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92 Comments
- markcrules, on 10/12/2007, -2/+44I agree with the sentiments but unfortunately I believe people will be more inclined to break the licence terms that to switch OS's... come to think of it, who reads EULA's anyway?
- cliffzdude, on 10/12/2007, -10/+39We live in the geekified stratosphere of computer geekdom around here. We live on our computers, ***** I spend more time on computers than with my family. We're the top 1% of the top 1% of PC users. We are NOT average computer users.
That said, you do know that 99.9%+ of all people (the average user) who will use Vista don't know what an EULA is, don't care what an EULA is, they just want to know what to click to make it work.
The proposition that Vista will "push" users to Linux is pure, unadulterated, balderdash. - warmcat, on 10/12/2007, -4/+33That can be true for home users, but since an evolving non-optional "Windows Genuine Advantage" app is fundamentally the enforcement of the EULA, more people will certainly become aware of what the EULA says even if they didn't read it.
For corporate users, the real threat of the BSA knocking on your door demanding a license audit makes them increasingly cautious about trying to comply with licensing. For the more progressive business, that really pushes them towards Linux, since it is so much easier and cheaper to be compliant, there don't have to be any registration keys to track, etc. - prevett, on 10/12/2007, -6/+31I have done it. I have switched My home PC to full time Dapper. My wife's is still running XP. For me, it makes sense. Linux it getting to a point where it will be a real contender with the likes of the MS oses. I have been tinkering with Linux since back in 1991, when you had to download like 90 1.44 floppies from some FTP site.. I think it was UIUC.edu... But only really since the likes of Ubuntu, have I even considered it for my full time PC. I would gather to say that when Ubuntu becomes a little prettier, I will transition my wife's computer over to it. Heck, my 7 year old son preferrs my Linux machine over my wifes XP machine.. (Now if we could only get Shockwave for linux), and gets really angry when I make him use hers because I am using mine. I am a full time IT/Technology Manager, and I can see companies, who use microsofts software to make money paying the high licensing fees, but I also think MS should reduce licensing costs for "home use" Apple has it right.. I think like 150 or so for 5 home licenses for OSx? heck I'de pay that, but I won't pay upwards of 4-500 for Vista Ultimate, for an OS which phones home to make sure I'm playing Nice... Hell, lets not forget MS is probably what it is today due to piracy.. It has been their biggest asset. And heck, I rebuild my computer at least 3-4 times a year.. what would vista have in store for me...
- r00723r0, on 10/12/2007, -1/+25GAIM is no graphics editor... You're probably thinking of The GIMP. GAIM is a universal instant messenger.
- atdigg, on 10/12/2007, -3/+16yeah, sorry, I meant GIMP
- johnstar, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12I was low on cash and my phone got turned off, I had to reinstall windows and could not activate online so I tryed another shot at linux no serials, keygens, viruses, spyware ubuntu even ships disc. Ms makes you pay for a beta thats low!
- senorBojangles, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12It has to be true that MS is pushing some towards Linux, and though it is a small minority, they are vocal.
MS is in the dominant position largely because of marketing and illegal/unethical practices. The fact you can't really buy a computer without paying the "MS tax" is infuriating. That MS won't publish protocols to allow easy integration of other platforms is frustratingly sad. The security nightmare/ patch kluge is maddening and dangerous. MS is now pushing their WGA in what feels like an attempt to eke out more dollars at the expense of customer satisfaction.
To even run windows, I have to buy an anti-virus program, decent CD/DVD burning software and if I did it Microsoft's way pay $300 more for Office.
The fact that open-source software requires no CD keys and provides many tools out of the box is much more agreeable to me philosophically. With open source, I feel empowered instead of enslaved.
Thanks Microsoft for pointing out the way. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+14 I also moved to Linspire Linux because I did not like the direction Microsoft was moving in...I'm the only one in this house who has done so...
- mtgarden, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13@cliffzdude
It is true that this is a geekified atmosphere and you are correct that most users won't care to much, but you miss several critical points.
