What is Digg?52 Comments
- shakin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+73This sounds like a perfect compromise. The decision to use proprietary drivers has always been in the hands of end-users. The primary problem that creates is that driver installation can be difficult. By simplifying the installation I don't think it compromises free software any more than just allowing them to be compiled. What it does is bring the choice to a wider range of users and Linux is all about choice.
- timf, on 10/12/2007, -2/+23I totally agree. In my opinion this same logic should be applied to more areas.
Often an argument to not implement a certain feature is that the user shouldn't do something in the first place. While that may be right in certain cases, in the end it should always the users choice.
And the duty of software should be serving the user and not hindering him because the developers think that the feature is "bad". - baalzebub, on 10/12/2007, -0/+17thats exactly what i was hoping for, an On/Off switch for proprietary drivers...
- timf, on 10/12/2007, -0/+14The package is called restricted-manager.
Install it through synaptic - stalefries, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14You missed the worst step: mucking around in your xorg.conf
- diggapleaze, on 10/12/2007, -3/+14you know what this app is missing? Integration with "Add/Remove" (aka gnome-app-install), synaptic, and the "hardware information" menu entry under Administration. And it ought to be installed by default in Feisty. And finally, it ought to be integrated with the "Desktop Effects" dialogue; when you click to enable the effects, the restricted-manager should pop up with the correct driver selected for install and a user prompt. That would be fantastic.
I think you're absolutely right that this is the perfect compromise. Even if you disagree with distros making moral decisions for you either way, I think EVERYONE agrees that a distro shouldn't go out of their way to make something difficult that is deemed "unethical" as a means of deterrent.
Once a person has a made a decision, it should be two clicks away just like everything else in the OS. - stalefries, on 10/12/2007, -5/+15I'm really getting sick of schestowitz's stupid junk he puts around all his quotes. He's getting to be bot-like in his posts, just randomly posting "relevant" links and quotes for all the Linux/Unix articles. That's why I'm blocking him.
- diggapleaze, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9well I'll be damned. It works! Glad to see that Desktop effects is just two clicks away!
Well, that is, if this hardware manager is installed by default in Feisty. - milas, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6The control center is still there, just not enabled by default.
It was actually GNOME's decision to postpone it, it'll be default in the next release of GNOME (and therefore Feisty +1).
You can reenable it with Alacarte. - defrysk, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7A nice control center like Feisty was going to have, but unfortunately was abandoned, will hopefully be available in Feisty+1 with this easy activate option included. Fingers crossed.
- Chandon, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Ubuntuguide and Automatix - No, no, and blech.
There is real documentation, on the Ubuntu website, that walks you through *all* of the stuff that random 3rd party tools / sites cover. It has one giant advantage - it doesn't break your stuff, and it doesn't get old when a new release comes out.
Check out help.ubuntu.com/community first. - oobuntu, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6@schestowitz
i think they are complaining because you seem to pad out a one liner into a 20 liner with all the white space and ------padding-------, i don't think the complaint is about the actual content - Shananra, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Assuming your hardware can support the game itself, it runs just as well with beryl as without, in my experience anyway.
- trogdoor, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Broadcom cards are all supported with open source drivers, if you need anything it's firware, which you can get with fwcutter.
- thtroyer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Your points would turn Linux into something it isn't:
'- embrace proprietary drivers'
Some distros, I believe, have done this. However, if all distros did this, it would certainly impede 1) freedom of choice and 2) development of decent alternatives
'- use a unified software install method (with a unified package management database and the ability to install stand alone sofware)'
Why? I'm sure some package managers could use some work, but to call for them to unite and do the same thing is ridiculous. Debian's apt-get and Gentoo's emerge have conflicting ideals, the former installing binaries and the latter downloading and compiling from source.
'KDE and Gnome need to look and feel the same, with everything in the same place (then the user can change things depending on what he/she wants)'
Again, why? Are you going to call out fluxbox, Xfce, and others to do this too? Desktop environments should not be changed on a whim to 'look like each other'. Their default layout defines them, and KDE/Gnome really isn't that hard to figure out anyway. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6I'm glad that it is now easy for people to install hardware drivers, but the one problem that this presents is that now hardware vendors will be even more reluctant to open-source their drivers, and developers will be more reluctant to code new drivers.
