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52 Comments
- diggapleaze, on 10/12/2007, -8/+26holy ***** guy, you think this isn't about ubuntu? Do you *know* who jono bacon is?
".all you ubuntu users may think its cool to have ubuntu word all over the place but its starting to annoy some of us linux users but non ubuntu users .."
I'm an ARCH LINUX user! I submitted this story because, like it or not, Ubuntu is 40% of the Linux market, so it's damned important to keep up with Ubuntu! Decisions that Canonical and the Ubuntu community make trickle down to everyone else! The only thing worse than Ubuntu fanboys on digg are idiot anti-Ubuntu fanboys on digg on think they're so ***** leet because they run PC Linux OS!!!!! My grandma (this is *no* joke) runs PC LINUX OS!!! So shut the ***** hell up!
/end rant - crazybrit, on 10/12/2007, -3/+20"the article isnt about ubuntu and ubuntu name shouldnt be in the title"
What? It's from the UBUNTU COMMUNITY MANAGER. - diggapleaze, on 10/12/2007, -1/+15My apologies to Jono (if you're reading this) for submitting this to digg without fair warning (you have seen me as brentcool in irc). Sorry mate! And my apologies to fellow diggers for such a damn long comment here, but I have no choice...there aren't any caches.
Here's his blog post in full since duggmirror didn't catch it:
Features vs. Freedom
This entry is my opinion and may not represent the views of my employer, Canonical.
Recently there has been a lot of discussion bubbling up regarding the possibility that Ubuntu will ship proprietary 3D drivers by default for some video cards. My aim here is not to discuss the specifics of that decision, which is still being fleshed out and ratified, but to instead define my views on the bigger picture behind the discussion - features vs. freedom.
I will warn you now people, my views and opinions on this are not exactly simple. While discussing this view with many friends and colleagues, I have been informed in words of single syllables that my position is complex and multi-faceted. I have had largely the same view on this subject since I got into free software, but I have been working to better define it, and here I want to document it. So, hang in there with me. I may give you a cracker at the end if you are still paying attention…
For some years now I have been expecting a show-down between freedom and features. That is, our community would need to make an important decision between freedom and a closed source technology that is deemed important. In this showdown each of us draw a line in the sand, but our lines vary hugely. In the past, the issue was largely moot - few closed source technologies were deemed important by the wider free software community. Today though we have a bling-tastic desktop just over the horizon, but for many of us the transparent-rounded-wobbly-shadowed masterpiece (!) is inaccessible without some closed-source driver wizardry being poured into your computer. The debate here is not really the specifics of closed-source 3D graphics drivers, but whether we are willing to compromise our freedom for closed source drivers that will ultimately get more people using Linux. Are we?
Compromise is an interesting word, and everyone’s definition of it and the freedom they defend with it differs vastly. It seems that for many people, their definition of freedom is closely interwoven with their ability or willingness to compromise on certain features. Although we have many holier-than-thou bloggers who demand freedom and “no compromise” as cornerstones of their philosophy, far too many of these people don’t themselves practise what they preach. Many of these people place freedom as the single most important aspect of Linux and free software, but crank up the wireless firmware, binary blobs in their kernel, send pithy emails of complaint about incursions to their freedom from their Gmail account and go to work every day in a Microsoft-shop. When queried about such abundant compromises in their own philosophy, the response is often that “you totally need a wireless network card to get stuff done”, “web applications are different”, “firmware is different” or “I have no control over my choice of career”. Each of these indiscretions are compromises, and many of the people who claim them do have control and the ability to change them, but the changes are simply too inconvenient. But hey, the “no compromise” lifestyle is not typically one befitted with ease and luxury - the ethos is to pucker up and suck it up in the name of ethics and free software.
My opinion on this is simple. I believe that people should simply practise what they preach. If your opinion is “no compromise”, then there should be no compromise. You don’t get to choose what is more ethically acceptable here, this is the point of “no compromise”. From the outset I have always stated that I believe in free software, but I do acknowledge that I sometimes use non-free software - as many of you know, my studio is currently non-free until we all feel the big Jokosher love. I have explicitly not taken a “no compromise” position because I know I could not maintain a “no compromise” lifestyle. As I made clear in a previous entry, I think sensationalism is an enemy in the free software world, but unfortunately much of the discussion about features vs. freedom seems to boil down to very vocal outbursts by the holier-than-thou brigade who often step beyond sage fact and fall into headlines and rhetoric to grab Planet readers while they eat their breakfast.
