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- Drizzit, on 10/12/2007, -2/+32I just love comments that have no supporting evidence. What exactly sir sucks about linspire?
This is a distro your grandmother could use. It comes with everything needed to playback about anything and has the largest out of the box extension compability of any distro out there. - thoughtcriminal, on 10/12/2007, -1/+18Forget what elitists say; intuitive simplicity is the bottom line for most users, and Linspire has it. They couple that with the benefits of Linux, and now have made it free. Seems pretty attractive to me.
- einfeldt, on 10/12/2007, -5/+18What do you mean garbage? I use Linspire 5.0 (as well as Mepis, Ubuntu, SuSE and Damn Small Linux) and I think that Linspire has a lot to be said for it. Their CNR apps installer can't be beaten for simplicity! I am a simple end user who is trying to come up to speed on the CLI, but until I get there, stuff like CNR helps we get stuff done.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -10/+20A "simple end user" who uses five different distributions (and somehow still can't run a real package manager)? Hmm....
- linshots, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10Freespire 5.0 Screenshots: http://shots.osdir.com/slideshows/slideshow.php?release=417&slide=3
- kalphegor, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9Linspire Calendar or should I say Mozilla Sunbird?
Linspire Internet Suite or Mozilla Firefox & Thunderbird?
At least Konqueror has the same name... - rm999, on 10/12/2007, -4/+12"Forget what elitists say; intuitive simplicity is the bottom line for most users, and Linspire has it."
I think elitists are the reason why Linux has not taken off, and never will. I tried, very seriously, to download and try linux a couple of years ago. The people on #Linux (i think it was efnet) were so little help to me, I gave up after a few hours.
I am now a CS grad student but I would never even consider Linux for my main OS because of the elitist attitude of Linux developers and (many of its) users. If the nerds can smell even a hint of n00biness in your you will be swamped with really bad jokes and very little help. It doesn't help that major distributions like fedora and ubuntu are not very user friendly IMO. Whenever a distribution comes out that is user friendly (like linspire) it is brought down and ridiculed by the elitists. I dare anyone here to go to #Linux and claim you need help getting your linspire install to work. - manfesto, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9Okay, here is my "beef" with Linspire/Freespire:
It's aimed at being as easy to use as possible, because it's aimed at people like your parents or whathaveyou. However, these same people are just as likely to go to Wal-Mart and buy a $10 greeting card program and wonder why it's not working on their computer. There's also the issue of support - nobody that works exclusively on Windows that you'd regularly go to for help (i.e. Billy, that computer kid, from down the street) will be able to help you, and I think it's a given that, statistically speaking, most people would be hardpressed to come up with a "Linux Guru" that they know (not to mention most Linux guys probably consider Linspire beneath them and will be condescending as hell when "helping"). That means that most end-user support has to come from Linspire.
I guess the point of my last bit of rambling is that Linspire is at the end of the day still Linux - sure it's user friendly, but it still won't run Windows software, and your tech-support options are severely cut, and those two things are very important to the general populous (that's why Dell's two big commercial selling points are its price and support).
//yes, I know that if all a person does is surf the internet and check e-mail, they're just fine
//but if that person ever gets an urge to go buy a game or calendar program, they're a bit screwed
I don't want to knock Linspire as a distro, as it seems to have a lot going for it, but I just don't think you should market Linux to people that know little or nothing about computers - they won't have the support they need. Linux on a whole still lacks the support to be a viable desktop OS for the masses.
As for Freespire, I honestly can't see it gathering a decent community backing - justified or not, it is scoffed at by most of the Linux community. I can see it now - Freespire's message boards trolled with recommendations to use Ubuntu instead.
I also don't like the idea of the CNR - to me, it seems like a paid version of Synaptic or Yum Extender - but if it really is open to the other distros, I may drop some cash for the legal DVD codec. - rm999, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8Tommstein
He says he uses them, maybe they are on different computers (eg. home, work)? I personally am a very novice Linux user and I have used >5 different distributions. - BenStockwell, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6I think the real good news here, is the fact that Click 'N Run will be opened up to other Linux distros, and not just Linspire/Freespire. This could mean legal and legitimate ways to playback DVDs, and use Windows Media codecs on distros like Ubuntu, MEPIS, Debian, SUSE, Fedora, etc, etc,.
- GuyHitByTruck, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6So what's the difference between the free version and the paid version. I would love to have this, but my first thought is "What are the limitations?" There's bound to be some.
