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73 Comments
- Looking4TiffB, on 10/12/2007, -4/+32I prefer dumbed down interfaces, they don't get in the way of doing things. My car has a dumbed down interface, and so does my cell phone. I just want to use it not screw around with it.
- Protoss, on 10/12/2007, -1/+27Ubuntu is Linux with a user-friendly coating. I can tweak it to my liking, yet it is usable out of the box.
- pbaehr, on 10/12/2007, -1/+19@Looking4TiffB:
I agree. Just like a mechanic who knows more about cars than you can go under the hood and get his hands dirty, Ubuntu still has the same powerful Linux tools behind the scenes backing it up. Intermediate and advanced users can do things their way and new users can do things the Ubuntu way. Easy to use does not mean it's been dumbed down or less powerful than a hard to use distro. - dharm, on 10/12/2007, -9/+23"I just want to use it not screw around with it."
very true. thats ubuntu's main purpose.
If you want something that works, easy to use, easy to setup, and a good alternative to windows, get ubuntu
but, if you want to really learn about linux and its extremes (not just looking for an alternative to windows) try something else.
i fall into the second category, and i can see that ubuntu does what it is supposed todo pretty good - mo0o0ocow, on 10/12/2007, -2/+15After nearly two years of using Gentoo, which is definitely NOT dumbed down, I am happily switching to Ubuntu. Linux, as any operating system, is a tool. You are supposed to be using the tool; the tool is not supposed to be using you. In short, I got tired of trying to wrangle my system into working (networking breaking at every kernel upgrade...LAMP breaking...), and the extra effort required by Gentoo was something I just didn't have time for, especially since it would seem that the extra effort required to compile everything did not signifcantly improve performance. (Ubuntu is REALLY fast compared to my Gentoo install.)
Tools are supposed to make life easier and more efficient, and while I definitely got my fill of under the hood experience, it's nice to use something that just _works_. - hardatheist, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14Wow this guide has the best screenshots so far. I still hadn't seen the partitioner before this. Good job, looks beautiful.
- cazabam, on 10/12/2007, -4/+16ah, the old 'my opinion of the entire thing rests on its ability to configure a single piece of hardware' line.
"Nothing but trouble, this Ubuntu! Sure, it's easy to install, and sure getting apps and updates is easy. Oh, yeah, SURE you get a whole load bundled for free, and yeah I know that it's easy to navigate and includes some pretty advanced functionality. But it doesn't support MY wireless card, dammit! If it can't do that ONE LITTLE THING then the entire system must be crap."
Did I ever tell you about the pain I had trying to get WinXP to recognise my Buffalo wireless card and NOT crash on startup .. ? - notromda, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9I've used Linux for a long time. I've used Redhat, Suse, Slackware, and sveral other obscure ones... but I've always hated Debian because of some abrasive attitudes in that community and also because a default Debian install (stable) was unfriendly and seriously out of date. I'm not sure if I ever got into the development version of Debian or not.
Ubuntu has taken all the rough edges off of that experience. It's great having a liveCD that can then install. I had been using XP on this machine and wasn't really prepared to install linux on it yet; too much important stuff in XP.
However, Ubuntu was able to resize an ntfs partition and install all from the LiveCD. The manual partitioning, which is usually the hardest and most dangerous part of a custom install, was so simple I could even tell someone how to do it over the phone.
And while it was installing, I was still able to surf the net - which also reduces the pain of having a computer down for installation.
The dumbed down interface is great for new people coming on board, and if you need to do something more complicated, the config files are there as usual.
I'm impressed. I'm now running a Debian based system, even though I still don't like Debian. Thankfully, I can hang out with the more civilized Ubuntu folks. :) - jer2eydevil88, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9I just tried Dapper out on a server and laptop and I am VERY impressed!
I often tossed Linux up to the more technical people who had years of free time to master updating all the components but with 6.06 of Ubuntu all the updating is automatic and the installation of new programs is as simple as "sudo apt-get install myapp" - GreatBunzinni, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Indeed Protoss has it right. Ubuntu isn't "dumbed down" or limited. Ubuntu is very tweakable (as tweakable as Debian) but it has the great advantage of having everything working right out of the box.