Those who shout the loudest are not always the best barometer of opinion.
Will the features work?
Today we live in a competitive industry. Although dominated by Microsoft, all vendors, including our friends in Seattle, are working hard to create features and innovations to keep them in the game. As the world learns to talk to each other over the Internet, computers become more centrally placed in our lives, and we spend more time caring about computers than we used to. They are no longer the ugly beige boxes shoved under a desk in a cold office, they are must-have items that help us run our lives, define our style and allow us to share and communicate with each other.
As computers have become so central to us, the vendors have ramped up the bling to provide a more aesthetically pleasing experience. These improvements not only make computers more attractive to use, but more usable too. Irrespective of the arguments behind freedom, having a sane bling-enabled desktop does create a better experience for the user. Microsoft and Apple have invested in this, and as such having a bling-enabled desktop is part and parcel of the competitive market. This is what happens when dominant market players define direction - to stay in the game, you need to compete on the same playing field.
Bling is important, not specifically for the features it gives us, but for the competitive advantage it gives us. If we can’t compete, we will lose. Simple. Now, some of you may be happy for Linux to always remain a niche Operating System that only a small subset of people of use, but I see things differently. I want us to win, and I get up every single day with the intention of helping us to win. Many of us talk about World Domination, but achieving World Domination is something that can only happen if we too keep ourselves in the game. When we step too far away from the competitive industry, we risk becoming an historical reflection in the computing timeline, not entirely dissimilar from BeOS or OS/2. Its tempting to get on our collective high-horses and snub the rest of the industry that they don’t follow our ethos and perspective, but while admirable in a puritanical sense, it is destructive in a competitive “lets kick some arse” sense.
So here we face the challenge - we have a clear conflict of interest between moving forward and being relevant and a conflict with the freedoms that underpin our whole community. I don’t see this conflict any easier than anyone else, and I too hold the values of software freedom close to my heart. But while it is tempting to pontificate, I would rather spend my energy trying to help us win. There are basically two options that I see here. We can either sacrifice our freedom a little bit to be competitive, or stick to our guns and stick with freedom, but potentially sacrifice the ability to compete. One way or another, something wins and something loses. Lets look at the possible outcomes, all pushed through my own notch filter of how I suspect it would turn out:
* We allow 3D proprietary drivers and sacrifice part of our freedom - by including the driver support for some cards, we will allow Linux to compete with Vista and Mac OS X, and stay relevant in the game. As we remain competitive, more people get to know about Linux and more people get to taste the freedom that is secured in 99% of most Linux distributions. As such, by remaining competitive, we get the ability to push out the message to more users and we get a bigger net win of people using free software. Essentially, our sacrifice of freedom in one aspect of the system (3D drivers) would result in a much bigger net win of users enjoying freedom in other aspects of the system (the rest of the distribution). This would result in more users, and importantly more contributors to the free software community, helping us to create more free software.
* We deny inclusion of the 3D proprietary drivers by default for reasons of freedom - if this happens we would be secure in that freedom is preserved in the 3D aspect of the distribution, but we would lose our ability to compete on the 3D level, which while not exclusively bling-related, would impede our competitive ability. This would give our competitors the ability to steam ahead of us, leaving our comparatively boring and flat looking OS in the dust. As our competitors grow they will increase their assault on other parts where we do win, and this would put more pressure on Linux distributors. This increased pressure could involve layoffs and result in less time being invested in distributions and less time being invested in upstream development. As such, our current standard of living would begin to drop and less time and money would be invested in Linux.
Now, of course, I am not suggesting the world is going to come crashing down if we don’t include the bling, but the world will come crashing down if we don’t keep Linux competitive. Sure, on the server we have things mostly sewn up, but on the desktop it is an entirely different game and a different set of rules.
What I believe is critically important is that we never stop fighting for Open Source 3D graphics drivers. A comprimise in freedom in part of the wider Linux distribution needs to be backed up with a confidence that the freedom will continue to be the priority as market share grows. The key difference here is our approach to getting this freedom - it will only happen with market pressure. The fight for free drivers for reasons of freedom has not proved successful, and the choice to only buy Intel will have some impact, but not a huge impact due to lower market share. We need to become a large and relavent player, a player that can mandate decisions at a market level that will truly affect the market. Sure, there are plenty of challenges to this approach - when we get a large market share, would Linux distributions really want to rock the boat and demand Open Source drivers? Well, this is the proof of the pudding. I expect companies such as Canonical, Red Hat, Linspire and Novell to always place consistant market pressure on the hardware manufacturors to understand and migrate to the ethos of free software.
