What is Digg?110 Comments
- inactive, on 10/11/2007, -7/+35I would love to congratulate the moonlight team - but theres one problem...what the hell is silverlight?
I went to Microsoft's site to try and get an understanding of what this is and why we need it, and I have learned nothing (not unusual for Microsoft). In fact, here's how Microsoft explains silverlight:
"Microsoft® Silverlight™ is a cross-browser, cross-platform plug-in for delivering the next generation of .NET based media experiences and rich interactive applications for the Web. Silverlight offers a flexible programming model that supports AJAX, VB, C#, Python, and Ruby, and integrates with existing Web applications. Silverlight supports fast, cost-effective delivery of high-quality video to all major browsers running on the Mac OS or Windows."
Ok. Its new, its fast, its cost effective, its cross browser, cross platform, multi language, its.... uh...wtf is it?
And I guess if some people created an open source version of WTF, then, congrats.... i think... (where I work, we make WTFs all the time) - Felshadow, on 10/11/2007, -5/+32I don't understand why Microsoft wouldn't just develop for Linux? think about it...
Instead of trying to beat Linux into the ground...show their muscles as a software company and start producing software for Linux and more for Mac, they already have a monopoly on the operating system war, so leaking into other operating systems just to absorb that small niche....they would basically own everything. - howtogeek, on 10/11/2007, -7/+28Honestly, do you really want Microsoft distributing a closed-source implementation for Linux anyway? This was a much better option for Linux users.
...and Miguel de Icaza does not get enough credit. The things that he's accomplished with Mono are outstanding. - PiGuy, on 10/11/2007, -1/+16It's Microsoft version of Flash.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Silverlight - Alegoo92, on 10/11/2007, -2/+12Giving any lag for Linux- maybe it could cause some rapid fire adoption for the other platforms. MS Windows isn't superior for anymore reasons that it has the most support. The only way to keep marketshare is to keep it this way.
- eastshores, on 10/11/2007, -2/+11This is not bad for MS or Linux. It is completely in line with what Miguel / Novell has done with Mono to date. There are plenty of developers out there writing open source libraries for the .NET platform, and if a developer chooses to open source their libraries, doesn't it make sense to be able to have those libraries "just work" in either OS? Silverlight is basically a .NET language integrated Flash. Silverlight is there to compete with Adobe Flash on the rich media experience in the browser, and takes Flash a step further by allowing much of the .NET framework to be available from within that environment. Read Miguel's page and you will see that he was asked by MS France to speak at their version of Mix. It's not like MS is upset that they are doing this work.
- Protoss, on 10/11/2007, -2/+10Exactly. Notice how once Apple started gaining marketshare again they pretty much forgot about developing for OSX?
IE was abandoned, Office skipped a few releases, MSN Messenger was dropped.
Microsoft just helped Apple so they wouldn't look like they were all about monopolistic practices. - trogdoor, on 10/11/2007, -3/+11Not being able to use VB.net is a feature :)
- cunningjames, on 10/11/2007, -1/+9> Can you code in VB.net in Mono, yet?
Yep.
http://www.mono-project.com/VisualBasic.NET_support - kheldorin, on 10/11/2007, -5/+12Because MS does not want to deal with the politics of the Linux world? Alot of linux users would refuse to use MS products not based on merit but on philosophical and political ground. It's a very antagonistic relationship which imo stems more from the linux side. The Mono team is somewhat like bridge and I think it's best for both sides that the Silverlight implementation for Linux did not come from MS.
- Irco, on 10/11/2007, -0/+7"...plug-in for delivering the next generation of .NET based media experiences and rich interactive applications for the Web..."
uh...how can you not get that?..is their own version of flash, just easier to use with .net - Treffmon, on 10/11/2007, -1/+8That is the most disgustingly naive comment I have read on Digg in recent months.
.Net is a well implemented and executed garbage collecting interpreted set of languages that is superior to java in dozens of ways. Many many thousands of projects are being written in it with more started every day. Everything from MeGui (a superior compression tool) to full directX games (can't remember the name but theres one on the market). I code in C# 8 hours a day and its far superior to both java and C++ in terms of rapid and flexible development.
