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120 Comments
- roebeet, on 09/17/2008, -14/+133Yes.
- tvanwyk, on 09/17/2008, -2/+98Maybe not... but you should.
- WhereAmI, on 09/17/2008, -1/+45Does Firefox work? Check.
Does Thunderbird work? Check.
Solitaire game? Check.
There, the three key programs for 75% of users. - zer0digg, on 09/17/2008, -6/+39actually, today, for a normal "end-user" there's no need at all.
but, IMHO, if you really wanna get all the juice out of you gnu/linux system, you should really learn some CLI commands - picpak, on 09/17/2008, -0/+17Actually, I was hoping for an article that would mention Linux's GUI alternatives for commonly used terminal commands.
- Soval, on 09/17/2008, -1/+15"Text Editors: Vim - Emacs - nano are not practical text editors. Powerful editors? Yes. Practical? No."
Wrong. - weizbox, on 09/17/2008, -1/+15'Do you have to know the terminal in order to use Linux?'
To 'use' it... no, you don't HAVE to. If you run into any problems or need to install some hardware that doesn't 'just work', than yes, it's absolutely needed... which happens quite a bit with even the most 'basic' of things (web cams, wifi, etc). With the amount of hardware that the average person has nowadays, they would need to hit the terminal at once point or another. - innovati, on 09/17/2008, -6/+20You have to be comfortable with command-line fuctions on any operating system to be a real user.
Simply relying on GUI wizards and icons and menus is cumbersome and not always in the best interest of the user for accesbility or speed (or control)
I am a graphic designer, not a progammer or computer science nerd, but I will say I often use the terminal on OS X for simple things that don't require a program. These things you ought to be comfortable doing on any OS you use, whether it be windows, linux, unix, mac, beos or anything:
-Ping - to easily determine if you're connected to the internet
-Moving/copying/renaming files
-Mounting or unmounting drives, partitions or devices
-FTP, SSH - simple networking tools
-Opening programs with arguments - Seantacular, on 09/17/2008, -2/+14I can run linux with no terminal, no terminal, no terminal, no terminal...
- 3242130193, on 09/17/2008, -7/+17To be honest, I find file management much easier from the command line, especially when you use regular expressions. It's definitely not necessary though - any application that a basic user uses should be fine in a gui.
The only reason non-power users would use terminal would be if someone's trying to fix something that goes wrong. But at least you can fix it; if it's broken in Windows then you're just... fooked. - granolajoe, on 09/17/2008, -1/+11The command line isn't all that scary once you sit down and learn a few commands. Eventually, you'll even start to feel that you can do things with more flexibility and faster than on a GUI.
Anyone who's ever worked on an Apache, MySQL and PHP setup will tell you that knowing the command line is essential. However...distributions like Ubuntu are making it easier for people to be almost completely independent of a command line altogether. - DigitalPioneer, on 09/17/2008, -0/+8I agree that removing terminal tasks like editing conf files and connecting to networks is a laudable task, but I will never agree to the removal of the terminal. That's what windows did, and it SUCKS. The terminals is an incredibly powerful tool, and removing it would be a terrible mistake.
It's like a screwdriver vs a drill. The drill does the exact same thing, it just looks fancier doing it, automates the process a bit, and breaks down more often. Sometimes it's better/easier/faster to just use the screwdriver and get the job done. If your GUI goes out on you, you need to have something to fall back on. In the mean time, sometimes it's better to just start with the screwdriver because the job is simple enough that using a drill is a meaningless waste of energy. - mwsherman, on 09/17/2008, -2/+9Let's just hope that they don't want to use wireless internet.
- SyntraFTW, on 09/17/2008, -3/+10If this is true, Linux just lost the interest of well... I would say millions at least.
- pablo0713, on 09/17/2008, -2/+9Buried for inaccuracy.
- MWeather, on 09/17/2008, -0/+7And yet the price tag (both for the software, and the hardware it runs on) make it the only OS billions can afford. (Ok, BSD too)
I think Linux will get along just fine. - GlitchEnzo, on 09/17/2008, -0/+6Just out of curiousity, what type of work do you hire for, and in turn, what do you use the commandline for? I ask because I have been a Software Engineer for over 4 years now, and I very rarely use the commandline. If I do use it, it is either to ping in order to see if a server is working, or to ipconfig to get my IP address. My actual job responsibilities do not require the use of it at all.
