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Valve Source Engine to hit Linux soon...?

blog.sillica.com — This has probably been dugg before, but I've made a few unique observations in my article that I haven't seen anywhere else (namely the orangebox ps3 port). Enjoy. :)

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  • Sammi84, on 05/30/2008, -25/+433Willing paying customer right here.

    Digg if you are too.
    • AlaskaLoneWolf, on 05/31/2008, -1/+29...that'll get some Diggs for sure.
    • TheGreatBelow, on 05/31/2008, -53/+3Assuming that you'd have to not pay FTL.

      Cheap ass linux users...
      • plr4ever, on 05/31/2008, -2/+26Dumb ass proprietary software users...
      • ninja0, on 05/31/2008, -1/+13You are stupid. Why would I pay for something that is bloated and breaks in a matter of a month or 2 when I can have a perfectly stable running linux install for way greater lengths of time?
        Actually, truth be told, if you're not a moron linux will run fast and stable indefinitely... I do consider myself a power user and I use windows and linux every day, you can't tell me linux is worse.

        So let me get this straight, you are saying im cheap because I dont want to pay for garbage? Linux is a win win.

        • GawtMilk, on 06/01/2008, -0/+2I think what's he's saying is that if there was more investment capital, the products might be better. It's evident that Valve, a company with stockholder's interests in mind, is not going to 'sell' games on Linux unless money is involved.
    • DyceFreak, on 05/31/2008, -16/+10I digg because im a willing paying customer...

      using windows...
    • ninja0, on 05/31/2008, -8/+21Dugg. I don't even play on steam anymore because windows sucks. Sorry fanboys, its true. You need all this bloated crap like antivirus and ***** to keep your system secure and clean, which slows that ***** down. Linux is wicked sick, and if it were ported I would use steam again. No doubt about it, and I would buy more games. Not a word of a lie.
      • DyceFreak, on 05/31/2008, -17/+3I prefer the simplicity of windows... large groups of trusted developers instead of college kids a part of some "community"
        • Xanium4332, on 05/31/2008, -2/+9'groups' of developers, yet half the time companies are just trying to out do the competition.

          Reinventing the wheel 20 times is not the way forward...
        • DyceFreak, on 05/31/2008, -3/+1horrible generalization, companies are trying to make money, putting their lives on the line for software, groups such as trendmicro, as opposed to these linux junkies with a ton of freetime doing charity work for the assend of the computer business. Its funny how you linux people now consider internet forums, "Documentation".
        • Giga, on 06/01/2008, -0/+3The same "trusted developers" that write viruses for Windows but not other platforms? Sure, I'd pick them any day. For really big software projects (such as Valve's Source Engine) I'm happy to pay money to a proprietary company, but it pisses me off that every little application that makes using Windows easier (UltraMon for example) cost money and there isn't much active development going into these one-man projects. I'd rather have the source code open in a lot of these applications so we know for a fact there is nothing malicious in them and they can be altered if the original developer moves on to something else.

          Also, are you suggesting that college kids don't count as part of a community? Shame on you.
        • nmnnotmyname, on 06/01/2008, -0/+5Trusted Developers my ass. I don't trust MS developers to do anything but ruin all of the decent programs with .NET fluff so the n00bs are under the impression it is somehow more useful than any other program with probably more capability.
        • DyceFreak, on 06/02/2008, -1/+1@Giga, you know open source goes same for windows too right?

          @nmnno, yea no one trust microsoft, but there are a ton of companies that are doing a damn good job at developing software. Thats why you just have to take XP and run with it, and download the good software like everyone else..

          and to boot, microsoft has been updating the same operating system for 7 years! lets see linux do THAT!
        • srg13, on 06/03/2008, -0/+1"and to boot, microsoft has been updating the same operating system for 7 years! lets see linux do THAT!"

          It's actually been a lot longer than that - it's practically just Windows 2000 with a different theme.

          But I wouldn't call that a good thing..
      • SolitarySoviet, on 05/31/2008, -16/+4pull your head out of your ass, I use windows, no antivirus ever and have never got a virus because Im not a dumb ass and click on everything I see, and furthermore my server 2003 box blows away ubuntu speed wise on the same hardware with no extra config, even more so once its tuned for my uses... your the fanboy... anything linux makes you wet and blind to the truth... hell you didnt even mention what flavor linux... Ive used a lot of real ***** distros so just because its linux doesn't mean *****,,,, I use both OS's DAILY and windows server is much better...IN MY OPINION... which is what you should really take from this... your opinion matters as much as mine NOT AT ALL... so save your linux finger pointing fanboy ***** for all those 12 year olds you try and look cool to and try to not turn anything mentioning linux into a pointless flame war... its really old and we have all seen every argument ever already...

        oh and I ***** DARE you to download a copy of Server 2003 R2 and try it out.... you may just find out you didnt know ***** and surprisingly (sarcasm) find out that all that money and dev time microsoft puts in doesnt just dissapear and leave a product that doesn't fill its purpose... seriously linux isnt magic folks, and windows devs didnt fill it with bloat just to show they hate you... check out both sides of the fence before you pass judgment.. and stop trying to look cool because you ***** FAIL...
        • nmnnotmyname, on 06/01/2008, -1/+1"DARE you to download a copy of Server 2003 R2 and try it out.."

          Illegal, so "you ***** FAIL..."

