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Jesus + Linux = Ubuntu Christian Edition?

christianubuntu.com — "Ubuntu Christian Edition is a free, open source operating system geared towards Christians." Along with the standard Ubuntu applications, Ubuntu Christian Edition includes "Christian software" such as web filters and bible study programs.

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  • Frinkahedron, on 10/12/2007, -6/+19Would installing Jesus fix automatically fix all driver related problems and connect to wireless networks instantly?
    • XAsmodeaNX, on 10/12/2007, -9/+7Yes. Jesus can do anything. Didn't you know?
    • tekmonkey, on 10/12/2007, -6/+10He's Jewish.

      (and I'm not joking, I know him IRL)
    • aptget, on 10/12/2007, -4/+16I'd like an Ubuntu Scientology Edition with a really cool Tom Cruise wallpaper!

      (sarcasm)
    • danglerman, on 10/12/2007, -10/+4i can only say one thing: "are you serious?!!"
    • ThiagoAugusto, on 10/12/2007, -6/+1If this Jesus version exist in windows i think:
      plug and play....if don´t works:
      plug and pray....if don´t works:
      ctrl + alt + god
    • Rub3X, on 10/12/2007, -4/+1Way to combine the worst religion and Linux distro in to one.
  • becominglumberg, on 10/12/2007, -0/+58This actually caused a HUGE riot on the Ubuntu forums. Some people have forgotten that the purpose of OSS is to allow people to make it as they see fit. If this guy wants Christian Ubuntu, good for him. If a Jewish guy wants Rabbuntu, great. And if a follower of the Flying Spaghetti Monster wants to make Pastubuntu, that would be AWESOME.
    • Weav, on 10/12/2007, -6/+21Digging because of Pastabuntu
    • dpcamp, on 10/12/2007, -8/+3damn those flying spaghetti monsters and their pastubuntu!!!!
    • starchylde20, on 10/12/2007, -4/+1Pastubuntu: Linux for Pasta Monsters.
    • sharperguy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0It's more like Pastubuntu - Linux For Pirates

      Or just "Ubuntu Pastafarian Edition"

      Anyway this would be real great!
  • slink3r, on 10/12/2007, -9/+11And with built-in filters for any content regarding evolution.
    • longofest, on 10/12/2007, -8/+19Dude, it may seem weird, but many Christians actually enjoy keeping up with Evolution theory. Personally, I still don't buy a lot of what evolution says, but I still like keeping up on the latest from what evolutionists say so I can continually evaluate my stance and in general be up-to-date on what the theory states.
    • itanshi, on 10/12/2007, -11/+2mm i dun comment on this much, but i do have an anecedote, back in grade school the teaher i had did both religion and history, he taught us both (no term back then save for creationism)

      so yeah i dunno
    • bayonetblaha, on 10/12/2007, -4/+5@longofest:

      I don't know about you personally, but it seems to me that most christians want evolution OUT of the schools. That fits with slink3r's comment, I think.
    • dot2guy, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7@bayonetblaha:
      @longofest:
      "I don't know about you personally, but it seems to me that most christians want evolution OUT of the schools."

      Half of Christians are Catholics, so they generally accept evolution because the Pope does. Usually it is primarily evangelical Christians (formerly known as Fundamentalists) who take the Bible *extremely* literally and use it to "debunk evolution."

      Nevertheless, evolution does have its flaws (or at least shortcomings!) - both as a paradigm and a program/philosophy. The Intelligent Design movement (spearheaded by Behe, Demski, and formerly, Berkeley law prof Phillip E. Johnson) has been effective in pointing out some of the latter, especially.
  • benlevon, on 10/12/2007, -14/+21Fellow digg users,

    As a Linux user and life-long Christian, I have struggled with many things in my operating system of choice. Daily, Linux users use commands like "kill", "abort", and install programs in the background as "daemons". While most non-Christians carelessly toss these into a command prompt, I am pained with the evil represented in their names. I have long awaited an operating system with agrees with my outlook on life: Freedom through Christ our Lord. These commands should definitely be renamed.

