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51 Comments
- underdog5004, on 10/12/2007, -3/+33Oh yeah, Novell's fighting all right...fighting like the prison bitch who has already got his front teeth knocked out and is laying on the bunk with a bunch of vaseline on his...er...
...basically, Novell's not fighting at all...
...in case you missed the metaphor.... - demonsofgoetia, on 10/12/2007, -5/+24Ubuntu Linux ships for free and works for me:
https://shipit.ubuntu.com/
No Novell products for me, just like no Microsoft products for me, thanks. - schestowitz, on 10/12/2007, -7/+20So why did they take down everything that argued against the other side of the fence?
http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20061119163021490
"I remember when Novell knew what Microsoft was all about. Remember their webpage, Unbending the Truth: Things Microsoft Hopes You Won’t Notice, answering Microsoft’s Get the Facts campaign? Try going there now. Poof. Redirects you to some pablum about Novell’s SUSE being better than all other Linux distributions." - thegreyfox, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13Novell CEO: Right after we make sweet love to MS!
- bmartin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11Linux workstations and Red Hat Enterprise servers (where necessary)!
- Alfdog, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11"We're going to fight Vista" - translation- "Buy our Linux services and products"
- ipodman, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10Novell: "WE'LL FIGHT TO THE DEATH!"
Microsoft (and everyone else on planet earth): You're already dead. - k0rd, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11Man ***** Novell just give SuSE back to the germans, you're ruining the name.
- bmartin, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9For personal use, Ubuntu is great. Red Hat Enterprise may be more suitable than Ubuntu for large businesses.
@shuffle: What's your problem? Such an ego-centric response. - Erowid, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8Yeah... 'cuz I'm sure they were talking about netware when they said they were going to "...fight Windows on the desktop..." :/
- trghpy, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8Isn't Novell a division of Microsoft?
Oh, that happens next year... Never mind. - GMorgan, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Not in this case. MS has all the market share, it is a zero sum game in many respects. Novell has to hurt MS to gain ground.
- SpoBo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7At this point everyone is fighting Microsoft. So tell us something that's new.
- bmartin, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6It's a bunch of hype to try to showcase Novell as the company to go to for Linux solutions if you don't want to get sued... because MS has been very successful in suing other Linux vendors [/sarcasm]. Unfortunately, it has worked for them (or so they claim); businesses have bought into the idea that they're now "safe from being prosecuted" if they use Novell's product.
MS isn't going to sue Novell's customers; if anything, they're going to sue Novell directly, and their agreement doesn't protect them from that (those lucky shareholders). SUSE is a great product, but this was a very shady marketing move. - ahhell, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Good luck with that Novell. How's that NetWare working out for you?
- noddyxoi, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Wanna fight MS ? release EVERYTHING under GPL3.
- KevinJim, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5What the ***** is wrong with Novell ? When you make a decision AND sign a contract you have to accept the consequences, once an ***** always an *****..., i just DON'T like any software made by m$ or any distro controlled by Novell or the Sun's Solaris. Debian / Ubuntu and Gentoo work's just great !
- CircleFusion, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Big ***** elephant
Middle of room - Dracos, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Any other Linux company (RedHat, IBM, Canonical, Linspire, even Corel) can say "We're fighting Microsoft" and I'd believe them... but not Novell.
- GMorgan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4At least these companies are actually fighting MS rather than sitting back and bemoaning their incompetence in the late 80's and early 90's.
- datastorageguy, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7"We're going to attack [Microsoft] vigorously and go after their footprint as much as we can"
He ought to be careful of what he says here, this can be legally construed as predatory business practices (not that MS isn't guilty of this as well) - baalzebub, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6Novell should not have made their deal with MS, the nut case @ Novell that made that deal does not know what side the bread is buttered on, the GNU/Linux community was behind Novell 100% until the deal was made between Novell & MS, now Novell will find they are left out in the cold all alone...
- gregdigg, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3You mean like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5oGaZIKYvo - shockingbird, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5Well good luck with aaaaaaaalll that.
- GMorgan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Canonical do offer support contracts for Ubuntu. The main advantage Ubuntu gives is all their employees can install it at home for free.
- ronaldb, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3@trghpy:
Desmond, is that you, brother? - jmacdonagh, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2trghpy has superhero powers.
- GMorgan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Of course MS are going to claim it has worked for them. Group think is a powerful thing, if one bunch of idiots do something you can usually be sure the other idiots will follow. If MS can give an aura of 'this is working' then it means more corporations will jump on board.
- arbulus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Ubuntu is a fantastic product, I have it on 2 computers at home. But I think that the venomous fans are going to give it a bad name. Damnit, shoving your fave OS on the masses isn't going to work. Be kind and talk about it when it comes up in conversation, but don't ram it down people's throat. That's just going to make people not want to use it.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1 I also believe RedHat,, Canonical, and Linspire will fight Microsoft as long as they can. It's way too late for Novell, however.
And i just bet five or six years from now Microsoft will have Novell for breakfast and they will be assimilated. - mypenis, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3You can "fight" Microsoft by not really paying attention to them.
