What is Digg?205 Comments
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+33They can take our lives, but they'll never take our FREEDOM !!!
- Shadowman, on 10/12/2007, -6/+35@n0n4m3
Most distros have very few hardware problems these days, not just Ubuntu.
It's nice to see "Is Now the Time to Move to Linux?" and not "Is Now the Time to Move to Ubuntu?" - roosterjm2k2, on 10/12/2007, -6/+27Troydoogle...your obviously not a linux user...
The terminal isnt the only way to do most things, most things have GUIs for them.
However, the terminal is used is most tutorials/help because its 100 times easier than the gui.
Consider these two situations:
1-GUI : Open control panel, click on this icon. Click this button and put this text here. Close that dialog. Click this icon, check these options, close. Run this program, click these settings (lets say 10 settings), clikc this tab, set these settings, the next tab, these settings. (Explain that in a page...you need screenshots, aot of text, etc...etc..)
2-Terminal : Copy this code. Right click in a terminal and click past. Hit enter.
Which is easier to follow? - Phocion55, on 10/12/2007, -20/+41I'll reserve this thread for comments posted by Windows users who clearly have never even touched a Linux box, yet somehow feel qualified to enlighten all of us.
Please keep your FUD to 500 words of less.
Thank you! - AngryBacon, on 10/12/2007, -4/+22I finally switched to Linux a few weeks ago, and haven't looked back. :D
- jfreeman, on 10/12/2007, -2/+20Cedega is not free.
- AdamZ, on 10/12/2007, -0/+15> People get hung up on 'hardware issues' on Linux.
Agreed:
"Linux supports more devices, out of the box, than any other operating system ever has."
http://www.kroah.com/log/linux/ols_2006_keynote.html - roosterjm2k2, on 10/12/2007, -2/+16jrizzo, no..you dont, the vast majority of stuff in the major distributions (rh, knoopix, suse, ubuntu) is available in GUI interfaces to handle...its different from windows yes, but hey, you had to learn a little for windows too at first, right?
As far as executable only, try OSX, single file installs are all the rage over there...but its pointless.
The filesystem in linux is far from complicated. Its very consistent, which is something you cant say for windows. Every program installs in its own way in windows, cause there is no real standard. Again, its a case of it being 'different' rather than bad.
I'm primarily a windows user, but i respect linux. It still has some issues, but I cant stand people saying wrong stuff about it and making it look bad when the truth is, its just different and they havent taken any time to try to learn. Its not windows, its never going to be windows...but it is a good OS. - Shadowman, on 10/12/2007, -6/+18I would have recommended a move to Linux 2 or 3 years ago but better late than never!
- Jacob, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13I have never had anyone do that. Using ubuntu forums if anything the closest to that would be a link to the article that had the answer nobody has ever told me to google it, though generally that is my first step b4 asking questions.
- GMorgan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11Couldn't figure out how to use Windows that's a laugh. Most Linux users have used Windows more than most Windows users.
- bettermentflux, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13I thought it was a balanced article that looks at the key pros and cons.
Recommended reading for Windows users considering a move. - jrizzo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10Hey man, I feel ya. As long as Windows f**ks up, people will pay me to fix it.
- jrizzo, on 10/12/2007, -14/+24About troydoogle7's comment:
I am with this guy. Why the hell are you digging him down? YES, command line editing is favorable in alot of ways. But face it...Linux will never overtake the mainstream OS if you have to be a server admin to use it (and if anyone takes me literally on that sentence then you are not even worthy of my response).
I ran Linux for quite some time, and it CAN do everything Windows can; it is just more of a pain in the ass to do it. Yes having the OS do more for you can cause conflicts, but when I can reinstall vista and all my programs in 5 min with an unattended installation, then I don't care. And having to run emulation programs to run Windows stuff is lame. If the community really were that big then the software would exist for it natively.
So you Linux fanboys can get what I am saying...
Linux = technologically better than Windows in every way (i admit that whole heartedly)
Windows = Easier
Easier = Mainstream
It is impossible to deviate from the above logic, despite what you want to think.
Edit: I concur with the above 2 threads as well. People don't like Linux because it is easier. - emid, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10Amarok is a decent replacement for iTunes.
- Phocion55, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10"No vision."
Hahaha. This goes in my "best of FUD" quotes pile. - deadbaby, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10It's not a compromise for everyone. You're forgetting that not all of us are using professional apps. In fact, the vast majority of people never even buy third party software. They go online, read e-mail, listen to music, watch movies.