- bobbob1016, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6The real problem is that people already know, for the most part, what Windows problems are and how to fix them, or hit them with a hammer until they are bent back into shape. They don't want to learn how to fix Linux issues. Linux is easier to install, or most of the popular ones are, but Windows is only easier to setup because there aren't as many professional Linux hardware drivers, because there aren't enough Linux users to have it make sense, and there aren't enough Linux users because there aren't enough drivers. It is catch-22, and that is how Microsoft likes it.
- pjh3000, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7The Linux Ubers just don't want others using "their" OS.
- ardnut, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7"They've coupled Linux with the security ***** of Windows" oh please tell me your not going on about the run as root thing they changed ages ago are you?
- stmiller, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5"I am now a CS grad student but I would never even consider Linux for my main OS because of the elitist attitude of Linux developers and (many of its) users."
Being a CS GRAD STUDENT I'm surprised you are having trouble setting up Linux. And also that in your school programs you have not used Linux(!) Linuxquestions.org is a good place for newbies, as well as google.com. The distro websites have documentation to help with installs. But after that, it's up to you. Mainly b/c people use Linux for so many different things. Look for install guides for your fav distro. There are plenty out there for Fedora, Ubuntu, others.
You must understand that Linux is a community driven thing. People complain left and right that 'this is missing, why doesn't this say this, etc...' Well- no one is getting paid to make the product like Microsoft/Apple.
It depends on community persons to make it better. This may seem bad at first, but this is actually better (bugs get fixed fast, security is fixed fast, etc.)
Good luck.
- thirdplanet, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5tommstien, after reading all your comments, yes, you are that elitest ***** that everyone refers to.
point in case. a year ago, my laptop crashed. Someone loaned me a live CD so I could get my files onto a USB hard drive. I never returned that live CD, and it started me on the path to linux. I now run Ubuntu on most of my computers. So naturally, I ordered 5 Ubuntu CDs and they gave them to me. I went to return that favor to that guy who started me with linux and gave him an Ubuntu CD...not burned, with an install and live disc. Not much, it was a good favor. The guy then went on to tell me Ubuntu wasn't good enough for him, and that he runs Debian. Making a joke, I say, I couldn't handle the 6 install CDs (referring to bloat, and yes, the 6 install CDs) He tells me any *non-idiot* would do a net install (which... I do not know how to do) and did not offer to help me with the net install.
I get the impression that this problem is systematic. Yes it's community driven, which is awesome, but I get the impression that some people in the community have the same superiority complex as the jocks that made their lives hell in high school. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I hate rebranding, gaim is "Instant Messenger", maybe program names names are easy to understand, but you won't know which app you are using. CNR is eye-candy apt front end. The worst thing about CNR is that you can't install open source apps for free without paid subscription.
- kiwimonk, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5OMG! Finally a free linux! This is AWSOME!!
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5I love these "'x' sucks" comments that have no backbone to them.
Why do you say Linspire sucks? It's a debian-based OS using KDE, you have all the capability here as with most other modern Linux distros. Is it because it is marketed towards those most familiar with windows, and would prefer their switch to be similar to the windows environment to keep themselves comfortable? No wonder we have switchers complaining about elitists scaring them off forums and irc chats.
I, myself, am an Ubuntu/Debian/Gnome fan, have never used Linspire, and dont plan on using it. But from what I know is that it is just as bit as capable as everything else.
I would like to also add that I am aware that Linspire requires payments to use their CNR software, which means their customers do have to pay for open-sourced software. I know they they can grab the same stuff from software repositories, but this is what is great about Linux: freedom of choice. Hey, pay if you want. If you dont care to pay, learn a little, and download and compile/install it yourself. - Drizzit, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5@tommstein
It was fixed in the same Mepis or Ubuntu has it fixed. There is no root access. If you need to run something as root you use Sudo.
People cling to the largest Linspire urban legend like it's some treasured toy. Let it go. - energeek, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Linspire sucks. Plain and Simple. And I am no elitist speaking. They don't suck because they make a distro which has all the eye-candy and nice DE that elitists do not prefer. They suck because:
1. The make Linux commercial. This applies to other commercial distros. They remove the very element of openness and community effort for which Linux is known.