- crex, on 10/12/2007, -5/+6I think Vista will enjoy slow sales at first, but over time pick it up. Thanks to Windows XP SP2 the business IT world has a fairly secure and stable OS we are comfotable with. Most IT people I know seem to be going with wait until Vista SP1 or SP2 and upgrade after the security holes have been plugged.
When some of the Vista vaporware shows up (WinFS, etc) or Microsot inserts some other killer app then I think we'll see a shift to Vista. But right now I figure XP has at least two years of life left in it. - GMorgan, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Actually I don't think that's true just that the critics are louder than the silent majority. Most I speak to are taking a wait and see approach. I still think Novell has out flanked MS (who in reality gain almost nothing from the deal). If they pull it off right it will be a brilliant move. Novell still produce mountains of good OSS technology and even if I felt the MS deal was shady it still has to be taken in context with the amount of quality code coming from there.
- Inaeth, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Here's my wishful thinking:
Novell has learned from Microsoft. They will now use similar tactics against MS in order to consolidate their server footprint in large corporations, via the "Embrace and Extend" methodology that MS has used over and over in the past.
But, like I said, that is more than likely wishful thinking.
Also, for the nay-sayers who know little to nothing about large corporate data architectures, keep in mind one thing: industry workspace does not revolve around 'consumer' applications. They revolve around the ability to easily access and manipulate data in order to advance your current standing in the market place. The easier the data is to manipulate and view, the faster it is to bring workable models to the negotiation table. Whether if this is done on Irix, AIX, Linux, Solaris, Windows, or Mac, it makes no difference to the intelligent corporation, as long as it is scalable and easy to manage. The sad fact still remains that for these type of data chores Linux is the more viable option to a company's bottom line.
If Novell really wants to break Microsoft's hold on the corporate server space, then I would suggest that they come up with a replacement for Exchange. I would also suggest a complete rewrite of their Netware package to do this. (Yes, I know, that's a proposal that will cost millions to do. The payoff, though, will be in the billions if it is done right.) - arbulus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1GIMP has potential to be a good product, but until it can have native CMYK support, and you can actually work in a CMYK environment (not just export to CMYK), then it can never be an alternative to Photoshop.
Thought, Scribus is a pretty fair layout program. It might have a chance to tangle with InDesign, but if one has InDesign on their comp, then they usuall have the whole creative suite.
But really, I love open source and would use it for everything thing I do, but it's not the standard. Print shops want documents in specific formats and if you want to be sure that what you're doing is going to look good in that format, then you have to use the right program for it. Do i really trust GIMP to export a document to CMYK in PSD format? Hell no I don't.
But as for the idea of Novell buying out all of these open source companies - I'd rather they didn't. There's no need for it. - KevinJim, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Rehhat, Canonical yes, Linspire, Corel... nah
- BigBadger, on 10/12/2007, -7/+6How does Microvel plan to fight when it's gladly getting hate-***** from behind by Ms?
They need to shut the ***** up and realize their current unfortunate position. - TdiFFRob6876, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0A really simple anti-Novell comment. Novell Sucks
- newdamage1, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0@ Innatech
I going to have to disagree with ya, Netware + Zenworks is by far and wide the superior NOS. (compared to W2k3 Server). I've managed many large networks (15k-20k desktops 35k users) and doing that with MS would be such a large PITA, I am having a hard time fathoming it...
Oh, and IPX has been gone from Netware for several years, well at least from my networks... - CircleFusion, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0Who said anything about Novell buying out those open source companies?
Or do you mean Xara? - Innatech, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0Word Perfect used a stream-based file format, IIRC, with embedded codes. I think today you'd want to go with the kind of modular format that both Word and OpenOffice use (if I'm not mistaken.) Especially in the Linux world, where a file format composed of various subparts each adhering to a standard comprehensible to other programs is preferable as it affords you direct access to your data.
As to Groupwise---I've always had very shaky experiences with it. All in all, I prefer Exchange---and that's about the only MS product I would prefer from the whole suite of various roles and associated packages. - Innatech, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0Stop digging down the poor bastage just because he worked on the NetWare kernel. We all hate NetWare, IPX, and the horse it rode in on, but it isn't his fault.
Seriously, tho, good riddance to that nightmare OS. - CircleFusion, on 10/12/2007, -4/+2Novell - "we'll fight vista"
Then focus on applications.
Remember that survey that you asked the community to fill out about which applications are lacking from Linux?
[Gets on soapbox]
Corporate/Business : Microsoft applications are what cause people to stick with Windows. OpenOffice/StarOffice are not enough. Throw some developer talent at those projects, or make another office suite from scratch. Something. Where is Wordperfect? Is there a way to buy it back from Corel and then open source it? A lot of people liked Wordperfect.
Small business/Accounting : Quickbooks and office suite (see above).
Design : If another person mentions GIMP as an alterative to Photoshop, I'm going to shoot them. Adobe products (it's that simple) and I think I read a few times about Linux lacking in color management, but I'm not sure. Keep an eye on PixelImageEditor.com. Novell could buy out the software and continue its development. It's in the infant stages and it already looks like a Photoshop competitor. Also back Xara's alternative to illustrator which is going open source any day now, or buy out Xara if you can. They are a small company. There are multiple options to consider.