First, as geeks, we have the ability to influence the average user and WGA has pushed me too far. I am encouraging everyone I know to move to OpenSuse 10.1.
Secondly, WGA is going to bite a lot of people - and draw some blood. Can you imagine what will happen when the first worn runs through Home Basic and rootkits the system? WGA will (by MS's admission) determine the system to be invalid. Now, the user can pony up $100+ for a "legitimate" license or reinstall. How many home users can do that easily without losing most of their data? And how many times can this happen before WGA decides to invalidate their license key? Without proper AV protection (and even with it), users will be at the mercy of virus writers that will end up dropping the WGA anvil on the user.
No, MS will not push people directly to linux, but it will anger the users. Then MS will have a choice to appease the users or to ignore them. I suspect that they will ignore the users for a while. Then when those users come to me, I will recommend linux or a mac. And then people will vote with their $. - Schpariel, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11@inkyblue2:
You won't miss C# nor VS You can use the portable open-source mono compiler
(it's a cross-platform .NET implementation) and MonoDevelop (instead of VS) - atdigg, on 10/12/2007, -3/+13Maybe he doesn't need Adobe Photoshop, as far as I know Adobe didn't launch the product on Linux platforms, but there are many free alternatives. For example Pixel: http://www.kanzelsberger.com/pixel/?page_id=12
Or GAIM, or Xara. For my needs any of those are enough, but I have compassion for you, if you are stuck with Windows because of Photoshop... - snurfle, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11Unfortunately, we live in a world where people believe that 'free' = 'inferior'.
But as more people try Linux, I think that it will take over MS eventually.
Ubuntu has made most of the 'su' commands unnecessary, and even the most vanilla-flavored desktop scheme (including KDE) is more intuitive than Windows has ever been.
The installation of Mandriva is as easy, if not easier, than the installation of XP.
Updating Linux, or any included apps, is just a couple of mouse-clicks away.
The mind-set that Linux is only for techies is losing steam because of these things.
Eventually, imho, I believe people will start to lose interest in what Redmond is pushing down our throats, and realize that "Computer" is not synonymous with "Windows".
The same thing has essentially already happened... Nobody understood DOS except the uber-geeks, so nobody used computers.
When Windows (especially 3.1) hit the market, then the standard run-of-the-mill geeks got involved, too.
When Win 95 came out, people realized that they didn't have to type "WIN" to make the thing work, and it took off instantly.
When I quote building a computer, most people are astonished that I list "Windows" and "Office" as (expensive) options. I keep a Linux box (with Open Office) running on my desk just for show-and-tell.
I have sold a handful of Mandriva machines, and the reaction has been amazing.
Microsoft is not pushing people to Linux, they're just not working hard enough to keep the customers they already have. - inkyblue2, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10@prevett
exactly.
i haven't done the switch yet on my primary (winXP) machines, but it's pretty likely that when those XP installs are getting long in the tooth i'll switch to ubuntu rather than vista. if it weren't for WGA, i'd probably stay with windows out of laziness.
i'll miss c# and visual studio, but not enough to justify the expense or the hassle. - pbaehr, on 10/12/2007, -4/+13I'm right there with you. When I started reading about Vista I made the switch over to Ubuntu and haven't looked back. I'll be upgrading to Edgy Eft this evening, actually.
Of course, my work computer is another story, but I need Adobe Creative Suite to do my job. My dream is for Adobe to start supporting Linux. - Schpariel, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9I used to be a hardcore Windows user, but I realize how it sucked after switching to Linux.
People would appreciate Linux if they bothered to learn it or adjust to it.
Of course, Windows would stay around for a while because gamers and graphics designers are Dependant on it or until WINE is capable of running those windows-only apps that everyone needs - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8I don't know if they're pushing ALL their customers to Linux, but they certainly pushed ME to Linux. I just kind of got sick of XP. I've dabbled with many other Linux distros in the past and always found them lacking in some area. However, I'm using Ubuntu now and it positively rules.
