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- Phocion55, on 10/11/2007, -10/+72"In essence, we decided to innovate, not litigate."
Read that sentence a few times, Microsoft. - JNando, on 10/11/2007, -8/+63Nice response hope Ballmer can read :-)
- mori2001, on 10/11/2007, -3/+34Brave man -- how many F500 CEO's admit their companies mistakes like this?
- Narwaffle, on 10/11/2007, -3/+33Alternatively, I think that's all the proof we need *to* listen to them.
- Hoov, on 10/11/2007, -4/+32Why is everyone always harping on Java? It may not be the do all end all language, but it's pretty damn versatile.
- arjie, on 10/11/2007, -3/+28And it's open!
- Trister0, on 10/11/2007, -3/+23Ahem, Riaa and Mpaa. Listen up too!
- sams2100, on 10/11/2007, -3/+23@narwaffle: agreed! I dont see microsoft doing anything new and I dont see them open sourcing anything they copied from other companies either.
- SVPirate, on 10/11/2007, -2/+22Microsoft litigate because they are functionally incapable of innovating becuase of the way they work. Schwartz is right, the only way out is to think your way out. Their anti-FOSS outburst is desperation in extremis...
- jtp51, on 10/11/2007, -4/+20You're a fool.
- jasz, on 10/11/2007, -0/+16that was (IMHO) the best line in Jonathan's post...
- asaone, on 10/11/2007, -3/+17Smart man, hope someone will read it to Ballmer
- sinatosk, on 10/11/2007, -9/+23fkr3 said "Listen to the customers you're threatening to sue?
Since when are linux users Microsoft customers?"
since when some Linux users like myself use both Windows and Linux and ontop of that some user Mac OSX - ElectricSoup, on 10/11/2007, -4/+18"You would be wise to listen to the customers you're threatening to sue ..."
They're highly unlikely to sue. The threat itself is what it's really about -- Roughly Drafted has this right:
"If Microsoft had any ideas to protect, it would simply lay them out and insist that Linux and other FOSS projects stop using them improperly. Instead, Microsoft is keeping its patent details a secret, while working to generate panicked headlines about the dangers inherent in using open source software.
"Microsoft doesn’t want results, it wants to incite a climate of fear."
http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/RDM.Tech.Q2.07/878F362F-2BF5-4C86-84E7-9C976F7BDDD4.html
Linus has just said the same:
"... 'they're probably happier with the FUD [fear, uncertainty, doubt] than with any lawsuit,' Torvalds predicted."
http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=199600443 - segaze, on 10/11/2007, -2/+16Oi! fkr3 you should realize that all customers are potentially Microsoft's customers. By suing those potential customers Microsoft is guaranteeing that they will never come back. Suns approach was to innovate, and by not suing everyone you don't see sun getting hate spam like we all see Microsoft getting day to day.
- ict4ngo, on 10/11/2007, -1/+12I remember a saying from my last boss (probably basic chinese philosophy)
"If your enemy does a mistake don't tell him" - JQP123, on 10/11/2007, -0/+8"Saying that the Linux kernel was mostly complete before windows was so much as a twinkle in Bill's eye."
Windows 1.0 was released in 1985. The first version of the Linux kernel was released in 1991. - xspinkickx, on 10/11/2007, -0/+7yeah I do not get why every one keeps picking on java, yeah the memory management kinda sucks, and java apps tend to hog your ram, but every release has been getting better, and of course the big plus is something written in java can run, in windows, linux, osx, bsd, and anything else with a jre.
- ilgaz, on 10/11/2007, -2/+8It is also a nice writing for newbie Linux/Ubuntu people who doesn't know what would have happened if Sun really crashed. They love to attack Sun for some reason.
Even on OS X Leopard (10.5), there will be dtrace and Mac OS coders will make use of it in unimaginable ways for good of end user. It won't change the fact that dtrace is a Sun thing and we should be thankful to them for offering their technology for free in competing operating systems. - inactive, on 10/11/2007, -3/+9The Microsoft use of patents on Linux has a deeper overtone. The Linux kernel is scale-able. This allows it to be used in clusters. At the moment anyone can build a Linux cluster for any application using off the shelf components. The growth industry is in movie and graphics manipulation and parallel processing in mainframes. Project yourself five years into the future. One of the mainframe manufacturer's has decided to release a motherboard the size of a CD-ROM case. On the motherboard is a CPU, memory, a Linux boot bios and a high speed daisy chain serial port. The CPU heat sink contains an L bracket which can be bolted to a cooling heat sink. Picture a 1000 cluster built inside a cabinet the size of a domestic refrigerator and using refrigerator cooling. That is one mean computer. Put 10 of them side by side and you have a relatively affordable supercomputer. Give users creative access to that computer to design an animation movie. Market that movie through retail channels and you have a potential of generating billions of dollars at relatively low production costs. No wonder Microsoft is using patents to stop Linux. You can afford to give away the operating system because the real income is in creativity. Large computer corporations have probably seen the light and the dollars. With open source software if a problem occurs, there will be someone somewhere on the planet that has replicated the problem and found the solution at no cost to the computer companies. It is a win win situation. Give away the software and market a person’s creative services.