    A Linux distribution suited specifically to the common views of a Christian would gain massive popularity among the believers. Many of my brethren use their computers strictly for email because they are dissuaded by the filth found all over the Internet. Even on clean and legitimate sites, banner ads featuring scantily clad women parade over a sexually suggestive slogan. Shipping content filtering and advertisement blocking components with the security of Linux and Firefox would be more than enough to get thousands of Christians across the world to install Linux.

    When I first installed Ubuntu, I was shocked at the selection of gambling games like Blackjack and Freecell installed on my machine. This being my family computer, i do not want my kids to stumble and innocently be faced with a temptation to gamble with every click in the "Games" menu. These games should be replaced with wholesome entertainment such as Biblical trivia and adventure games.

    Along family lines, a new authentication system should be implemented allowing me to access my children's files and documents without becoming root. Also, encryption should be disabled. I nor any other Christian have nothing to hide. Web accountability software would be a plus, it's a great way to stay away from the Devil (pornography) and share favorite websites at the same time!

    The real killer app for Christians: commentaries. Lots of them. Dict could be adapted for biblical history and references, and GNOME sword and verse should be installed by default,with all Biblical and commentary plug-ins.

    This is an EXCELLENT idea! God works through all things, let's save some souls with the freedom of Linux and Jesus Christ our Lord.

    Have a blessed day in Him,

    Jose Gosdin
    • joelito, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9So that means that you would never use any FreeBSD based operating system.
    • longofest, on 10/12/2007, -4/+15dude, hate to mention this, but you used the term "killer app" in your comment right after complaining that linux distro's use commands called 'kill' and 'abort'.

      For what its worth, I'm a Christian, and I have no problem with these terms being used in linux or any other OS for that matter. If they actually had some kind of reference to politics or spiritual warfare, then maybe, but they are just computer terms!
    • slicedoranges, on 10/12/2007, -11/+9@ longofest

      Some people can't help but be radically brainwashed by religion, as shown here.
    • rodrigo74, on 10/12/2007, -8/+7This guy GOT to be kidding.
      Pretty scary stuff in his post.."I nor any other Christian have nothing to hide".. O.o
    • Snakey, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12Dugg, just because it's soo funny to read your comment.

      But I have to agree, you complain that in linux we use forbidden commands, like kill and daemon

      And then you say a killer app... there's a slight bit of controversy here.
    • rodrigo74, on 10/12/2007, -5/+9This long post shows clearly how fanatics can get scared even of the most prosaic things, and think that alienating their kids is a smart idea.

      EXPLAIN the world to your kids, but don't try to HIDE it.
    • e1eongonza1es, on 10/12/2007, -5/+8"And on the third day, God created the Remington bolt-action rifle, so that Man could fight the dinosaurs. And the homosexuals."

    • jas1552, on 10/12/2007, -11/+6Jesus titty ***** Christ!! Is this guy serious?
    • dbr_onix, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Nope, well, some of the "issues" are extremely similar to that fake Chritian Red Hat (I think it was), particularly the kill, abort and deamon things..
      Has anyone tried this? Does it add anything other than a few themes, and the SwordGnome app?
      - Ben
    • dot2guy, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1I've actually thought about this before... from a non-religious angle.

      If daemons were called "angels" (or angaels) I bet we could expect our computing environments to be a lot more safe, easy-to-use, user-friendly, "idiot-proof" the whole bit.

      Gates and his lot certainly seem to be channelling devils, 90% of the time!

      On a similar note, .LOVE and related domains (.PEACE, .THANKS, etc.) should definitely be authorized by ICANN at the earliest possible opportunity. If you're familiar with the work of Masaru Emoto at all (highlighted in the film What the Bleep do We Know?) you will see that this will dramatically transform the world --not to mention the Internet-- as we know it.

      This site was formerly dedicated to that end: http://www.dotlove.org
      I expect it will be again.... http://icannwiki.org/DotLOVE

      Strange as it may seem, there are some good ideas here. The Computer could be transformed into the biblical beast (of burden it sometimes seems to be) into a true servant of mankind.

