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- schestowitz, on 10/11/2007, -9/+61Update: assuming your DNS is in sync, an aptly-name site is now up. http://www.boycottlinspire.com/
The company hands over Linux money to Microsoft, helps Microsoft escape the EU's wrath, and protects Microsoft's document formats monopoly.
Linspire is based on Ubuntu Linux (and formerly Debian-based). If you are using Linpire, you are encouraged to order your free Ubuntu CDs and make the simple migration. https://shipit.ubuntu.com/ - Phocion55, on 10/11/2007, -5/+33People say one bad thing about Linux is that there are too many distros to choose from.
I say, it's getting easier every day.
Scratch Linspire off your list. - benanzo, on 10/11/2007, -8/+36Those guys are retarded. They need to get the clue that they're never going to gain any market from the Novells, Red Hats and Ubuntus of the world. Despite the fact that Ubuntu doesn't ship with non-Free codecs, it still destroys Linspire in every way. Why? Because the community thinks Linspire is cheesy. They see them trying to emulate Windows (Lindows? puhlease!) in the worst kind of way. They try to make GNU/Linux into a cheap Windows (and they succeed.) That is why they'll never be taken seriously. They don't have an original thought. Be proud of GNU/Linux! Stop trying appeal to Windows users by making a low-class Windows wannabe. That's all they'll ever accomplish: a Windows wannabe.
- schestowitz, on 10/11/2007, -8/+33Stupid Linspire! Now we have to register another domain?
- inactive, on 10/11/2007, -4/+26See! This is the problem. The more companies that pussy out to Microsoft, the more pressure it puts on the entire community. Hopefully this is the last one.
- jbus, on 10/11/2007, -6/+25Well, Linspire will be totally screwed when GPLv3 comes out. They won't be able to distribute most of the GNU applications that they currently do and likely won't be able to distribute the Linux kernel at all, but at least they will be able to send instant messages to Microsoft and play Windows media. What a great business decision.
- Phocion55, on 10/11/2007, -2/+19Yep. 3 down. 1,355 to go.
- PhinnFort, on 10/11/2007, -4/+19Well, his actions doesn't seem to follow his words to you. Simple as that.
And the reason people respond negatively to these deals, is that it comes nothing that the community gains out of it. Microsoft hasn't released any specs on any of it's video codecs, nor on it's document formats. You should start taking what you read with a grain of salt.
FOSS isn't at a critical mass yet, so I think the argument that Microsoft needs better compatibility is kind of BS. They rather want to stop it dead in the train tracks BEFORE it reaches critical mass. - Red_Eye, on 10/11/2007, -3/+16Its a linux feeding frenzy at MS. First Suse/Novell, then that other distro whats it called? And now linspire. Its almost as if MS is really trying to assimilate Linux....
- SouLFacE, on 10/11/2007, -0/+12Summary of some points in eweek (http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,2146169,00.asp) article:
* Windows Live Search will also become the default Web search engine in Linspire
* Linspire did not provide any of its patent rights to Microsoft under the deal, given that it held very few such rights
* Linspire will now [be] involved in developing and distributing open-source translators that allow OpenOffice and Microsoft Office users to better share documents
* Linspire will license Microsoft's RT Audio Codec (a device or program capable of encoding and decoding a digital data stream) to promote voice-enabled interoperability between Linspire's Pidgin instant messaging client and Windows Live Messenger
* Linspire will support the latest Windows Media 10 audio and video codecs
* Linspire will also license popular Microsoft TrueType fonts, including Arial, Georgia, Times New Roman and Verdana - gravedigg, on 10/11/2007, -5/+16Linspire is just rolling over to Microsoft because they can't take the heat. They're trying to cover their own butts by bowing down to Microsoft and selling out. I don't see how this is a good move at all. They're basically spitting in the face of the Linux community. Good riddance.
- inactive, on 10/11/2007, -2/+13Linspire and Microsoft collaborating? Didn't see that coming!
Linspire news release can be found at
http://www.linspire.com/lindows_news_pressreleases.php - latova, on 10/11/2007, -0/+11QUOTE
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Additionally, in a blow to search engine leader Google, Linspire will make Microsoft's Live.com search engine the default Linspire 5.0 web search engine, "allowing Microsoft to bring Live Search to a broader set of users and providing leading search capabilities to Linspire customers," a Linspire news release said.