Although the decision about binary 3D drivers in Ubuntu is not yet concluded, the bigger picture encroaches many other areas. Of all, I would love to see our community get a better, more representated voice when it comes to issues of freedom. We all hold freedom close to our hearts, but sometimes the very loud voices of the few can blur the general opinion of the masses. We each have one voice in the choir. - diggapleaze, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12@jenkins86
I actually find Schestowitz to usually make very good and insightful comments compared to the other linuxy diggers. Maybe he missed the point on this one but don't make him out to be someone he's not. - nailer, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12Did you read the article? Jono makes the point that most distros are already shipping binry blobs. Even the most free ship binary microcode for Intel CPUs. Some ship firmware. Some ship proprietary drivers needed to connect to any network.
This is one step further. Jono argus its necessary to keep up with the usability advantages that modern windowing systems provide. - myFriendDerrik, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8Lose a battle, but win the war.
I say include the drivers. - widman, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5@schestowitz I agree completely. And security is terrible on those drivers.
- pozzoe, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I think Linux has yet many battles to fight. It could use some allies. Once we start gaining ground on the 3d arena and applications (i.e. games) start coming we can continue with the graphic drivers issues.
I don't believe in dogmatism. I believe in goals. And in order to achieve goals the community needs a strategy, not only a philosophy. - sanguinemoon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Thanks for pasting that. I hope Jono doesn't mind, though. I agree with most of those points that he makes, and I'm glad that he mentioned still fighting for opensource drivers. What does worry me a bit is that he mentions "bling" quite a bit. This implies style over substance, when in fact, the benefits of the 3D desktop go beyond the silly wobbly windows - but I guess that's something that can be readily appearantly to the users, especially new *nix users.
To me, a large distro like Ubuntu can just make the binary blobs an option when upon installation. Something like "Do you want the nvidia driver installed by default? This is closed sourced software. Y/N" (don't say "this is not free software" because on a distro like Ubuntu, I promise you'll get users thinking they'll have to shell out $$$ for the driver)
Of course, users that want 100% free software can get something like gNewSense. - stupidbrowner, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4@Enroth
What kind of graphics card do you have? One of the great things about Linux in general is the community and being able to ask questions if you have problems. If your card is made by any of the major distributors there are very easy methods for installing drivers. I have an nVidia card and all I had to do was run the Envy script and it did the installation automatically.
So, if you don't understand "the code" give up your ego and ask for help, it is out there! - diggapleaze, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4I'm not *defending* ubuntu you moron! I put "Ubuntu" in the title because the story's actually ABOUT ubuntu! Did you read the story yet? I posted it above just for you.
- gfnw, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2IT. WAS. WRITTEN. BY. THE. UBUNTU. COMMUNITY. MANAGER.
The article pertains directly to Ubuntu. - diggapleaze, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2no caches caught it. go to planet.gnome.org or see comment below for full story
- cynicist, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2That....was beautiful. I agree with everything he said, except buy Intel-only. To me, open-sourcing their graphics drivers were just the right way to go competitively in the onboard graphics sector. They didn't lose anything but gained many more Linux customers by making their laptop purchasing choice easier. AMD has helped Linux and the freebios project by opening up some major parts of their bios code and providing their techs, while Intel, to quote the FSF, "has started a sham "open source" BIOS project. The software consists of all the unimportant parts of of a BIOS, without the hard parts. It won't run,and doesn't bring us any closer to a BIOS that does run. It is just a distraction." (Source: http://www.fsf.org/campaigns/free-bios.html)
My point is that we aren't really sure of either company's support of Linux just yet, so we shouldn't boycott them.
Ah and I also have a minor rant. Those of you who complain about this and that hardware not working with linux seem to forget the fact that linux != opensource/free windows. When using an alternative operating system you can't expect everything to "just work". Find out whether or not your hardware is supported by asking in IRC or some forums, or just using google. You can find hardware compatibility lists for Linux everywhere if you just look. And if your hardware doesn't work, instead of wasting time registering on some forums to complain about it, why not write a letter to the manufacturer requesting a driver? That would save everyone a lot of time and headache.