      The words we use presumably have a big part to play in this. After all, we are all using words to communicate in this forum-- (and throughout the Internet). And as the Bible itself says, "In the beginning was the Word. And the Word was with God. And the Word was God."

      That pretty much sums it up, I think!! Anthony Robbins, do you agree???? :)
    • alt130, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5That so many people apparently took this seriously saddens me.
  • MrButthead, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9So can I dual boot Ubuntu Christian Edition with my Windows XP Christian Edition?
    • frazras, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3As a christian, one of my main reasons for switching to linux was that the Windows I was using was pirated [there went a commandment], So I decided the best way to get rid of this sin was to switch to a free software OS. Haven't regretted it since :P
      In fact now I try to exorcise M$ from all my friends now.
    • sharperguy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1w00t

      Thats the reason I switched also

      Well one of many

      And I'm not really Christian

      But Still I hated having Pirate windows
  • Hexagram, on 10/12/2007, -7/+8Hey guys, Christian Edition Ubuntu has a room to discuss the development of on irc.freenode.net in the room #christianubuntu.

    Good day and God bless!
  • RichPowers, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12The Christian version of XP wouldn't work because it's against the faith to work with an agent of Satan

    :)
  • ineedacigarette, on 10/12/2007, -7/+5wow. this is probably the silliest thing i've seen since christian-web-masters.com.
    • dot2guy, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2@ineedacigarette

      ...but have you seen:

      http://godbit.com (part of the 9rules network)?

      Some good stuff (including nice design and book and code reviews reside) there...
  • slicedoranges, on 10/12/2007, -17/+8Fake. Linux users are too smart to believe in Jesus.
    • iotadeltaphi, on 10/12/2007, -10/+3Fake. Digg users are too stupid to believe in Linux.

      I can hear it now..... "Jewbuntu"
    • slicedoranges, on 10/12/2007, -9/+3This man speaks the truth.
    • Rub3X, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2Yea I was thinking that myself. A programmer that is stupid enough to believe in god yet smart enough to edit an operating system's code? =s
  • PARTyZAN, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3I want Zen Ubuntu!
    • Snakey, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Install PHP, then you'll be powered by ZEN(d)
  • PARTyZAN, on 10/12/2007, -7/+0Sorry for double post :(
  • corteze, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12new commands:

    amen = shutdown now
    resurection = reboot after 3 days
    sin = rootkit or virus
    prayer = bash scripting
  • somerandomnerd, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4I wonder what the Jesubuntu attitude towards icons is...
    • zip000, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Depends on whether you install Orthodoxuntu or not.
  • hdickins, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Ha Ha (only serious)

    It is kinda funny; but the ideals of Ubuntu sit pretty comfortably with Christianity too. (Look at Desmond Tutu's use of the word ubuntu in his rhetoric and attempts to heal the divisions in S.African society... )
  • screenienerd, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7A Christian version because it contains ONE Christian application?
    • bayonetblaha, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7and a boot screen with a fish on it, probably.

      Where does the compulsion come for christians to make christian-everything? Christian music, christian government, christian education, christian... Ubuntu?
    • dot2guy, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2@bayonetblaha (again):

      Only one thing doesn't exist:
      "Christian Christians." (The last one died with Jesus, the first and last Christian,&-Jew.)
  • b0b0, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3Well, as long as it is Linux :-D
  • skokielad, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5News flash: In a related move, the Catholic Church will now adopt open source practices. No per-user charges for sermons and users can freely redistribute epiphanies. Paid support available on a subscription basis. Confessional boxes to accept credit cards.
  • YourTechSupport, on 10/12/2007, -5/+5As nice as this is, I want a Chuck Norris Ubuntu.
    It'd roundhouse kick non-compliant drivers and install applications by force.
    Applications would run fast and effectively by fear alone.
    It would also excrete diamonds.
  • anjori, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1I can't seem to find a link to where I can download the source code. Surely it's there and I simply overlooked it, right? I mean, Christians aren't the type to break the law or ignore their obligations, while insisting that everyone else be held accountable for their sins, right?

