 company, with thousands of employees, which is engaged in multinational R&D, litigation, manufacturing, and sales?
Really?
Sure, you can run that using LAMP, but configuration time alone would easily take months to get a system working...and that assumes that you're willing to pay people who are trained in LAMP systems running at that scale.
A Dreamhost page LAMP requriements != multinational corporation IT needs. Not even close. - sockpuppets, on 11/26/2008, -0/+2Androgyny shields activated!
http://www.metroweekly.com/articles/attachments/20 ...
http://digg.com/microsoft/Microsoft_launches_Windo ... - CaptHuggyFace, on 11/26/2008, -1/+3Still looks like an Ian to me...
- Aurabolt, on 11/26/2008, -4/+6There needs to be more Diggers like you, Topher06. Intelligent response with evidence and reasons to back it up. Ladies and gentlemen, we need to get this person a cookie.
- SubjectiveC, on 11/26/2008, -1/+3I don't think they did that good of a job. Look at the picture. :
- silentbutstudly, on 11/26/2008, -2/+4And they're still going?
- Phasmorphage, on 11/26/2008, -0/+2People are people so why should it be right?
- bipolarruledout, on 11/26/2008, -0/+2I think it might be some of both.... particularly in the multimedia area where certain specs have been required for certification. But you also can't argue that quality drivers are essential for a secure and stable OS; I can't fault them for demanding good code. In the NT days bad drivers were the fault of most non-hardware related stop errors and it does negatively impact Microsoft's reputation.
- inactive, on 11/26/2008, -1/+3@JonForTheWin
What? - onovanday, on 11/26/2008, -1/+3yep. finally got my first 360 last week. controllers all came with energizers.
- Repeater2000, on 11/26/2008, -2/+4Server 2008 = Awesome
Exchange 2007 = Double Awesome - DuMbGuM, on 11/26/2008, -0/+2Wow, tnoy, you get the award for most predictable comment ever..
I switched to Vista a long time ago, works fine, and I prefer it over my Mac system.
Now using Win7 Beta and even more impressed. - mrBitch, on 11/26/2008, -0/+2@scamper, WTF ?
@CaptHuggyFace RE: " I work for HP's Outsourcing Services division (now "EDS, an HP Company"), and Energizer is one of my accounts.
They are transitioning large chunks of their IT environment to our data centers, and I'm not sure if it's cost or quality of service, but something is causing them to make the switch. "
Energizer are SWITCHING ? ? ? ? - JonForTheWin, on 11/26/2008, -1/+3Wrong, ASP always sucks, ***** that piece of *****.
"Tool for the job", please. "I recommend proprietary garbage because in some cases it's the tool for the job", ***** fail. -
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