          Plus, If you don't have antivirus you have small virii and annoyances. Trust me. I have a winbox right here that still gets virii with antivirus. It's just a simple setup, Win XP up to date, and occasionally while getting my software i get more. >_> I told people it didn't have any virii but when I checked it was ***** full - I just never noticed.

          Firefox really does help for getting virii out because there are far less security flaws.
        • srg13, on 06/02/2008, -1/+2", I use windows, no antivirus ever and have never got a virus"

          You are such an idiot - I can gaurantee that if you scanned your computer with a virus scanner, you would definitely have malware on your computer - since you don't though, you have no way of knowing...
        • SolitarySoviet, on 06/14/2008, -1/+1uhh no your the idiot because you think that malware and viruses come from nowhere... you have to do something to get them... and if you dont do anything stupid you DONT... and I ran avg and guess what.... nothing... so shut the ***** up..
      • sexybobo, on 06/01/2008, -1/+4Steam works fine under wine. So does all the source games I have tried.
    • scy1192, on 05/31/2008, -13/+4wait, a Linux user *buying* something?
      • DyceFreak, on 05/31/2008, -1/+21NEWS FLASH

        THERE IS BUSINESS IN OPEN SOURCE
      • patm1987, on 05/31/2008, -0/+11Hey, I bought Cedega. In fact, I bought Cedega to play source engine games and run Steam on Linux. It turns out that launching CS:S from a terminal turns heads at lan parties (although sometimes configuring the network under Gentoo delayed my ability to play quite a bit and happens to inspire many Linux can't play games jokes).
        • tech42er, on 05/31/2008, -0/+3Steam really works with Cedega? I thought it was hit-or-mis and while I don't mind dicking around with stuff that might work, I don't like paying for it.
        • nmnnotmyname, on 06/01/2008, -0/+2Wine works pwnsome with steam ;) So screw Cedega. Well, for me. It's faster anyways (most of the time, sometimes I have to screw with shader details in games)
        • srg13, on 06/02/2008, -0/+2Cedega has fallen behind Wine quite a while ago. Steam (and most Source based games) works great on Wine.
      • Xanium4332, on 05/31/2008, -1/+13Not everyone uses linux just because it's free, it's actually better (in my opinion).
        • SolitarySoviet, on 05/31/2008, -1/+1dugg for use of word opinion... I wish there were more of your types around
        • sethorama99, on 06/01/2008, -0/+5This is true. Initially I put it on my computer until I got some money for XP, but 6 months later I don't really see the point.
      • SolitarySoviet, on 05/31/2008, -2/+2***** I would say the same about a windows user.... I dont buy *****.. if it can be downloaded then I do it... I have much better tangible things to spend my money on...
        there was no way from the start any of them were going to get my money so no money lost on either parties side and besides
        software costs TOO DAMN MUCH anyways... companies should sell it for less and make it up in volume...
        Id wager 5 people are more likely to each buy a $10 program then 1 buying a $50 program, same amount of money but now you have 5 times the customer base, (repeat sales, free advertising, etc.) Im sure as ***** not going to pay 400 dollars for photoshop but I would consider $40, greed hurts sales..

        oh and since its pertinent to the conversation

        cs.rin.ru check forums...

        free steam software bitches!!!!
        • DyceFreak, on 05/31/2008, -0/+2pay for software is really just a way to stick penis' into business asses, as all of them have to legally pay for and manage ***** liscensing schemes and so forth, which actually gets checked by the bigman every once and a while... crazy ammount of money just floating away for something intangible.
        • Giga, on 06/01/2008, -0/+1While I agree that often lowering the price and aiming for volume works for commodity stuff (such as office or gaming software), it isn't generally a good way to go in a niche market. Let's say there are only 500 people who actually have a use for your software. You sell it at $1000, and 50 people buy it. Dropping the price to $100 and expecting all 500 to buy it is a tad optimistic. Drop it further, and you are guaranteeing that you won't make as much as selling to the original 50 at $1000.
      • init100, on 06/01/2008, -0/+2Are you claiming that Windows users buy more software than Linux users? To me, it seems like Windows users are just as fond of not paying for software as Linux users, with the difference that Windows users usually pirate commercial software while Linux users use free alternatives.
    • ZachSka87, on 05/31/2008, -5/+2This + Blizzard Entertainment making native linux games = Goodbye Micro$hit.
      • CarzorStelatis, on 06/01/2008, -0/+1What about THQ's strategy games? Company of Heroes is unplayable under Wine (even their own infamously over-optimistic Application Ratings admit this) and I doubt Dawn of War is any better given that the engines are similar.
    • mif86, on 05/31/2008, -2/+8Let's just hope they develop native OpenGL renderers for the games, not just emulating it through wine/cedega with d3d-calls. Or else it will probably not be any different from playing Windows Steam through wine, performance-wise...
      • Loonacy, on 06/01/2008, -0/+5I highly doubt the PS3 port used d3d calls. But I could be wrong.
        • CarzorStelatis, on 06/01/2008, -0/+6The article suggests that the PS3 port might have used a modded Cedega to convert its own D3D calls to OpenGL calls for the PS3. Might explain some of the performance glitches in the PS3 version, and the fact that it was done by EA rather than Valve themselves (EA have previously used Cedega on console ports of PC games).
    • thomasprebble, on 06/01/2008, -1/+5I switched to Linux some month ago. I have a Steam account but don't use it and I've had problems with WINE. Get it working Valve and I might just buy a few more games off you!
  • Kingoftherings, on 05/30/2008, -5/+96I'd love to see Steam on Linux, it'd make installing games already on Linux so much easier, and it should work on all distros just the same.
    It'd also be really nice to play TF2, HL2 and mods on Linux.