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Oh comeon linspire. Now we just know you're ***** us. - GnuTzu, on 10/11/2007, -2/+13> "The mantra of the day is interoperability. It seems that even Microsoft is acknowledging that their customers are demanding interoperability"
Keep in mind: Interoperability depends upon standards...
...and I have little doubt that Microsoft would love it if the the standards depended upon their patents.
These patent deals are apparently designed to give credence to Microsoft's patents.
Microsoft's reluctance to name the allegedly violated patents strongly suggests that they know the patents are week and might easily be knocked down. But, getting Open Source groups to sign off on patent deals, and gaining a prominent role in the establishment of standards before Microsoft is willing to reveal the relevant patents, could allow Microsoft to gain some control over the dominant standards for interoperability.
If this seems a bit reaching, consider that a little bit of influence goes a long way. This is how lobbying works, and guess who spends plenty 'o cash on that.
I think these patent deals will, unfortunately, strengthen the appearance of authority that Microsoft holds in establishing standards.
If we really want freedom of choice, the standards really need to be seen as coming from the community and not from some patent deal with Microsoft. At least, if Microsoft is going to participate, then we can't let them have the appearance that Microsoft has a 50% role--which gives them and an undo status in establishing standards.
We need the standards to remain truly open. - Elranzer, on 10/11/2007, -4/+15What was the last thing Linspire contributed? Nvu?? They stopped development on that years ago. Their Linux OS is a half-assed Debian project with DRM and a pay-for version of apt.
- crimson117, on 10/11/2007, -1/+11Are there any protections for customers if Windows is found to have violated open-source patents or copyrighted code?
- generalloy, on 10/11/2007, -2/+11"Maybe Microsoft has no choice but to pay Novell $480 million dollars for its deal."
Novell pays Microsoft royalties based on the amount of Linux revenues. If Linux will grow as you say it will, I'd call that a victory for Microsoft. Not to mention that they could raise royalty rates any time.
500 million is nothing to Micro "44 billion" Soft. - benanzo, on 10/11/2007, -1/+9Up until last November I was an openSuSe user. Then when Novell sold out, I switched to Ubuntu. I cringe at the thought of Shuttleworth signing any such deal with Microsoft. I seriously can't imagine that he ever would, but that doesn't mean that I don't have a contingency plan. I am tired of distro-hopping in an effort to avoid MS' big thumb. If Ubuntu ever goes, I am switching to Debian as my final move. I have joy in my heart knowing that I will always have Free software /home if I want it.
- thinman1189, on 10/11/2007, -2/+10Another one bites the dust. First Suse, then Xandros and now Linspire. Oh well, at least we still have Mandriva, Fedora Core, Gentoo and Ubuntu (which has recently become partners with Dell and Intel so Ubuntu won't be going anywhere anytime soon).
- inactive, on 10/11/2007, -2/+10
Finally we can see Microsoft's strategy. - RoadWarriorX11, on 10/11/2007, -3/+11Looks like I have a new frisbee that says "freespire" on it.
- ylikone, on 10/11/2007, -0/+7Microsoft's checklist...
[x] SuSE (failing, easy target)
[x] Xandros (failing, easy target)
[x] Linspire/Freespire (failing, easy target)
[ ] Mandriva (failing, easy target)
[ ] Redhat/Fedora (they have money, might be a hard one to crack, concentrate on patent lawsuits)
[ ] Ubuntu/Kubuntu/Xubuntu (they have community, might be a hard one to crack, concentrate on patent lawsuits)
[ ] Slackware (who cares, only hardcore nerds use this, ignore for now)
[ ] Gentoo (who cares, only hardcore nerds use this, ignore for now)
[ ] Debian (they have militant community, might be impossible to crack, ignore for now) - cooppw02, on 10/11/2007, -5/+12Scorecard:
Windows Live Search as the default: -1
"Patent protection": -10
OpenXML/ODF compatibility - this sounds like a good thing, but MSFT and Novell are already creating plugins for Office and OO.o, so it sounds like a duplication of efforts: 0
Linspire will license Microsoft's RT Audio Codec: +.5 (Voice chat is kinda useless; pick up the phone if you want to talk)
Linspire will support the latest Windows Media 10 audio and video codecs: +.5 (Doesn't VLC and its associated libraries already do this, albeit in a patent-violating way?)