- bitterg, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10There is also an issue of cost here. Many people just don't care about the cost of the OS or the Microsoft tax. It's like buying a car. Many people don't think about the cost of the tires alone, or some other part.
Microsoft makes its money off of being the default choice, not being cheaper, so to attack MS we need another way. - FastZ, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7http://digg.com/linux_unix/HOW_TO_Adobe_Photoshop_CS2_on_Ubuntu_10_steps
Was posted a while back here on Digg an article that shows how to install Photoshop CS2 on your Ubuntu machine if you already had PS CS2 on a Windows machine. - Anubis, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9I'm downloading ubuntu 6.10 today. I think it boils down to me wanting to try something different. After coming to digg about a year ago, and seeing the bias (yea, i said it) towards M$ and hearing many pro-linux users, I thought I'd give it a shot. I am tired of Windows, but I will hold off judgement until I try linux.
- Schpariel, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8People will either pirate it or switch to an alternative OS.
Nobody's going to buy a new key after they run out of "authorizations". You bought a copy of Windows and it SHOULD belong to you. - isolationism, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7You don't have to break a EULA you didn't read to be affected by the software. Just yesterday I had to phone Microsoft to get them to telephone-authorise a legitimate Windows XP installation; unfortunately I'd authorised my copy several times already (over different hardware, then different virtual machines over the years) and suddenly, the copy was no good anymore.
By rights, and according to their own FAQ: When you have run out of "authorizations", you have to buy another key to continue using the product. So this recent 'draconian' measure of Vista has been around since 2001 in a slightly milder form, and Microsoft got away with it.
They'll get away with it again with Vista... but a lot more people are going to feel the burn in another year or two after they buy. - ptaylor, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7I'm triple booting my PC at home (XP MCE, Vista, and Ubuntu 6.10). I just switched the desktop to KDE and I feel like I'll never use all the programs that I have in this OS. I only put Vista up there for two reasons, to see if I can and to see what all the noise was about. Vista is basically just a pretty XP. With Ubuntu, I can easily (no hiccups, no reboots) install and access hundreds of useful programs "out of the box." Vista doesn't come with much of anything worth using. Vista cannot beat Linux's value. Even if Vista was free, I still would choose Linux because I can easily swap most programs in and out without rebooting and these programs that I would actually use, even though there are hundreds of them. Now, I'm working on NTFS read/write capabilities (I have a bunch of Windows-based programs that I'm dying to use in Wine) to use Ubuntu exclusively.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8another main reason, besides the cost, is the CYA factor.
you can't be blamed for doing what 99% of everybody else does. there's no risk to the IT guy in running ms - if something goes wrong, just shift blame to ms. sure, ms may be a net negative to the company and it's customers, but the IT guy has to protect his own butt first. - PaulRay, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6They have pushed me away. I will NOT buy Vista. I am building my Linux system now. I've been using Windows since the early 90's after Commodore went the way of the Triceratops. I've always used legit copies of Windows, but now I'm done. The Drms and restrictions are just too much.
Why not Apple? I use Pro Tools every day at work and just don't really enjoy the Mac experience. One of my best friends develops on Mac and has tried to get me to convert, but I like to build my own computers and this isn't really an option with Apple. I'm also not really into the idea of being tied so tightly to one monolithic brand.
I have downloaded about 10 distros as live CDs. I'm so impressed with where Linux is right now. Most distros recognize my Logitech wireless desktop right out of the box, my Clie TH-55 links up just fine and the memory stick reads as a drive. Windows needs proprietary drivers for both of these, My G-Force video card came right up in Linux, but needed drivers and a reboot in Windows. These are big selling points in my book.
That's my experience and ultimately, it comes down to personal choice. It all depends on what you want and what you're willing to put up with. That's the beauty of it all. - alchemista, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Is the #2 item on there really true (i.e. you can only transfer the license twice and then it's locked out)? Can someone provide a link to evidence on this?
That would definitely be a deal breaker. - davidod87, on 10/12/2007, -5/+10Microsoft has been pushing pretty much everybody to different platforms since Windows ME sucked as much as it did - only now in last 18 months or so are users really tiring of their bureaucratic/corporate ***** and making a change in their choices.