I'm not a graphics professional. Why do I need Photoshop? I use like 3 features in the Gimp. (resize, text tool, etc)
I'm not a programmer. Why would I need a good visual IDE?
I own gaming consoles that I play in my living room on my HDTV. I don't care about running games on my PC.
Everyone has different needs. Business desktop PC's are going to stick with Windows for quite a while but many home users can switch today. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11it's ok, he's black. rules don't apply to him like it does to whitey
- spoozer, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9Why are we so concerned with what is mainstream? Who cares if people use Windows, Linux, OSX or some other OS. We'd all be better if we used what we like and quit telling others what to do.
- KillerJ59J, on 10/12/2007, -6/+14troydoogle7, That's not even funny.
- cquilliam, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7I used to run a linux help site (forums based), and it was amazing how many users would stroll in and be almost afraid to ask questions. They'd start off with claiming how much of a "n00b" they were, etc, in the hopes of not getting flamed.
Of course, our forums were meant for new users for the most part, so we didn't tolerate any flamming or 'looking down your nose syndrome'. The site was/is quite successful because of it.
So, not all Linux users are snobs, some of us actually do care and actually try and help people without making them feel inferior. And besides, there are plenty of those snobs in the Windows/Mac world as well. Well, maybe mac users aren't snobs, they just spend more time telling you how much better it is then anything else then actually helping :P - Phocion55, on 10/12/2007, -5/+13"How about those of us who have used both but still think you're an ass? Where do we fit in?"
That's every other comment thread on Digg. Get in line. - Phocion55, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7@thtroyer: Ubuntu is an nice distro.
But people make it seem like it's going to eradicate everyone's worries about using Linux. And people do have many VALID criticisms of Linux. But people make it seem like Ubuntu is the BEST Linux solution out there. It's not, sorry to say.
People new to Linux use Ubuntu (under the assumption that it's "the best"), get an error when using it, think: "THIS is supposed to be the best Linux distro out there?", and conclude that Linux must then suck. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7I upgraded my distro from Ubuntu 6.06 to Ubuntu 6.10 over the weekend, and I have to say that this distribution, by far, is the most polished Linux distribution to ever grace my desktop.
Later on that night, I was playing Prey using Wine, ran flawlessly. - thcobbs, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8The time to move to Linux is when it suits your needs better than ANY of the other options.
- doodlebumm, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8The fuss is that you don't have to be encumbered by Microsoft products, you don't have to worry about all the viruses and malware, you can start and upgrade for free, you don't have to deal with DRM-up-the-wazoo things, etc. It doesn't have to be better to be better, if you get my drift.
Freedom, Freedom, Freedom!!! - Phocion55, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Wow. If I had a dollar for every time I saw: "Well I tried Ubuntu, but it didn't work. Linux sucks."
UBUNTU IS ALL HYPE. Don't judge your experiences on Ubuntu and conclude that Linux sucks in general. - cquilliam, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7I don't know why this was dugg down, it's true. Fixing windows computers is a huge industry that I would imagine a lot of people on here profit from. I would love to move all my customers to Linux, however, I would be on the street and starving.
- GMorgan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6I think the suggestion that Linux users are unscientific zealots is totally unfounded. I regularly try many systems and give as much thought to BSD, Solaris, OSX hell even Windows as I do to Linux. It's just currently my preference is for Linux and I prefer OSS in the long term.
As for being a nerd. Surely the point is understanding of the technology. Linux gets you far closer to the core of the OS than you can easily achieve in Windows. A major hack in XP is changing the shell which amounts to changing your WM or DE. This sort of thing is common on Linux.
Anyway I like the fact that if my system boots slow I can alter the init scripts and speed the damn thing up. I like that if my system is inefficient I can compile against my specific arch to get performance boosts. I like that I can cut huge chunks out of the system in the insane drive for performance if I want. I like that switching between WMs is seamless and built in by design rather than using an horrific (and in many cases unstable) hack like they do in Windows. I like that I have access to nearly every programming language ever created at no cost and despite what you may think Linux has RAD tools that are just as bad as their Windows equivalents. Even on Linux can you make extremely rubbish apps very very quickly using a GUI.
Also I like that I can interface between nearly every system imaginable using Linux. Want to interface Windows with Unix, oh dear best get a Linux box in between there. I like that I can run the same system on an old 400 as on a modern quad core box and on my PDA and on my handheld console. Such consistency of interfaces is naturally a great boon to people like myself.
Note I haven't even mentioned spyware yet, or stability. - trajano, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7I don't think you'd be on the street, you would just get a different set of customers and a different set of issues.