    Another thing too, with Valve's Steamworks, which allows small developers easily make a game with Source, if they extended support to Linux, then those small developers could easily release their game for all major platforms.
    • Modiga, on 05/31/2008, -0/+3Steamworks doesn't have much to do with the Source engine. Steamworks is a way for third party devs to easily put their game on Steam, regardless of engine. Of course, there's nothing saying (well except licensing) that the third party dev can't make their game using the Source Engine and to add it to Steam with Steamworks.
    • sarixe, on 05/31/2008, -0/+1If they came up with a way to integrate that with already-existing package managers like apt, rpm, yum, then it would be even better :D
      • CarzorStelatis, on 06/01/2008, -0/+2Don't see why they couldn't set up their own repositories to do that, since they already allow 'pre-loading' of a lot of games before you even buy them. Something like 'sudo apt-get install steam-ut3', followed by running Steam to decrypt the download?
    • deathyepl, on 05/31/2008, -3/+1Considering penetration, and as much as we might hate for it to be true, they already can release Source games for all major platforms, that being 1 platform. However, if you were to change that to be "all major and minor platforms," then it would probably mean what you intended for it to mean.
    • Axmar, on 06/01/2008, -2/+0like mac
    • naz37, on 06/01/2008, -0/+3Steam and Source games already work on linux via wine. I have all the orange box games(HL2, TF2, ect) running on my gentoo box and they look and run perfectly.
    • bdbElysian, on 06/05/2008, -0/+2Day of Defeat!
  • Mejogid, on 05/31/2008, -9/+4I'm a bit sceptical about your fourth point - the port was done entirely by EA, with Valve having virtually no influence over it, and it was developed on EA's initiative, not Valve's. You can be pretty sure they won't have used API translation, since a graphically intensive game such as an FPS on a memory-bound platform such as the PS3 can't spare that overhead. This would probably make it to port assuming Valve could gain access to the code, it's not the logical progression you suggest.
    • therightclique, on 05/31/2008, -1/+1I wanted to agree with you, but then you stopped making sense. try to form coherent thoughts before posting and proof-read.
    • stargatesteve, on 05/31/2008, -2/+2the point that was being made was that EA would wait for steam to be ported, and then use it as a distribution method. Can't you just see them trying to get UT3 into walmart?
      EA: We want to sell this Linux game...
      WM: Wait, Linux?
      EA: Yes, Linux - it's an OS...
      WM: OS?
      EA: NVM.
    • Induane, on 05/31/2008, -1/+2Also remember that api translation doesn't necessarily always have a performance penalty. There are some apps that perform better on linux under wine than when running natively on windows.
      • linuxpenguin, on 06/01/2008, -0/+1This is a PS3, not Linux per se. I doubt they expect people to install Linux before playing UT3 on their PS3.
        Not saying that what you said wouldn't also apply, but I don't think any PS3 API translators have anywhere near the maturity of WINE, unless WINE itself has been ported to the PS3's native OS.
  • neko, on 05/31/2008, -3/+69I wouldn't get your hopes up, but dugg anyway.

    Oblivion was ported to the PS3, implying they converted the renderer to OpenGL, and this would make performance on Wine much much better, but they haven't bothered to add this as a patch to the Windows binary. All I'm asking for is an -opengl command line option. But from their point of view, there's no point assigning developer time to it.

    And yes, I already have Steam and the Orange Box, and I play it on Ubuntu. So while they wouldn't be getting a new customer for a native HL2 Linux port, I'm an existing Steam customer who would have more incentive to buy a new Source based game if I knew it would run natively.
    • DyceFreak, on 05/31/2008, -8/+2you seriously think oblivion was ported to OpenGL? that would take millions of man hours.
      • SolitarySoviet, on 05/31/2008, -4/+3what are you saying the PS3 has DirectX 9 on it??? no ***** way.... I dont know for sure but I would say they would have to use OGL if they wanted to port it... so I dont really see what you are saying is wrong with neko's post....

        oh wait... "that would take millions of man hours."
        I SEE your just retarded.... not your fault I guess, probably born that way (damn crack whore mothers...) but if you really think it would take that long when the WHOLE ***** GAME didn't take that long to code..

        lets assume your plural "millions" only means 2, because any more than that would be even MORE ridiculous (hard to imagine)

        2000000 / 24hrs = 83333 and 1/3 days...

        divide that by how many days in a year and you have

        228 and 1/3 years.... hmmmm see where the problem is?
        you would either have to have a ***** TON of developers working around the clock for quite some time JUST TO PORT existing graphics, OR you just don't know ***** about *****... I'm going with the latter...
        • DyceFreak, on 05/31/2008, -3/+3way to spend half your post picking a part my exageration.

          My point is PS3 doesn't use standard OpenGL... its uses its own subset of it that wouldn't be immediately float able to other systems. So Oblivion on PS3, does not mean its going to be an easy linux conversion just because the words OpenGL are there. Which was all in response to that original post.

