What is Digg?53 Comments
- osc1882, on 10/12/2007, -4/+67I'm sorry. But things like this is the real reason why windows is doomed. You can say " look how great vista is and all it can do." But think about it. The next version windows will come out in, what, 5 years? The next version of Linux... well small parts of it come out a few times a day. Larger upgrades come out once a month. ( Different distros of Linux, but you can bet other distros will learn from the improvements of other distros). Think about how far we will come in two years. I'm guessing it will take two years before XP just doesn't do it anymore. And by then Linux will kick even more ass.
- OsakaWilson, on 10/12/2007, -1/+23I installed Beryl a few days ago and I am completely in love with it. I thought it was just eye candy (and much of it is) but much of it is also very useful. The cube makes it easy to use multiple desktops, which I just never really used before. My linux computer is now much cooler than my Windows machine by far.
- Invid, on 10/12/2007, -0/+20While much of Beryl is just eye candy for the sake of eye candy, it also contains several useful features that you really can't appreciate until you've used them. Try it for yourself. It's free, and costs you nothing but a little time and pre-conceived notions.
- SimonGray, on 10/12/2007, -1/+15"I'm sorry. But things like this is the real reason why windows is doomed"
What are you sorry for??? - crexor, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13@twtmc
beryl has nothing to do with tv out. at all. beryl is a compositing window manager, working on top of something such as xgl or aiglx. maybe you should search google on how to configure your tv out. however, ive done 3 monitors with my laptop, one with vga out, one with the svideo out, and the other the main lcd, and beryl had nothing to do with configuring this to work. the only setting in beryl that has anything to do tv out is how you want it to interact with multiple desktops, ie. one giant cube spanning across, or multiple cubes. - dmurray14, on 10/12/2007, -16/+27And unless they also have some type of productivity solution like AD, Exchange and Office that A) works as well as ad, exchange and office and B) can be supported just as well and C) is easy to switch to, then it's never going to take over Windows. Windows OWNS the business market, and it always will due to what I just mentioned. And people have a tendency to use what they're familiar with, so it will be present in the home, too.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not blowing off linux - and beryl is VERY cool. But when the fanboys start predicting the fall of windows and the linux takeover, I have to call *****. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8Ubuntu Users can add these repos:
deb http://download.tuxfamily.org/3v1deb edgy beryl-svn
deb-src http://download.tuxfamily.org/3v1deb edgy beryl-svn
and these to a system update. It will upgrade to the SVN Beryl
info:
http://3v1n0.tuxfamily.org/dists/edgy/beryl-svn/ - n0xie, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10@lithuin
I hate the word standard. Your standard may be very very different then my standard. If you want standards, you can go the microsoft way. They have one 'standard' wether you like it or not. Linux is about choice and freedom. Freedom to develop your own standard, choice in what standard you want to use. People who yell "let's have one package system" just don't get it. It's YOU who decides what package system YOU want to use.
Think about that line for a long time. That's the who idea why most fanboys hate microsoft and embrace Linux and why most fanboys get so fired up in most online discussions: it's not about Windows vs Distro X, it's about Restriction vs Freedom. - Protoss, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7I did the same thing. Installed beryl for the eye candy factor, and now that the grouping/tabbing plugin is out, I find myself using it all the time, very useful.
- tuxthepenguin, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8@ OSC1882
I'm going to have to partially agree with you.
Take a look at how far Linux has come in the past few years. It "really" is becoming an alternative OS. Now I'm not predicting the down fall of Microsoft or it [Linux] replacing Windows, but in the next few years Linux will become a real alternative to for the everyday user who doesn't know much about computers.
One thing that Linux is excelling in is knowing what people want in a desktop & OS, and they've got the community to voice that. Microsoft is falling behind the curve, they can't keep up with the demand of what people really want in an OS. - lithuin, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7@osc1882
I would love to agree with you, and in an ideal world you would be correct. In my humble opinion, this is the kind of feature that is just awesome for power users, but of little consequence for your average user that just types letters and browses the web. Partly due to its not being included in Windows, multiple viewports/virtual desktops are not something your average user is at all concerned with. Many people have trouble managing a single desktop. For graphics artists and the like, they're great, but for many they're just a needless complication.