- waterandfood, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8Although I see why the installation process is kept simple, Ubuntu gives no options when installing Grub... this is bad.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8Ubuntu ISN'T the easiest to setup and install to date.
SimplyMEPIS has been the easiest to install since 2003 (it's installer has been around since then on its liveCD) and PCLinuxOS comes into a close second with its installer which has been around since its inception.
Nothing is easier than SimplyMEPIS. It may not have the the polish of Ubuntu as a distro but its installer kicks the crap out of anything. And the MEPIS control panel is bliss compared to most things. One click installs of graphics drivers...nothing can beat that...you highlight nvidia or ati, click approval, the driver installs. Easy.
It's really disheartening when people just throw out terms like, "best installer" or "quickest distro out there" and they haven't tried all the installers (those mentioned above) nor all the quickest distros (see VectorLinux).
If I speak about something, I generally make sure that what I'm saying is justified with merit instead of loosly tossing coin phrases around like Triple H at a backyard barbeque. - arizonagroove, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7"ah, the old 'my opinion of the entire thing rests on its ability to configure a single piece of hardware' line."
Yeah I can use that to say that Windows XP is total crap.
I have a D-Link Bluetooth USB Dongle. I use it to move pictures and mp3s between my phone and my computer.
If I plug the dongle in to a machine running Dapper Drake it is detected and ready to use in in a couple of seconds.
If I plug it in to a Mac then it is detected and ready to use in a couple of seconds.
If I plug it in to a machine running Windows XP SP2 then it gets detected and apparently set up but then doesn't actually work. Apparently the problem is the bluetooth drivers in SP2 don't work with that dongle but Windows insists on using them. Supposedly there's some method of forcing Windows to use the correct drivers supplied by D-Link. I gave up after a few hours. - mckinnej, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7@mo0o0ocow
Ooooo...boy, are the fanboys ever going to flame you! :)
Good, objective feedback on Gentoo. I've attempted the install a few times, but never got it to fly. Like you, I don't have time to constantly tweak a system to keep it going, so I went in another direction. (Currently using PCLinuxOS, which is Mandriva based. So far it's pretty sweet.) - zoltanthebold, on 10/12/2007, -6/+12this is like what, the tenth time someone has posted an article ... it's getting old.
No actually, it's getting popular (and I'm a Windows user in case I'm accused of bias). Isn't this the point of user-centric publishing mediums like Digg? Namely it should reflect what's happening.
Despite being a Windows user I think it's a good thing - the awareness of Ubuntu I mean. With Vista lurching along to a 2007 release, and MacOS a good while away (and shrouded in secrecy) it's good to see new things happening in OS-land.
It's also useful info even for Windows and MacOS users. After all we are paying good money for software that people like Ubuntu offer for free, and very much pitch at the same audience.
If that kind of thing isn't newsworthy, and worth checking out, then what is? - ModernTenshi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6I sort of blogged about this last night. I got Dapper up and running on a 5 year old laptop, after trying several other distro's that just didn't seem to want to play nicely enough. I liked Dapper because it installed easily, and the documentation was written so that even a total Linux n00b like me could easily understand it. But I found myself sitting there the other night, thinking, "is this it?" Pretty much everything I could do on my newly setup Linux machine, I could do on my Windows machine right next to it. All I've been using it for is to check email and chat with friends on Gaim while watching a video on my Windows machine next to it (the Windows machine has a better screen and speakers on it). I like Ubuntu so far, since it's made getting into Linux very easy, but I think it may have made it a bit too easy, at least a lot easier than I thought it would have been. I basically don't see too much of a difference, other than a slick new UI and the fact I got it all for free.
I don't feel 1337 . . . . - eMpi, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6No, actually this is a good thing about Ubuntu. The average Windows user should not deal with grub in their first experience with Linux. They don't even know what grub is ... Let alone what to do with it.
I've installed Windows plenty of time, and can't even remember what the bootloader in Windows is called. Oh wait, mbr isn't it?
