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80 Comments
- wmtrader, on 04/01/2009, -4/+33It appears that the people of San Francisco have a different view of events.
From SF Gate:
"When one of the tenants, Scott Morrow, successfully fought eviction, the couple allegedly told workers in September 2006 to cut the beams that supported his apartment's floor. They also shut off Morrow's electricity, cut his phone line and had workers saw a hole in his living room floor from below, prosecutors said. Morrow has since sued the Macys."
More from SF Gate:
"In October, Nicole Macy broke into the apartment and poured ammonia on clothes, bedding and home electronics, prosecutors said. "
Read the entire article here:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2 ... - doxx, on 03/31/2009, -6/+31Reading this makes me wonder about society. They are spending more money prosecuting a case that has no injury and no stolen property as if it were a murder trial. It's sad.
- inactive, on 04/01/2009, -3/+26I heard about this story before and I'm more shocked that it still hasn't been resolved.
Someone please turn on the Anonymous signal! - D15C1PL3, on 04/01/2009, -4/+25Hmmm let's see if we can find an unbiased report:
http://gawker.com/383763/freebsd-developer-kip-mac ...
- Nope note enough info.
Ohhhhh:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/04/24/kip_macy_a ...
Almost great, then goes on to draw comparison to the other famous Open Source Dev Criminal. - Retarded.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2 ...
Ahhh that sounds like a realistic story, maybe there is use for newspapers after all.
Now if we could teach them how to use mod_rewrite. You'd think in San Fran they'd know this stuff.
OH well. - doxx, on 03/31/2009, -6/+22What I find amazing is that the previous articles in the SF Chronicle isn't balanced in anyway, it's a total hatchet job. That's not reporting; it's a press release. The DA just dumped a bunch of, "here print this" and somehow it became the truth.
- wmtrader, on 04/01/2009, -3/+17More reading that may help you make up your mind
Another one From SF Gate
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2 ...
From The Register:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/04/24/kip_macy_a ...
CCSF v Kip Macy:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/2869334/CCSF-v-Kip-Macy
The residents appera to be legal tennats and not squatters. - ecoscijoe, on 03/31/2009, -8/+22Sad how our society now rewards the useless and punishes the diligent.
- bmcnally, on 04/01/2009, -4/+16Ah, San Francisco.
Also, squatter's rights are hell. I would never want to deal with someone who was using them, and I could never in good conscience use some of the tactics that you can legally use as a squatter. - MethodOne, on 04/01/2009, -1/+13I thought this article was about the person's domain name (if he had one) getting squatted.
- christoast, on 04/01/2009, -1/+10The last 8 years only proves that point.
- beernutz, on 04/01/2009, -0/+9Thank you. I was SURE i had heard the other side of this story a long time ago, I just could not remember where.
I wish i could dig you up twice! - davidu, on 03/31/2009, -2/+11This is rough!
- fluxion, on 04/01/2009, -0/+9its one-sided in the sense that i read the whole thing and not a single grievance was mentioned and defended against.
he's a BSD developer, therefore he is just a great guy who did nothing wrong.
i'm open for some details on the matter, but there are no details here other than "the 'squatter' is a douche and filed and won similar suits before". that doesnt win RIAA cases, and it wont win Kip's.
not saying the dude is guilty, but this rant is just utterly devoid of any legal arguments against the plaintiff.
similar thing happened with the Reiser case. we all immediately called foul because of the suspicious boyfriend that wasnt being implicated. couldnt be the dedicated linux hacker! turns out the investigators knew a bit more about investigating than us lowly computer junkies. but in that case, at least, we were given some pretty good reason to doubt Reiser did it. here, we dont even get that. - whiledo, on 04/01/2009, -0/+9If you're going to write an article about how the internet should rise up and "Free (insert name here)", you need to actually provide the other side of the story and then demolish it with facts. People have posted critical comments because we have yet to see that done. I'm all for helping out the little guy, but I won't be swayed by articles that never bother addressing the claims in the case.
- strangeman, on 04/01/2009, -0/+8I'm really looking forward to hearing the truth ;-)
- NSResponder, on 04/01/2009, -6/+13Looks like one more example of why you'd have to be nuts to buy a rental property in SF.
-jcr - wmtrader, on 04/01/2009, -3/+10
Wow...I just read the articles in full and if half of this stuff is true then the Macy's are Narcissistic Nut Jobs. - whiledo, on 04/01/2009, -0/+7Except the other side seemed to be limited to "Nuh uh!" All it did was say the alleged squatter was a loony bad man and the Macy's were saints. It never actually picked apart the defendants claims. If the guy is innocent, I feel sorry for him that this is all he's getting in terms of telling his story.