You are completely lacking any grounding in the real world if you think that just because a certain company you don't like was the one who spent billions of dollars developing it it has no place on your "pure" platform. What a load of rubbish. Newsflash: Novell and IBM did just as much work building windows technologies before the switched to linux, and microsoft office is one of the reasons apple is successful today, because without a decent set of office tools the original macs (circa 1992) would never have been able to hold their own in the first place in competition to windows 3.1.
The world is not a nice clean black and white world. Its full of shades of gray, and most people who aren't completely devoid of sense really like the idea of compromise. Mono is building an excellent bridge between the two platforms that allows an entire subset of developers (like my company) to build for windows (where the market is) then port their software over cheaply to linux (where we'd like to be for future asia expansion). - mattmcm, on 10/11/2007, -0/+7Doubtful. It'd probably help Silverlight's adoption by developers, which MS would just love.
- ahirreddy, on 10/11/2007, -0/+7For all those that don't know, Silverlight is to Microsoft as Flash is to Adobe ( or at least that's what Microsoft is hoping).
- theonlyvlad, on 10/11/2007, -0/+6also http://silverlight.net/ with watchable demos?
- theonlyvlad, on 10/11/2007, -0/+6So is competition now a bad thing?
Flash and ActionScript has limitations. I'm not saying Silverlight doesn't, but it's still worthwile to see what this project leads to. - microMania, on 10/11/2007, -0/+6Mono was there long before the Microsoft-Novell deal.
- Thyris, on 10/11/2007, -3/+8I've developed for multiple platforms for years, including multi platform using java, the .NET framework, although mostly os dependant, is probably the most organized and well documented development platform i've ever used, not to mention very very very stable. so, how is it unworthy exactly?
- grogan, on 10/11/2007, -0/+5MS is helping them, just like with mono.
- P5ycHo, on 10/11/2007, -1/+6Point me out 3 linux users who are willing to buy *anything* from microsoft.
- Alegoo92, on 10/11/2007, -3/+8K all these M$/***** comments are annoying: and why is the framework unworthy? I assume you're familiar with markups and frmwrks, so what do you see bad about Silverlight besides Microsoft's name attatched?
- SimonGray, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4I think it's more like the Java plugin than the Flash plugin.
- KoZo, on 10/11/2007, -6/+10I am not an uber-programmer, but I congratulate the whole Mono team for doing this. That said, this is fundamentally wrong. By giving leverage for Microsoft to use it's Silverlight into Linux, Linux will be in trouble in the future once this thing really take off.
- xspinkickx, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3Not really considering they pay devs for kernel development, put money into openoffice..... so no IBM doesn't use linux cause its free, they use it because they understand the problem of have a singular company monopolizing on software, and software standards.
- ilgaz, on 10/11/2007, -1/+4Great time to test new digg features, e.g. if you see complete BS comment about how great this is for Linux with mysterious number off diggs, report that PR company... errr user!
- geoken, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3Exactly. Everyone here knows that if Silverlight killed Flash, MS's lawyers would end this project within days.
- heavyal, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3Nice to see an intelligible line of thought on Digg for once.
Mono is a great project and C# is a great language - I come from a Delphi programming background and am trying to migrate my thinking to the C# methodology and have been pleasantly surprised that C# is very similar to Delphi but contains even more of what I thought Delphi should have been to begin with. - aMammoth, on 10/11/2007, -1/+4I'm a Ubuntu 7.04 Feisty Fawn User, and I have an XBOX, xbox 360, 1 controller, a wireless headset and a Windows installation which I don't use.
2 to go. - stalefries, on 10/11/2007, -1/+4You can't assume anything on Digg.
- stewacide, on 10/11/2007, -1/+4I installed the Silverlight beta plug-in on my Mac, and while it works for a bit it inevitably crashes Safari after a few minutes of Silverlight content. I fail to see what it does over Flash anyhow...
- xspinkickx, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2I have no idea what opinion to have on this, I am afraid if silverlight takes off, adobes flash, flex, actionscript killed off, MS are going to drop kick us linux users, for adopting moonlight On the other hand, what if this means better interoperability and could help push more users towards linux.