Home : Games. Games and a few media applications are what cause home users to stick with Windows. Invest some developer dollars on WINE and/or 3D acceleration with VM solutions (VMWare is supposedly working on some 3D acceleration technology). Though I think WINE is a more preferred solution because it does not require a Windows license.
On installation...
If there were awesome applications available on Linux, then people would accept the sometimes difficult (though improving) installation process of Linux. I think that is the key....applications. That is a higher priority than even driver support or easier setup. It's the "if you build it, they will come" theory. From a business or home user's perspective, it is all about what programs you can run on the computer. That drives the value of it. If there were key applications, then people would be interested in it because it offers a free (or cheaper, and more stable) alternative to Windows. MOST PEOPLE DO NOT INSTALL WINDOWS. They just buy the computer or pay someone to install Windows and then they use the applications. They care about the applications above all else.
On drivers...
People keep saying that the fact that ATI does not offer adequate Linux drivers is not the fault of any Linux distro. While that is technically true, I say that is not a good enough answer. It is like throwing up your hands and giving up. Form better partnerships with those who benefit from Linux succeeding on the desktop and use that to add pressure to hardware vendors: IBM, Redhat, Ubuntu, Google and many more. Yes, I said Google. They are losing some search revenue because Microsoft makes their own search the default search in their browser. Google would benefit heavily if Linux were successful on the desktop, because it makes the playing field fair. It takes away a serious advantage from Microsoft. Hell, get a petition signed of people that would buy ATI products if only there were better linux drivers. Do something. Don't just blame ATI. That accomplishes absolutely nothing. You have a problem (ATI), so now become a solution provider for that problem. Just because you are not the one who caused the problem does not mean that you can't be a driving force for a solution for that problem.
What if doctors said "Well, cancer is caused by your body. We can't control cancer. Blame your body on that one, pal. Don't look at us". Rather, they bend over backwards trying to find some way to solve the problem, even though they didn't create the problem. They try to coerce cancer to stop doing what it is doing.
I could go on, but I think my main points are made. I didn't get into an Exchange and outlook alternative. I think Novell already has a good start on a solution for that with Groupwise and Evolution.
[/soapbox] - silverbax, on 10/12/2007, -7/+5Not that I think Novell will have any success against Microsoft, but I do wonder if Vista will end up being the chink in the armor for Redmond. The word on the street is definitely 'don't upgrade to Vista', which can't be a good message for sales. Of course, Microsoft's biggest competitor isn't Mac or Linux, it's Windows XP.
- meshman, on 10/12/2007, -7/+4I've always known Novell as a company with a reliable networking product but so expensive few people actually ran it. I know people with certifications they spent thousands on that are completely useless. Consider Novell? No thanks.
- BryanUT, on 10/12/2007, -5/+1I used to work on that NetWare kernel amongst other things.
Getting laid off last year by Novell keeps looking better and better! WooHoo! - shrewduser, on 10/12/2007, -7/+3i believe it must have been part of the deal they made that novell would leave the mudslinging to other linux groups....
to be honest they probably still do some mud slinging surreptitiously. - Izacus, on 10/12/2007, -8/+2When a company has to resort to humiliation and *****-talk about their competitors, that just proves how ***** their own products actually are (Yes Apple, I'm looking at you too).
- schestowitz, on 10/12/2007, -17/+11> "...part of the deal they made..."
Will they also explain why only hours after Microsoft's settlements with Iowa, all the 'smoking gun' memos got removed (now password-protected)? I mean, some people have local copies, but I would like to have things like the following back online (with the court seal to validate authenticity):
,----[ Quote ]
| (Bill Gates:) One thing we have got to change is our strategy -- allowing Office
| documents to be rendered very well by OTHER PEOPLES BROWSERS is one of the
| most destructive things we could do to the company.
|
| We have to stop putting any effort into this and make sure that Office
| documents very well depends on PROPRIETARY IE capabilities.
|
| Anything else is suicide for our platform. This is a case where Office has
| to to destroy Windows.
`----
http://www.iowaconsumercase.org/011607/2000/PX02991.pdf - crex, on 10/12/2007, -8/+2The Novell I know is normally very stable, but also behind the times in terms of features. They add new features slower, but they work better. The price tag on all this is fairly steep though.
My big issue with Novell (its Windows client at least) is it does not play well with others. I have some users who need to use Novell to connect to one department's network drives and servers, but also need to log into another department's AFS and Windows network drives. Novell does in fact fight Windows, mostly by taking a tire iron to all non Novell services and beating them senseless with the client. We ended up having to write a script that brought Novell online, and then fired up all the Windows and AFS mappings. Novell amuses itself by randomly breaking this script.
As for running Novell's Linux it is seems much cheaper to get a Sat Server from Red Hat or another group and then spend a few afternoons tweaking your servers as needed. Then you have a nice setup that does not involve Novell's hands firmly gripping your balls.
Windows workstations and Linux servers!
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