What is Digg?232 Comments
- renegadeafk, on 12/24/2008, -4/+78I agree with most, but the gaming myth is more or less true, yes it "can" play games but the game library is very small and using wine/cadega often causes many problems and is nowhere near the experience of running the game on it's native platform. Telling n00bs they can switch to linux and play all their games will just make them jaded when they find out that's not true.
- jvincent08, on 12/24/2008, -4/+32"But the second something has to be installed or updated... or anything similar, the terminal gets opened."
Both yum and apt have GUI frontends.
In fact, I can't even think of a single absolutely necessary tool that is only available in the CLI. Even all sorts of administration can be done in the GUI nowadays. - PHJames88, on 12/24/2008, -2/+23This has nothing to do with the distro or Linux in general and almost everything to do with the developer. They're the ones who don't develop with open standards or Linux in mind.
Until they start developing for Linux on a wider scale you're not going to be able to play them without third party apps, if at all. - JoelJ, on 12/24/2008, -14/+34Having been using Ubuntu for several months now, I have yet to figure out how one can use Linux without touching the terminal. Maybe if all you're doing is surfing the web and using OpenOffice, sure, I can see that. But the second something has to be installed or updated... or anything similar, the terminal gets opened.
Some games run rather well. Warcraft III runs in wine PERFECTLY without any tweaking. But that's the only game I've had that much luck with. Warcraft II opens in a tiny corner of the screen. Which was disappointing because Vista doesn't have IPX support anymore, so I was hoping that it would work in Linux so I could play this classic via LAN. - acmethunder, on 12/24/2008, -5/+24The only one that has any real credit is gaming on a Linux box.
Sounds like you have not used Linux (or OpenOffice) for more than a few minutes. - takatoo, on 12/24/2008, -7/+23this is just another OS warbait
- PHJames88, on 12/25/2008, -0/+16No one is stopping you from using the GUI, but that is much more complicated than what is essentially a two step process (open terminal, copy and paste command).
Example:
Command Line:
Applications -> Terminal -> sudo apt-get install (program) (password) (Maybe a yes/no question) -> Done.
Synaptic (GUI):
System -> Administration -> Synaptic -> Password -> Search package -> Check package(s) -> Click install
Both come out to the same conclusion, but the GUI is slower to get to and the directions are far more complicated than a simple copy and paste command.
Also, Ubuntu and other systems with apt-like systems are miles ahead of Windows in terms of an an easy to use, all-in-one install interface, whether you use the command line or not.
It's much harder to have to go to 5+ sites to download programs to setup your computer than having a single interface which downloads and installs all your programs. - secrity, on 12/25/2008, -0/+15It is MUCH easier to list a set of CLI commands than to give instructions regarding the use of a GUI.
CLI commands can usually just be scraped and pasted rather than having to search through menus or options. - coldkill3r, on 12/25/2008, -0/+15Well you don't really *need* the terminal to install programs, it's just a simple, unified way to issue instructions on the internet.
- inactive, on 12/24/2008, -2/+16One of the most elitist of all distros, gentoo, has one of the most friendly communitys out of any distro, OS, software.
- kyoobeh, on 12/24/2008, -1/+14the only reason i am not using linux at this point is my own laziness.
i fail :\ - lemur, on 12/25/2008, -2/+15The real problem is that not enough blame gets put on game developers. Gamers complain about games not running on Linux constantly, but they complain to the Linux community, which doesn't make any sense. If they all just took their complaints to game developers, then they'd probably get what they want--games on Linux.
It takes work for studios to port games from one platform to another, but not as much work as you think. Thanks to compatibility libraries such as winelib, it's even more ridiculously easy to port from Windows to Linux than it is to any other platform. Many excellent proprietary programs are guilty of using winelib, including practically all of Google's Linux apps and Opera (I do believe). - rowjimmy, on 12/24/2008, -2/+151) & 2) aren't really true as of the past 5 some years.
3) the file system makes complete sense if you understand it. if you don't, it doesn't matter so long as you use a package manager (yum, apt-get, etc) to manage your programs. - PullingTeeth, on 12/24/2008, -3/+15Ubuntu has a really friendly community, not only on the discussion boards but also on IRC.