    Maybe if they spent less time reading that book of fairy tales, and more time studying the text of the GPL...
    • dot2guy, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2The Source Code is in the Bible, du... :)

      Haven't you heard of "The Bible Code"?? It's in there.. just, "read between the lines."
  • tgone, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0Well, they have the right to do whatever they want. I think mixing computers and religion is silly though. Jesus didn't die on a cross so people would make operating systems in his memory. Some people just don't get it.
  • tgone, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Where is Jewbuntu? Or Islamubuntu? Hindubuntu?

    I think I'll just stick with Ubuntu...
  • MonkeyLord, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5It strikes me odd that many of you would just absolutely denigrate this disto and drag the name of Jesus through the mud. I really thought the Digg community was made up of a diverse crowd of people who respected each other’s differences. All this guy is doing is gearing a distro to a certain group, just like Edubuntu is geared towards educators and kids. Where is the harm in that? Why is it so stupid or ludicrous?

    To me as a Christian I think that it is a cool idea… it marries 2 of my favorite things Jesus and Linux. Although I will not be loading it myself, I would not hesitate to load it on my kids’ machine (but they are using Edubuntu) or give it to a friend from church.

    I really got to say that I am personally hurt by many of the comments that have been posted (not that I am crying or anything like that mind you). It seems like many posters have no respect for differing points of view. It’s as if just because I don’t believe in evolution that many of you feel that I and other Christians are stupid and should be destroyed. Thanks for welcoming us with open and unbiased arms.
    • alt130, on 10/12/2007, -4/+2Oh, cry me a red sea. Everybody isn't out to get Christians (though it seems it's often the other way around nowadays), and calling the distro a stupid idea is not a personal attack on religion. And yes, ubuntu + bible program - GPL conformity = stupid.
    • MonkeyLord, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Hey look man... I never said that everyone is out to get Christians. I also did not say that it was an attack on religion. And where did you get the whole -GPL? Thank you for your comments, which had nothing to do with anything that I said.
    • brstilson, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1"Oh, cry me a red sea. Everybody isn't out to get Christians (though it seems it's often the other way around nowadays), and calling the distro a stupid idea is not a personal attack on religion. And yes, ubuntu + bible program - GPL conformity = stupid."

      Dude what the heck? You're either joking here or really grasping at straws. Just because a Christian says "I like my religion, and it annoys me when people are intolerant to it" doesn't mean they read Jack Chick comics, roll on the floor during church and handle snakes...geez dude, Christianity is here to stay no matter how much you hate it. So you can go on with the irrational hating if you want, but at least no real (read: real, as in, not the Benny Hinn faith-healin' types) Christian is going to call you stupid for it. Generalizing any group of people makes you as ignorant as you claim they are.

      Secondly, where does it say it doesn't conform to the GPL?

      I really don't see why anyone would have a problem with this. A distribution is merely Linux with a bundle of software. Christian Ubuntu is nothing different: Linux with a software bundle designed for a specific use or group of people. So just get off it already. Even if you don't agree with Christians, it still doesn't affect you one bit. To quote Thomas Jefferson:
      "It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are
      twenty gods or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor
      breaks my leg."
    • sharperguy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0And how come Thomas Jeporson is so scared of pickpockets breking his leg?

      naw just kidding I jsut love misinterpreting famous quotes
  • tgone, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0No disrespect intended...
  • Ciebergasm, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1It is great seeing Linux demonstrated for its true purposes- close to unlimited user customability. Hopefully some people are finding this useful, and I am even more hopeful that others will follow suit and start using Linux because they are now realizing its true capabilities.

    Anyway, I always said it would take an act of God for Linux to be perfectly compatible with all software... :p
  • mhancoc7, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9Well, I am very shocked and quite disappointed at some of the reaction that this project has received. I am the one all of your vicious comments and attacks are focused on. I am the guy who started all this. You know the one with the "stupid" idea.