- Novagenesis, on 10/11/2007, -3/+9@AlexFerny
Do tell.
Microsoft itself doesn't solely use MS software OSes. Their routers and back-end are not solely Windows-based, or at least weren't last I looked. - xspinkickx, on 10/11/2007, -1/+7@ilgaz
do not forget that sun also worked with apple in porting the sun's zfs filesystem to mac osx, and is rumored to be in leopard. - Herolint, on 10/11/2007, -0/+5To me, the most brilliant wisdom shared in this article is, "Remember, they wouldn't be motivated unless your products were somehow missing the mark."
How I wish it were possible to pound that wisdom into the heads of those at Microsoft, the RIAA, MPAA, etc., who want to litigate to protect an archaic business model rather than create a compelling product.
I have used Linux since 1994. It's a great OS and it is all free. However, in spite of how great Linux is, I still purchased a MacBook Pro about 2 months ago. Yes, it was quite expensive, but Apple hit the mark with me so I'm willing to pay. If Microsoft could hit the mark, I'd use their products again too. Microsoft's problem isn't that Linux is infringing their patents, it is that their software simply isn't good enough, or compelling enough, for me to want to buy it.
I'm not saying their software is crap, but when OpenOffice does 95% of what I want from an office suite, for example, I'm more inclined to alter my computing habits a bit than fork over hundreds of dollars for MS Office and Windows to run it on. Microsoft needs to make their stuff compelling so people will want to buy it instead of going with cheaper alternatives. It certainly worked for Apple; at least as far as I'm concerned. - petepete, on 10/11/2007, -4/+9"now account for in excess of 25% of all lines of code within your average Linux distribution"
Even Jonathan Schwartz admits that OO.o is bloated :) - kildurin, on 10/11/2007, -0/+5Sun actually is innovating. ZFS and Dtrace are examples. And, they are patent free. Would M$ ever release NTFS even as old as it is to the Open Source community?
- ilgaz, on 10/11/2007, -1/+6Java. Go check download.com and versiontracker.com top 10 lists, you will notice some Java destop apps. I hope you/people aren't forgetting the fact that OpenOffice is Staroffice source donated to opensource community.
If we speak about devices, servers, Java is far more essential feature of them.
If we speak about Solaris, whatever Sun says, it is still an ultra secure/reliable/modern (kernel wise) workstation environment suits to Science,Military professional high end multimedia more than home users. - williamdyer, on 10/11/2007, -2/+7billg was, at least, a demanding technologist. XP didn't suck, compared to other stuff available when it came out. People stood in line all night to get it.
The 40M Vistas includes all the OEM copies that get deleted to install Linux or XP, and all the enterprise customers that have site licenses, whether or not those licenses are installed. - slapthemonkey, on 10/11/2007, -1/+6Sun is moving in the right direction...
- ilgaz, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4Sun servers also run Windows 2003 in some environments such as pure ASP/.NET.
MS is not Sun's "enemy", it is far more complicated in server scene. Everyone is everyones enemy and friend same time or something. - isosceles, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4Really, now who would you rather work for?
- ilgaz, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4They want their new buddy Novell seem to make actual success by their lame patent deal to look nice to their shareholders while every admin in enterprise looking ways to switch to some other enterprise Linux (Redhat) which isn't sold out to MSFT.
I was trying so hard not to write this basic fact as a previous Novell fan (Netware ages) but sadly it is the truth. Novell could be the new MS Virus in Linux scene along with their new employee who ports every MSFT evil agenda technology to Linux. - Spuy767, on 10/11/2007, -2/+6I agree that Ballmer is a meathead, but MS isn't being run any differently now than it was, it's just that the frontman is more apelike.
- ilgaz, on 10/11/2007, -2/+6If we use the lame term like Web 2.0, this guy is Fortune 500 CEO 2.0. Not just posting a real blog written by himself, he even offers free comments under his entries.
- dogfurnace, on 10/11/2007, -1/+4pantsbandit: Not really sure what you mean by that statement, Java is installed on millions of desktops the world over. And if by desktop you mean your favorite Linux distro, as the article states: "Our contributions, from Java to OpenOffice to Gnome and Mozilla, now account for in excess of 25% of all lines of code within your average Linux distribution".
- SVPirate, on 10/11/2007, -1/+4Not many, but it's one of the most popular Server OSs around, including a good lot of what is running the internet, a good lot of banks, and large corporations.