          I bury you for flamebait... more than half your worthless post was picking a part an obvious exaggeration.
    • tech42er, on 05/31/2008, -0/+2You're running it with wine?
      • gavintlgold, on 05/31/2008, -0/+3Yes, it works, Directx 9 support is not perfect yet, but 8 works perfectly as far as I can see.
  • n0odles, on 05/31/2008, -10/+52I have source, but will pay again just for Linux.
    • duckyinc, on 05/31/2008, -13/+6I hope you aren't the general linux user..
    • GutterMoo, on 05/31/2008, -2/+47I hope you understand that once you pay, give your e-mail, you don't have to pay for the same games over again. Steam keeps a database of everything you've bought through it. Can redownload the games whenever you want.
      • stargatesteve, on 05/31/2008, -5/+3what noodles is saying is that he hopes valve won't make you pay for the linux as well as the windows version.
      • secleinteer, on 05/31/2008, -0/+11No, his point is that he wants the native Linux version so much that he _would_ pay again if he had to.
      • SolidSnak, on 06/01/2008, -0/+3I would still pay again if I had to
    • Vasto, on 05/31/2008, -1/+9The great thing about steam is that you don't need to pay multiple times for the copy of the game. It is all tied to your user account. All it would entail is downloading the linux steam client and logging in.
    • counterplex, on 05/31/2008, -0/+10I think what he means is that he'd pay again for a Linux client for the games (assuming the linux client isn't a free addon for those who've bought the windows games)
    • therightclique, on 05/31/2008, -6/+1what you said means nothing and people still dugg you. what do you mean by "I have source"? The Source Engine is a piece of technology, not a specific title. Try harder.
    • pHr34kY, on 05/31/2008, -0/+2Just as a guess, you'd download it for free, but use the same activation code as your Windows version. I wouldn't expect anyone to pay twice for it.
  • Azalyn, on 05/31/2008, -3/+22Mejogid: First of all it was the second point... Second of all, EA could not have just done the port on their "initiative" because Valve owns all of the intellectual property associated with the Source Engine and the various games in the Orange Box. EA would either have been contracted by Valve for the port (likely), or EA would have *asked* Valve to do the port, and Valve would have licensed the properties to them for that version alone. In either case, Valve getting the OpenGL backend that EA developed would be a logical extension of their agreements, as it would be beneficial to both parties (EA *is* after all Valve's chosen publisher for the PC). EA gains nothing whatsoever by keeping the backend from Valve. Companies like to make money, not to waste it, and keeping code like that private would be a waste of both their time.

    Furthermore, the Postal III point is another crucial one here, it is really unlikely that the Postal III developers are just writing the entire game *and* the OpenGL rendering backend all on their own. It just doesn't make sense, and there is no precedent for something like that.

    And lastly, API translation was feasible even on the PS2, I already mentioned they used a derivative of Wine for the PS2 port of The Sims. You may not be aware of this but Wine does not *have* to add any significant overhead. These days many apps run in Wine with nearly the same performance as in Windows, this is because it is *NOT* an emulator, but rather a *reimplementation* of the Windows core system API libraries. It is equivalent to rewriting Windows from scratch, or at the very least every library necessary to run the vast majority of Windows applications. Of course, this is also why it has taken them well over 10 years to get this far. ;)
    • cubed2d, on 05/31/2008, -1/+2"Furthermore, the Postal III point is another crucial one here, it is really unlikely that the Postal III developers are just writing the entire game *and* the OpenGL rendering back end all on their own. It just doesn't make sense, and there is no precedent for something like that."

      just would like to point out, if you license a game engine, you get its code.the rs no reason why you can swap out the renderer for a new one, for example, torque 360 works with directx of course, some developers of live arcade games have launched there games on ps3 as well, the ported torque360 renderer to open gl and the rest of the code for that, so its not like theres no precedent
  • Sillywombat, on 05/31/2008, -0/+32Yep, just got an orange box a couple of days ago. I have a dual-boot with ubuntu and windows simply so i could play it. If valve/steam get round to doing this, i could remove windows completely!
    • mossblaser, on 05/31/2008, -1/+7The orange box actually runs very very well on linux - simply copy the DVDs into a folder and install tahoma and the IE stand in for wine and you're away! The games run prettey well too, though for the top graphics you will need windows but the games are very playable on linux.
      • Frostek, on 05/31/2008, -0/+3I thought the Tahoma and IE stuff was included with Wine now?

        Ah wait - I just checked and Wine 0.9.47 onwards includes a replacement font for Tahoma.
      • tech42er, on 05/31/2008, -0/+2They are? Oh wow. I'd basiclly given up on wine last year. I'll have to take another look.
        • mossblaser, on 06/05/2008, -0/+2This year has been an epic one for wine's development - just recently it has come on so far!
    • kidko, on 05/31/2008, -0/+2You just described my computer. Maybe I could get rid of Windows one of these days.... Or I'll try Wine.
  • CalcProgrammer1, on 05/31/2008, -3/+13It would be nice if they let people who already owned The Orange Box PC (Windows) to get the Linux versions for free. I already bought OB for Windows and would like a Linux version, but not so much as to pay for the whole game again. Anyways, Source runs good in Wine as it is.
    • CarzorStelatis, on 06/01/2008, -0/+1I suspect they would - for example people who bought CS:S or HL2 got the Orange Box updated version of the Source engine for free. So I suspect that if Valve DID release a Linux port of the Source engine, you'd probably be able to use all your Source games without re-paying. Apart from anything else, it would encourage people to buy more of their future Source games.
  • JerzyBricklayr, on 05/31/2008, -33/+27***** Windows!
    • coollettuce, on 05/31/2008, -16/+8***** fanboys!
    • Asidic, on 05/31/2008, -13/+9Fanboyism - I laughs at it.
      • supermanred, on 05/31/2008, -6/+2Fanboyism sounds about right. Microsoft fanboyism that is. Only a fanboy would LOVE an OS that is so bloated, slows your system down and is the cause of probably 75% of all gaming CRASHES in WIndows.