I'm an above average, but definitely not techie, computer user, and was totally excited by the Ubuntu installation. I would not hesitate any moment to recommend Ubuntu to anybody, including my sister who barely know how to get online :P
Ubuntu Drapper is definitely THE Linux breakthrough to convince average Windows users to switch away from Win! Yes, there are still some issues with Ubuntu and it still needs better hardware support. But all thing has its beginning. - FuManchu, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Both Breezy & Dapper have flawlessly detected my intel 2200BG wireless and auto-configured it to give me network and internet access before the OS installation process was even finished. [I live in a rural area and don't bother with WEP or WPA --I just have my USR router filter devices by MAC address]
I needed two hours to get the same wireless connection working under WinXP, even with the HW manufacturer's "connectivity" software ostensibly designed to do it painlessly.
I'm willing to grant that there is hardware that Ubuntu might not handle, but my experience is that installing Dapper --including automatic hardware config-- compared to installing Windows is like a wet dream compared to a minor nightmare. - libervisco, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5@PJBonoVox: "Just because you advertise something till people are sick doesn't make it popular."
Doesn't Microsoft advertise Windows till we're sick of it? They spend billions of dollars at making people believe that their product is something that it isn't. This "brainwashing" even includes FUD campaigns such as the "get the facts" campaign (more like "get the FUD").
That advertising comes from one convicted greedy monopolist corporation. This advertising comes from the people, the public, all of us who found some value in GNU/Linux and Ubuntu. This story among other Ubuntu stories was voted up by those people. Noone payed Digg.com to bring them up.
It is the people power at work, quite frankly.
So instead of bashing it, either respectfuly walk away (as you are free to do) or join us..
Thank you
Danijel - bloodylip, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5My Intel wireless card in my three week old laptop was recognized as soon as my Ubuntu LiveInstallCD booted up. In fact, Intel cards are very widely supported throughout the Linux kernel.
- ketsugi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Dapper Drake is about 8 months newer than Breezy Badger and contains much more up-to-date software.
- macluvjay, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5"and the installation of new programs is as simple as "sudo apt-get install myapp""
That has been the Debian way for quite some time. I do agree, however, that Ubuntu is the easiest to setup and use Linux Distro to date. Sure, I had to futz around to get my Airport Extreme working on my G4 iBook, but thanks to the wonderful Ubuntu community, I now have a few nice little launchers for scripts that get me onto the various WEP/WPA encrypted networks that I need to be on from time to time. Not to mention that I'm now more familiar with the whole process and WHY things are. IMHO, the Ubuntu community plays a major part in making the distro so great. There are so many helpful people on the ubuntforums. No flamers and whatnot. You can almost always find the answer you're looking for in a previous post or get a quick response by posting your own question. I still dual boot Dapper/Tiger, but that's hard not to do on an iBook. - chrizzler, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5@7of7
Support for wifi cards under Linux is not good.. but everyone knows that. So what are you complaining about? Tell me something new. - macluvjay, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@zefer
Dapper is the name given to the current version (6.06) of Ubuntu. Just like Red Hat and Suse have different versions. Each new version adds components that were previously unavailable like a newer kernel, packages, etc. Ubuntu updates on a 6 month release cycle (except for Dapper). The next one (Edgy Eft) will be out in 6/10/06 (version 6.10) - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Slackware really won me over with its ease of administration...don't know what you're talking about with Ubuntu. If you "used slack for years" then you wouldn't care much about an Ubuntu Server distro because while it is easy to install and use, it's crap for performance and administration compared to Slackware. Slack can kick the crap out of Ubuntu as a server hands down. Why? Speed and Simplicity.
SPEED: it's not i386. Ubuntu is slow whether people want to believe it or not...try Vector and Slack if you don't think so. I got my Slack machine booting up in about 10-15 seconds with minimal messing...try to do that with Ubuntu and it breaks. Believe me I've tried
SIMPLICITY: Need to get something running at startup with Ubuntu? Have fun! Slackware? Easy..rc.local in /etc. Done! Need to install a package? You can use slapt-get, swaret, or the built in package manager. Remember that slackware included a package manager before there was package management...before all the rpms and debs. It's simple to install packages...and with slapt-get and swaret, dependencies are a thing of the past.