2. The rebrand apps they could never create in their Wildest dreams. And I hate rebranding. So would the poor developers who made those apps. This isn't about some license allowing you to do it, this is about how you are showing disrespect to the developers. As somebody mentioned they put Firefox in a 'Internet suite'. From the screenshots I have seen, Lsongs seems to be juK and CNR is nothing but a fancy name for apt-get and a price tag.
Its about time the Linux world tried to stop emulating Windows so much. Its perfectly all right to create DEs which somewhat follow the Windows design. But its not good to create a distribution for Windows users. Its not we who should be dumbing down Linux, its them who should get cleverer and rise out of the asylum M$ has put them in.
You give a kid linux as the first OS they have ever used and they will take to it immediately. Its not a problem of un-userfriendliness, its just that adults refuse to change. Infact Linux should concentrate specifically on the School Desktop market and also we should be spreading Linux among the teens and tweens who accept change a lot easier, and are also more gadget friendly - flood6, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Here is a DesktopLinux article about the subject: www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS3743610207.html .
- trogdoor, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Not available for dapper iether.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Automatix isn't available for AMD64.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I think it's great news for people in USA, because it includes licensed codecs, but personaly i don't care, there are no software patents in EU.
- ardnut, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Yea that was changes ages ago, during the install you are prompted to setup a normal user acount and warned not to run as root.
- ghostaliaz, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Look I will never use Linspire myself, but for a newb it maybe a good choice expecially if that newb has had enough of the microsoft crap. My advise is if you are a newb try linspire if you like, but I think personally as once being a linux newb that mepis is the best as far as newbs because it gives you a chance to use apt-get & the fancy install software to install software, plus to all the people out there saying that linux does not play dvd's or play all of the vid codecs as windows, just has not done any google searches because I have all of the main codecs on my Mepis Linux System & I also can play DVD's, yeh I know it is not legal, but come on in this crazy world today shoot what is legal nowday's, so I say ad what you want to your Linux distro, shoot you can even use windows fonts, all you need to do is ad the repositories & then you will be straight, but God forbid you actually do a little bit of work. Look I know Ubuntu is a good Distro, but to me as an ex Linux Newbi, Mepis was the only distro to me that was worth even the download, plus it already has flash,java & many codecs already installed. Yeh & I know that these can be installed other ways, but I simply like the fact that mepis installs all of the have to haves from the jump, plus the people you know the communitys in the mepis forums are the best for newbs atleast I think so, they helped me so much. Look newbs use Linspire if that makes you happy, but just try Mepis & you will be like woh this is a good OS, plus people mepis has just joined the ubuntu camp as far as using the same foundation that ubuntu sits on or something like that, I do not know the whole story. i personally do not care what distro anyone uses as long as they use linux in someway, even if it is a spare pc, shoot it is a start anyway it goes.
- thinkdrastic, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4"there are no software patents in EU" - yet ;-)
- MihaiM, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Ubuntu Automatix
It's already here and does everything you need.
If you read carefully in the Freespire site you can find that you have to pay 30$/year for CNR. So it remains just another Debian based distribution. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Me personally wouldn't use Freespire, What I would use out of it is the KDE Theme, if someone could modify it by changing the "Launch" button to the normal KDE one, I would use it in my KDE distros
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Ensnared: OK imagine situation you are using "Instant Messenger" and you need some help. There are other plenty of other "Instant Messengers". You post new thread in forum and get a reply: "Which "Instant Messenger" you are talking about? That one who is based on QT, GTK or JAVA, and does it have big or small buttons?"
- MihaiM, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2How many people do have AMD64? Is Freespire AMD64 compatible? Anyway I am absolutely sure that Ubuntu without Automatix does everything that Freespire does.
There is no Automatix for Dapper but will be. Dapper is not yet out. An Automatix for Dapper will be out right after Dapper. - tagawa, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2While it's good that there's another distro to choose from, I can't help thinking that we're now just seeing the same system regurgitated with a new pretty theme each time.
I'd like to see more departures from the norm, with Symphony being a good example. I'm not knocking the tried and trusted distros and I also believe it's important to have choice and competition, but so many new distros seem to be springing up that don't add anything other than confusion. - CanuckMakem, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5Lindows... errr... Linspire. The distro your mom could use!! ;)
- Tsuroerusu, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3"Most linux users would never stand for that."
Then don't pay for it! But for novice users, we can't have them sit and find codec packages, install them and tweak file associations and stuff, it's not very intuitive, we need a legal way to playDVDs, Windows Media (Notice that Linspire got a license for WMV), QuickTime etc. etc. until the day OGG Vorbis and OGG Theora dominates the world, which will probably never happen. - Ensnared, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4"Linspire sucks. Plain and Simple. And I am no elitist speaking."
