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How Microsoft Fights GNU/Linux, Apple, Others

boycottnovell.com — Internal Microsoft presentation reveals many of the company's dirty -- if not illegal -- tricks

Who dugg this? Made popular Feb 9, 2009

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  • cday, on 02/08/2009, -6/+53A short clip from the exhibit: "[...] Create the evidence you need, don't just rely on it to come out of the ether. Don't just wait for somebody to write the article that says it's true. Find somebody. Say if you'll do this for me, I'll do this for you. Get it done. Then you've got your data points. So create the evidence you need."
    .................................................................................

    "So create the evidence you need."

    That's just priceless, absolutely priceless. Pretty much sums up Microsoft's marketing, doesn't it? If you can't make a good product, then just creating the illusion of one is the next best thing. Then find a "pawn" to spread the message for you. Golly, who knew Microsoft was such an innovative company?
    : )
  • fandyllic, on 02/08/2009, -5/+44This is just one perspective from within Microsoft and the most directly evil. The real problem with MS is the culture is basically corrupt. In the engineering groups they will sacrifice innovation for features that create lock-in and aren't best practices. I worked at MS and they would often say we need to do it the "Microsoft way" or no way at all. So if a solution was non-Microsoft, but did a better job, they would kill it. Hopefully the computing world will learn that MS is in it for MS and helping customers is only a side effect to entrench MS.
  • inactive, on 02/09/2009, -6/+35 Yup,and you see their paws on Digg every day posting blogs about the death of Linux
    and how wonderful Windows 7 will be. and saying things in Digg like:
    Linux is hard to install.
    Linux is hard to use.
    I can't get drivers.
    It took me 2 days to install a printer.
    Downloading is impossible.
    Etc.
  • amdlinux, on 02/08/2009, -5/+32One could think that Microsoft is not a company selling a product but some sort of a cult, fighting everybody with everything at hand who is not a believer.....

    Frightening.
  • ATCclears, on 02/08/2009, -5/+31Interesting read. I've directly seen flavors of this from Microsoft.
  • LockDeltz, on 02/09/2009, -4/+30How about back in 1989/1990 when Microsoft made secret deals with companies that used DR-DOS and have them switch over to MS-DOS (which was illegal). That move bankruped Digital Research on what they had left. (They were still recovering from the IBM deal and Apple was filing lawsuits against them) Gary Kildall ended up selling Digital Research in 1991 because of Gates. Which is a shame too because DR-DOS was SO much better than MS-DOS. And to this day DR-DOS still remains as the best DOS ever created. Just look up the facts on DR-DOS 5.0 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DR-DOS#Version_5.0 Microsoft can never create an innovative and stable operating system like DR-DOS 5.0
  • inactive, on 02/09/2009, -2/+22Yep. I saw a post state "it took me two weeks to load the drivers for my wireless in linux, but only 5 minutes in Windows 7 beta".

    What? My install of Linux grabbed my wireless on the install and then asked me for my password.... it was ready on my first boot of the OS, just like every OS out there.


  • mister711, on 02/08/2009, -4/+23Microsoft has always been aggressive in their business practices
  • HairyPoter, on 02/09/2009, -7/+25fighting? is M$ fighting anyone? What I see is Linux smashing M$ in two fronts (servers + netbooks) and Apple smashing on the other (desktop). M$ is a vintage company completely dead navigating due to inertia. It is like a ship that once sailed at full speed and that now has not motors - but will continue to sail for a while, until it crashes on an iceberg full of penguins... :-)
  • 2of8, on 02/09/2009, -0/+12Actually that was a great way of putting. It's true that Microsoft is not useless; it still has the dominating market shares, but it's going down and hasn't found a way of reversing that. All of its alternatives just keep getting better.
  • coldkill3r, on 02/09/2009, -1/+12Not sure why you misspelled a word that was spelled correctly...
  • inactive, on 02/09/2009, -7/+18 Nope,I disagree.
    Most Linux users are just normal people and are not fanboys,same for Mac users.
    So why are you putting Linux users down? You a softie?
  • mliving, on 02/09/2009, -12/+23Was a WIndows user for 20 plus years. Switched to OS X last January and I have to agree... OS X does everything that much better.

    Pay a little more and I am very pleased.

    Although the next PC will probably have Ubuntu.
  • mrBitch, on 02/09/2009, -3/+13@ mliving RE: "Was a WIndows user for 20 plus years. Switched to OS X last January and I have to agree... OS X does everything that much better."


    I was a Windows developer for 20+ years, and switched to OS X over a year ago (after moving to Gentoo and Ubuntu Linux distros on my PC hardware), and have to agree with you... OSX does everything that much better.
  • schestowitz, on 02/09/2009, -3/+12Sorry to be commenting up on top. Our server chokes on Digg Effect at the moment, so in case you can't get through, please use Google Cache of this page ( http://74.125.77.132/search?sourceid=mozclient& ... ) and feel free to pass around, copy the text, whatever. Consider it public domain.