- Codename, on 12/24/2008, -3/+15Most people are usually just worried about lack of support, that is the main thing. There are support forums and what not, but for new users sometimes that is just not enough to convince them to actually go and use Linux.
- SuperMoses, on 12/25/2008, -0/+12"It's much harder to have to go to 5+ sites to download programs to setup your computer than having a single interface which downloads and installs all your programs."
+ And updates your programs. Just wanted to add that. - feignNU, on 12/25/2008, -1/+13God, at least you can admit the true reason. I mean, I really don't give two ***** what you use, but I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for not blaming *linux* for why you don't use linux.
- depro9, on 12/24/2008, -4/+16Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. Face you fear install Linux & be free.
- SuperMoses, on 12/25/2008, -1/+12Old computer? Why not laptop. That's what I did and since then I've been fully converted. I only used my laptop to surf the net and do occasional word processing work. So I installed Ubuntu on it since it was a safe bet it could handle those basic functions. Once I got used to Ubuntu and the Gnome desktop, there were no problems in converting my desktop to Ubuntu. No more worrying about having an outdated OS. I upgraded from 8.04 to 8.10 without any problems.
Main reason for change? Didn't want to upgrade from XP to Vista. - grungegbunny, on 12/24/2008, -1/+11Apps are hella easy to find and install on Ubuntu linux where have you been? Add/Remove or Synaptic package manager makes it very simple. All you have to do is search for what you want and click OK to install easier than on windows actually AND the cool part is the Ubuntu update will check all installed packages against the repositories for updates so it lets you know when an upgrade is ready. Lets see win do that.
- inactive, on 12/25/2008, -1/+11The good thing about those support forums is that i generally dont get some guy named "Frank" whom i can barely understand. That is one thing that pisses me off about dell and microsoft.
- feignNU, on 12/25/2008, -1/+11Except that you're not really right. First of all, application management (like updating a program) is *so much easier* in linux than either windows or OS X. It's just done very differently, and, *gasp*, you actually have to learn how it works in order to use it effectively.
I would say, in fact, that probably everything you think is a "workaround" or "arcane" is actually a result of you trying to use linux like you would use windows. But let's be honest: there is a difference between having to do "workarounds" and just not knowing how to use the system.
If you don't want to learn how Linux works, that's fine by me, but don't go complaining about how arcane and complicated it is to do simple things when you clearly don't know what you're doing. - rowjimmy, on 12/24/2008, -5/+15whoever wrote this article doesn't seem to understand the difference between linux (the kernel), gnome/kde (the desktop environment), and a specific distro.
- smotpoker, on 12/24/2008, -0/+9"And I haven't figured out how you would use Linux without using the shell. You just have to sometimes."
Depends on what you are trying to do. For the average/novice user, there is almost always a GUI alternative (despite many docs referencing the shell so that they would be applicable to the most platforms).
For the tasks most people perform on their systems there is no need to access the shell. Probably 80-90% of all users could install and run Linux for years without ever touching it (though proper use would make a lot of their tasks quicker/easier). - inactive, on 12/24/2008, -5/+14There's no graphical user interface in Linux. You must learn programming in C/C++ to use it. And since Google refuse to release their source code, you are toast. This mean no domain names under Linux, you have to remember the IP address for each of your favorite websites.
- Codename, on 12/25/2008, -1/+9Haha yeah, from my experience Linux has really good support, through forums and some of the more popular distros even offer phone support.
- jumboshrimp11, on 12/25/2008, -1/+9It depends completely on what you want to do with your operating system... If you wish to do everyday things like surf the web, word process, check your email, listen to music, then you will never have any need to have any encounter with the terminal.
- madfrogurt, on 12/24/2008, -15/+23The most telling thing about all these myths is that they're all based upon a very real truth. Yes there are workarounds to many problems for features that people take for granted (like updating a program), but the problem remains that you still have to go through many loops and tweak arcane settings to get simple things done. This is the chief hurdle for why a free program still isn't competitive against a very expensive program.
- JohnFlux, on 12/24/2008, -1/+9Sylenus, the higher the demand there is for linux, the more companies will hire linux developers to write linux drivers. So you're creating an economy that way by using linux.