- Dylson, on 09/17/2008, -8/+14The answer to the description: GOD ***** YES. You absolutely do.
- bipolarruledout, on 09/17/2008, -0/+6You might as well ask "Do you have to be rich to be happy?" The answer being, no but it sure helps.
- tupperbacharach, on 09/17/2008, -0/+6Evidently, the author feels that, for it to be "practical," an app must be instantly comprehensible by newbies.
On the other hand, most who have never seen Nano can use it immediately. - ninti, on 09/17/2008, -1/+6My main problem with a command line based system like Linux is there is no discoverability.
OK quick, how do I change the shared drives that come up on boot? How do I add something to the start menu? How do I change my IP address? Maybe you are an expert in Windows or Linux, you might know that. Now assume you aren't, how are you going to find it?
On Windows I could assume that it is through the control panel, wander around the little icons for a while, and find it. I know that 99% of the time there is a way to it graphically somewhere, and I can find it eventually. On Linux....huh....where is that config file...in /var/lib? /sbin? /etc? What is the name? How would you find it? What are the options that I can type into it?
Ubuntu has gotten better about it, but until they find a way to create a GUI interface for EVERY single config file that Linux uses, Windows will still be easier to use. - WhereAmI, on 09/17/2008, -1/+6Its not hard to use people. I find it easier. I've had synaptic package manager crash on an update once and it ***** up the system. Its good for searching *****, but updates to something already installed should be done with #apt-get upgrade on Debian based systems.
- jamesdew, on 09/17/2008, -3/+8I find phrases like "real user" so irritating. Firstly who gave you the right to define what a "real user" is. Also it's not like "user" is some sort of high grade that you achieve when you reach mastery of the PC. If a person browses the web using Linux + Firefox every day and is none the wiser to what Linux even is they are still a user, some might even call them a "real user".
- databeast, on 09/17/2008, -2/+7Do you have to know the commandline to know windows?
No.
But you do it you want me to hire you (a sentiment most hiring managers will share). - pHr34kY, on 09/17/2008, -1/+6... I could almost use the same argument to state that there's no use for the GUI. I just do whichever is easier, and often it's the terminal.
- RadonPL, on 09/17/2008, -1/+5I agree, sad but true.
Most people would be satisfied with a netbook like the EeePC with Atom but with a slightly larger screen. - MWeather, on 09/17/2008, -1/+5No, you can do everything the slow way.
- daftman, on 09/17/2008, -0/+4terminal commands are usually atomic i.e they usually do one thing and do it well
GUI is sometimes a wrapper of those commands that does multiple things together, e.g update-manager, gwget
Good luck though in finding GUI for sed, grep and awk - RubberBinder, on 09/17/2008, -6/+10While the terminal is becoming less and less necessary, I'd have to agree with you because there are some things that are just better off left to the terminal. That being said, I think eventually we will have a completely GUI based Linux, but who's to know when that will happen.
- ToadX, on 09/17/2008, -0/+4You can't claim to know how to use Linux if you don't know how to use the terminal. The KDE and Gnome GUI's are not Linux. KDE and Gnome don't even have to run on Linux (e.g. PC-BSD). Saying that you know how to use Linux if you don't know the terminal is equivalent to all Mac OS X users claiming they know UNIX.
- aywwts4, on 09/17/2008, -0/+4Nano is instantly comprehensible to newbies. All the instructions anyone could need is " ^ means control key" and "open a text file by typing 'nano (textfilename)' "
Advanced nano usage is great too, syntax highlighting, auto backups, etc, but basic nano is no more complex than notepad. - drikle, on 09/17/2008, -2/+5It's funny that he only talks about the use of applications, like why should you need a terminal for that, "Ma"?
If you are instaling packages and your package management gui "freezes", what you gonna do(like in Ubuntu (sudo rm /var/lib/apt/lists/lock) If your 3D card isn't supported but want the "nice Linux" everybody has? What you gonna do? An telling the user have to look for supported hardware isn't going to do it, becaus there is no reason he knows where to look for. - samotage, on 09/17/2008, -0/+3the command line allows one to fly through their house without walls.