Linspire will license TrueType fonts: +.5 (msttcorefonts doesn't violate patents or copyrights, it just isn't usually included in base repositories for licensing issues)
Total: -9.5
Thanks Linspire! - Ssullivan, on 10/11/2007, -1/+7They could make the price free but you still wouldn't have your freedoms.
- Shadowman, on 10/11/2007, -2/+8Looks like they are targeting commercial distros. It has been reported that Ballmer and Matthew Szulik "did lunch" recently. I hope Red Hat doesn't do anything stupid.
- jonnyq, on 10/11/2007, -2/+8@jbus
That assumes that Linus and every copyright holder on the kernel agrees to license it under GPLv3, which I still highly doubt.
But yeah, this is frikkin stupid. It's just setting a bad precedent. It makes it sound like Linux distros are admitting guilt in violating these mysterious patents that Microsoft has yet to identify (and that assumes those patents are actually valid) - PhinnFort, on 10/11/2007, -1/+7@jonnyq:
AFAIK, the entire GNU userland will be GPL 3 the minute it is ratified. That means GCC, glibc, bash, binutils, classpath, etc. - pcghost, on 10/11/2007, -3/+9Have all the no-real-user-base distros lost their f***ing mind? Not that I ever used LinDOS or whatever the hell they are calling that abortion of a Linux distro. Other than the trend it continues, at least Microsoft is taking out all the lame distros. As long as Debian, Red Hat, Slackware, and Gentoo don't go down this path, let the small lame fish get eaten. Good riddance lindows.
It did suck to lose SuSE though. Score one for Redmond on that one. - GMorgan, on 10/11/2007, -0/+5Canonical's business plan is built around community. Even if you don't trust Shuttleworth you can trust that he has no choice in the matter.
- theghoul, on 10/11/2007, -2/+7Theres treachery afoot.
- einfeldt, on 10/11/2007, -8/+13Few people have a dislike for Microsoft that is as deep and abiding as that of Linspire Chairman Michael Robertson. I have spent probably 10 hours interviewing and emailing with Michael Robertson over the course of several years in producing the Digital Tipping Point film, and I am certain of a few things about Michael Robertson: 1) he is passionate about consumer choice; 2) he loathes monopolies; 3) he is determined to see Linspire succeed commercially; 4) he firmly believes that the freedom to share and modify source code is a key to everything that he does on a daily basis; 5) he would never do anything that he believes will harm OpenOffice.org or GNU.org or the Linux kernel project or any other major FOSS project; 6) he is highly motivated to break the Microsoft monopoly; 7) he is passionate about seeing GNU Linux and FOSS gain widespread market share.
So if Michael Robertson approved this deal, as he must have in any deal of this importance involving Linspire, there are only a few reasonable conclusions, IMHO: 1) Michael believes that this deal will permit Linspire to gain customers; 2) Michael believes that this deal will foster more widespread adoption of desktop GNU LInux; 3) or, Michael Robertson has made a tremendous business blunder. I am personally inclined to rule out possibility 3 (a massive blunder on Michael Robertson's part) because he is a very astute businessman. I mean, this is the guy who was sued by Microsoft for calling his business Lindows, and comes out of the lawsuit $20 million USD ahead. - einfeldt, on 10/11/2007, -5/+10I just read Linspire CEO Kevin Carmony's most recent Linspire Letter (his weekly blog), which raises some points that I had not understood as clearly as after reading Kevin's blog.
http://www.linspire.com/linspire_letter_archives.php?id=48
Kevin points out that Apple resolved patent disputes in a 1997 deal with Microsoft, and of course both Apple and Microsoft have grown in both revenues and market capitalization since then. Apple, in fact, has experienced market capitalization growth of 1,600% since early 2003 according to this Dugg article:
http://digg.com/apple/Options_Trade_Cost_Steve_Jobs_4_Billion_sick_a_4Billion_mistake
The mantra of the day is interoperability. It seems that even Microsoft is acknowledging that their customers are demanding interoperability in a mixed Windows / Linux environment, and these are big customers like Deutsche Telecom and AIG. Kevin repeats several times that he feels that FOSS is about choice, that his customers are demanding choice, and he wants to provide them with that choice.