- ashgtx, on 12/25/2008, -1/+9Linux isn't Windows. Linux isn't trying to to be Windows.
It's just a different but more efficient and better way of doing things. - nuclearwasted, on 12/24/2008, -3/+11Completely disagree.
You're exaggerating the small amount of homework that is necessary before posting. Lurk the forums, see what kind of information is provided when asking a question. Search the forums for keywords that pertain to your problem and most importantly, read the FAQ's and Forum rules, understand and follow them.
IMHO that's not too terribly much to ask of someone who is about to ask something of you. - jsffive, on 12/25/2008, -0/+8Why do I need to use a proprietary music format? MP3 is my choice. Therefore, iTunes has no appeal for me.
I personally like installing my software from repositories. It's far easier than dealing with cd keys. Because I keep my data on a separate partition, if I were so inclined, I could do a wipe and reload in in about an hour and a half, and that includes all my program settings.
dpkg --get-selections >newfilename
and after I reinstall the OS,,
dpkg --set-selections <myselections
and I'm done.
It's FAR easier than trying to rebuild a windows system. - inactive, on 12/24/2008, -4/+12Honestly if it wasn't t for my gaming need, I would probably use Ubuntu or something similar. Even though it is techincally possible, it still wont game without a lot of screwing around first, and even then it still might be impossible.
For Average Joe User however, Windows remains the most hand holding of all OS's. Though I am not afraid to crack open a command line or edit some config files to get things running, that kind of dinking around is not something average people want to do. They just want a system that works and takes care of itself for the most part without any BS between them and the application they want to run.
I might get dugg down for this but I think most linux users are tinkerers at heart, and are willing to play with it to get things to work right. - Krissam, on 12/24/2008, -0/+7I believe the problem is so when people ask for help, they're often told to fix it using a few commands, because the gurus who really understand the problem know how to use the cli, and in 9/10 cases, it's so much easier to do so
- ethana2, on 12/25/2008, -0/+7My mother, grandmother, and little sister get along fine without the terminal, so I'm pretty sure you're, well, wrong.
- grungegbunny, on 12/24/2008, -2/+9Good list of myths I hope it inspires people to at least burn a live CD and give a distro of linux a test run.
- sigmaman2, on 12/24/2008, -0/+7DON'T USE .TAR.GZ FILES!!!
Ubuntu uses .deb files for installation. Unless you are trying to install a very exotic program, you should be able to find a deb file for it.
Even so, all you have to do is go under the Applications menu and choose Add/Remove Programs, then search for the name or type of program you want. It'll be downloaded and installed automatically for you. - inactive, on 12/25/2008, -1/+8The seasons don't fear the penguin, nor do the wind, the sun or the rain! We can be like they are!
- Lebrun, on 12/24/2008, -1/+7Or MacOS, for neither that or Windows have package managers.
- inactive, on 12/25/2008, -1/+7Sylenus
Lots of people do enjoy reverse engineering and writing drivers in their spare time. I write programs for myself in my spare time for fun. It is about what i enjoy doing, not what you tell me to enjoy doing. - ethana2, on 12/25/2008, -0/+6The solution is to properly detect your screen resolution.
Ubuntu works well for me because when it doesn't, I complain to Launchpad instead of Digg.
Try it sometime. - ccaazz, on 12/25/2008, -9/+14thing about linux is, and this comes from my experience of using ubuntu, that you can do simple tasks requiring pre installed programs easily enough, but when it comes to installing new programs etc, i can guarantee you if u look at the ubuntu forums, the first thing other users will tell u to do is hop onto the terminal to enter in some strange commands.
I got dugg down a few articles ago for posting a similar comment, but what i am saying is true! If installing programs is so easy, then why do i remember there being whole page long tutorials for you to follow to install basic programs (i remember the joy i had trying to get an osx like dock to work), thats not my definition of easy to install programs, linux is years behind in terms of how much it uses the command line compared to its competitors.
All in all, until use of the command line becomes rarely needed, i suggest that ordinary users keep fearing the penguin. Also im sure im going to have a comeback comment about how the command line is so much more efficient for power users etc, but thats just missing the point, which is that ordinary users have no wish to use the command line, be it more efficient or not. Also as for debs, more often than not i found that they did not work or had problems installing, you can't possibly compare that to running an exe on a windows machine. - feignNU, on 12/25/2008, -0/+5No one's shoving anything down anyone's throat. The article was just trying to dispel some myths and misunderstandings about linux.