- whiteguysamurai, on 09/17/2008, -0/+3What about internet connection sharing?
Still have to use a terminal? - Skooma714, on 09/17/2008, -2/+5You mean IE and Outlook.
Hell, most people don't even use Outlook. They use the WebUI for their mail provider. - wattersm, on 09/17/2008, -0/+3Vista is a desktop OS but you can install Server 2008 with just the core server option which is command line only.
- Katana314, on 09/17/2008, -0/+3While it may be possible to perform some advanced tasks without the terminal, if you're doing a google search for "How do I blank?" then chances are the experts will all have the same first step.
1: Open Terminal.
Thus, the answer to this article is Yes. - bitterbug, on 09/17/2008, -0/+3Of course it's only recently that the GUI versions of many apps started seeing some much needed love.
It sucks that while there's tons of coders out there contributing to open source, there's not a lot of UI (usability) designers, and artists contributing. At least not on a similar scale.
Sometimes it's just cleaner and easier to drop to the GUI to get the job done. - Stonekeeper, on 09/17/2008, -1/+4You don't have to, but damn is it awesomely fast if you do. People always moaning that using the command line is a bad thing. Hell, no it's not. It's the fastest damn way of getting a lot of stuff done. I recently had to use an XP laptop to configure and test a wireless network. changing the damn interfaces was such a ball ache. On linux, it's a one liner i can do in 5 secs. This also applies to linux guis too. Sure, people who have the time to fart about can use them if it makes them feel better, but don't give me this crap about the terminal being a bad thing. It's awesome.
- cawfee, on 09/17/2008, -0/+3Bring "real" gaming to Linux (e.g. immediate, working ports of -all- major titles) with a little bit of a performance boost over Windows, and you will be surprised just how many people will switch in a heartbeat. Gaming and a few exclusive programs are the only reasons people still use Windows / dual boot solutions.
- 0x0000ff, on 09/17/2008, -1/+4off the top of my head i'd probably type most of the following types of commands on various PC's multiple times a day.
wuauclt /detectnow
netsh interface add x
route delete 10.15.1.0 mask 255.255.255.0 10.15.0.3
gpupdate /force - CrushThemTorg, on 09/17/2008, -0/+2I think terminal skills are useful for the above-average user. There are a significant number of tasks that can be accomplished faster in a CLI environment than in a GUI environment. Mac users who can do more than be pretentious should start now – it's not like you have to use tcsh anymore (10.1 users represent?) ... you can if you want.
- Togusa09, on 09/17/2008, -0/+2Is that trying to imply that there was something wrong with DOS?
- SiXiam, on 09/17/2008, -2/+4Well I installed Ubuntu, but to actually use my other hard-drive and to work around dual booting xp I had to use terminal. I see no reason to use Linux, when XP works for everything I do. Why learn something new. I'll keep my ctrl-v and ctrl-c and no that ***** vi editor won't work around my issues.
- evnglion, on 09/17/2008, -1/+3I don't follow... are you implying that copy and paste doesn't work in Linux? I dunno what distro you're using, but I have never tried one that didn't have copy and paste, and I've tried a lot of different flavors of Linux
- Culyt, on 09/17/2008, -1/+3My answer is, No unless something really ***** up.
You will however end up using it a lot because its much easier to give a terminal command to users when they are having a problem than try and navigate them through the series of clicking hoops in a gui.
Its also a lot better to learn the terminal in the long run.
Remember the solution to fix a problem under Linux might be hours of confusing technical stuff, but on other systems the solution is to buy a new computer, reinstall everything or just give up.
☢ - jamesdew, on 09/17/2008, -0/+2And I can end your process with a kill -9, a kill -9 a kill -niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiine
- databeast, on 09/17/2008, -0/+2System Administration; you're right, that should have been stated, but in fairness if you aren't administrating and in a perfect world, as an end user your OS shouldn't matter.
- arjie, on 09/17/2008, -0/+2Well then, that was a long time ago. For a few releases now, the only thing you have to do is go to a page with Flash content on it.
Alternatively, open Synaptic Package Manager, and search for 'flash'. - Culyt, on 09/17/2008, -0/+2try out firestarter, it should be in synaptic or whatever package manager you use.
complete GUI firewall/internet sharing solution.
☢ -
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