- InorganicMatter, on 04/01/2009, -0/+6Err, if the tenants have a contract (most renters do), then there's nothing they can do until either the contract is up, or the tenant breaks the contract.
- inactive, on 04/01/2009, -4/+10why can't Apple (Steve Jobs) help him out after all Mac OS X is based on FreeBSD
- cperciva, on 04/01/2009, -1/+7I hope the justice system does its job here. It can't possibly be _completely_ broken... right?
- OLTP, on 04/01/2009, -0/+6http://www.scribd.com/doc/13481284/Kip-Macys-995-A ...
The legal document would seem to be at least slightly less biased than the article posted here. In the legal document it does seem true that Morrow tried to turn renting a single room into renting an entire apartment without signing any lease to the effect.
It would seem odd though that not 1, but 3 tenants accuse the Macy's of illegal behavior. - whiledo, on 04/01/2009, -0/+6Since I don't know WTF you're talking about with "read the 995", I'm going to have to assume you mean the full court proceedings. If so, that's *****. You need to summarize the legalese and pull out the pertinent points if you actually want to get public support. Did Groklaw just post the court documents? No, they went through and translated them into English and boiled them down to the important parts.
- billyfalconer, on 04/01/2009, -2/+7This is so poorly written I don't believe the writer has the capacity to be objective about anything. Buried.
- jonglebeats, on 04/01/2009, -0/+5I got Picard who accidentally the whole borg.
- MisterKen, on 04/01/2009, -3/+8This story takes place in San Francisco. There's your problem, right there.
A city that loves property taxes but hates the people who own property. - doxx, on 04/01/2009, -2/+7Not only is it still going on, but the prosecutor keeps trying to increase the penalties. It sounds like they've spent nearly $2M of "the people's" money on this. :(
- LonelyTylenoL, on 04/01/2009, -3/+7WTF!!...I dugg it and Mr. T. popped and said "I pity the fool who dug that story"...
- techdever, on 04/01/2009, -0/+4yay mr T
- whiledo, on 04/01/2009, -0/+4If you really want to help the Macys, stop wasting your time posting comments to digg and post a much better article than what's linked to here. Take the court papers and summarize them with citations so people can double-check you. Make sure you clearly mark which parts are actually findings by the court and which part are simply claims by an attorney.
I'd honestly like to side with the guy if he's innocent, but so far his supporters are doing a piss-poor job of rallying public support. - jamesmcm, on 04/01/2009, -1/+5So what?
You have to be ready for this stuff as a landlord. - Kamujin, on 04/01/2009, -1/+5"You must have missed that part about Apple being one of the biggest FOSS parasites..."
Fixed. - HonoredMule, on 04/01/2009, -0/+4I haven't yet heard ANY version that doesn't paint in my mind a picture where the landlords and tenant are both sociopaths. Even supposing Nicole is as bad as sfgate.com paints her, Morrow would be just as crazy to stay there...unless of course he had nothing of value, and was living rent-free as threatchaos.com suggests. Also, "chronic debilitating migrane headaches" sounds like whiny ***** to me, because I HAVE chronic migraines, /some/ of which really are quite debilitating. I could still relocate if I had to--with little additional difficulty--and I doubt I'd get a shred of sympathy from any legal authorities around here even if it were significantly more difficult.
On one side I see drastically insufficient motive to warrant the alleged aggression, and on the other side, I see no legitimate motive to endure it. My conclusion? I don't buy any of it. Somewhere there's a completely different third version of the story...possibly a combination of honest accidents and total paranoia that later escalates into hateful rivalry on both sides, and a recollection of early details that is skewed by that hatred. - etx313, on 04/01/2009, -1/+5Steve doesn't give handouts, he takes them. (ie OSS)
- pottery59, on 04/01/2009, -3/+7Um legal is what sense? Last time I rented an apartment in the Bay Area I had to sign a 15 page lease agreement. If I was ten days late I got an eviction notice. Three weeks late and they scheduled a court date. Hell my belongings are in Public Storage right now in Sunnyvale. If I am a day late they charge $20 and start to threaten to sell my beautiful collection of Ikea furniture at the curb. Morrow had not paid anything to the Macys since June 2006. How is a he a legal tenant?