- mikedoth, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9Christ, how many times can people use the "games" excuse? Game companies need users ask for it and that there is enough users of the OS to warrant development. It's a catch 22 so everyone shut up about it.
- wounded625, on 10/12/2007, -5/+11Is Now the Time to Let People Make Their Own Decisions Instead of Listening to Your Biased One?
Yes it is! - CurtHowland, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6@ Mitijea,
If MS-Win works for you, then use it. Only religious types, regardless of what is being discussed, think that other people are _wrong_ for not agreeing with them in their personal choices.
There will come a time, when you decide to upgrade your software without buying Windows pre-installed, or if you're hacked/virused/spywared and have to reinstall Windows, or maybe just curious, and when that happens you'll know that you can do something else. And I'm certain that Windows will be there if you decide you like it more.
In the mean time, try a LiveCD like Knoppix or PCLinuxOS. There are some fun games, and doing the 90% "email, web, document, etc" stuff is as easy on a Linux machine as it is with Windows.
By Cromm, good sir, it's _your_ machine. I run what I like, it just so happens to be cutting-edge Debian Unstable. Please, you run what you like and don't let anyone tell you you're wrong for doing it.
But I will still snicker behind my hand when I see WinXP and soon WinVista being sold for $300+, and OfficeXP for $400+, sitting next to a RedHat box that has OpenOffice already and tons more, for $39.99, and a Knoppix disk with all that too, for free at the front counter. (yep, they let me put out some as demo disks) - emid, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6You can sync your ipod with it as well as download podcasts. I do it everyday with my nano and it works pretty well.
- dicerandom, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7For me, it was time about 11 years ago. No idea what's keeping the rest of you ;)
- deadbaby, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Did you try turning down the mouse tracking speed under Preferences?
- Spizzat2, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7I thought everyone decided not to use that word anymore.
/sarcasm - Brkwtzandrew, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6The more people that use Linux, the greater the demand for decent drivers and support from hardware (and software) manufacturers.
- drag, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5What you need is a balance between making something usefull and making something easy.
Sure if you stripped away the command line then you can make it easy for a person to get comfortable with Linux, but you also strip out 90% of the power that Linux provides. In effect your crippling the OS in a effort to make it easy, that is obviously not a good solution.
It just doesn't make sense to make something less usefull.
Also there is a massive amount of functionality and usability aviable in Linux. It's a programmers and power user's playground. You can make it sing and dance for you if you want. In order to create a sole GUI system to do that would require such a massive amount of programming and additional bloat that it isn't even funny. The amount of code required would make Vista look about as resource hungry as DOS.
It's about efficiency and power. The whole point of open source. The challenge is to make the OS easy to use, but so powerfull and usefull that nobody in their right mind would ever want to go back to windows.
Personally when I am in windows I feel like my hands are tied behind my back. It's a very limiting environment and most people don't understand this because they never had enough experiance in a truly open environment to know what they are missing.
Oh as far as propriatory drivers go...
The majority of reasons why Windows crashes is due to bad drivers.
The programmers that make those Windows drivers make those propriatory Linux drivers. However they are operating under a fraction of the budget and a fraction of the testing that Windows drivers get.. because they don't give a *****. Linux is tiny compared to Window's market.
You may think you want propriatory drivers, but you realy don't. You may think that propriatory driver support will make Linux more attractive were in reality it will make it more unstable and eliminate the ability for people to actually fix things when they go wrong. - thtroyer, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6@bgbs
Here's something to keep in mind:
Linux is not Windows.
Did you get that? Do I need to say it again?
Linux _is not_ Windows.
Of course it isn't going to have IE, M$ Office, the infamous "Start Button", or any other stuff(junk). Why? Because it isn't Windows. Do you get that?
Seriously, if you need/want Windows, for whatever reason, then use it. It isn't that big of a deal. However, if you want an alternative -- something that _isn't_ Windows, Linux is great/awesome/best thing since sliced bread/42.
Now that I've spent the time to learn Linux, Windows does seem like 'I'm locked up in a cell', and I can ask the question back -- 'What does Windows offer that Linux doesn't already offer?' - wounded625, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5yes.
- AngryPenguin47, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5WINE is not an emulator!
- thtroyer, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Actually, I'm sure there's _plenty_ still written for the terminal (I've been writing one), but they aren't meant for mainstream consumption -- they are generally tools. Once they can do what they need to well, other programs will be written as 'front end' GUIs for them.
Starting with a command line program is a solid way to write/develop applications, especially under the GPL, such that others can easily write code to interface their own GUIs to it too. - TheZorch, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5@Ahnteis and other clueless *****.