What I really would like Linux devs to work on is something I heard another person mention in their post; software that runs first under Windows to grab settings and documents, and then transfer those to Linux so their initial experience changes as little as possible on first use. As they get more comfortable, then they can delve deeper. That, and a fully standardized method for installing software with a single click and making dependencies easier to comprehend for the average user. Yes, RPMs are nice, but this is something that should have a fully established standard. Also, standardized graphical interfaces for working with configuration files. For most people, using a text editor to change settings is to difficult, and I don't mean that in a negative way. People appreciate clearly defined options without the need to wade through documentation to understand them. Tools like this do exists for some files, but like I said, standardized windows and a clear location for finding them are the way to go. The minute you show many people a command prompt, you've lost them. People like GUIs and standards standards standards. And cupcakes. GUIs, standards, and delicious cupcakes.
Seacrest out. - yharrow, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Is Beryl the new buzzword? To some extent, yes it is. However, similar to the other technologies that you have mentioned - iphone, ajax - Beryl is significantly innovative. Yes.There will always be some components of new technologies that are apparently useless. But for every such component there are many more important features that enable people to get things done faster and more efficiently. Case in point: Wobbly windows vs expose like window switcher, cube interface and yes, the wall plug-in. Wobbly windows are for the most part distracting (at least for the majority of people I know). However features like the window switcher and cube interface allow me to get a better grasp of my workspace and greatly improves my work flow. The wall plug-in is a priceless tool for me. I can't remember how many times I wished I could just toss a window directly to another workspace, or even how many times I simply wanted to view every workspace at once. I know many people who have waited a long time for this plug-in to come out. Kudos to racarr.
- nwoolls, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7"This Wall plug-in is another example, it's useful, and it's an OS X Leopard Spaces clone, with useless 3d perspective added in."
You mean kind of like Spaces is a virtual desktop implementation, with useless animation added in? Hardly innovative. - MonkeyFit, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Firefox is not well known among the older generations and even then, most of them still worry about making the switch. You have to remember that there are people out there that think the IE logo is the internet. They ask questions like will they be able to access their email through Firefox, and even if it will work on their computer. But you are right. It's these kinds of people that will make up the market for the next 5-10 years. It will take a more tech-savvy generation to switch to Linux.
- jcblitz, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7dugg for futurama playing in the background...and I guess how cool it actually is.
- kernelhappy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5I've been pretty vocal about the limited value of some Beryl plugins and especially the eyecandy videos. But this plugin does actually serve some useful purpose. It's not laden with time consuming effects (the in and out transitions are pretty quick in this configuration) and I can see this being a boon to someone monitoring a large number of processes or graphs, etc. Burning transitions, wiggling windows and viewports on a cube do nothing but slow down or distract the user. Plugins like this give Beryl a competitive advantage.
Dugg for shutting me up. - jonnyq, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4So we're down to one Beryl link per week? Or is this just wishful thinking? One Beryl link per week would be AWESOME compared to the 12 OMGBERYL links per week.
- lithuin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@n0xie
That's the thing about standards; you may have your opinion about what it should be, and I have mine, and then it's hashed out and something becomes standard. Windows is on most computers not because it's the best, but because you can expect an amount consistency in how your programs function, how you install a new one, how you uninstall an old one, and how you change what toolbar you have at the top of your window. The fact is, most people would rather have a consistently mediocre experience than one that is occasionally spectacular, but sometimes infuriatingly complex.
Keep the "free as in speech," but get rid of the "free as in confusing for the average user because there is little consistency between programs and no interface standards." - OsakaWilson, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4I'd have to say that the most productivity-enhancing feature on Beryl is the one that creates a showcase of mini versions of all the windows that I have open on one screen and allows me to select and focus on the one I want without digging through them. I hate playing hide and seek by minimizing and maximizing a bunch of windows while i search for the one I want. Sweep the mouse to the upper right corner, then click on the one I want. It can save ten or more steps sometimes.
- msgyrd, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I don't think Beryl will cause many people to switch to linux. It's a perk, and it's awesome (it can even help with productivity), but it's not a huge selling point.
However, Beryl is a great example of why linux prospers. It has rapid development of features, a community that are friendly and helpful, and is miles ahead of the curve compared to any other 3D desktop. Linux would easily dominate ever sector if the same passion was applied to creating an exchange server and client replacement, tax and accounting software, etc. - prammy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4@nwoolls
You could also say that OSX's spaces is an implementation of the enlightenment pager just made to full-screen. And enlightenment came out with that in 1999 or 2000 or so I believe. - 16777216, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Yes, most of this is a clone of this that or the other, but you should remember that the concept of a GUI itself is a clone of a Xerox idea. So get the ***** over it. Or go back to the console for good.
- prammy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@msgyrd
A free software implementation of a fully integrated groupware application would do wonders for Linux in the small business. I do a lot of consulting for small companies and the features of outlook+exchange is a big decision in why many small companies choose to go with a Windows SBS solution.