With fewer people complaining about lack of hardware support, people won't care as much, and will think the problem has been 'solved.' - Fordi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4@diggapleaze:
The problem with adding anything proprietary is that Add/Remove is basically a pretty front for apt-get, with filters for what's best for Ubuntu. That means that anything integrated with it has to be hosted on Ubuntu's servers.
Now, if, for example, these companies had dpkg repositories for their drivers, life would be MUCH simpler for Debian-tree users.
Compromise: there is a way to run a script from a .deb that will do the download/installation for you. This is a pain in the ass, but that makes it theoretically possible to have a 'Master Package' that just detects and installs the appropriate proprietary drivers for your system. - GMorgan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4@Fordi
The drivers are in the Ubuntu repos, they are even on the install disc though aren't installed as default AFAIK. - raindogmx, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I don't see a problem when propietary drivers are a choice to open ones. I'm glad Ubuntu got rid of nonsense complications in such an elegant way.
- davidrools, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6i agree with iamacitizen. I definitely prefer the menu. I actually switch the control panel to be a menu when using Windows. Hopefully there will be an option to keep using the menu instead of a control panel-like interface. Menus are faster!
- baalzebub, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3you try the vesa driver?
- aburd, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4So does this allow me to install drivers from... um... say... a broadcom wifi card driver? Will this help to install one of those?
- Stonekeeper, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I don't understand. Why is it listing both ATI *and* NVIDIA drivers? I don't want a list of all drivers, just those it's detected hardware for! I guess an advanced button for all drivers, just incase detection failed for whatever reason? Also, I'd make it update itself via the web, for when new drivers come out.
EDIT: BTW, this new driver manager is better than the current situation. - timf, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Because my locale is german. Normally when I write a blog post I switch to English locale but this time I forgot because the application wasn't translated anyway, except for the stock button.
- Urusai, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3All you had to do before was enable the restricted repositories, and they showed up in Synaptic. How hard was that? This seems worse.
- pizpot, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2QUESTION:
Can you play warcraft with performance after installing compiz or beryl? My opengl went choppy and I had to back out. I mean those jiggly window games are fun but so is warcraft. - redxii, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1If you like watching paint dry.
- diggapleaze, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2I wonder if there is really a need for envy now?
- diggapleaze, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Hmm I've done a dist-upgrade on my feisty box and I don't see this anywhere at all. Anyone know where to find it?
- inactive, on 12/26/2008, -3/+4I didn't block him yet, just so I can digg him down every I see his face in the comments :).
- trogdoor, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4Why is the "cancel" button in this screenshot in German ( Abbrechen )?
http://bp2.blogger.com/_JvDB-G93rcY/Re2VKO8zf0I/AAAAAAAAACo/LP18OF3oLwk/s1600-h/Bildschirmfoto-restricted-manager.png - adila01, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1This is amazing news, with the easy installation of properietary drivers and the inclusion of CNR, I believe Linux is on the verge to being acceptable by the masses not just us highly computer literate individuals. I hope that the problem of peripheral drivers and video games will be solved in due time, thus making Linux a suitable contender to Microsoft.
- Chandon, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2If you actually followed the directions, you never had to muck about with any config files. The big problem is that when people ask how to do stuff on forums, the people who know which config file to edit are super fast to tell everyone about it - but they probably have no idea about any graphical tools / simple way of doing it.
The big thing that everyone misses in Ubuntu is the "real" documentation at http://help.ubuntu.com - expanded at http://help.ubuntu.com/community with all the stuff that people really want to do. Go there first, resort to doing stuff by hand / with some random 3rd-party guide or script last. - ETSlinux, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1This is awesome news. Really good news. I can't wait to get Feisty Fawn when it comes out. It is going to be awesome.
- Ademan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I think there were originally compatibility issues concerning wine+beryl/compiz but they have since been resolved(that's my understanding). When i originally tried cs:s+beryl i got choppy performance as you did, but later on i couldn't notice the difference (different versions of both wine and beryl, and even my video driver iirc)
Also if you play fullscreen there is a beryl option that is "unredirect fullscreen windows" which SHOULD offer a performance improvement for fullscreen games.
cheers
-Dan - diggapleaze, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2well that's why Shuttleworth wanted to include proprietary graphics drivers by default.
