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- Phocion55, on 10/12/2007, -13/+40@estvir:
......So we'll see those in 2014 then? - estvir, on 10/12/2007, -14/+38Hah, what a pipe dream.
Most consumers won't even know there are difference versions of Windows and will be happy with whatever is preloaded on their PC when they buy it and I doubt very many people, at all, will switch over to Linux just because of a couple of different versions of Vista.
Actually, maybe when these mythical consumers decide to go Linux instead of Vista because of these 'complex' schemes they'll come straight back to Windows because of the how many hundred distros ?
Also, Vista isn't 'pricey' and there was a story a month or so back in which it compared versions of Vista to that of XP and it was basically the same except for Ultimate which was a bit above any XP versions. Oh, and I'll point out again that most customers get heavily discounted OEM versions and so on with their new PCs.
There are analysts saying opposite things, like in this article they say that businesses will hold off for awhile (Not because it's Microsoft but because they have schedules, budgets, etc) and there will also be businesses which will adopt faster (As said by other analysts like Jupiter, etc). Also, there's data floating around showing how adoption of Vista is expected to be the fastest of any version of Windows. - redhatcat, on 10/12/2007, -35/+57Vista is the last Windows.
- Phocion55, on 10/12/2007, -2/+24This very well may be the most accurate description of how someone uses Windows I've ever seen.
- Phocion55, on 10/12/2007, -8/+30I had a conversation with a co-worker a few days ago about Vista. He just tried it and was mainly going onnnn and onnnnnn about how cool the new desktop "effects" were.
I then showed him a YouTube video of a Linux desktop with Beryl+AIGLX and he goes:
"What the hell is that and how do I get it?"
I explained to him how it was Linux, it was free, and pointed him to a LiveCD he could download and try out. He was floored that it was free.
He hasn't talked about Vista since...... - chris9902, on 10/12/2007, -12/+30the last Windows?
yeah I'm sure Microsoft have having a meeting right now about ways to lose money. Maybe you should join them, they'd love your ideas. While you're down there why don't you grab some source code. I'm sure they'll be happy to give it out. - estvir, on 10/12/2007, -15/+33Actually work has started on the next version some time ago (Vienna / Blackcomb) and there are also their other projects they're working on (Synergy OS prototype, etc).
- kingace, on 10/12/2007, -6/+19@f00kies:
www.ubuntu.com
Try it before you diss it. - Frebis, on 10/12/2007, -5/+18Linux doesnt see Microsoft as a threat? Dear god dont take away our 1% Market share!
- nbcivic, on 10/12/2007, -5/+18people are stupid, they can hardly send an email and now you're expecting them to load LINUX on their pc's?
- Scatropolis, on 10/12/2007, -8/+21Am I the only one here that uses Windows because I want to? About ever 6-12 months I try the latest and greatest linux distro, but end up getting annoyed and frustrated with all it's quirks that I just go straight back to Windows. I realize that I'm used to Windows, but I don't ever have a problem with it. In NEVER crashes on me, it has TONS of apps (even some ported linux apps which I proudly use), but as far as usability goes it's one of the best things I've found.
What would get me to switch? Probably nothing. Maybe someday I'll buy an apple and dual boot. But there's still nothing on the mac that I absolutely need.
I'm looking forward to Vista, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. - jamble, on 10/12/2007, -6/+17I don't think you linux nerds get it, nobody who is a "Joe Consumer" who buys a pc down at their local superstore will be confused by the many versions of vista and they sure as hell won't know what linux is.
Lets face it here, linux is good but it's only dedicated nerds that actually use it. The average consumer doesn't know what it is. They're more likely to switch to a mac if anything. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12What threat?
Cant we all just get along? - msgyrd, on 10/12/2007, -5/+14"Vista No Threat"
Wrong. Vista is a threat to itself. There's not enough improvement over XP to justify the cost, and it's bound to be filled with as many security problems as their other products.
However, Windows has its place in this world, I just wish MS would stop trying to strongarm a monopoply in every market they occupy, and adhere to some ***** industry standards besides the ones they create using their monoply. - pathy, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12Unless I'm unaware of things, aside from WGA, isn't the DRM in Vista to... allow people to use HD-DVD and Blu Ray discs that have HDCP on them?