        Seriously, Linux has so little overhead and leaves so much more system resources for gaming.
        • MattBD, on 05/31/2008, -2/+2That's why I think that Linux could potentially be a better OS for gamers than Windows, even with things like DirectX to cope with.
        • victorc26, on 05/31/2008, -2/+9@supermanred:

          And you're not showing your fanboyism towards Linux?

          If you keep repeating another OS is inferior to the OS you use. Guess what that makes you?

          Every OS has it's pluses, and every OS has it's negatives. No OS is technically better than another. The Pluses of one OS are the negatives of another, and vice versa.

          Linux has tons of pluses and tons of negatives, OSX has tons of pluses and tons of negatives, Windows has tons of pluses and tons of negatives. No OS is perfect.
    • tHeSiD, on 05/31/2008, -10/+2***** you
    • seqizz, on 05/31/2008, -9/+1***** who says "*****"..
  • username484767, on 05/31/2008, -4/+8Great!
  • gplpark92, on 05/31/2008, -15/+69Down with DirectX!
    • sjmulder, on 06/01/2008, -8/+2Microsoft doesn't see Linux as a thread. Unix is the enemy.
      Linux is the enemy. Linux has always been the enemy.

      I love DirectX
      • 1timeuser, on 06/01/2008, -0/+6As a linux user... Direct X is about the only cool thing MS has ever done (for themselves).
      • 1timeuser, on 06/01/2008, -0/+2Actually scratch (for themselves). It's the only cool thing they've ever done.
  • LunaticFringe, on 05/31/2008, -3/+25Just to see Microsoft's computer gaming monopoly destroyed, I'd really like to see more developers using OpenGL instead of Direct3d. For one, it gives them coverage of Windows, Linux, and theoretically OS X (I heard Apple had issues with corporately supporting OpenGL on their operating systems) instead of just leaving it in Microsoft's ballpark with Direct3d. Yes, I know you can run third party software on Linux and OS X to run Direct3d based games, but imagine just being able to /play/ the games without those steps being necessary.
    • init100, on 05/31/2008, -1/+16"and theoretically OS X (I heard Apple had issues with corporately supporting OpenGL on their operating systems)"

      What are you talking about? OpenGL works perfectly on Mac OS X.
    • Kingoftherings, on 05/31/2008, -3/+3Actually if developers use DirectX, they can easily port to 360, so there is kind of a reason to use it instead of OpenGL.
      But, I would like to see more OpenGL games.
      • zwaldowski, on 05/31/2008, -0/+4Ah, but GL is implemented in some way or another on all other systems, so...
      • linuxpenguin, on 06/01/2008, -0/+5But that's it. All other systems have no DirectX implementation - whereas all systems have some sort of OpenGL implementation. So using only OpenGL would make it easier to port to *any* other system, whereas DirectX limits which systems you can port to (without using some sort of wrapper or API translator).
  • duckyinc, on 05/31/2008, -1/+5This is old news like the blogger said so I suggest you guys wait another year for this..
    • stargatesteve, on 05/31/2008, -0/+2or more. remember, this _is_ valveTime we're talking about.
  • Morghin, on 05/31/2008, -1/+15If this is true, Linux might suddenly emerge as a superior gaming platform, or just over time (though hope spurs me to wish for the first :P). With game-developers behind the drivers and whatnot in addition to being open source, there's not a whole lot of limits to the performance that can be squeezed out of it.
    • therightclique, on 05/31/2008, -16/+1jesus christ. what a load of *****. how could you possibly think that could EVER happen? linux stuff will NEVER be fully supported by the mainstream, so even if you get a few products here and there, they won't be supported like the PC versions. Not without users. Linux is not even remotely feasible for average home users and/or potheads who share roughly the same intelligence levels.
      • oblique63, on 05/31/2008, -0/+3did you even read his post?...

        What he was saying was that developing games in linux would give the game developers a lot more freedom in terms of squeezing added performance out of the users' systems because they will have access to the drivers, and Im sure any pc gamer would be more then happy to squeeze more life out of their system before having them become obsolete, because I highly doubt anybody really genuinely feels that spending a ton of money for a new video card/processor every 3-5 years is totally worth it in conjunction with the money they would then spend on the new games that would demand such hardware...

        and this is not only good for the consumer, its a smart move on valve's part as well, because they're games will have a broader appeal amongst those with 'older' systems... and plus, like the blog post suggested, valve would be amongst the first to gather concrete statistics about gaming on linux with this move, which could then prove valuable for several companies, and everyone in the pc gaming industry (including consumers) would benefit...
  • kris33, on 05/31/2008, -2/+12PS3 does not use much of OpenGL anymore, atleast according to the developer of Burnout Paradise:

    "FYI - PS3 does not use OpenGL. With early PS3 SDKs Sony helped developers to get up to speed by providing a version of OpenGL, though very soon after that Sony brought in a much lower-level API, which is a very thin layer on top of the hardware and allowed much more control over everything. So while some games may still use OpenGL, I suspect most games are now using the newer API (Burnout certainly does)"

    http://www.criteriongames.com/forum/viewtopic.php? ...
  • Ev3nt372, on 05/31/2008, -40/+6***** Linux!
    • 4DFX, on 05/31/2008, -3/+6****** stupid illiterate ignorant jerks!

