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- Dumbledorito, on 12/30/2007, -2/+89I love this headline. It's like reading moon-language if you don't follow tech news.
- z0mbie2099, on 12/30/2007, -9/+95"And maybe, if we're lucky, this choice will be one small step toward moving beyond the problem that there have to be different Ubuntu flavors with different user interfaces in the first place."
This is the first time I've heard of Linux variants being a problem. I think the flexibility is pretty awesome.
"Now Linux users are stuck not just with two user interfaces, but often two sets of accompanying control panels, music players, modem-dialing utilities, command-line interface consoles, Web browsers, and more."
Welcome to the world of Linux, where there are alternatives. Okay, who feels "stuck" with two interface, stuck anyone? Anyone? - trotskyist, on 12/30/2007, -1/+62Throw a semicolon in that title.
Seriously. - dumbkiwi, on 12/30/2007, -1/+45All this article says is that Kubuntu 8.04 won't be LTS because of the transition from kde3 to kde4. Nothing more, nothing less. Ignore the sensationalist title - nothing to see here - move on.
- nirvanix, on 12/30/2007, -3/+24Huh? What a load of FUD. Canonical is not demoting or promoting anything. They just don't want to be on the front line for all of the support questions for a major software release that isn't THEIR software. I don't blame them.
Nice try Gnome weasels... - dougbarrett, on 12/30/2007, -0/+20It will be, Kubuntu 8.04 will only be supported for 18 months whereas Ubuntu 8.04 will be supported for 3 years.
- harlowsmonkeys, on 12/30/2007, -3/+19Alternatives that you can't choose between aren't really alternatives. Having N interfaces available is great, if I get to pick which one is used. But for many parts of the interface, I don't get to pick--it is the application programmer who picks.
Example: I like KDE open/save dialogs better than the other half-dozen styles of open/save dialogs that I can find in various apps on my system. But do non-KDE apps respect my preference and use KDE open/save dialogs? Nope. They use whatever dialogs came with the GUI toolkit their author used. - shawnanigans, on 12/30/2007, -1/+15And Adept Package Manager is terrible compared to Synaptic.
- alexforcefive, on 12/30/2007, -1/+15He was saying there isn't really a choice at all. Congrats on your reading comprehension.
- Jammerdelray, on 12/30/2007, -1/+14Linux is about choice, the choice to have Gnome or Kde, the choice to have whatever software you want without being forced to use it.
- kettlechips, on 12/30/2007, -1/+12You won't be getting 5 year support on a beta version of KDE 4. Shut up and deal with it,
- kurtergad87, on 12/30/2007, -1/+12You do realize that a headline _should_ work like that in English grammar? All words (except 'and', 'in', 'is', 'by' and similar) should be capitalized on the first letter. Just take a look at the New York Times or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalization#Headin ...
- mikelieman, on 12/30/2007, -0/+10I would suggest there's a big helping of Ignorance running through this thread.
The idea of LTS is to provide Long Term Support for installations needing it.
What SERVER INSTALLATION needs a Desktop Manager ( and/or X at all ) in a production environment? I just don't see a Database Server running a screensaver ( or even having a keyboard, mouse, and monitor... ) - s14sh3r, on 12/30/2007, -1/+11I'm a Linux noob, having started out with Ubuntu, then trying Kubuntu. I can't make up my mind whether I prefer Gnome or KDE. They both have their virtues, but both have their set of problems, too. I'm not giving up, though, and hopefully one day I'll make up my mind which one to stick with.
- freehunter, on 12/30/2007, -1/+11Being able to use anything is wonderful, but hell on inexperienced users, and even I have found myself cursing Gnome and KDE. I like KPPP and Amarok better than Gnome PPP and Rhythmbox, but I prefer the Gnome interface, as it makes me swear at the configuration less often. However, this means I need to have the KDE libs installed and switch interfaces, which detracts from the experience of the UI. I like having a choice, but I wish Linux would agree to standardize a few things, like install packages and user interface generalities.
- trogdoor, on 12/30/2007, -1/+11No, he is not saying that. He never even mentioned OS X or Windows. You did.
stop putting words in other people's mouths. - Waterrat, on 12/30/2007, -0/+9 I'm not stuck...And if I want,I can step out into using E17,etc...
- moocow1452, on 12/30/2007, -1/+9I could stop using KDE if I wanted to, I swear. Tomorrow!