- pHr34kY, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1I like the idea, but I would still stick to the FOSS 'nv' driver because the proprietary nvidia legacy driver causes my screen to lock up every 10 minutes or so. Tried and proven: two different machines, 3 different cards, same problem.
It's just annoying because if it were open source someone would have fixed it by now. Maybe NVidia are forcing me to upgrade by shifting my drivers to the legacy package and making it crash. - teddyjones, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Adding the restricted-manager package is really great!
- NX910a, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0This will make both the free software union strike forces and other users of Ubuntu happy.
They should go even further with this...they should have an install option similar to gnewsense for users who are into completely free software, and install option for proprietary software for people who don't mind having that on their system. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3Why was milas digg down? He is telling the truth.
Anyways, I didn't like the control center. It seemed more to imitate Windows' control panel rather than create the best user-experience. - diggapleaze, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1@Fordi
I hear what you're saying, but remember that nvidia's and ati's drivers are already available in the Add/Remove menu. I say, why not take it a step further and integrate the entire restricted-menu? They both use a checkbox-style interface, I don't think it would be too hard to do. Just add an extra category at the bottom of the categories list called "Restricted Drivers" and allow the user to add, for example, a proprietary wireless chipset driver.
And you have to admit that it would be damn slick to automagically prompt the user to install the proprietary graphics drivers if he/she clicks on "Enable" in Desktop Effects :) - redxii, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2"Together with the graphical frontends to Beryl and Compiz this will make the activation and experience of the 3D desktop very pleasant."
Without the proprietary nVidia driver, my particular laptop won't see any graphical frontend. The nv driver only produces "No screens found" attempting to start X. Yay for convincing people to switch. - PsyWolf, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0i can't wait to try out this feature, but i'm waiting till its stable.
- Vektuz, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1Still stupid. It should present the option during install - I mean, its a no-brainer for most average users... do you want your system to actually work with games and stuff or not?
- PatrickBrown, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0This depends more on your video card than anything else. In particular, it depends on whether you are running beryl/compiz on AIGLX (which at the moment is limited to open source drivers or nvidia drivers because of ATI) or XGL (which you are definitely using if you are using proprietary ATI drivers). You have likely had problems under XGL.
However, even under XGL you can run your games without problems (assuming you have followed any of the numerous tutorials on the net) with: DISPLAY=:0 whatevercommand . For example, DISPLAY=:0 wine game.exe - pizpot, on 10/12/2007, -4/+0OK, I just installed ubuntu or xubuntu on 6 computers. (duron, 3 athonxp, athon64, g3 imac). I can now recommend 6.10 as its temporary repository problems are gone.
1. install ubuntu
2. visit ubuntuguide.org and look how to install Automatix2 and do it.
3. it expands your repositories, and installs things better than if you followed ubuntuguide and did it all manually.
PS, 64 ubuntu sucked sort of as things like flash or mplayer were not wanting to work. Apparently 32 bit linux works fine for amd64 oh well live and learn. - liquidcable, on 10/12/2007, -5/+0About "fing" time!!!
I love Linux, but the Linux distros and community do some very dumb things (from a non-tech aspect). For Linux to work for the general public these things need to happen :
- embrace proprietary drivers
- use a unified software install method (with a unified package management database and the ability to install stand alone sofware)
- KDE and Gnome need to look and feel the same, with everything in the same place (then the user can change things depending on what he/she wants)
- font rendering needs to as good a Windows and Mac OS X (current rendering looks good if a screen is >95 dpi, looks like crap if less) - schestowitz, on 10/12/2007, -9/+3Yes, because inane one-liners are so much better than an actual technical discussion. [rolls eyes]
- aristotle0dude, on 10/12/2007, -10/+1Enough! Open source drivers are proprietary too because they only work with one gfx chipset or chipset family. These are closed source binary drivers.
It's a little tiring to see the FOS movement bastardizing words like proprietary and freedom. - LogicallyGenius, on 10/12/2007, -12/+1pleas digg this link , there is a Govt. conspiracy to Bury this http://digg.com/offbeat_news/Navy_Researching_Vomit_Beam_Point_shoot_and_ralph
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