      There, I fixed it for you.
    • AzureRise, on 06/01/2008, -0/+4***** you!
  • clesch, on 05/31/2008, -16/+2Why does everyone here assume that it will be native with OpenGL?

    http://www.transgaming.com/

    (hey, I agree... it's better than nothing. but still meh.)
    • Sammi84, on 05/31/2008, -0/+4If they want to use a wrapper then I would be much happier if they went with Codeweavers. They are the main financial backers of Wine.

      Transgaming are nothing more than leaches on open source that give nothing back. Plus Cedega from Transgaming is based on a 5 year old fork of Wine, and they haven't been able to get any of the improvements to Wine since then, while Codeweavers got it all in their Crossover product.
  • xceptionaly, on 05/31/2008, -0/+3I thought this was a pretty fair assumption. I thought it was confirmed that they were at least porting the steam client itself to Linux, and what the hell good would that do with no games to run on it?
  • whoreable, on 05/31/2008, -10/+3Sorry, I am having a hard time getting excited about the release of an old game engine.
    • Sammi84, on 05/31/2008, -3/+6Old? Incorrect.

      Source is very much up to date. It may have been some time since the original version was released, but Source is still being actively developed. Check it out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Source_engine

      "Latest release: Protocol 14, Build 3468 / May 6, 2008"
    • WoWii, on 05/31/2008, -11/+2There is a reason TF2 doesn't have realistic graphics.
      Hint: Call of Duty 4
      Out of date indeed.
      • wTheOnew, on 05/31/2008, -0/+6You do know that game is supposed to look the way it does right? Half-Life 2: Episode 2 looks better then CoD4 and it uses the same engine as TF2.
  • waymon, on 05/31/2008, -1/+12I just want source on OSX. I am a big CS:S player and I only have a PC for CS:S. I also have a macbook pro and if source was on OSX I could get rid of my PC entirely!!!! So here is hoping it happens sooon.
    • LucasJ218, on 05/31/2008, -5/+1The problem with this is that you're playing CSS. All that game does is teach you to shoot an inch away from heads to get head shots.
    • colincornaby, on 05/31/2008, -0/+3Why would you need to keep a PC around? CS:S plays great on Crossover Office or Crossover Games, or you could install Boot Camp.
    • orph3us, on 06/01/2008, -0/+2i confirm crossover games runs source very well. CSS doesn't need hdr like tf2 to look good. CSS was designed before dx9.0c came around (which wine doesn't support properly or the drivers in linux/osx don't support actually from what I hear) so it looks great. Get Crossover games, its an easy way to play it...
      • bj1989, on 06/01/2008, -0/+1Wine supports dx9.0c partly. The drivers have nothing to do with that.
    • noerrorsfound, on 06/01/2008, -0/+2How will you play these games on Mac OS X when you get rid of your Mac personal computer?
  • PussyControl, on 05/31/2008, -2/+17Steam work fine on wine, been enjoying TF2 and portal on ubuntu quite a bit
    • tzcomwhiz, on 05/31/2008, -2/+12but the fps is lower than what you'd get in win.
      • Sammi84, on 05/31/2008, -1/+4Depends. Lots of people get good FPS, though some games work better than others. Wine isn't finished yet. It's been in development for 15 years, and you can expect a few more until DirectX is fully implemented. You should expect older games to run better, as they don't use the newest parts of the DirectX API.

        Guess it all depends most on graphics cards, as ATI don't make good Linux drivers. Nvidia on the other hand have a good reputation on Linux.
    • identitymatrix, on 05/31/2008, -0/+3I tried HL2 on Ubuntu a few months ago and most of the game worked, but there were still some bugs with rendering water and shadows. I don't know how much it's improved since then but if Valve ports the Source Engine to Linux it should fix these things and hopefully also improve the frame rate.
    • orph3us, on 06/01/2008, -0/+1I hate when people say it works fine. It works fine if you don't like your graphics to look smooth... Wine and linux/osx drivers don't support directx 9.0c effects. So take away hdr, take away some blending, a lot of flat colors, less reflections, aa is slow. What you get is that for a game designed for dx9 or above your textures are inverted, water looks black, and everything looks really flat. If dx9.0 was supported better by wine then there would be no problem, but it doesn't look like proper support will arrive anytime in the next year.
  • brianboyko, on 05/31/2008, -0/+8I have no need for Windows if I can install a Linux version of Steam; (assuming of course, that there would be games other than Valve's available)
  • knodi, on 05/31/2008, -5/+10Please OSX to please.
    • supermanred, on 05/31/2008, -0/+3I agree! And with a Linux version, which is essentially Unix it wont take long for them to code one that is compatible with OS X (also Unix)...

      Can't wait!