That - along with the rest of your post - reminds me of a lot of mails I get trying to sell me stuff while stating "this is not spam". Face it, you're an elitist, and one with a remarkable lack of vision. Do you think Linux would be what it is today without commercial support? Do you think it would receive the same commercial support if the commercial powers didn't think they could make money on it somehow and in so doing "making it commercial"?
Maybe that's how your fantasy works, but it has little to do with the real world.
And most of the "rebranding" is just names in the start-menu. The programs are still named with their correct names, but for a regular user, "gaim" doesn't mean anything, nor does "kopete" or "amarok". Requiring all users to know all applications in a distro by name is just stupid - if anything, we have ourselves to thank for this for keeping with the tradition of giving applications weird names. - AM088, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I am appalled by the people who say they used a billion distributions in the last hundred years and say that they like a horrible distribution because it's "simple." I'll tell you the following: the first time I ever saw Linux was 1 1/2 years ago(!). Nine months later, I had a working Gentoo installed, and it works just as I wanted to.
I recommend you all who spend so much time installing and re-installing various distros to stop wasting time and cd's. Go through the tutorial at linuxcommand.org to learn some LINUX BASICS, burn one Gentoo disk and follow the manual. If you think the community is full of elitists, don't use the irc; the people are more likely to help you on the forums.
Just remember: It is usually assumed that "rm -r /" is a command everyone knows is bad. Don't use it! - Rafikichi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Haha... those are screenshots from the dead SquiggleOS project. Google cache still says freespire.org has a TITLE of SquiggleOS. Looks like Linspire is picking up where Jasp left off. I was wondering why he stopped development on that project. It was a good idea.
- energeek, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Why? don't windows users have to remember MS word/excel etc, microsoft internet explorer, and more. You don't have to ask a user to remember, it happens automatically by habit, just as it does in windows when you first start using it. Linux would be right where it is now without commercial support. Commercial support is only required in the Enterprise and Server segment where modified, specific apps/features are needed. openSuSe could give Linspire a run for its money any time.
- rm999, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2But it will also mean paying for part of your OS, right? Most linux users would never stand for that.
- MihaiM, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Ubuntu is better because it has a great community and it's free.
Linspire is not free and Freespire is a stripped down version. - Ensnared, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Well, things like working multimedia out of the box isn't exactly common in Linux. You need to install extra stuff which isn't always easy to find or install for the average computer-user (that's not the techie, that's the guy who just wants to watch movies, play music, surf the web and read/write email on his computer).
And for americans with their precious patents and funky laws, something like this is extra usefull since they're not even allowed to install the extra stuff necessary for things like DVD playback. - TrueVox, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I'm not sure if I'm even good enough to be called a novice, and I've used a good number of distros too (Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Gentoo (not much gentoo, though), Puppy Linux, Helix, PCLinuxOS, SUSE, Mepis, Elive, and a few others). For me, I've tried them out for a few days just to see what was what. The only ones I've used with any regularity are Elive, Puppy, and Ubuntu.
- tuxuser, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1does linspire run live?
- CubeFarmDrone, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I have a livecd distro that I got from a torrent? I'd only recommend it as an OS for someone that hasn't ever touched a computer before. Those people are the only ones that wouldn't know what they are missing by installing a sub-par version of Linux that tries to sell you products directly from the OS .
- daeken, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I won't bother with the rest of the post, but I can say that LSongs is not a rebranded version of anything. It was written from scratch. (The author is a personal friend who used to work at Linspire, a sister company to the one I work for)
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+5If you confused that response with intolerable elitism, I think we found your problem.
Incidentally, earlier tonight I spent who knows how long trying to find a certain Windows network driver online because a roommate had to reinstall Windows and the CD didn't have the driver. You are confusing "my computer came with Windows preinstalled" with "Windows is easier to install and set up than Linux." - Iceduck, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2That "Launch" button desperately needs a redesign. Apart from that it actually looks kinda nice.
- evilgold, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1who pays for linux to begin with?
Well now that they have it for free, maybe i'll check out what all this hype about cnr is. As far as simplicty goes, I dont think its hard to remember "apt-get install somthing". - codester, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0These arguments about Linux are hilarious. Realize that you are arguing over computer software. How ridiculous is that?
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