What is Digg?45 Comments
- OverloadUT, on 10/12/2007, -2/+20What is the point of putting "Linux" in the title? Does the fact that it runs linux make any difference at all? It's not like you build it youself and download the software or anything.
- funka7ron, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9The HD experience I want doesn't include having all of my content locked inside my $800 + monthly fees box.
- Poco, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Hey everyone "OS/2 Money - Bank machines running OS/2 now dispense more money"
- TheBarge, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Too bad it doesn't work for satellite and I'm stuck in a DirecTV contract. But at least I have my Tivo based HR10-250.
- scootinger, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Exactly - most of us have known for a long time that every Tivo is Linux-based and this one is no different.
- babbling, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5In fact, TiVo have put measures in place to ensure that you can't modify the version of Linux that it is running. They circumvented the GPL.
Luckily, GPLv3 will address this. - einfeldt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4hi,
babbling and aexny raised some good points about how TiVo is corrupting the open nature of Linux. I actually didn't know anything about this, and it would be interesting to see some links and further discussion about it here.
I find it hard to believe, though, that some good kernel hackers wouldn't be able to circumvent whatever lock-down TiVo might be inserting into its systems. Think about it. Andrew Bunny Hwang hacked the Xbox! Lots of people *mod* the Xbox, but Bunny actually hacked deep into the guts of the Xbox. If Bunny can hack the X-box, don't you think that the hundreds of thousands of kernel hackers all over the world could break the TiVo locks?
Here's Bunny's site:
http://hackingthexbox.com/
Ooops, I just noticed that I put this comment in the wrong thread. I should have placed it in the thread started by OverloadUT. Sorry. - flippedcracker, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4so wait, it's just the Series 3? lame.
- finite, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4@einfeldt: you are sadly mistaken if you think there is any consumer benefit to tivo's use of Linux. They're utter bastards and should be boycotted. HD tuner cards have been available for quite a while now, so if you want a Linux HD-DVR, just get some generic hardware and install the MythTV software.
- aexny, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Tivo and Linux have about as much in common these days as my microwave and the z80 inside it. Though based on very hackable platforms, neither are made to be easily accessible.
- bieber, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Anyone heard the term "Tivo-ization"? The people who actually _wrote_ the software that powers TiVO would likely beg to differ on that whole "Tivo rocks!" thing...
- dotorg, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3ozid:
Ok, post us a part list.
In fact, do it from an unlimited budget, not just less money. As much money as you can spend, post a parts list for a PC that can do what the Tivo S3 can do. Let us know what software we should install.
Smart guy, give us some links to shipping CableCard adapters for your PC. Give us some links to software (for any price) that works with them.
Now show us how this fantasy system is less than $800. - justintime32, on 10/12/2007, -6/+9True, but TiVo is so popular because the world is filled with noobs who scratch their head when you say "MythTV"
- bruce89, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Even at that they have DRM on it which prevents modified versions from working on the TiVo itself.
All they want out of Linux is a free system but keep it as restricted as possible. - finite, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Lockin FTN00B! LOL
Me, I wouldn't take a free TiVo, except to repurpose its hard drive. - klausner, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3It matters in as much as the Dish Network PVRs run Windoze. Worst pieces of technological crap it was ever my misfortune to have to use.
- kabewm, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@ozid
"TiVo sucks. You could make a computer do this for cheaper without the subscription."
Really? I didn't realize that you could use a CableCARD on a pc. - drowelf, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Sorry, for $600 i can make one hell of a dual tuner system. It will have 3 to 4 times as many features as a Tivo and that's if I only have 1/2 a weekend to set it up. If you're computer savvy, tivo is not a great deal (unless you get one of those lame $99 jobs). If you just want an appliance that you can buy off the shelf, then it's excellent. I know becuase I have two of them (a single and a dual tuner) under some boxes in my garage. I'm writing this post on my Tivo while two shows are being recorded and my wife is in the baby's room watching an already recorded show on her laptop. I decided to build my own when I realized that I often want to record the show to a form that I can send to my friends either whole or some part. Now I press one button on my remote and a program opens with the show and the commercials already detected. If I just want to burn the whole thing to disk without commercials, then I grab my wireless keyboard and specify which drive (harddrive, cdrom or dvd...i could put this on the remote if I was in the mood). If I want to only send a part, then I set the start and finish points and then save it. This is just one of the many many things I can easily do with my pvr that I couldn't do with Tivo.
Myth is cool, but if you're faster and more knowledgeable in windows, I highly recommend SageTV (my favorite) or BeyondTV. They cost, but I can't consider Myth until it gets automatic commercial skip (I understand they just put it in). - cuzican, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2buried for price.. seriously.. i thought tivo learned when they had to start 'giving away' their regular tivo's.. uggg.. :(
- deadbaby, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Way too expensive for me. There's just not enough good content on TV to justify $800+
- bluenova, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2What a rip off. Build your own PC for half the cost and run MythTV on it for free.
http://www.mythtv.org/ - ozid, on 10/12/2007, -6/+8Aren't most products like this using Linux? Hell my TV's GUI is Linux-Based.
TiVo sucks. You could make a computer do this for cheaper without the subscription.
And almost all providers offer their own form of TiVo, or On Demand. - wrongway, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2>>Myth is cool, but if you're faster and more knowledgeable in windows, I highly recommend SageTV (my favorite) or BeyondTV. They cost, but I can't consider Myth until it gets automatic commercial skip (I understand they just put it in).
Myth has had auto commercial skip for years now... - gmerin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2just Tivo blackmail.