Many people in the FOSS communities are responding negatively to these Microsoft-Novell type deals, and I remain queasy about the deals, simply because Microsoft is a formidable opponent whose considerable power is based on its monopoly status. Surely, Microsoft would not enter any deal which did not leave our FOSS communities weaker; at least that is my personal gut impulse and the basis for my discomfort with these deals. Surely Microsoft must be preparing to file budget-breaking patent infringement lawsuits against Debian developers or Red Hat or some other member of our community; at least that is the mistrust that has been gnawing at the back of my head. And maybe Microsoft will file such suits (although I doubt that those lawsuits have any merit, so probably not).
Kevin Carmon's 14 June 2007 blog has left me thinking that maybe Microsoft really is being compelled by its customers' demands to learn technical interoperability with GNU Linux. After all, FOSS solutions have been growing at a tremendous pace, and most of Microsoft's customers already are using FOSS throughout their organization. Maybe we, the FOSS community, really have arrived. Maybe we are starting to force Microsoft's hand. Maybe Microsoft has no choice but to pay Novell $480 million dollars for its deal. - GnuTzu, on 10/11/2007, -5/+9Linspire, if I remember correctly, is among those that want to include proprietary codecs for multimedia.
So, no we can expect that every distro that wants to include proprietary codecs will be blackmailed into a patent deal with Microsoft. - BrandonMills, on 10/11/2007, -4/+8I still say the most devastating thing Microsoft could do in the OS war is to make a stripped-down version of XP free.
- Phocion55, on 10/11/2007, -2/+6Something can't be "patented" and "open sourced" at the same time. This is why Microsoft loves open source. They can leech off of it as much as they want, but still aimlessly bitch about people violating their own IP.
But dugg up for Billy Breathes - BrandonMills, on 10/11/2007, -4/+8You mean at least we have the good ones :)
I loaded OpenSuse yesterday, and I about vomited. The thing is modified to look like an XP-wannabe. It's easy to see why so many original SUSE employees are fleeing Novell these days. SUSE is a horrible, dead shell of what it used to be. I'm sure the switching from KDE to Gnome had to be a blow to SUSE users in-general, given how close the SUSE distro was with the KDE team back in the days.
As long as I have my Redhat, Ubuntu, and Gentoo, I'll be fine. :) - nightstar, on 10/11/2007, -3/+7If you cant beat them then EAT them....
Typical MS thinking... - Chupatumama, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4First of all, Carmony has all the charms of a lawyer and all the mannerisms of a used car salesman.
Im not even going to bother rehashing his brilliant idea of having Rob 'rear' Enderle as a speaker to a Linux conference but both have the same knack of misusing words to suit their needs.
Ever see that slick politician who is a great orator, says the right things yet makes you feel dirty?
That's Carmony.
>Kevin points out that Apple resolved patent disputes in a 1997 deal with Microsoft, and of course
>both Apple and Microsoft have grown in both revenues and market capitalization since
Yes, that is exactly why. Not.
Apple was a dead company that stayed afloat thanks to Microsoft.
Mainly because they needed their tiny little competitor alive to keep that ugly word 'monopoly' away.
Apple does not compete with Microsoft, they are the little gnat that is annoying but harmless to their core business.
More importantly the companies are ruled by the same principles.
To say "See, Apple and Microsoft resolved patent disputes and now both are making a mint,
so we are going to do the same and full of wonderufl things are going to happen."
is EXACTLY THE REASON I dont trust Carmony.
I give him credit for his command of the english language and his mastery of obfuscation.
I actually believe Ballmer more than Carmony.
Never once does Baldy speak with a forked tongue.
>The mantra of the day is interoperability.
That is totall BS.
ONLY one company makes interoperability a problem.
Guess which one?