- whiledo, on 04/01/2009, -0/+4And from reading the other comments, SF law says once the contract is up it goes month to month. sportbikepilot's post is an example of why you have to have laws to constrain landlords.
Also, if you've ever known a migraine sufferer, you'll know they can be devastating. Not saying this Morrow guy really is one and isn't lying, but it's a fact. - whiledo, on 04/01/2009, -1/+4Did it ever occur to you that you're actually doing the Macys a disservice by writing this article in this way? It has actually HURT their credibility that the articles against them are well written and full of specific allegations, but yours mainly consists of "that guy is a squatter. and crazy! and a poo poo head!"
If you could have actually rebutted the specific allegations, you would have helped the Macys out. I came into this neutral and read your article first. Then I read the anti-Macy ones, with the full understanding that both of you are telling one side of the story. Now I am actually biased towards believing the "squatter" and will likely not care enough to read another article that might be posted to digg in the future that IS better written.
Kudos. - rnstech, on 04/01/2009, -0/+3I only dug it because I was unaware of all the different articles, and at least I got to read more about it. Looking for the commonality, and then what's most logical to follow those common threads, and I still can't determine the facts. The whole thing is messed up, and it seems to me both sides are guilty of something. Which guilt is law breaking is up to someone smarter than me to figure out.
"You can't handle the truth!" - inactive, on 04/01/2009, -0/+3The DA might have some rich material. After all, people only choose a career in law enforcement after being scarred in childhood by walking in on their parents having sex. Guy probably has a lot of skeletons in his closet...
- whiledo, on 04/02/2009, -0/+3Yes, it is very much possible for both sides in an argument to be total dicks.
- Uncle_Joe, on 04/01/2009, -3/+6Great job digg... How about reading the entire story next time?
- HonoredMule, on 04/01/2009, -0/+3No one claimed any of this was unbiased...but we've really got sketchy /details/ to go on, let alone reliable sources.
- fluxion, on 04/01/2009, -1/+4yes, minions, digg this man down for not blindly defending a BSD developer! *evil laughs*
- Treshnell, on 04/01/2009, -0/+2I hope I get a cat that can haz mai cheezberger
- SteveMax, on 04/01/2009, -0/+2I got Vegeta saying it's over 9000!
- whiledo, on 04/01/2009, -1/+3I think the support for Reiser had more about identifying with him than anything else. It's a human reaction that isn't limited to open source fans. If a person is like you, there will be an inevitable tendency to put yourself in their shoes and believe them.
- inactive, on 04/01/2009, -1/+3I hate flash paper..
- rsmith32, on 04/01/2009, -1/+3April Fools!
- leecho0, on 04/02/2009, -0/+1This is a pretty crazy story... read the legal document. It's a long but pretty interesting read. This case is seriously messed up.
So the Macy's bought an apt complex, which wasn't in the best shape (there are docs to prove there were issues w/ the apt, like the lack of fire alarms). Then they found out that someone (Scott Morrow) was already in their complex _without a lease_ who paid $300/month for his room but used the whole apartment for himself and his homeless friends. They refused to accept the $300 and asked him to move out. He refused to move out or pay the rent that they were typically charging ($1650/month), instead, he installs cameras and sensors and start recording conversations that he overhears in the hallway.
They start renovation with a part of the complex, and hire this guy, Cartagena to help with renovations in parts of the complex. They thought he was a nice guy and asked him to find some tenants for the place as well. He would collect the rent for the Macy's and would get a portion of the rent for himself. He found a few tenants through craigslist and he also moved into the complex as well, all without a lease. When his relationship with the Macy's turned sour for whatever reason, he refused to pay any of the rent he collected or pay any himself. He wrote backdated leases and changed the terms to get the tenants on his side. He even locked the Macy's out of the complex by changing the locks.
Now the Macy's are really pissed because they weren't getting rent from any of the tenants in building and couldn't kick anyone out even after tring to call the police and claim the tenants were tresspassing. Now, none of this next part is proven to be true, but I'm guessing it is. They get so mad that they go into the apartments and start throwing things out; they go into another time to pour ammonia on tenant's clothes; they try to get the building declared as unsafe following a fire, but failing that, they cut the joists that made the building structurally unsafe; they even got a saw blade to cut up through the floor of a tenant's apartment.
I really feel bad for the Macy's, it seems like they weren't able to collect rent since 2005 and they were getting screwed over when they tried every legal means possible to get the squatters to move out, but I think they went over the line. Seriously... a sawblade through the floor...? - CTRaiderThe1st, on 04/02/2009, -0/+1*It's
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