- caleb4mj, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2The HD experience I want is 1280x1024@75+ Hz.
Until I see some high resolution and high sample rate progressive scan I have better things to spend my money on..
Like a media center that supports MPEG-4 compression or better with no artifacts, standard analog and digital I/O, several TB of storage, extra CPU for encoding in the background, DVD/media ripping/transcoding, 3D gaming (Quake4, etc), web, email, RSS/newsfeeds, weather, network attached media libraries, etc.
Tivo is so 2001. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I wonder about the source for the cablecard drivers. Probably closed also.
Damn if we could just BUY cablecards already. I hate DRM and all the ***** that goes with it...it really limits what you can do for yourself. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I hear you..my Motorola 6412 series3 does this also. Who knows what it's running but as long as it keeps outputting a raw firewire stream to my mythtv box, who cares?
- einfeldt, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3The reason that I put Linux in the title is that a lot of people want to look for stuff that is powered by free open source software. I'm not a preachy person, but I also don't like DRM and lock-down. I am not a big Windows fan for that reason. Again, I know that there are a lot of Microsoft and Windows fans on this site, and I am not trying to shoot down their technology choices.
But at the same time, the freedom that comes with Linux and open source software is important to A LOT of people, which is why I put it in the title. - viktoria, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1that's right deadbaby, I wouldn't shell out $800 bucks for that.
- Sagres, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1$800 plus sub? No way.
- drowelf, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1For that price they can kiss my butt! I've got all those capabilites and much much more in my two pc based DVRs...one based on SageTV and one based on BeyondTV.
- commitone, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1My cable box already records HD(two shows at the same time). Which I pay an extra $5 a month. I can't justify giving tivo $800, plus monthly. I do miss the GUI tho.
- timdorr, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"Really? I didn't realize that you could use a CableCARD on a pc."
http://www.engadget.com/2006/01/06/atis-ocur-worlds-first-cablecard-hdtv-tuner-for-vista-pcs/ - Sefirosu, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@dotorg
TiVo is nice. But I also hate the subscription, I hate that you can't really transfer recordings (HD ones, correct me if I'm wrong on that but TiVo to go seems to be non-working on these) from the box to your PC and I definitely hate that it doesn't support satellite, but satellite PVRs aren't better in any way.
I don't think you can build a PC for less than 800$ with all these features, unfortunately. And last time I have read you will need to buy a "branded" PC to be able to use Cablecards in them with Vista (won't work with XP ?) ...
So if you have cable and it suits your needs, get TiVo. - babbling, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1einfeldt,
Take a look at this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tivoization - kabewm, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@timdor
I guess I should have specified CableCARD 2.0. Also should have stipulated that it must be a "real" device, as this is for Vista, which is still not shipping. - einfeldt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1hi finite,
You said, "@einfeldt: you are sadly mistaken if you think there is any consumer benefit to tivo's use of Linux. They're utter bastards and should be boycotted. HD tuner cards have been available for quite a while now, so if you want a Linux HD-DVR, just get some generic hardware and install the MythTV software."
I have seen MythTV installed on boxes to make a good DVR. That was about a year and a half ago. It was not an easy install. It was at one of those EFF MythTV install fests, and the Linux gurus who showed up were really incredibly powerful code hackers, and even they had some troubles getting it going. They each built a box in about 3.5 hours, but it did take someone of their skill level to get it going AT THAT TIME. Now of course, one and a half years is a life time in open source, and so probably the install has gotten better since then. I personally am hoping to do a MythTV install, but I'm waiting for the community to improve the documentation a bit before attempting it myself.
The other issue is that building a myth TV box is really about the same cost as one of these new TiVos, IMHO. For goog performance, you really do want a machine that will ultimately pencil out at about $850 or so, when you include ALL of the components.
Of course, the advantage of a MythTV set up is that you are able to record, rip, mix and burn, which you currently cannot do with TiVo, unless you are able to hack it.
Also, you said that TiVo are bastards and should be boycotted. It would be helpful if you would let us know what TiVo has done so that they can be held accountable. Remember, Linspire Linux at first was much more commercial than they are now. The community complained bitterly about some of their business practices, and Linspire responded. The same can happen with TiVo. But people need to be really specific about what it is that TiVo is doing wrong, so that they can be held accountable.
Christian Einfeldt - MikeF74, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1The TiVo software isn't open source. The only thing that is GNU is the modifications TiVo made to the OS to make their product work.
- bluenova, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0@almightystoph
I don't know where you live, but you're paying far too much for your hardware. In the UK you would be looking at half that price. - lamestory, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2but nothing on Digg ever gets marked "Ok This Is Lame" although 1/2 the stuff on the front page is exactly that.
- biddessa, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Really good. I've heard about this month ago, but I can't remember where exactly.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -5/+1To all the people claiming MythTV is so much better...
Nice fast PC / RAM / Big Hard Drive / DVD / Capture Card / Nice Graphics Card =
$500-$1000
Tivo with all the same features AND a lifetime subscription = $350-$600
Tivo FTW! - Sefirosu, on 10/12/2007, -7/+3I would say Windows XP MCE. The improvements in MCE Vista have me impressed, and I don't like Windows that much. Anyway I have satellite and in Canada so no HD Tivo....
mythTV is good though, but it is not as easy for the inexperienced or not computer savvy, soon maybe but we're not there yet.
But they need to sort this HD recording problem... I want to record HD programs without restrictions and current "solutions" suck at best. - flippedcracker, on 10/12/2007, -10/+4[an error occurred while processing this directive]
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