- ilgaz, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2Netflix requires DRM, companies are not including anything DRM until Linux community, ALL OF THEM decides they should have DRM. That would mean end of free open source philosophy and that time, Gnu.org better sell their domain to some porn site.
- thcobbs, on 10/11/2007, -7/+9Its not that microsoft considers .Net unworthy of linux, it's that they inked a deal with Novell, and now don't have to worry about porting it themselves. As a bonus, they get their products onto the Linux platform, with someone else to blame for any security flaws/generic bugs.
- hitchhacker, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2Still think they should have called it 'monochrome' instead of 'moonlight'.
- Atomic1fire, on 10/11/2007, -1/+3you could have said that about google vs yahoo and microsoft
about microsoft vs apple
about xbox vs ps2 and gamecube
just because you dont like the idea of an attempt to hit new ground
it only levels the playing feild
(im waiting till silverlight can be combined with directx to make 3d games against shockwave
or if it can be at all) - Screwy1138, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2I don't understand, isn't competition good?
- ilgaz, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2Looks like their PR team works hard to digg down any comment making sense.
- xspinkickx, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2I think he is referring to software......
- Escamillo, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2Why should Microsoft port anything to Linux if an OSS dev is willing to do it for free? That's the OSS model. Get OSS devs to do your work for you for free (that's the only reason IBM has embraced Linux, for example).
- ilgaz, on 10/11/2007, -10/+12These people are trojans, worst trojans ever existed on Free software. Do NOT download this, do NOT fall to Microsoft trap, take OS X users/designers as example: IGNORE THIS THING.
Go upgrade your flash to 9 instead, you know, Adobe actually does code for Linux.
I don't care how many MS PR company fake accounts will digg me down, do NOT use this product which is just created because MS was disgusted by other operating systems enjoying all flash features, early or late.
Let it FAIL. - link_36p, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2You've been able to for a long time.... But why would you want to?
- macoafi, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2Also notice that MS Office for Mac isn't the same as the Windows version. It'll have unfinished / untested / not-tested-enough features so that it becomes unstable. Then they can force people to decide between viruses on Windows or no-MS-Office on a Mac. If you *need* Office (which, thanks to NeoOffice [OOo for Aqua]), the Mac won't work for you if it's crashing or being weird a lot.
- GMorgan, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1For that matter by this definition of native you can't run any Python applications and this makes Linux practically unusable
- ilgaz, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1This time, they don't even bother to act. Silverlight content creation tools misses on OS X and no published plans to do so.
- LaPingvino, on 07/21/2008, -0/+1At least they try hard :)
And I'm sure that when there's a need, some day it will get there :) - init100, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1"someone please make a keyboard that clicks properly, PLEASE! The last good keyboards were made before keyboards started using USB"
You mean like an old IBM PS/2 keyboard? I think manufacturers stopped making them because everone *hated* such keyboards. I'm very happy that they are gone. :p - ilgaz, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1If you were designer, it would bug you more since to CREATE silverlight content, you would have to use Windows on X86 PC (yes, no virtualisation). On the other hand, entire suite of Flex/Flash creating software is available on OS X NATIVELY, even as Universal binaries.
MS creates miracles such as making me defend Adobe/Macromedia but this bs is a very good reason to do such thing. - macoafi, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Java is Linux-native. You don't run Java in Wine on Linux, do you?
- eastshores, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Nope.. it's just the easiest way to explain. If you want me to link the MSDN and Channel 9 technical breakdowns of the technology I could do that?
- ilgaz, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1This isn't done for competition, this "technology" as well as many MS offerings is something like "You won the game, I am taking my toys and going to home". Read the technology as developer, you will see many MS traps inside. Since when anything related to web creation requires Windows?
To create silverlight content, you MUST have Windows, not ordinary windows: Windows Vista running Visual Studio .NET. Icaza coding this is not a co-incidence, these guys are really trojans. Wait until they come up with adding Mono to Gnome idea if not already. -
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