- Avogadro65, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I'm looking forward to trying out Mono tonight. Last time I had checked on it (a while back), it wasn't quite ready for primetime, but it looks like they've come a long way since then.
- mtgarden, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Yeah, it's true: http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=158#more-158 . Gag....
- GabrielS, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4What else is new?
What Microsoft plans to do with Vista is merely extending the reach that first began with Windows XP. The idea of "activating" your OS was bizarre to me. I paid for my OS. Why do I have to activate it? MS was pushing the barrier in Oct 2001. They're merely pushing it a little bit farther in Oct 2006.
We accepted the standard with XP because it was such a significant improvement over Win2k. Photoshop users can already switch to Apple and maintain compatibility.
I think the single biggest factor in converting Windows users to Linux users is the Xbox 360. The 360 takes the gaming functions off my computer. Grant it, computer based gaming is fun, the 360 absolves my computer of that responsibility. I use the computer for what the computer can do best without breaking my bank account to fill it with the latest hardware. - aforonda, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I have to agree, I've had so many issues with XP that I have been pushed to Ubuntu and although I'm struggling to learn the basics, I'm very impresses so far. Pay vs Free? I chose free, although I must admit double clicking a .exe to install something is dreamy compared to command line nuttiness, try installing firefox 2 on ubuntu and a non beta of a new flash would be nice, but again Free is very compelling.
- williamdyer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4@cliffz
That's what they used to say about DRM.
Now every high school kid knows what DRM is and thinks it's crap. - simmonsdd, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I would like to think that everybody will switch to linux as I did, but my switch had everything to do with FLOSS and other political/social reasons than with ease of use. Not many people outside of tech forums care about such things. The simple truth is that most people get their OS with the computer. Nobody will go out and just plop down $400 on vista when they can get an entirely new computer with vista on it for about $500. Most people are not going to get rid of something they paid for already, and with all the restrictions on licensing and ability to reinstall that come with vista, even fewer are going to risk losing the vista os that they paid for already to experiment with linux. MS has been turning up the heat for years and that noise you hear is vista slamming the lid on the pot before the frogs get a last chance to jump out. I'll still keep proselytizing to the great unwashed anyway,though.
- jasz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4EULA:
http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20050402 - osbjmg, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I couldn't have put it better. The answer is YES.
I guess I never gave Microsoft any money to begin with, so I can't complain and it doesn't really hurt them does it? - scronline, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I've been slowly seeing a trend toward using Linux for at least servers. When you present a client with a server quote with $3500 worth of parts and a choice between $0 for software and $4000. Particularly when it only needs to do a few small things like file serving and backups. Even web based applications like a Customer Management System (not Content Management System) can be done simply and cheaply with Linux. The list actually goes on quite a long way with what can be done. More over the amount of time a tech needs to work on the Linux system AFTER the project is complete is drastically reduced compared to a Windows system and it's need for constant supervision.
Not that Windows doesn't have it's place, don't get me wrong. I believe in the proper tool for the proper job. But also keeping the cost down is a good thing for obvious reasons. All those Microsoft sponsored TCO reports are....well, fudged. But Linux can't be all things to all people regardless of what the Zealots say. - jas168, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3"No one will be migrating in mass regardless what Microsoft does."
Quite a few friends of mine and myself are living proof that you are wrong (Ubuntu users). Demand can change supply, and when manufacturers and vendors see Linux/Mac popularity increasing, there will be demand for cross-platform APIs and standards compliance to be used.
That means using Linux supports Linux. Not paying Microsoft hurts Microsoft... Which is taking place right now, and if you want to help, you can, Linux is a community project. - PaulRay, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Well said Daffy.
It looks like ubuntu is the closest thing Linux has to an ad campaign. Actually, with Mark Shuttleworth's capital, it might actually happen. - chadseld, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I was going to buy an OEM copy of vista for my macbook. I know that the OEM version (even for XP) is tied to the original PC and not transferable to a new PC when you upgrade. I was ready and willing to spend about $150 knowing full-well that my copy of Vista would never be transferable to another computer.