Mofo, Either of them would be a good choice. AMD64 is referring to the architecture AMD developed. Intel basically adopted it, and rebranded it Intel 64 after their Itanium disaster. (The vendor-neutral terms for this architecture are x64 and x86-64) Linux has also had support for dual-core processors for a long time. Basically both Ubuntu and Opensuse support your processor fully, so you should focus on other differences to make your decision. - night000, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Does that include BeOS&Solaris? What about windows 3.1?
- Mofo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I'm a linux noob and was wondering what would be best to use dual booting with my core2duo with win xp? I'm pretty much between decided between ubuntu and opensuse. I see that ubuntu only has a 64 version for amd cpus while opensuse has a 64 version that will run under dualcore.
- Meep3D, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4It's not just 'bling'. You gain performance by moving the rendering to the graphics card rather than the CPU and it also allows other nice tricks easily, such as vector icons, resolution-independant screen sizes and just generally better performance overall. It's a logical progression of the windowing system and not implementing it would be a mistake long term.
- davefretty, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3is it just me or does anybody else think the whole 3D desktop thing is over-hyped. I have heard some complaints about aero-glass in Vista making people feel a bit sick. I must admit I feel the same way about Beryl and have turned the effects off.
I do think Linux will change and not necessarily for the best as it becomes a mainstream OS, as it becomes more popular it will lose some of its idealism.....then again there will always be different distros that can cater for everyones different ethical and moral viewpoints. - brickbat, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3I think that as long as they can't get sued and it makes Ubuntu easier to install / Use, they should go for it.
- FKnight, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Yeah, ask for help and get lambasted by most of the Linux fan club because you're a stupid n00b who doesn't know how to compile ***** and shouldn't own a computer unless you can read source. Linux will never get anywhere on the desktop because the most vocal of Linux supporters still believe you should be required to be a computer geek in order to use a computer. The Linux community in general needs to be told that the 80s wants their entire decade back.
- 10scjed, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2The GPL is not an EULA, it is a distribution license, I can do what I like with the software on my machine, including making a bastardized GNU/proprietary system tuned just the way I like it, with whatever I need to best support my hardware. But if I wanted to distribute the software as such, I wouldn’t be able to do so under the GPL, I could contact all of the authors and try to work out alternate licensing, but not under the GPL, again as I understand it.
http://boycottnovell.com/2006/12/18/freedom-vs-features-ubuntus-search-for-bling/ - sworoc, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Closed source is a temporary fix, but not a permanent solution. Ultimately, it is much better to have the companies release open source drivers, I think that is agreed upon by just about everybody.
Inch by inch, developers write open source code that will do things that weren't available through open source before. Replacing binary blobs with open source code is progress. Recently I saw an article on open source BIOS, this is one example. I don't mean that current open source code is always better, but when it is finished it will be better for everybody.
In regards to being a niche operating system, it takes time. If you have to throw in closed source blobs to slap together something just to rapidly gain users, you're not really worried about a quality product. For everything to work together smoothly and to be done right, it will take time. Don't compromise what you are building to get instant popularity.
If you want a quick fix, run everything in WINE. If you want to develop a solid, stable, smooth, quality operating system, take the time to make everything consistent and open source. If you need to get something working more quickly, use a closed source segment, but don't let it become a permanent solution. - dorkusmalorkus, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3At first I thought "Holy $#!t what a rant". Then I realized you were reposting the article. HaHa! Great uname by the way :)
- sworoc, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Closed source is a temporary fix, but not a permanent solution. Ultimately, it is much better to have the companies release open source drivers, I think that is agreed upon by just about everybody.
Inch by inch, developers write open source code that will do things that weren't available through open source before. Replacing binary blobs with open source code is progress. Recently I saw an article on open source BIOS, this is one example. I don't mean that current open source code is always better, but when it is finished it will be better for everybody.
In regards to being a niche operating system, it takes time. If you have to throw in closed source blobs to slap together something just to rapidly gain users, you're not really worried about a quality product. For everything to work together smoothly and to be done right, it will take time. Don't compromise what you are building to get instant popularity.
If you want a quick fix, run everything in WINE. If you want to develop a solid, stable, smooth, quality operating system, take the time to make everything consistent and open source. If you need to get something working more quickly, use a closed source segment, but don't let it become a permanent solution. - dotwaffle, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1It's working now. I think Aq, Xalior and Jono altered some Apache settings, such as min preforks etc. Go, enjoy.