    This information deserves to become common knowledge. Inform peers.
  • raldz, on 02/09/2009, -1/+10A Windows user since birth.. switched to Linux 5 years ago and continue to love it... I'll still use Windows, but only the "Pirate Bay Edition"... I would rather donate a few bucks to the Linux community from time to time than give my money to a company that has bad and unfair business practices..
  • inactive, on 02/09/2009, -2/+10@mdmcgee:
    1. Documentation: There is tons of documentation for various Linux distros. I point you to:
    http://tldp.org/ as a good start.

    2. Support: I can call a 1-800 number if I buy from a vendor or from a consulting firm I have a 1-800 number. Let's not forget the various forums, groups, and LUGs around.

    If I download Windows, can I call MS for support? Why would I expect the same from a given distro? If I BUY support, I get it.

    3. The software: FUD. If you didn't know, could you tell me what Excel is? How about Powerpoint? What about something like Argosoft? How about a tool like msconfig? Ya, that's right...there are plenty of geek tools in Windows. The point is that you don't have to use them.

    4. This is the big one : More FUD. Naming is no worse (although sometimes better) than MS software or third party software that works on MS platforms. Can you tell me what Centra does without looking (MS platform software)

    I mean honestly, your post is almost a mirror of the Get the FUD campaign MS used to run (and still does, but it's been watered down)
  • hongkongjapie, on 02/09/2009, -0/+7How much I would love to see MS to loose dominance in all markets, Apple's market share is about 10%, MS Server share is still rising, Linux takes still market share mainly from other Unixes. Netbooks, only the absolute bottom line seems to be available with Linux based environments, many will end up with (pirated?) versions of Windows and as netbooks mature and get more powerful more and more will be available only with Windows.

    Windows succeed not because it's better here, but because people are used to it and know more or less how to use it and it's the same thing as at work/school and their 'favorite' software works on it. I'm afraid Linux kind of missed the boat on the desktop, even though Ubuntu does a reasonable job. But let's hope I'm wrong, I really love to see a big shift in the software market.

    Let's hope Apple comes with a nice mid-end PC without a build-in screen soon, so I don't have to jump ship and join MS evil empire. And no, Linux is not a desktop option for me, the software I need just isn't available for it.
  • Vodd9, on 02/09/2009, -0/+7That's to say the least.
  • D4M4N, on 02/09/2009, -2/+9sadly its natural, Society does the same. We try to convince others what we believe, and fight them, hate them, or even argue with them if they disagree.
  • UKsHaDoW, on 02/09/2009, -1/+8Yeah but like most sterotypes, it's not acurate description of the average person in that group, but a description of the loudest people in that group.

    See
    Gays Sterotypes
    Apple Sterotypes
    Linux Sterotypes
    Microsoft Sterotypes
    hipster sterotypes
    etc
  • jer21, on 02/09/2009, -1/+7What were you fixing?
  • Khast, on 02/09/2009, -1/+6Ahem.. I use all 3...and I would be more than happy to complain about all 3 OSes problems. Unfortunately this usually gets me labeled as a fanboy by the appointed fanclub to which the OS I am complaining about belongs to.

    All the whiny fanboys really need to stop, step back, and realize that nothing is perfect. The OS they choose won't fix all the world's problems. It is foolish to think that any one OS is free from faults, the only reason there isn't more faults is because it's not profitable to find them...yet. (Believe me, if it ever became profitable to hack at Mac OSX or Linux's security...you too would have just as many security problems as Microsoft has...the only reason Microsoft has so many security issues, is because they have the hefty market share.)
  • inactive, on 02/09/2009, -0/+5^ Not a Lawyer
  • Khast, on 02/09/2009, -4/+8All these religious nutjobs (aka fanboys) worship either Bill Gates (Steve Ballmer), Steve Jobs, or Linus Torvalds. Then again there are those who are agnostics who could care less about the childish fanboys. Then there is the Pagans of the computer world...who use all OSs and declares them all to have their faults and that all available OSes are deemed necessary for innovation of the technology.
  • srg13, on 02/09/2009, -1/+5Apple: Making light-hearted commercials that poke a little fun at Windows.

    Microsoft: Swaying the opinions of analysts by various means, making business deals with OEMs to ensure they have a stranglehold on the market, and making outrageous claims about other operating systems infringing on their patents, among other things.

    Yeah, real similar...
  • Claverhouse, on 02/09/2009, -0/+4The main difference is not on the merits or faults of the 3 types of OS referenced; nor on whether they are closed or open source: it is that only one camp engages in vicious commercial behaviour to maintain it's grip.