Right now, we do have the option of Scalix (free as in beer for less than 25 premium users, unlimited regular users) and it is pretty affordable for the full and enterprise versions as well). Combine that with full support for the evolution client (full calendaring, shared folders etc) and yes linux is slowly getting the applications required :) Open X-Change is available today for Linux as well, but the install is a painful one and the microsoft outlook connector is not free. However Scalix does support integration with SugarCRM and that plus an easy installation procedure gives it an edge over Open X-Change.
And whatever happened to the Hula project I wonder. - Narishma, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2So basically it's a giant pager ?
- Mandeep, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5Who the ***** cares if it's a clone? They come up with a ton of innovative ideas and you cry because they cloned expose? And what the ***** do you mean everything was inspired by OSX? The "spaces clone" was probably in development long before Apple had their conference and showed off Leopard. You expect to respond to a post yet you still pull out your fanboyism? In my case, I don't even run linux, I just like to keep up with beryl to see when it will actually hit a point where it's stable.
- kassaralzabadi, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3@ Delmonte
Can you get this Leopard Spaces now? - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Beryl keeps getting more awesome day for day.
- jakebarnes, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3No.
Leopard = OS
Spaces = only for Leopard release
both = not released yet. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@scatched
I would guess most of those who use IE would instantly switch to Firefox, if they knew about it. But many IE users don't even know what a web browser is. - Mandeep, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1you don't have to build it from source. just enable the repos and do a dist-upgrade and thats it.
- BradleyBo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I'd like to buy Beryl a beer.
- BxBoy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I'm bleeding-edge w/ Beryl-svn.. and I must say, I'm lovin' every minute of it!
- jrieth50, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@DCStewie - I'm pretty sure you're a moron, so I'll try to type in short, simple, easily pronounced words...
Did you happen to notice the topic this post is under? Linux/UNIX.
I know your brain gets all fried up when you try to contemplate a world w/o IE7 and Windows ME, but some people use Linux. They even have their very own topic on Digg to discuss Linux; where people like you sometimes accidentally wander off path and can't figure out why the WindowsME talk has died down as of late.
If you don't like hearing about it, you should begin by exiting the Linux/UNIX topic section, make some hot cocoa and fire up MS Bob. - DelMonte, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"You mean kind of like Spaces is a virtual desktop implementation, with useless animation added in? Hardly innovative."
What useless animation are you talking about? The fact that windows scroll up, down, left or right when you switch desktop? Sorry but it's useful, it shows you where you are in the virtual desktop grid, so your brain can situate the relative positions of the desktops. Or maybe it's the fact that when you switch to the "bird-eye" view the current desktop zooms out into its position into the grid? Again, it's useful, for much the same reasons, it provides the sense of a seamless giant virtual desktop.
The Beryl cube, while looking neat and out of an Hollywood movie, is pretty much useless, especially when you have more than 4 virtual desktops. The perspective effect in the Wall plugin is also pretty much useless IMHO.
"Who the ***** cares if it's a clone? They come up with a ton of innovative ideas and you cry because they cloned expose?"
Who's up in arm here? Who looks like he's gonna cry? You.
I just said it was a clone, I didn't say it was a rip-off, and I didn't cry about it, I think it's nice that people using Beryl can enjoy an Exposé clone. I just think Apple should get credit when it deserves it. The fact that it was stated as a Beryl innovation without any mention of Exposé prompted me to add the comment.
"And what the ***** do you mean everything was inspired by OSX? The "spaces clone" was probably in development long before Apple had their conference and showed off Leopard."
Ok maybe I made a mistake in my phrasing, let me try again: Most of the really useful eye-candy I'VE SEEN in Beryl is the one that's heavily "inspired" by OS X. If anyone can provide examples of innovative eye-candy brought in Beryl that wasn't in OS X (or Leopard) I'll be happy to know about it.
Thanks prammy about the "enlightenment pager", I didn't know about it (it's not well known it seems, google only returns 650 hits). I thought Spaces was the first to show dragging of live windows between miniaturized virtual desktops.
And just a question (to you prammy, not the f-word-using angry guy), can you use the Beryl Exposé clone in combination with the Beryl Wall plugin? If so, when you drag exposed windows between desktops, does it rearranges the tiling automatically like it does in Spaces? - jrieth50, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@thcobbs - While I can certainly understand a comment on past Digg stories on Beryl showing off flaming windows and all sorts of annoying knick-knacks - what part of highly manageable multiple desktop environment strikes you as not productive? Indeed, there IS eye-candy associated with it if you consider a simple, understated transition eyecandy... What would you prefer it to do? Blank the screen for 3 seconds and then show you all your desktops for bird-eye management? Just so you don't have to have all your friends laugh at you for having "eye-candy"? I don't get some people.