- dotwaffle, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Another lame digger thinking that people care about whether something is lame.
Honestly, if you don't like something, don't digg it, don't post in it, and if you feel it's that bad, bury it. Don't be an *****.
And it's not a lame Linux article. Jono's a good person, he works for a good company, and he's on a great (if not the greatest) Linux podcast out there, LUGRadio.
So shove that in your pipe and smoke it "joe361". - ubuwalker31, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2If I buy a piece of hardware, whether it be a video card, a modem, a printer, or a hard drive, I expect it to work regardless of the operating system. The seller of the hardware has an obligation to provide the software driver to make the goods work. I shouldn't have to 'spend more money' or worry about 'licensing issues' to use a product I already bought. A binary blob is merely a key to use hardware, not some sort of plague infested virus that can't be shipped with a 'free operating system'.
I have a 'right' to use all of my computer equipment and no one should be able to take that away that right, neither under the guise of copyright/patent law, nor the guise of "free software"! - diggapleaze, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2and you can't deny the *necessary* benefits to accessibility such as zooming in on the desktop to view tiny text. Mac people who have bad vision can't live without from what I hear.
- tropican8, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Are you saying you don't want your OS to look like a sweaty black guy? Suit yourself.
- Enroth, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Just thought I would make another post, now I’m probably just having a cry but I figure I might as well clarify some things.
1st, I was merely stating that problems for the average home user exist, as with all OS’s.
2nd, I stated that I was a computing student because like it or not that means I am used to dealing with computers more so than the average home user (as most diggers are), thus more likely to be able to fix the problem. I never claimed that I could write my own driver (after all I’m still only a student) when it comes to computing there are a lot of people who know a lot more than I do, but there are more that know less.
3rd. @ch33zm0ng3 I’m sorry that my English isn’t up to the same standard as yours, but I believe I made my point. If one person can’t take what I say about computing seriously because my English isn’t good, then to tell you the truth I don’t care. In future please criticize me for what I say not my spelling, if you are half as smart as you pretend I’m sure we will all be better people for reading it.
Like I said this is probably more of a cry than anything else, and I know how much people here hate that, the red thumb is on the left. - Meep3D, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2I don't see how anybody could possible have a problem with this. It's the very essence of Linux and the GPL. If you don't like it, DONT USE IT! Go and use Gentoo or something. As long as the GPL remains unviolated (legally) there is no issue.
Nobody is stopping anyone from ripping the drivers out and repackaging the distro as 'completely free', or uninstalling them and installing free ones yourself. Surely it's better that way too - the people that know how can, the people that don't don't have to worry.
And I'd rather everyone was using closed source blobs on an open system over closed source blobs on a closed source system, which is the current system and will never change unless the current situation changes. - fulldecent, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2If you're not going to fully support the hardware that I have, then you at least need to make an official recommendation of what upgrades I should make.
You know that something is wrong when I went to buy a new vid card last month and no one could recommend one that was going to work. - sanguinemoon, on 10/12/2007, -4/+4Enroth,
So you had problems with your graphics card. That does suck. I've been there and screwed things up very badly to the point where the x server didn't start (which can be frightening to a new user, you have know to open a virtual console and edit the xorg.conf file in a CLI editor. A new user wouldn't know how to the do this and would probably have to reinstall the OS or switch back to Windows. The second option is for he's a coward.) However, your experience does not mean that Ubuntu and the other distros need to include drivers and such that are not "even" included in Windows by default. When I decided to back to dual-booting for games, guess what? I had to install the Nvidia driver for XP! And it was more of a nuisance than in any form of *nix that I've used. For some reason you thought it was important to state that you're a "computing" student. That doesn't mean all that much. - jaredvolkl, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1I like this guy. He talks sense and listens to metal.
- sanguinemoon, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1I'm digging you down because...WTF are you talking about? A random comment completely out of anything resembling context. Whatever.
- artofwar420, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2not available
- judsond, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2Just because he doesn't agree doesn't mean he missed the point.
- roosterjm2k2, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1Actually, you can.
What you can't do, is interject Ideology into technology and expect to win in a capitalist world. - rmjb, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2http://duggmirror.com ?