- bejayel, on 12/30/2007, -0/+7The way i read the article. There should only be 1, MAYBE 2 Kubuntu releases that dont get LTS. Its only because of the 3.5 -> 4.0 transition. Your not being forced anywhere. Besides, ask yourself this: WHY do you need LTS on a desktop OS with a GUI anyway? LTS is meant for server editions where upgrading is ne'er thought of untill its absolutely required, or the boss wants it.
- kwilliam, on 12/30/2007, -1/+8Helpful hints: 1) KDE has more features. 2) KDE 4 is being actively developed by many, many people. (Mostly in Europe.) Gnome has no plans for a Gnome 3 at this time. 3) When all the bugs finally get ironed out of KDE 4, I think it's going to be pretty sweet.
Haha, that's just my bias. My real advice, is figure out what applications you like best (Amarok vs. Rythmbox, Konqueror vs. Nautilus, Kopete vs. Pidgin, etc) and pick the DE that *more* of your preferred applications were built for. Or just screw them both, and use Fluxbox or something. - Stonekeeper, on 12/30/2007, -0/+7You could therefore argue that gnome has the more consistent interface, not changing much. IMHO that's mostly a good thing.
- martalli, on 12/30/2007, -0/+7I agree that KDE is basically where it is at right now. The lack of major movement in Gnome could also be interpreted as stability, and that is not necessarily bad. The gnome world is moving along with compiz-fusion. While that can also be used in KDE, I think many KDE follks are waiting to see how well the integrated composting engine works in KDE 4.x
- plr4ever, on 12/30/2007, -2/+9Oh SHUTUP already!
- dgh1973, on 12/30/2007, -10/+16"This is the first time I've heard of Linux variants being a problem. I think the flexibility is pretty awesome. "
Are you kidding? It's THE problem - vendors don't know whether to package binary code in rpm's, deb's, self extracting installers... even then you have the problem of libc/ABI compatibility across some distributions. What compiles and runs on one distro may not run out of the box on another due to some slight differences in libc versions.
It may not be a problem for the laymen to worry about, but in terms of widespread acceptance it's one of the primary things holding Linux back right now. It seems Ubunutu is poised to fix this just by virtue of the fact that it's quickly becoming the main distro to support in terms of popularity. - kazamx, on 12/30/2007, -0/+6Yup. I love the fact that Ubuntu and kubuntu are sticking to 1Live CD as the standard install. It means as they add more and more to the OS they have to make the old stuff more efficient or cut out the crap in order to get it to fit on the 1CD. Moving to 2CD or a DVD just invites bloat. If they have 700MB they will fill it. If they have 5GB they will fill that too.
- KAMiKAZOW, on 12/30/2007, -0/+6Try the KDE live CD of openSUSE 10.3. IMHO openSUSE's KDE is nicer.
- martalli, on 12/30/2007, -0/+6I think the LTS is just to give the distribution some business credibility on the desktop. I suppose that some businesses would rather not do upgrades with every release. Fresh installs mean loss of prior setup, and would be an overall hassle for larger companies.
For the enthusiast, 7 month support would be just about right =) - bejayel, on 12/30/2007, -0/+6"The Linux" has support and resources everywhere. The idea behind it is choice. Linux is for people who dont want to be tied down to simple standardized things. We get to choose our experience.
- martalli, on 12/30/2007, -1/+6Gentoo is not the only distro with a rolling release....I can think of several others including Arch and Debian testing among others. It seems to me that Gentoo does have releases, though. Are these just snapshots?
- Vektuz, on 12/30/2007, -0/+5This makes sense, to be fair.
Kubuntu is great, and my favorite, but... if they push kde4 out with the next release, it WILL NOT BE READY, at least not ready for long term support. Its not ready now, and it wont be ready then. Their alternative is to leave it as kde3, and offer long term support, but nobody interested in KDE/kubuntu wants that either. - Klowner, on 12/30/2007, -0/+5Whose gnome was thumbed up by a Cannon iCal and what did he do to earn a "kubuntu" demotion?
grammars is fun! - martalli, on 12/30/2007, -0/+5I agree, but upgrading between distributions sometimes presents hiccups. I have rarely had problems with such upgrades, but I suspect that an IT department would probably want to minimize the frequency of such upgrades. Look at how tepidly they are approaching Vista upgrades, even though it has been five years since XP came out. I think that is less of an issue in Linux than Windows, but the principle of IT tech time = money for the corporation still applies.
- mikewhite314, on 12/30/2007, -0/+5but wasn't there just a mailing list post about how KDE4 would be in Hardy?