This is the PR you sling out there hoping it sticks, you know like 'WMD or genocide". - BrandonMills, on 10/11/2007, -3/+7Microsoft just doesn't get it still. You can't make headway into the Linux market by buying single distros. You have to release your programs for use on every distro. Only then will they really make headway in preserving their proprietary codecs and standards, which is at the core of what Microsoft is these days when it comes to Operating Systems.
- GMorgan, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4Only bum distros being eaten. Novell the only major player and MS paid them loads and gave them masses of concessions. MS has lost billions on this so far and if *only* Red Hat sticks to their guns they will never recoup it. That is what I can't understand, for MS to win they must take out all the distros. If only one offers direct indemnification (as Red Hat do, they are legally bound to cover all patent trolling costs) then MS just lose stacks of money on this.
Not a sound business plan in the end. Unless they truly believed Red Hat would cave. - Ssullivan, on 10/11/2007, -4/+7As long as Slackware, Debian, Red Hat, or Gentoo never make such a deal with MS we'll be OK.
- TheNameless88, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3Another one bites the dust.
I guess if nothing else, we're seeing who are the by-and-large dumb vendors in the Linux community. - inactive, on 10/11/2007, -1/+4Don't insult gays.
- muszek, on 10/11/2007, -6/+9Actually I don't mind them doing that - if it's appealing to some, that can only be a good thing.
The patent protection deal, on the other hand, is a suicide - most of us won't touch suse/xandros/linspire for a long time. - db113456, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2So Linspire, well, just on a side note, last Sunday, we had an install fest, and one of the installations i done was to replace a Linspire with a Mandriva http://www.mandriva.com/en/community/ , heh, people have a critical eye for this kind of behavior, and they don't like it one bit. One a side note, i do have grave problems with Linspire extremely limited licensing terms, and their murky terms regarding their CNR technology. These Distros have lost their bearings, and should be discarded by the community and forgotten. And getting CNR for Ubuntu is no big deal, it is more to the lines of using urpmi or apt-get to manage your packages, yes CNR enables commercial / non free and proprietary software, but in a sense, it is little more than an on line shopping cart, that enables the users to buy and install these type of software. Now i am not supporting this idea, just saying that the deal and CNR are 2 different and distinct things.
- daverave999, on 10/11/2007, -2/+4That, is a most interesting suggestion.
- inactive, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2 I doubt it will...My take is this pertains to Linspire only. and not users of CNR.
- inactive, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2 I bet Mandriva is next...Microsoft will first take out all the for-profit distros and then sink it's chops into the rest at it's leisure.
- inactive, on 10/11/2007, -3/+5
Here we go again... *rolleyes* - einfeldt, on 10/11/2007, -1/+2@ GnuTzu,
I agree with you that open standards and Free Software are the goals that we should continue to strive for as a global community. And I personally am not standing up and cheering that these deals with Microsoft have been struck.
But I do know one thing: one of the most powerful FOSS projects, OpenOffice.org (OOo) has a much, much larger install base on Windows than on GNU Linux. IMHO, OOo is one of the best tools that we (the FOSS community) can use to get FOSS in front of the broad mass of Windows users who don't have a clue as to what FOSS is or why freedom is important. I spend hours every week volunteering as a level one tech support for FOSS apps at a local public middle school in San Francisco. My experience there has taught me that when I talk about freedom, the teachers' eyes glaze over. They are too burned out trying to teach kids to care about freedom. They all use non-Free software (Mac or Windows) and they simply don't care about freedom, nor do they even understand it.
I like Linspire because they do a good job of getting SOME Free Software in front of people who otherwise would not use FOSS at all. I can tell you from personal experience in spending hundreds and hundreds of hours with Windows users that it takes a LONG time to get people to care about freedom. You first have to show them that FOSS works, and that it will do something concrete for them.
So for those of you who are opposed to Linspire or Novell or Xandros, I would urge you to put your money where your mouth is, and commit yourself to moving ONE, just one small organization near you to FOSS. You will see how difficult it is. I would absolutely love the school where I volunteer to move to gNewSense or Ubuntu tomorrow. But I have spent two years getting them to support just one K12LTSP lab. I have put Mepis boxes in most of the classrooms, and they go unused.
So please go out and give it a try yourself. The experience will change you, I guarantee it. -
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