    I just want to take a moment to remind everyone that I am a person. I have feelings. I think if you truly open your minds a little and take a look at the project site you will see that I am not trying to push anything on anyone. I am just trying to make Ubuntu more marketable towards a specific group of people.

    I find it quite offensive that it is OK to be so intolerant towards Christians or any group for that matter. Our IRC channel had to be shut down because it was sabotaged. I can only imagine if someone came out with a customized Ubuntu for homosexuals. If someone bashed it in the same way that Ubuntu Christian Edition has been you would all be screaming "hate speech" and "intolerance". This is such a double standard.

    I am also disappointed in those of you who "preach" the power and flexibility of Open Source and then attack a project that doesn't suit your secular world view. Again this is not a distro to bring Jesus to non-Christians. It is a distro to bring Ubuntu to Christians.

    I am truly hurt, offended, and disappointed at the vast amount of closed-minded, intolerant, and down right mean-spirited reaction that has come from this.

    The project is going to continue. I only hope that once the dust settles, the fun of bashing the latest Christian endeavor will have subsided.

    I want to be sure to thank those Christian and non-Christians who have shown there support. It makes me very hopeful when I receive a message from an atheist who tells me that he/she supports the idea, not in the theology, but in the concept.

    I don't plan on following every post or comment in an attempt to create a larger dispute. I just could not sit back and not voice my feelings.

    Jereme
    • MonkeyLord, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Well said my Brother. You could not have picked a better distro to base yours off of. The whole concept of ubuntu fits right in with what we are taught as Christians... Humanity to others.
    • mhancoc7, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Thanks, I agree whole completely. I really expected more from the Linux community. You know that really isn't fair though. I do not want to lump everyone together like that. I guess I just did not expect this type of reaction. Oh well I guess I should just be glad that it has given my project "exposure". :D
      God Bless, Jereme
    • rodrigo74, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2@mhancoc7: you gotta agree that read a someone defending your project with the words "Also, encryption should be disabled. I nor any other Christian have nothing to hide" and "let's save some souls with the freedom of Linux and Jesus Christ our Lord" makes it clear that not everyone who supports your idea does so with exactly the same mindset of yours.

      It might not be _your_ intention, but a lot of people (both users and non-users) will probably see this Ubuntu flavor as a tool of proselytization.
    • mhancoc7, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3@rodrigo74: I am aware that there are fanatics, and there are also those with the best intentions. Unfortunately many of the ones with good intentions have horrible delivery. I am also aware that many Christians have a tendency to push their beliefs on others and can be very judgmental. However, I don't think that it is fair to put all that baggage of resentment on me or my project. If everyone took the time to look my sites over they would see that there is not one mention of removing daemons or kill from the command list. That is just ridiculous. There is also no mention of going to hell if you don't use it or that using it will get you into Heaven. That too is ridiculous. I just think that it is a double standard to stereotype me or my project based on your or any ones past experiences. I mean you can't get away with that with any other group of people. Surely you can see that. I can't control what those of the far right will do with this distro nor can I control what the far left will do to bash it. I simply want the same respect and consideration that we all want.
    • dot2guy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2If you actually read the comments here on Digg, you will find that the majority are not mocking, or abusive, or offensive in any way.

      Frankly, I found this little 'defensive diatribe' to be one of the most offensive, and presumptuous posts, in this whole discussion.

      If you take what Diggers are ranting at face value, you certainly are not familiar with the culture of Digg.

      Is there an anti-Christian double standard? Probably. Does it make sense to whine on and on about it? Probably not.
  • rodrigo74, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3"Again this is not a distro to bring Jesus to non-Christians. It is a distro to bring Ubuntu to Christians."

    I just hope this principle is not forgotten and people (in the "Bible-belt" specially) don't try to make this Ubuntu flavor mandatory in their schools, alongside creationism and all this stuff.