But now that the EULA prohibits running the cheap version in a VM, and now that even the expensive version also has a transfer limit... I guess I'm just going to hold on to my money. I don't use windows _that_ much. XP will have to do.
P.S. For those of you who don't have a moral problem breaking the EULA: I wonder if Windows Activation and WGA will be used to enforce the EULA. I'm inclined to think they will. - revisrev, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Go for Ubuntu Anubis.
Mac is really nice and all, hell, it's better (in many ways, not all, but usually easier to figure out, which makes it better for most people) than Linux, right now. How long will it be better? I don't know, the OSS movement is not weakening. There has been so much progress in the last couple of years. Buying a Mac is a rather large invstment, and I think in the next year to a year and a half Ubuntu and other solid distros will surpass Windows in ease of use and be very close to the Mac. For functionality, security, customizing, and raw power Linux already has it. If you buy a Mac today you may kick yourself in a year and a half for spending the money. - MasteRR, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5I tried out Pixel. Very nice, and if they can work out the bugs and get some support for a few more image formats it will be a real contender for Photoshop.
- Anubis, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@ Gabriel S: I've considered Apple, but I'd rather build my own systems, and they (Mac's) are kind of expensive.
@ Dash: The reason that I'm going with ubuntu is the support. I've been reading on the forums ( www.ubuntu.com) and I really don't have to ask a question (yet) that already doesn't have an answer. It almost seems that the users actually like helping each other out. I'm pretty familiar with Windows and UNIX, but I'll have to start (i think) from the beginning on Linux, and I'm gonna need all the help I can get :) - JorgeGT, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6Fish wouldn't have a section for water, would they?
(I use Windows, btw) - tech42er, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Embrace the command line. When programs lock up, I can kill them instantly, and I never need to restart, just restart the GUI. The command line really isn't that bad., And, besides, people can just post commands to help you, and you can copy and paste them. What distro are you using, btw? I'm using Ubuntu 6.06 (soon to be 6.1)
- MadOgre, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Only 2 of my 5 systems are Windows. The other 3 are Linux. Ubuntu, Fedora and SUSE. They are the only machines I (knock on wood) never have problems with.
- Beanis, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@cliffzdude
You are right the vast majority of people don't care, but the small percentage that does care has major influence over other people's purchasing decisions.
I could easily influence about 20 typical non-technical users into switching their OS. I'd have to do it for them, and be willing to hold their hand for a week or two, but in the long term I know I'd have to help them less than I am currently. The only reason I don't do it, is because the first step is a really big and time consuming one.
The worst part of all these newly enforced restrictions is that it is nearly impossible for the typical non-technical user to buy a PC that doesn't come with Windows preinstalled, meaning they are forced to own a license, and will still be required to jump through validation hoops. - tech42er, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Wow. A lot of people (at least Diggers) are switching to Ubuntu. I'm happy to count myself among that group. I switched on the 15th anniversary of the kernel (8/25/06).
- jellygraph, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3the short answer is yes... that's exactly whats been happening at my company and I'm helping to implement it. Microsoft is slowly losing their business to small companies to mid-sized companies
- fornulf, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4You can add our household to the list of people who have become disillusioned with the direction MS has been moving into. We currently have three boxes running various flavors of Linux: Mepis, Kubuntu and PClinuxOS.
To my great surprise, it was my kids who were the early adopters. I thought they would stick with Windows for the games, but gaming consoles today are so good that they have removed the main advantage MS had over the other OS's.
There may be a 'perfect storm' brewing in the OS world and Microsoft's WGA + their outrageous pricing schemes might be the tipping point for a lot of people to switch their OS. - simmonsdd, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@ digitalbryan
worst case scenario is that you call them up and after they have all your personal information that you have provided in your mandatory registration, they will politely request that you pay $200 for new license key, or get a bill/fine/visit from the SPA for using unauthorized software should you chose not to pay the $200 and find a key workaround for something you paid for already. -
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