I may be illinformed about it, but isn't this just an extension of CSS so far, that uh.. doesn't seem like a point against Windows, for allowing you to watch the media if those protections are used. - gildude, on 10/12/2007, -9/+18haha. So a complex price scheme will make people that barely know how to use a computer install something that is harder to use? Sorry, I've used both and for the "it's an appliance" type user, GNULinux is still too hard. Catching up? Yes. But not quite there yet.
As far as the DRM - that does suck, but only because it isn't implemented in a way that allows unlimited format shifting, etc. I think I would be OK with the DRM stuff if it let me move my "license" around wherever I wanted and had a "like a book" license - I can run it on any device I want as long as it is only 1 at a time. It needs to be transparent (I should never have to fight with it to use my "license"). It needs to remove itself if the content ever goes public domain. It needs to be future proof so that when a new platform comes out it works. There are many more things - but if someone ever comes up with one like that then I will probably be OK with it.
For now, DRM blows. It is designed to make me buy stuff multiple times. It's crap. - redhatcat, on 10/12/2007, -9/+17@chris9902
I never said they were planning for it to be their last. - Rayor, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9Jesus Christ, use some punctuation.
- Phocion55, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9According to Steve Ballmer, we can all "get along" by having Linux pay far out the ass.
- Phocion55, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8@chad3405: This may be somewhat true.
But, like my example above, people still show that amazement when you show them what Linux can do, and that it's free.
The guy who used the LiveCD said he loved it, admitted that it completely blew Vista away, BUT he said and I quote:
"I don't know if I want to take the time to learn Linux." - itisme, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7perhaps this says more about the company you keep than the software you use!
- arielmaidana, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5@ benitojuarez: Yo know, you don't *have* to compile everything before running it in Linux, yo *can* do it if you want, which is a very different thing. And, in case you didn't notice it, that lunix thing was a JOKE. Go read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adequacy.org
@ Phocion55: Yeah, and also Quake is a hacker tool :P LOL - chad3405, on 10/12/2007, -15/+20People are not going to switch from Windows to Linux, it just won't happen. Keep dreaming.
- PatrickBrown, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Heh, these are some rather humorous statements. I think you are viewing Linux as a company (such as Microsoft or Apple), which is simply incorrect. It is not your fault though, you have been brought up your entire life seeing "Microsoft" or "Apple" pasted wherever you could find their respective operating systems.
There is no control of the number of distros in Linux. Indeed, this is the intention of open source software. Also, while each distribution may have a specific purpose or goal in mind, there is not a single distro assigned to a given task as you seem to suggest (in fact, there may be multiple that can have the same goal of accomplishing a particular task).
The many distros and the forking of involved in software related to Linux and open source in general help to ensure the health of the operating system. In this manner, software takes on a pattern of constant evolution rather than a single large release every 6 years.
While the many distros may confuse those who do not understand that ultimately the majority of the software on any distro is the same, I would not think it to be anymore confusing than having to click Start to shutdown a computer. You can learn the workings of both in about a minute with a google search. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7Until the game makers start to use OpenGL, not Windows only DirectX.
- BRODEL, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7Installing things in Ubuntu is sometimes much easier than doing it in windows. You just have to know how to just like you first learned how to install a windows app.
sudo aptitude install whatever
The first time I learned how to install stuff like that I was amazed. Hell this is much easier than windows with its download, find file, double click, Next, Next, Agree, Next, Finish method. I will admit that it's different, that scares a lot of people because they already learned how to do it one way, why learn to do it another? It's a simple matter of being stuck with windows and it's flaws and ill thought out processes or learning a new way of doing something and never looking back.
Edit:Oops, clicked wong reply link. Meant to reply to chad3405 to respond to f00kies : - b7illsmith, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5@PatrickBrown-
I've given up trying to explain the "Free and Open Source" thing. Most people don't consider this a factor in which OS or distro to use.