If you think it's easy to administer Ubuntu...try getting mod_ntlm installed in apache on Ubuntu. Then install it on Slackware. That's right, it doesn't compile on Ubuntu. Good luck, I like my servers to be able to compile things without hassle because any true server admin compiles all their stuff from scratch because they want EVERY last ounce of performance to be squeezed from their apps. - diecastbeatdown, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3@mo0o0ocow
i think gentoo is only difficult to those who have a hard time dealing with the toolsets they are given. most gentooers are quite happy and don't complain about such things. they are mostly contributors and put their efforts into fixing things they feel are broken or need tweaking and give back to the community.
I've been a gentoo user since 2004 and love it. i have recently installed ubuntu on a production server and enjoy using it as well. it is debian with more support and a larger user base.
network devices and other misc things being broken via kernel updates are due to not copying over the .config into the source dir first to maintain your configuration.
this is not a flame, I'm in support of all linux systems. I'm a computer user and systems admin so all OSes are welcome (yes, all). - FuManchu, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Actually, I agree.
Other Linux distros have installers that ask if you want to install GRUB at all, or whether to install it to the MBR or just to the /boot partition --some even offer installation to a floppy. With certain multi-boot configurations, you might want the flexibility.
If you're just installing it on a machine where Ubuntu is the only OS, it doesn't matter, I guess. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I have used most of the major distributions over the years. Slackware was my running favorite for a long time (still is for certain jobs). Ubuntu has really won me over with it's ease of administration (namely the server version).
- 343GuiltySpark, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I've never been able to fully switch to linux, but I've been experimenting with Ubuntu since it's first release. I was always very impressed with the simplicity - and don't flame me, but I find it the most Mac-like (e.g., uses sudoer accounts by default instead of a root).
I installed Dapper yesterday. Very clean. Ubuntu is by far the best mainstream linux candidate I've personally used. - libervisco, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Hey hey, I used Slackware for quite a while and I am now using Arch for months and love it. I do like Ubuntu and I appreciate it doing what it is meant to do well, and so I wrote a review from that point of view, but Arch is really the distro for me. ;)
Cheers
Danijel - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5I only got 35 diggs for my riveting commentary on installing Windows XP :(
http://digg.com/software/How_to_install_Windows_XP_a_mouse,_keyboard,_video_drivers,_network_etc - aThing, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2That's strange. Why did this story get to the front page but when it was submitted by the author at http://digg.com/linux_unix/Experiencing_Ubuntu_Dapper_6.06_(step_by_step_with_screenshots) it didn't? Did he submit it when there weren't so many people on or something?
- shakin, on 10/12/2007, -4/+6Because almost nobody installs Windows whereas every Ubuntu system needs to have it installed.
However, a beginner will have an easier time installing Ubuntu than Windows. - Anchoret, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Anyone who thinks Ubuntu is "dumbed down" has obviously never tried to get wireless working with modern security features.
Incredibly, 6.06 is actually _worse_ than 5.10 for WPA/WPA2 support! - mo0o0ocow, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3@ diecastbeatdown
No, my networking problems were NOT due to not copying over my .config file before recompiling the kernel. If I hadn't done that, I would have had even more problems (my particular laptop didn't even work properly until 2.6.15 due to very weird hardware that I didn't have a choice about). I don't know how exactly you can claim to diagnose my networking problems without even knowing what _chipsets_ I have. (I have two computers with wireless; on my laptop I used madwifi for the atheros chipset and ndiswrapper on my desktop for the broadcom chipset.)
Gentoo is a great distro, and the documentation and forums are great. However, my computers are nothing special. No quad-core processors or anything super fancy, so a pre-compiled binary works just as well or better than something compiled from source.
Gentoo is not so great for people who are very busy and don't have time to maintain their systems as is necessary. I'm an engineering student, and I don't have time to deal with emerging world weekly and checking use flags and all of that, with my studies and the rest of my life. I wound up being swamped with 200 packages at a time to compile when I did finally get around to it, and that took _days_. And one wrong keystroke in an etc-update can screw LOTS of things up.