You're right though, it isn't "just like" every other operating system. It requires some learning. If you aren't willing to learn how it works, you shouldn't try using linux. If you'd rather your computer be a "black box" that you don't really understand and can only really use in very specific and limited ways, then stick with windows or OS X. If you'd prefer to actually understand your computer and be able to utilise it as a tool that can do anything you can imagine, then look into linux. - feignNU, on 12/25/2008, -1/+6Yeah I mean this article clearly wasn't written by a linux guru. I mean for christ's sake, he advocated doing a *google search* to find linux apps before he even mentioned the package manager (which he thinks is called "Get Deb", for some very odd reason).
- feignNU, on 12/25/2008, -0/+5Screen resolution can easily be changed using an X-windows config tool. If for some reason that didn't work, though, you could've used a graphical text editor to edit the file. The terminal is really not necessary, even though it is better.
- Guspaz, on 12/25/2008, -0/+5Sorry, that's wrong.
WC3 can run decently under WINE, providing you make the following tweaks/concessions:
1) Run it in OpenGL mode (a commandline switch for WC3), otherwise performance is crap (I get 3x the speed in OpenGL mode).
2) Don't alt-tab or let it lose focus (in GL mode). At best it will lose all textures, at worst it will crash
3) Battle.NET support is iffy due to poor AcceptEx support, although I understand this has been improved recently
4) Videos run extremely slowly and should probably be disabled by removing them
All these issues are well documented either in WINE bugs or on the WINE AppDB.
I don't call that "runs in wine PERFECTLY without any tweaking". I call it "Can be made to run decently with some caveats". - sethpr, on 12/25/2008, -0/+5Here's the thing.... For basic normal day to day usage there are graphical tools in the three principal OSes, now for advanced configuration or setting up, you have to use commands (or other text based system like a registry editor). Most people don't realize this because their main OS has been pre-installed in their machine.
If you install Linux by yourself, you will need to use a command here and there for config, but if you install Windows by yourself, same deal, try to update a group policy at machine level with a GUI, there is non! Try to make Windows use a UTC system clock, you can only at registry level. Try to install Mac OS X on a non default system, you can but you need some darwin (BSD) commands to get the system to fully use some devices...
It is not a valid point to say that Linux is not ready because you need to use a CLI. - feignNU, on 12/25/2008, -0/+5System -> Preferences -> Screen Resolution
that's the tool that does it in the latest Ubuntu. It's pretty easy to find if you can spend 20 seconds looking. In the event of failure, a google search would surely have told you. And as for a graphical text editor...Ubuntu comes with OpenOffice, so even if you had to use THAT to edit the file, I'd say that's far from "obscure."
Have you considered that the reason you got this answer is because, well, it's the right answer? If you're just going to bitch and moan about how hard linux is, and how average you are, then don't ***** use it. But seriously, if you have half a brain, and are willing to learn something new, it really isn't that difficult.
Don't expect it to be spoon-fed to you, and don't expect to be able to use linux without *learning* something. That's just not what it's about. If you want a mysterious black box that "just works", go back to windows or osx.
I know it's convenient for you to pretend that everyone who successfully uses Linux is somehow not a "normal" user, but I'm sorry, this isn't the case. You *can* learn how to use it, and if you do, you *will* understand why it's so much better. If you're prepared to give it an honest try, there is a whole internet full of people willing to help you, but if you're just going to half-ass it and complain about how "normal" people like yourself don't have time to learn anything so difficult, you should expect dismissive responses, at best. Just saying. - d9d9, on 12/24/2008, -0/+5You can use ANY font in linux actually. Even these that visible in photoshop only under windows.
To install "tahoma" there is msttcorefonts package. - inactive, on 12/25/2008, -0/+5Outside of the odd "emerge --sync && emerge --update world" i rarely touch the terminal, even for configuration. I thikn even portage is getting decent front ends now. I dont know what configuration many are talking about that you *REQUIRE* a terminal to do...
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