    I'm not interested in Apple, but however people think they may indulge in overpricing, whatever their preening advertising, they sell straight and don't attempt to interfere with the marketing of Windows or linux ( or Solaris etc. ). Linux, whether in the price-free versions or the sold products have equally never stopped retailers from selling competing products.

    So it's not about the OS: it's about correct behaviour in the market.
  • srg13, on 02/09/2009, -0/+4How long have you been on Digg, five minutes?
  • dragossh, on 02/09/2009, -1/+5Microsoft can never create an innovative and stable operating system. Period.
  • 2of8, on 02/09/2009, -0/+4According to the most favourable number on this page, it's 9.93%. And the least favourable - 3.66%.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operat ...
  • mrBitch, on 02/09/2009, -3/+7@ overninek RE: "... PC users are perfectly happy to admit flaws in windows. Linux and Mac users on the other hand try to find excuse or justify anything that could be wrong with theirs."


    Hmmm, you assume a PC user is NOT a Linux user.

    You're obviously a Windows fan boy.
  • breakaway, on 02/09/2009, -2/+5A lot of people own Xbox 360 because you can play 'backups' on it. Fool.
  • morphie, on 02/09/2009, -0/+3Mirror anyone?
  • inactive, on 02/09/2009, -0/+3There is a huge difference between silencing the FUD and acting like a fanboi. Point in case, when the Wii came out, the PS3/Xbox fanbois were out in force talking about how the Wii would fail due to it's poor graphics....Everybody took them with a grain of salt.

    Any rational human buys what they like (in the economy apparently...there's not much to like ;-) ) and argues it's merits and accepts the demerits.

    When Vista came out, most enterprise IT folks were pretty irritated by the lack luster enterprise abilities of Vista and explained...yet the fanbois came out of the wood work. Now, when it comes to Linux, sure there are fanbois, but the typical users are trying to squash the FUD (see my post above).
  • inactive, on 02/09/2009, -0/+3Is he [not] reading the EULA? So that's how MS gets away with it...
  • corbinat, on 02/09/2009, -0/+3no, I'm not worry
  • mahadiga, on 02/09/2009, -2/+5Open source promotes COMPETITION in the industry.
    Closed source promotes COLLUSION in the industry.
  • AndrewWiggin, on 02/09/2009, -6/+8Sounds like the STEREOtypical Apple / Linux fanboy.
  • horsepie, on 02/09/2009, -0/+2It's a difference between American and British English. I forget which way round it is, but corporations are a single entity in one and a collective entity in another (because you're referring to the many people working there).

    I could be a little wrong.
  • inactive, on 02/09/2009, -2/+4Same here. I love OS X, and I'm only discovering Linux about a year ago. I do enjoy it, and have learned a great deal along the way after installing different flavors. The developers have come a long way in making it comfortable, flexible, beautiful, and easier to use with each version. I'm not quite able to use it 100 percent of the time, as I'm still quite too comfortable and productive using OS X, but it's fun, and nowhere near as difficult as many would suggest. You can't beat free, and it's feature filled.

    Cheers.
  • inactive, on 02/09/2009, -0/+2Thanks - the work firewall had this site blocked: categorised as "Proxy Avoidance"....?
  • inactive, on 02/09/2009, -3/+5Looks like a big marketing spiel to me. I realize that it's difficult since this is a pseudo-religious argument but you need to think about it a little more. If there were a better product the market will move and if it's free then ***** yeah they'll move. Keep making linux easier to use and eventually they'll pick it up. You can't blame microsoft for integrating their software together for a nearly seamless loads and transitions.
  • CrispinUK, on 02/10/2009, -0/+2Man this document dates back to 1996 .. that's 13 years old. Microsoft's changed quite a lot from then - both in terms of people and also following the DOJ ruling. Time to move on....
  • inactive, on 02/09/2009, -0/+2You mean the same Xbox360 with all those red rings of death? The one's Microsoft knowingly shipped with faulty chips? Those Xbox360s?

    I wanted one, but I knew too many people who had problems, so I took a pass, and of course we all know a game console has everything to do with a company's operating system even though they are separate divisions. I did like how the Mac division implemented Office for Mac for example, though it did leave some features out.

    I celebrated when iWork came out with Numbers, it only lacks pivot tables. Now I use open office!

    So, yeah. MS, sucks big time.
  • bdenning, on 02/09/2009, -0/+2This isn't really a question of whether Windows is a good operating system, it's a question of company ethics. Panadol might be the leading manufacture of pain killers (at least here in Australia) but if you found out they tested their product on animals would you simply continue to use it because it's the best product?
  • schestowitz, on 02/09/2009, -2/+4Here is Google cache: http://74.125.77.132/search?sourceid=mozclient& ...
  • tux11, on 02/09/2009, -1/+2dugg for being a totally different perspective.
  • GeezerD, on 02/09/2009, -0/+1Another Ballmer talking point?
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