@ those who find Linux too confusing -
...well, I don't know what to tell you. Just use whatever came with your computer. Don't worry your pretty little head over it. - redhatcat, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5@questionable
"tell me what it can give me."
- Tons of quality, gratis software to use, modify, and redistribute for as long as you like.
- A secure and easy to maintain platform. Security patches for all of your software, not just the core, but also your applications, can be applied all at once, easily and usually without rebooting.
- Software that can be installed on your existing hardware. Got a old Pentium III under some dust? How about a G4 PowerMac? Or do you shun all systems except those that have 4+ opterons? GNU/Linux can be installed on all of these and more.
- Software that isn't crippled! Ever try to setup a static IP Address on XP Home? Ever try to have 11+ people use your XP Pro running file server at once? Ever try to install WSUS on XP? You can't. These are deliberate crippled on the OS to make users buy the more expensive edition. It's not that these features are hard implement. They have just been limited. There is no such restrictions in open-source software. These software packages compete with features and performance. They can afford to be crippled or a better package will replace it.
- Software that YOU own. With all of the asset protection packaged with Windows, like product keys, activation, and WGA, it should be apparent that you don't really own the software. At any moment, Microsoft could simply determine your copy is not genuine and send you a bill or a summons. You have to buy licenses, called CALS, for the right to network Windows Server systems. That's not an OS that is owned by anyone but Microsoft.
Since you already use Thunderbird and FLAC, you would have no problem using Linux. Both were pioneered on Linux and are available on most major distributions. I'm not asking you to throw away everything. You can easily install Ubuntu on an older system to play around with, boot a LiveCD, or dual-boot your main computer. This isn't a commitment. There is nothing to lose. - kuribo, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6I'm not saying that Linux wouldn't be a good choice for them (although, depending on the distro, it might not be, as you say), I just think that most people don't even know about this alternative. To a lot of people, Windows = Computer, and they're not going to seek out something that they don't even know exists because of a minor inconvenience.
- msgyrd, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4@f00kies:
Unified executables are a horrible implementation of binary software. Linux's method works well, but is confusing for users, which is why things like Yum, apt, and emerge were written, so you don't have to actually worry about how the software was packaged or where it needs to install to. But when it comes to power and ease of use, Apple blows the rest away. .app files are easily modified, can support multiple architectures/ processors, and aren't dependent on drive location to work. - TheReport, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5""The only way 95% of the population will ever use Linux is if someone else practically forces it on them""
I completely agree with this statment, and that is why the only way to ever get Linux a fighting chane to an elephant of a company like Microsoft is if it is hit by the hardware computer companies that decide to preinstall these operating systems. People are so docile and ignornat to the idea of trying out an alternative that the only way they would ever try it is if they were forced too. - ricodued, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8In other news, the vegetarian movement finds meat industry no threat to the adoption of green ways.
- WhiskerTheMad, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5"People are not going to switch from Windows to Linux..."
I did. Am I not people? - Phocion55, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Evidently you can hack into someone's stereo and steal their music with the "mp3" program.
- arielmaidana, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6@ benitojuarez:
Examples:
1) See/change the source code
2) Pass a copy to a friend
3) Having privacy without the system calling home
There are a lot more, but these are more than enough to show how Windows doesn't give you freedom, but takes it away from you. - williamdyer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Ask a high school kid: "What do you think of DRM?" You will get an earful. DRM, RFID, and other privacy-invading technologies have lost the PR war. Everyone who is at all tech literate knows they are poison.
- Septimus, on 10/12/2007, -5/+9Bruce Perens spreads fud.
Better title. - Schpariel, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4You guys haven't heard of Synaptic, which comes with a lot of distros (i.e. Ubuntu)
http://freshrpms.net/apt/synaptic/synaptic.png
And how about GDebi? (associated with .deb files)
http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/gdebi/gdebi-1.png
There is no installation hassle in Linux, installing/uninstalling programs is actually easier than Windows! - Septimus, on 10/12/2007, -6/+10Would you like a tin foil hat to go with your computing experience also?