- prammy, on 10/11/2007, -2/+5@jqp123:
Just because the software is given away, does not mean that the developer does not get paid. In many cases of free software, this does end up being the case, but for stuff like the linux kernel, apache, samba, php, people do get paid to work on these things. The company paying them to work on these things charge for services rendered. For example, Red Hat does charge for their support service even though RHEL in essence (through source rpms) is freely available, they charge for the updates and professional services. And they pay their developers to work on Gnome, the linux kernel etc which are given away for no cost, and usable by everyone including the competition.
Noone is suggesting that developers always work for free. That would be unfair. What I gather from his post is the company's services and creativity in using the freely available software to do amazing things makes the money which pays the salaries of the developers as well. Which is fine, since it forces vendors to actually provide some value in their services. :-) - nirvanix, on 10/11/2007, -1/+4I guess people are moving to Ubuntu instead of Vista, hence the threats. There is just no level that the megalomaniac and his bald-headed henchman won't stoop to apparently.
- BlackAdderIII, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3"""I was trying so hard not to write this basic fact as a previous Novell fan (Netware ages) but sadly it is the truth."""
You and me both - that's one company that's left its core support (old and new) dumbfounded. - BobOki, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3I got out of that article, "We were forced to change, and did. Glad we did it!" That says two things, one it was NOT their idea, two they were smart enough to listen. When one fails as long as they listen, they will still win.
- GMorgan, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2Because when everyone was using C/C++ there were never any problems with memory leaks. Wait a minute. Idiot programmers have gone from blanking references without deallocating to not blanking references at all. Same problem different time period, lets not make this an issue of false superiority. I learned C/C++, Pascal, x86 ASM and a bunch of other languages before Java. I prefer to use Java because it is a more productive language and is efficient under high load, I don't care how much memory it wastes when the system isn't doing anything since it isn't relevant. Idle resources are a waste by definition, thank god we finally have systems that will utilise those resources under low load rather than ignore them.
Any drop in standards is nothing to do with Java though. There are much easier languages out there. If ease of use was the only consideration they'd use Python or one of the other scripting languages that move compile time errors to run time. I'd actually say that people code better now when they actually undertake some form of education than they did when they went into a job straight out of compulsory education. - Chandon, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2That's an excellent basic strategy, but the trick with rules of thumb like that is that very skilled people know when to break them. In this case, it's entirely possible that the correct strategy is "When your enemy makes a mistake, tell everyone about it".
- Anonyblessed, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$ M$
- GMorgan, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2Java is the most used language on the planet by a large distance and the memory management problems are perception over reality. It's been shown multiple times that GC actually saves clock cycles by stacking up memory and making thousands of deallocations at once, this way you need only call most of the routines once instead of once per deallocation. Also it only wastes memory under low load (for the same reason, lazy deallocation), this is disastrous of course because that memory sitting idle isn't being wasted at all. When under high load the JVM will scale back memory usage nicely.
Of course the exception to all this is Azureus where they use SWT without deallocating the unmanaged code properly. This seems to be solved recently though. - Nok1, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2Quite well written open letter, and I agree.
I can tell you all firsthand that Microsoft encourages its programmers to use "whatever environment they feel comfortable in", and "whichever one they feel that they will be most productive in" - SVPirate, on 10/11/2007, -4/+6I'm very impressed. Trust J.S. to sum it up perfectly. Hear, hear, John.
- JQP123, on 10/11/2007, -2/+4@prammy
"After all without someone developing the software, it does not really matter how great the services division will be if they don't have any software to service."
You shift seamlessly back and forth between Open Source and proprietary views as it suits your argument. With Open Source, everyone gets the software that you develop, even competitors providing the same services as you. Where's the incentive to develop in this situation?
"Red Hat makes most of its money from services, yet they pay a lot of developers to work on code which is provided under a free license."
Yes, and Oracle is starting to exploit this by servicing the code that Red Hat develops. Doesn't seem quite fair does it? If Oracle succeeds, Red Hat will have less money. Wonder what they'll cut back on to compensate? My guess --- development.
Again, any way you look at it, it's a win win situation for everyone *except* developers. - JQP123, on 10/11/2007, -4/+6"It is a win win situation. Give away the software and market a person’s creative services."
It's the same old story; everyone wins *except* the software developer. Try as you might, it's hard to logically justify why everyone else deserves to be paid except the guy who writes the code. What makes the developer's effort less valuable than the graphic artist or animator? - GMorgan, on 10/11/2007, -1/+2Sun aren't over run by management. When you heard company x has 1 manager for every 3 people involved in actual work which company was company x. That's right, it was MS. QED.
- GMorgan, on 10/11/2007, -1/+2No one can really disagree that Sun ***** up. They used to call them 'the dot in .com'. Then they never adapted after the .com crash. They were right to assume that the web would recover but they missed the part where they placed themselves to benefit from that.
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