- rmjb - heathenx, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1i totally agree with jono. many of us simply want things to work...out of the box. that's how to experience linux. when my distro is working flawlessly it's absolutely amazing but if i have to struggle with a wifi driver or video card for too long, i feel like booting it.
us loyal linux users would love for vendors to open source their drivers, but honestly, do we see that happening anytime soon. most of my hardware has worked great over the years in suse and ubuntu it's getting worse because they are removing the drivers from the latest distros. don't go backwards guys... - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0I'm not sure if you were attempting to be funny or intimidating with your post (you were neither by the way), but your comment is totally inappropriate.
Since you are obviously gay, why don't you go ahead and die of AIDS already?
Fat too? Please die of diabetes/heart disease then!
Black? Why not die of sickle-cell?
Or, perhaps you should just KILL YOURSELF! - deaper, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1Damn 11px font size and 60% grey text against a white background. I can't even read this crap.
Yeah, yeah digg me down. Whatever. - r3tex, on 10/12/2007, -7/+4I'm just fine with this. Ubuntu is great, if I want freedom i choose Debian, if I want Gnome with a brown desktop I choose Ubuntu!
Also, what's up with people bitching about who invented what feature first? Who cares? If Gnome / Vista copies a feature that OSX has,
then HAHA!! Guess you're not so special anymore huh? - rowanjl, on 10/12/2007, -6/+2Bling? Since when do people use that word, was the author trying to look like an idiot? I doubt it, but whatever happened to good old fashioned "eye candy"...
Honestly, Bing makes me think of bad rap music and giant gold necklaces worn by sweaty black guys... - jenkins86, on 10/12/2007, -16/+12nailer: schestowitz never seems to read the article. He likes to comment without considering the content. That's why it's best to thumbs-down his comments. They're based on ignorance.
Thanks. - mtzmtulivu, on 10/12/2007, -6/+2@diggapleaze
yeah, its important to keep tabs with ubuntu ..i have it on my system, i also have solaris 10, PCBSD, winXP, win2000, mac osx (osx86) ..PCLinuxOS( i like it best) is the one controlling my hardware and i run the rest on virtual machines well, I dont have anything against ubuntu, ..i think its a great distro and i chose it as a system when i use Gnome so i have nothing personal against it.
YES, its damn important to keep up with ubuntu but do you think its ok to have a title like .."ubuntu : how to show folder content using ls" .???? ..any non ubuntu user will get annoyed at some point or another when this kind of headings keep popping up all the time ..and there really was no point in having ubuntu in the headline ..linux was a better choice since the article dealt with linux politics ..
you have your opinion, and i have mine ..why you felt you had to "defend" ubuntu is just beyond me .. - joe361, on 10/12/2007, -7/+1Another lame Linux article.
- blackmariah, on 10/12/2007, -7/+1Shut the ***** up and die of Alzheimer's already, grandpa. We're sick of your old-age ***** spewage. Just ***** die of old and shut the ***** up.
- ch33zm0ng3r, on 10/12/2007, -7/+1@Enroth
The main reason that I am going to call you out is because you incorrectly used "there" instead of 'their'. I find it difficult to take anyone seriously when they refuse to conform to grammatical standards. Intelligent and insightful remarks can be stereotyped as morning if they don't appear to be formed correctly.
Including drivers doesn't come down to the question of open or closed source. You can find non-open/open drivers for almost any GNU/Linux distro IF they are made available by the companies that manufacture the hardware. No, having the source doesn't matter to 99% of people that would use a computer and most likely that is also true for about 80% of those that would install Linux. However, Linux and other "FOSS" software has always been about having the opportunity to have the source code. Some distros are very adamant about that, while others are willing to make the sacrifice to have a more "complete" operating system. Choose the distro that best suits your needs. If you want all of your hardware to be completely supported choose a complete closed source option like Windows. Otherwise, write your own damn drivers. You are, after all, a "University computing student". - mtzmtulivu, on 10/12/2007, -23/+12well, if u go after after a girl and she dumps you, you dont give up and become a priest ..you go after another one of keep going after her until she bends..if ubuntu didnt work for you, try another one ..i use PCLinuOS(pclinuxos.com) ..give it a shot ..i cant recommend others as i havent use them to make any comments about them but all could be equally valid alternatives to ubuntu .. linux software isnt great yet, one distro will totally bork on your hardware, another one will gladly run smoothly on it ..the one that works best for you and your hardware is the one that is best for you ...
offtopic:
the article isnt about ubuntu and ubuntu name shouldnt be in the title ..all you ubuntu users may think its cool to have ubuntu word all over the place but its starting to annoy some of us linux users but non ubuntu users .. -
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