I got around massive compiling on my server (650 mhz Cyrix III!) by running a cronjob to automate emerging world daily--and then when Gentoo decided to completely rework the way Apache, PHP, and MySQL are handled, my server obviously broke. I could never get it working again, despite re-emerges and etc-updates, so I switched to Ubuntu. And now my server is running happily in my basement. :)
In summary, find the distro that is right for you, and then running it should be enjoyable, not a hassle. :) - MrViklund, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Bandwidth Limit Exceeded...
Haha ^^ - macluvjay, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3SimplyMEPIS is currently based on Ubuntu and is only available for X86 architecture. Ubuntu is available in many different flavors. I'll give you that MEPIS has been around for longer, but Ubuntu still comes out ahead.
DDP Bitches!!!! - davidepaula, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1digg.com is the best website killer. I love it :)
- libervisco, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1We should be back up soon! I apologize for this set back.
- FuManchu, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Ubuntu code-names it's releases:
The first was Warty Warthog, the next was Hoary Hedgehog.
Then last Autumn came Breezy Badger, version 5.10.
Version 6.06 -- [released 2006 in month 6] is named Dapper Drake.
Other than the cutesy alliteration, there doesn't seem to be any alphabetic sense to any of the names. But I have heard a few people refer to the next upcoming version as something like "Edible Eft." That certainly preserves an alphabetic continuity, but I'm not sure it's an official Canonical codename.
Personally, I'd call it "Extraterrestrial Emu." If "Dapper Drake" can "take to flight" then the next release ought to be an ever bigger bird that's "out of this world!"
Is that calmly informative, yet fanboi-ish enuff to suit all audiences? - macluvjay, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2@FuManchu
I see your point, but I'm confident that anyone with a multi-boot setup could do that on their own. I think simplicity is a major component behind Dapper, and that is why this feature has been left out. - libervisco, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Nuxified.org is back up. You can now read the story normally. :)
Again, I am very sorry that this downtime happened. I suppose I have badly underestimated the power of digg.com. ;)
Thank you
Danijel - topcataj, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1User friendly my arse. Get a GUI for setting up dual screens for gods sake.
I'm off to try another distro. - Stelmate, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2I've been using ubuntu since it started (threw away my windows partition after the breezy release) and I still think it has a ways to go. For instance, it had problems detecting many older printers that I threw at it. Also, modem support is still not up to par. You have to look at the fact that the main consumers that will be targeted for linux would be those who cannot afford windows. I have built a fair amount of computers for people around linux and usually perfer Suse (SUPER distro, not the slow commercial crap) over ubuntu (I did however use Xubuntu for one of my friends computers with a 500mhz PIII, which works great I might add).
The good thing about ubuntu (Kubuntu whatever) is that it simplifies the usability while maintaining the core system underneath. In a nice way it reminds me of the old windows 3.1 where I still had the power with the Dos shell. No matter how *easy* and *usable* ubuntu is the core system will always be there for tweakers and people who like to get their hands dirty. If people feel that the install is to easy they can always try gentoo :). - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Agreed...it's not there at all yet. Other distros may lack in certain areas (for example, cosmetic) but they are light years ahead of Ubuntu.
- pabster, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@cazabam
Well of course one could pick out problem pieces of hardware on EITHER platform. The thing is, which one is easier to resolve. And which one has more trouble with hardware in general? I think we both know the answers to these questions. - macluvjay, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1edit: Eft will be out in Octuber of '06 - 6.10
- Durrok, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3This was submitted only one other time 2 hrs after this story was submitted and was not front paged. Here is an idea: You remember those other ubuntu stories you didn't read? Probably should have done the same thing with this one. Then again from the sounds of it you probably posted some asinine comment on the other ones as well.
If you are not interested in the story just MOVE ON. - zefer, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2forgive my ignorance but what is the difference between the Dapper Drake and Breezy Badger versions of Ubuntu? Are there any other versions?
- libervisco, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Those who want to read the review can now do so here: http://www.libervis.com/temp-nuxified/ubuntu-dapper-experience.html
It is just temporary until the bandwidth issue is resolved.
Thank you
Danijel -
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