      Gaming without crashes or bluescreens...its almost like using my Xbox 360 except, on a PC!!
      • victorc26, on 05/31/2008, -5/+3My games don't crash and my system doesn't Bluescreen either, and I'm on Windows. Check your drivers and hardware.
        • DestroyFascism, on 05/31/2008, -1/+4WTF?!

          That sounds just like some software companies help desk.
        • victorc26, on 06/06/2008, -0/+1That should tell you why IT helpdesks ask you that in the first place. Usually most problems with any OS are usually related to driver/hardware conflicts. This is basic IT 101.

          OS is acting up? Check the hardware, then check the drivers, then check the registry.
    • wTheOnew, on 05/31/2008, -1/+2Interesting sentence... I know what you're going for but there has to be a better way to word it.
  • Baronvontito1, on 05/31/2008, -18/+3Like Linux users are actually willing to pay for functioning software. Hah!
    • sapient2003, on 05/31/2008, -1/+10People do not use Linux because they are cheapskates. They use it because of what is offers to them: security, stability and efficiency. Linux users would be more than happy to purchase quality software that has no other free equivalents available.
    • colto, on 05/31/2008, -1/+6Sure they would. They are just more likely to support open-source software. In this case however I feel we would see a good amount of customers.
    • Phocion55, on 05/31/2008, -0/+6http://www.press.redhat.com/?s=trend

      Your enlightenment for the day. No need to thank me.
    • init100, on 06/01/2008, -0/+5Like Windows users are actually willing to pay for software. Most seem to pirate it instead.
  • sideshowmel91, on 05/31/2008, -1/+7This better happen. I haven't played my Steam games in ages.
  • markymark123, on 05/31/2008, -1/+5long overdue
  • wafflesomd, on 05/31/2008, -3/+9They would be stupid not to do this.
  • GarethLWalt, on 05/31/2008, -4/+3Steam [games] already work in Linux through the use of CrossOver Office -- but that costs a bit of cash..
    It'd definitely be nice to see Valve support it natively. ^.^
    • ogisdan, on 05/31/2008, -2/+3The programs you are trying to emulate still all have the same problems. If by crossover you mean codeweavers, you can get better support and functionality through Wine.
      • GarethLWalt, on 06/01/2008, -0/+2Codeweaver's CrossOver Office is built upon Wine. It's purpose is to take Wine and apply it to specific applications for better quality control. I don't understand why you'd believe running Wine would increase "support and functionality."
  • supermanred, on 05/31/2008, -9/+1Right, like Windows users are the ones who do. Hope you enjoy your encryption chip on your new motherboard. It will be turned on in about a year. Get used to paying for software, the end is near.
    • victorc26, on 05/31/2008, -1/+1Do you even know what TPM is meant to be used for? Did you even know that's it's been activated already?
  • WoWii, on 05/31/2008, -13/+1Too bad the Source engine is out of date.
    • BedPost, on 05/31/2008, -0/+2Someone hasn't played Episode 2/Portal.
  • ogisdan, on 05/31/2008, -4/+1i hate how wine hits me with a HUGE fps hit. i would absolutely splooge my pants if i were to no longer need windows.
  • neonpulse, on 05/31/2008, -1/+3There already is Source Engine on Linux, just the server for it like many other games have Linux server releases. This doesn't necessarily mean we should expect a Linux client, just that they're hiring someone to work on the source engine for Linux, most likely as a server since that's all it is now.

    I find irony in the "Source" engine not being OpenSource.
    • CarzorStelatis, on 06/01/2008, -1/+1The ad said "port Windows games". Go and play a game with your Source Server.
      • neonpulse, on 06/05/2008, -0/+1The Source server is still running the game.
        The game is made for Windows as a client and server, then they port the server to Linux, thus the windows game has been ported to Linux, just not as a client.
  • Papajohn56, on 05/31/2008, -2/+8MAC PLEASE
    • pigducksheep, on 05/31/2008, -2/+2Seriously. Being a mac user while there's team fortress 2 out there? Very unfortunate.
      • UKsHaDoW, on 05/31/2008, -0/+2I just swap between os's.
      • Papajohn56, on 05/31/2008, -0/+2actually i'd rather play halo, i just want more available anyway
    • JonLatane, on 05/31/2008, -0/+6If they're porting to Linux, they're no doubt also porting to Mac. It's just that Linux geeks tend to be the ones who care about games (well, at least compared to Mac users) so that's what we hear most about. However, if they're porting to Linux, they must be using OpenGL, which means it should work the same on Mac.
    • PhailQuail, on 06/01/2008, -7/+2I hope they don't port to mac, the average technical ability of mac users is much lower than Windows and Linux's.
      Oh well, I guess that means there are more idiots to fall for the "press F10 for godmode"
      • UKsHaDoW, on 06/01/2008, -1/+5I bet on average the windows user tech skills are lower. To know about macs you have to be into technology. The average person would just think windows is all that there is.