- woodwater, on 10/12/2007, -8/+12I'm really tired of Linux people trying to convert or bad mouth windows, or any OS for that matter.
Jesus Christ, I don't go around trying to convice everyone Linux or Mac is bad. I have plenty of arguments on both sides. And I have a few crappy one for Windows too.
Linux and Mac are both great OSs, IF YOU HAPPEN TO LIKE THEM. That's it End of story. Use whatever the hell makes you happy and get on with your lives.
Who cares what you use? I sure as hell don't.
Do you care about what I use as an OS?
Didn't think so.
Other good point in this thread. People won't get Vista because there's too many versions of it? But they'll pick a Linux distro. Because there's soooooo few of those. - arielmaidana, on 10/12/2007, -7/+10"What freedom? I am free to do anything I want on windows."
That's what you think. - tgwinn, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5I completely agree...i hated having to learn code to figure out how to "compile" and install anything on my computer. Just make it point, click, and work. Believe me...I don't have a problem with learning code....I just spend my whole day at work doing those things and when I want to sit down and relax playing on the computer, the last thing I want is work. The old add age applys... Keep it simple stupid.
- redhatcat, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@akinder
"Do you know C or C++?"
Absolutely. Also, Java, Python, Ruby, PHP, and Perl.
"Have you actively hacked into the code to change something?"
I find and fix bugs on occasion. To tell the truth, I usually don't need to "hack" packages because they already fit my needs.
"You're probably in the same crowd that just uses it because you don't want to pay for it."
Why would anyone pay for an inferior product when there are much better free alternatives? - MrTea, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3No. Else, there'd be no point in competing.
- mitrovarr, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5I don't see how that's Microsoft's fault, though. Complaining about their security when it's actually bad is one thing, but when the user goes out of their way to install malware, what is the OS supposed to do? The only reason that same user couldn't go and install that crap on Linux is because it doesn't exist for that platform.
Let's face it, Linux is no security solution for users like that. They'd happily give their root password (if they even had the wit to set one) to any program that said it was necessary for install. - Darcy, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6Freedom is the main reason I prefer Windows, freedom to use whatever hardware or software I like. When I buy a new piece of hardware I don't want to have to worry about whether it's compatible with my OS, I just want to hook it up and use it without messing about. When I want to try new software no matter what it is, all I have to do is a quick search and I know I'm going to get a good choice from dozens and dozens of different apps that do the job I want. With Linux I'll probably get a choice of 1 or 2 (depending what I want), that are usually bug ridden and a lot harder to use.
For me Linux has always been and endless cycle of problem solving and frustration, although it can be fun if you like that sort of thing. - ricodued, on 10/12/2007, -6/+9Not to mention the billion distributions of Linux.
"Each one its tailored to a specific target end-user or set of tasks, like for mathematicians."
"Well, which one lets me check my email, surf the web, and play my games?"
"This one, this one, this one, this one, this one, this one, this one and this one."
"Well whats the difference between all of those!? Why isn't there just one!?" - clickwir, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5From a Windows user perspective other than being fancy and new, I see no reason to change from XP to vista. It doesn't offer me anything that I need or really even want that I can't get in XP.
From a Kubuntu user perspective, vista is lacking behind Kubuntu. With XGL/Beryl to be standard in Kubuntu in the spring, vista just got set back another 4 years. haha, seriously microsoft, you waste all that time and money and this is what you give us. Why don't you just take a copy of Kubuntu, throw some of your glitter on it and rebrand it. It would be a better product.
Vista? Nah, if I need windows for something anymore it's just for a few games. And linux is getting better all the time for that. - neko, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4"I guess this would start with the fact that they just don't have unified exe files."
ha ha HA HA HA
Oh man
Yes, I have long since discarded those useless lumps which fall over dead if they can't find some specific version of some specific .dll on your system. The ones that are all optimised for the 386 architecture even when you're running on a shiny new 64-bit processor. - clickwir, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Actually, from vendor released drivers. there are operations that are now faster on linux than windows.
Once they release full support drivers for linux and windows, I think we'll be seeing performance on par with each other, maybe linux even taking the lead a bit. -
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