- martalli, on 12/30/2007, -0/+5Canonical's support for KDE is much less than its support for Gnome. Thus, features (such as the restricted-modules package) are often delayed in Kubuntu be a release or more from ubuntu. Not to knock Jonathon Riddell, he is doing a great job on a showstring compared to the ubuntu team.
However, many people may think of KDE as soemthing less than gnome because of their experience in ubuntu...but that is merely a function of the choices made by Canonical. In fact, Canonical brought Kubuntu into the main fold because of overwhelming community support for KDE. - KAMiKAZOW, on 12/30/2007, -0/+5On the same CD? You mean DVD, right? A CD is pretty small for both.
- raynevandunem, on 12/30/2007, -0/+5So Canonical made a *choice* to support GNOME-Ubuntu Hardy longer than Kubuntu Hardy?
Also, what harlowsmonkeys said. In the end, the application developer(s) and distributor(s), not the user, always make the choice to support a particular feature. The user can change this or that feature to his own liking (if he knows what he's doing), but then he becomes responsible for those changes and whatever screwups that will happen with that system as a result. - martalli, on 12/30/2007, -0/+4>Nice try Gnome weasels...
Well, I wouldn't have put it that way, but... =) - srg13, on 12/30/2007, -1/+5More choice? How is having one window manager more choice than having several different ones to choose from, each of which is usually more customisable than the windows/Mac OS ones?
- alexforcefive, on 12/30/2007, -1/+5I seriously thought Kubunto had killed off their mascot or something, and then I was like "why would KDE use a gnome as its mascot?"
- Darkhacker, on 12/30/2007, -0/+4> "KDE 4 is being actively developed by many, many people. (Mostly in Europe.) Gnome has no plans for a Gnome 3 at this time."
GNOME is being actively developed too. The fact that it doesn't have plans for GNOME 3 is a *good* thing because it means they can be binary/source compatible. A major version increment implies that all applications have to be ported, which isn't an easy task. GNOME is adding more features in incremental steps to provide more stability and compatibility. - omghax, on 12/30/2007, -8/+12I prefer Gnome, KDE is too clunky for me. Regardless of "all it's fancy features", Gnome just works and isn't hard to just look at and figure out. Maybe one day I'll love KDE as much as I love Gnome, but until that time...
- martalli, on 12/30/2007, -0/+418 months of security upgrades is unsupported?
- cantormath, on 12/30/2007, -2/+6the next version of Ubuntu will see KDE unsupported, but only for the time being. Because of the dramatic changeover from KDE 3.5 to 4.0, Ubuntu sponsor Canonical is unwilling to initially support the popular Linux GUI. Gnome will still be supported, and the company expects to return support to kubuntu soon.
That seems like a responsible reason. - zwaldowski, on 12/30/2007, -0/+4Do you know how many people still run Windows 2000 in businesses?
- pgiessel, on 12/30/2007, -1/+5From the original article:
"Frankly, the more interesting rival is XFCE (used in an Ubuntu variant called Xubuntu), a spartan, utilitarian interface that forsakes glitz in favor of working on machines without vast quantities of memory, and the latest processors and graphics chips."
I run XFCE on all my FreeBSD boxes (except the 1U server which has no XWindows installed). I like it a lot more than either Gnome or KDE, although I do use Konsole... - Chicken001, on 12/30/2007, -0/+4Phew, scared me.
- JayEss, on 12/30/2007, -4/+7I enjoy how this article talks about how Kubuntu is less popular, but fails to mention that if you want to get Kubuntu, you have to jump through a few hoops, while plain Gnome Ubuntu can be found nearly everywhere. When I used Ubuntu, switching from windows, Kubuntu confused the crap out of me, having only used windows and an old SuSe box with KDE on it. My current Gentoo build runs great with KDE 3.5, and will get the 4.0 as soon as I get around to it, because the interface is just so much more familiar to a user who is more familiar with Windows.
- SJurgenson, on 12/30/2007, -1/+4Kubuntu is not being "demoted". The real news is that Kubuntu 8.04 won't be a Long Term Release (3 years of support) like Ubuntu 8.04 due to the upcoming transition to KDE4. Instead it will get the 18 months of support like non-LTS releases. KDE4 isn't ready yet for stable deployment and KDE 3.5.x won't have the attention of the KDE developers it currently does, bringing up the possibility that it won't get the timely bug fixes it does now and could be hard to keep up-to-date three years down the road.
Plain and simple: Kubuntu 8.04 won't be a LTS release due to the current transition from KDE 3.5.x to KDE4. Kubuntu, as a distribution and side-project to Ubuntu, is not having its status or importance changed. -
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