        Plus I'm mac user. Computer scientist, a long with a few comp sci lectures.
        Plus i hate elitist ***** such as your self.
  • Zaggynl, on 05/31/2008, -1/+3Day I fully remove Wintendo and get myself a flavor of penguin.
    • mrBitch, on 06/01/2008, -0/+2This just in!
      "Valve main cause of Windows sales drop as gamers switch to Linux as their OS of choice for their next gaming rig..."
  • jacekpoplawski, on 05/31/2008, -1/+4Create commercial games working on fully free Linux (with open source ATI driver) and you will see my cash.
  • chris9902, on 05/31/2008, -11/+4Why would Valve port Steam over to Linux or Mac when 100% of the games it sells don't work on those systems? Even if they ported over the Source engine (which they won't) that means they can sell 6 games.

    you're gonna have more luck with Xbox Live on the Wii.
    • Gogogo111, on 05/31/2008, -4/+1Uh what? Mac and Linux aren't "systems". There operating systems. And further more, what the hell do you mean by six games? Theres so many more source games, not to mention mods for them.
      • chris9902, on 06/01/2008, -0/+1"Mac and Linux aren't "systems". There operating systems."

        fantastic.
    • srg13, on 06/01/2008, -1/+4Actually, there are many Linux games on Steam - the whole id games catalogue for one, and a few others.

      But this is completly irrelevant - we're talking about the Source engine, not Steam.
    • CarzorStelatis, on 06/01/2008, -1/+4'Why would Valve port Steam over to Linux or Mac when 100% of the games it sells don't work on those systems? (...) that means they can sell 6 games.'

      Buried for self-contradiction.
      • chris9902, on 06/01/2008, -4/+1Nice of you edit my post and then comment.

        I said there's no reason to port Steam because none of the games work and EVEN IF they ported the Source engine it would on be 6 games.

        Now kindly get the ***** off the Internet.
    • StealthTomato, on 06/01/2008, -0/+2Wow, way to fail. The fact that Source engine games don't support Mac or Linux is the entire freaking reason they would port them in the first place.

      If you actually RTFA, you'll see that this post ("Valve Source Engine to hit Linux soon...?") is about the possibility of the ENGINE coming to Linux, and a Steam port is only implied.
  • MalDON, on 05/31/2008, -0/+4I'd love to see steam on my mac. It's the only reason I still have my Windows box.
    • mrBitch, on 06/01/2008, -0/+2It's the only reason I still have a Windows partition on my MacBook Pro. I just love TF2.
  • ZachSka87, on 05/31/2008, -1/+2Yeah, very old news.
  • Super6, on 05/31/2008, -0/+2If steam and all Valve games were ported to Linux then I think my desktop might finally join my laptop in running Linux Mint.
  • Smegzor, on 05/31/2008, -2/+2This sounds great for Linux, but I've been running Steam and all my Steam games on Wine for ages and they out perform my old native XP installs. True, my new machine is a beast and it whips the old pc's ass, but Wine has made native ports of Steam unnecessary IMO.
    • linuxpenguin, on 06/01/2008, -1/+2You misread - this is a port of the Source engine (ie, the engine that powers Half-Life 2 and all the other Orange Box games, as well as many others).
      For anyone who doesn't know, there has been a Linux version of Steam for quite some time now - it's just useless to most people because there's no Linux games to download. It's only useful if you've set up your own dedicated server (or at least, that's what I used it for - I used to run my own Counter-Strike server about maybe 5 years ago).
      • srg13, on 06/02/2008, -0/+1That's essentially just a command line updater for the dedicated server, not the actual full steam client though, isn't it?
  • Crash90, on 05/31/2008, -0/+9Valve could really corner the market with macs and linux here. I for one would be all about this and would also be happy to finally be able to ditch my windows box. I think a number of linux users keep a windows machine around for games only.
    • DestroyFascism, on 05/31/2008, -0/+3A number of linux users keep a windows machine around for games only is correct! I don't use Xp for anything other than gaming and checking code.
  • linuxpenguin, on 06/01/2008, -0/+5Valve would be smart to port Source over to Linux. Half-Life and Half-Life 2 are basically classics already, and some devices are using Linux - and I think it's only a matter of time before someone tries to sell a Linux-based game console, not to mention there are many people who like to hook a MythTV box to their TV and play old games through MIME or whatever other emulator that way. There's also many people who already use Linux, and would prefer to buy Linux-native games rather than use WINE or dual-boot. Some might not want to re-buy their old games, but many new games use the same engine.
  • 1timeuser, on 06/01/2008, -8/+2We haven't heard this one before like a billion times.




    (Just kidding. We have.)
    • StealthTomato, on 06/01/2008, -0/+1"One-time user" indeed. BLOCKED.
  • Woknblues, on 06/01/2008, -1/+2MOAR
  • Snafu7, on 06/01/2008, -0/+3Really hope this happens soon. Would allow me to get rid of my Windows Installation.
  • FireSlash, on 06/01/2008, -0/+2To mac please. PLEASE. Crossover games works, but it's far too janky. And I can't seem to get portal running... so off I go to bootcamp. Fail. :(
  • romulasry, on 06/01/2008, -1/+3Steam on linux mentioned by Steam moderator
    http://www.phoronix.com/forums/showthread.php?t=99 ...
  • incd, on 06/01/2008, -0/+2This is the year Half-Life turns 10 years.. November 19th
  • bliz, on 06/01/2008, -0/+3I bought orangebox and couldn't play on my laptop (win xp) as the onboard graphics is lacking. My desktop does not have windows so I'm really looking forward to steam games being supported on linux (without using wine).
  • mike215, on 06/01/2008, -0/+2linux ports would be awesome, wine works ok but having them completely native would be so much better
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