The days of applications on Linux running strictly in Terminal have come and gone a long time ago. Everything is released as an X Windows app and runs on any of the popular Window Managers like Compiz, Beryl, KDE, Gnome, etc. Very very few apps for linux are terminal apps anymore. In fact, I've noticed a growing trend of Windows freeware apps being command line programs with separate GUI frontend apps. - Ratteler, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8We'll see how free you feel when Vista start talking like HAL9000 and saying "I'm sorry Dave. My DRM won't let you do that."
- Dracos, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6I expect 2007 to bring significant changes in the software industry.
Vista has next to no value (and little fanfare from MS), and is being released at the time of year when the economy slumps after the holiday shopping season. This period genrally ends in March, just in time for OSX Leopard and the MacIntel versions of most of Adobe's produsts, which are the bread and butter for a lot of Mac people. A lot of them have been holding out on getting Intel Macs, waiting for Adobe. Mac sales will jump again next year because of this.
Vista will ride on the coattails of OEM installs with a teken amount of marketing, while Leopard will surely have a massive marketing blitz from Apple. Apple wants your money and gives people a reason to give it to them. MS simply expects your money, regardless of how lousy their product is.
Businesses are content with XP and to a lesser extent 2k3. They won't throw a pile of money at MS if they're not sure their apps will work on Vista.
Apple has the confidence of consumers in their corner, and are intelligently breaking into carefully selected markets. MS doesn't even care about consumers anymore, their primary concern is maintaining sales (monopoly) and screwing their competitors, all in the name of shareholder value.
There's a possibility that the Windows monopoly could really crack this year. Expect some OEM's (especially of laptops) to announce their sales with Vista are not to their liking, and prepare to abandon Windows by dumping a pile of money into Linux. When MS comes to them to renew the exclusive Windows distribution agreement, they'll tell Ballmer to piss off, or at least demand that they can install whatever OS they want.
Unfortunately, this OEM money will probably go to RedHat, unless someone like Samsung decides to bankroll Ubuntu. Once one OEM can break free of MS, the others will surely follow, and that's when MS will really have to compete in the market instead of litigate the market to their liking (using stooges like SCO and Novell).
I've already decided that when I get a laptop, it's going to be from Apple. I build my own desktop systems, so I'll just keep using my copy of win2k the way I see fit, if at all. Viva la Gentoo. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Can I sync my iPod with it? That's something I really need. Also, it would be great if I could download podcasts with it, too.
- CurtHowland, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6The only reason people think that Windows is easier to install than Linux is that they never installed Windows.
A friend of mine downgraded his new Sony Vaio from WinXP to Win2K because he prefers Win2K. Fair enough, this was in 2003.
To do so, we had to use a KNOPPIX disk in order to get enough hardware information to go out and get drivers for Win2K. XP wouldn't provide the detailed information, and 2K didn't have built-in support for the newer hardware, and could not even report maker/model. Most things work, and he has working what he really wanted to work. It took a lot of digging to do it.
At almost exactly the same time, I bought a new Sony Vaio laptop that is a functional equal of his new desktop machine. I'm not even sure who got which first.
I had only two problems making a fully functional Linux install: Finding a modline for the Xwindow "nv" module, solved by copying the KNOPPIX auto-generated xconfig, and support for the built-in 802.11b card.
The 802.11b card was native in the Linux kernel within a couple of months, since patches had been communicated to the driver author directly by other Vaio owners. nVidia provided a Linux native video driver, and the Xwindow system was already correctly auto-detecting the "modline" settings even before the xorg split, which has only made things work better.
Sure, he and I could have left WinXP on our machines, and all the hardware would have been supported "magically".
But to compare pre-installed Windows to user-installed Linux is a straw-man argument. Why not compare pre-installed Windows with pre-installed Linux? That would at least be comparing functional equals. - Remmy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Photoshop CS 2 runs fine for me under wine, albeit there is a delay in the menu system, however it doesn't effect the overall experience. IDE, you can use Eclipse which is very much like Visual Studio for Windows with the addition of a few plugins. As for an Office rival, I will openly admit that there isn't much competition, but that is the beauty of open source. Take existing code, modify it for your needs, pass it along and let others do the same.
As for my Linux experience, I must admit I am an early adopter of the open source Operating System movement. I was using FreeBSD 10 years ago. I eventually switched to Linux and see the advantages of different Operating Systems. It's not a war, it's a choice. You don't HAVE to switch to anything, but being able to choose is what that "freedom" is all about. -
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