    I believe a lot of the bad reaction to this project has to do with the recent increase of christians in the US (the President included) trying to shove religion where it's not due, such as politics and school curriculum.
    • rodrigo74, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2PS: Sorry, this should be a reply to mhancoc7's post, above.
      And when I said "school curriculum", I mean _science_ curriculum, nothing against teaching religion in the religion class, if the school has it.
    • mhancoc7, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1@rodrigo74: Oh and I forgot to mention I am one of those people from the "Bible-Belt". :)
    • brstilson, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1How many people in the "Bible Belt" are smart enough to use Linux, even ubuntu? Heck, how many even own computers?

      I think the role of "Fundie Snake-Handling Abortion-Clinic-Bombing Pseudo-Christian who also has a penchant for Linux" is one not often filled.
  • savantelite, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Who has a torrent to this ISO. please post it
  • bcron, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0I don't see a torrent for it anywhere but this is the download link

    http://www.whatwouldjesusdownload.com/christianubuntu/2006/07/download.html

    I think this is a great idea. I am a catholic, just not a good one... I'm just exited at the idea that if this takes off it would increase the Linux user base. I have suggested this to some friends that are Christian as a selling point for them to try Linux.

    I also think that the Ubuntu philosophy and the Open Source movement has much in common with what religion is supposed to be about. I'm a bit disillusioned to "church" because I see a lot of hypocrisy and money grubbing.

    This product and this potential usergroup seem like a perfect fit. Church organizations could pick up on this to save money etc...

    Great job on this distro...

    I'll do my part to spread the good word... (about linux that is)
  • mhancoc7, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1We have just released Ubuntu CE v1.1!!

    http://www.christianubuntu.com
  • caleballan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1quote:
    Maybe if they spent less time reading that book of fairy tales, and more time studying the text of the GPL...

    > GPL is so simple and easy to understand. The bible is broad and complex when criticized, thus the line "... that book of fairy tales," is just an argument from plain ignorance. Know for certain that in order to criticize the Bible, you need to study these - Linguistics/language, Literature, Textual criticism(this is a specialized field of determining the original state of a text), social sciences, archaeology, psychology, theology, philosophy, logic and etc.


    quote:
    http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/

    >this is another crap skeptic's website. One thing that is so obvious from the argument from this site : http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/gods.html
    Verses compared with verses in an out of context. Out of context simply means the author/reader doesn't actually know what is the real meaning of a given text or passage, given if you criticize even the simpliest term in the Bible, you must first inquire the disciplines I listed above. It is better to spend more time reading Christian scholarly articles.
    see: http://www.tektonics.org/af/calcon.html
    see: www.bible.org
    see: www.probe.org

    Ubuntu is a great Linux distro, Christianity can benefit from the freedom of Linux. Ubuntu Christian Edition is such a starting point.
    (I am using Ubuntu 6.06)

    God bless..
    • brstilson, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I've read that many gods/one god argument. Funny they didn't notice the capitalization of "God" when referring to the Isrealite God and the lowercase "god" when referring to pagan gods. It may not look like much, but what those passages mean is that the nations surrounding Israel had many gods. It was merely a commentary on how the OTHER nations had deities, but it wasn't recognizing the divinity of those gods.

      I've read a lot of the arguments on that skeptics site and from what I've seen, at best they're weak arguments based on lack of knowledge or education on the subject.
  • angrykeyboarder, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1I'm a bit late to this party. I just saw screenshots at OSdir.com. I Googled the subject and here I am.

    Anyway, I think I'm going to do something equally asinine and start Pagan Ubuntu, or maybe a whole new distro.. LuciferLinux™.

    Either would be as absurd as "Christan Ubuntu".

    Gotta love that GPL!
  • sharperguy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I have to say that although I am not a Christian, I support what you are doing. As long as this is never pushed into the wrong direction the motto of bringing ubuntu to Christians will probably cause me to suggest it to some of my Christian freinds.

    The fact that I may try to create a Pastafarian ubuntu is less of a denunciation than an inspiration. It probably wont happen anyway but I'm sure Pastafarians would love to have an OS designed for their "religeon".
  • eco2you, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0Oh, wonder what other versions are on the way, a karmic Buddisht one? lol!
    http://www.eco2you.co.uk
  •  

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