- KungFuJesus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@curunir
XGL only supports 1 monitor.
AIGLX, however, supports multiple monitors. It doesn't work correctly with the proprietary ATI drivers however. - hcore, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1it is very hard to build from source and make it work.
- augied, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0For those who get offended by Beryl "cloning" spaces:
http://insitu.lri.fr/metisse/screenshots/ - DelMonte, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Can mom and pop install a completed binary version of the Wall plugin on Beryl now?
From the linked article:
Februrary 8: "Keep in mind this plugin isn’t done yet, so some things are still in broken/proof of concept form. When the plugin is in a release you can expect that to more or less be its final form. Until then, it’s still fluid." - pejeno, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1@twtmc
As crexor says, Beryl has NOTHING to do with tvout. You have to config Xorg/Xfree86 properly. It took me a lot but I finally made my ATI Radeon 9200 SE to work at least in clone mode and the cube looks nice in my TV.
A pain in the ass thanks to ATI and its poor support (I'm using open source drivers, not the proprietary ones) but doable nonetheless. I've heard its easier with Nvidia.
Don't spread FUD that way please. - zleilndka, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0This works very similar to this (mouse cursor doesn't show up in screenshots):
http://www.imagehosting.com/show.php/238342_part1.png
http://www.imagehosting.com/show.php/238370_part2.jpg
Hover your mouse cursor over the mini windows in the mini desktops, drag and drop from any of the desktops. No special effects, easily understood =p.
~The Imagehosting symbols covers the mini desktops and had to use jpg format cause png was too big for the 2nd one for some reason O.o. The png one looks so much better. - mostapha, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1I haven't used Beryl yet but I have to say I love the guys at Beryl. It seem like they're working *really* fast, and from these videos, they're sure doing an amazing job at it.
- scratched, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1@captaineuphoria
That was my whole point. - Dean129, on 10/12/2007, -4/+4Looks pretty sweet. Can't wait to get my linux box up and running again.
- thcobbs, on 10/12/2007, -10/+10Just as a point of reference, there comes a point when eye-candy for the sake of eye-candy becomes counterproductive. It becomes distracting and makes the user less productive. Computers look cool now and do some fun stuff, but if all this eye-candy doesn't start adding to the productivity of the user, it's worthless.
- prammy, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1@captaineuphoria
I'm sorry, I know people who will absolutely not switch to firefox because it is different. Its sad but its true. And its not older generations either. Some of them are still on IE6 (illegal copy of Windows) and makes my work doing sites even more difficult because I have to apply all the IE css hacks. Hell I would be happy if they just switched to IE7. - curunir, on 10/12/2007, -5/+2@crexor
How about some pointers on getting this to work. I'm unable to do anything but single monitor with beryl under Xgl. It paints a screen on the other monitor, but it just sits there - there does not seem to be any way to interact with it.
Frankly, from my experience with beryl, I would describe it exactly the way I describe Vista - very pretty, but mostly useless. - DCstewieG, on 10/12/2007, -5/+1I think this may be Slashdot people coming over to Digg. Digg has become much more pro-Linux anti-Windows as of late. Maybe it's just me. We sure don't need a post every time a new Beryl plugin comes out.
- DelMonte, on 10/12/2007, -10/+1"I'd have to say that the most productivity-enhancing feature on Beryl is the one that creates a showcase of mini versions of all the windows that I have open on one screen and allows me to select and focus on the one I want without digging through them."
You mean the Mac OS X Exposé clone? Nice to see that you enjoy Apple's ideas.
I know I'll get dugg down for this "smug" statement in this pro-Beryl thread, but let's call a cat a cat, it is an Exposé clone... Most of the really useful eye-candy in Beryl is the one that's heavily "inspired" by OS X. This Wall plug-in is another example, it's useful, and it's an OS X Leopard Spaces clone, with useless 3d perspective added in. - scratched, on 10/12/2007, -13/+3If you want proof that linux will not take over windows, look at firefox vs IE
Firefox is clearly superior to IE6 in essentially every way, and yet firefox never managed to gain a majority market share over IE.
Firefox is just another web browser, it's not hard to make the switch. You can switch without worrying if your computer can handle it. If you look at linux, sure it is better than windows in a lot of ways, but it also is not well known enough to gain corporate support and the average person is clueless when it comes to the fact that other operating systems exist. If it doesn't come in a computer that you can buy from a major company then there is no chance. -
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