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Deluded SCO CEO on witness stand: “Linux is a copy of UNIX”

arstechnica.com — Darl McBride entered a courtroom to assert his rights regarding legacy System V code, which he still contends exists within Linux. This despite years of discovery turning up zero evidence to support the assertion. Ars reports from the scene of the Novell v. SCO trial.

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  • MrViklund, on 05/01/2008, -3/+100This is still going on?
    • wonderchemist, on 05/01/2008, -1/+62Actually this is different. This case is Novell (who the court previously found to be the real owner of UNIX) suing SCO. Now if you remember Microsoft and Sun paid SCO royalties related to the use of UNIX code. Novell argues since SCO isn't the real owner of UNIX, SCO owes them those royalties. SCO agues that since Linux is a copy of UNIX, UNIX isn't all the valuable and the court should award Novell the the lowest monetary damages possible.
      • BrainInAJar, on 05/02/2008, -23/+2Sun paid SCO for some x86 drivers. Regardless if they own UNIX or not ( they don't ), they /did/ own those drivers

        Stop spreading FUD
        • yodaj007, on 05/02/2008, -0/+13You're the one spreading FUD. Unless you care to substantiate your claims? Sun bought licenses to SVR4, not some drivers. Stop posting without knowing your material.
    • noseeme, on 05/02/2008, -1/+15To get a good understanding of how stupid these SCO lawsuits are, look up "SCO v. AutoZone"
      Seriously, this ***** makes less sense than getting a single integer when you divide something by 0.
      • mGARANDEUR1, on 05/02/2008, -17/+2You know what makes even less sense than that? Your comment!
        • nmnnotmyname, on 05/02/2008, -1/+6At first I thought you were talking to yourself.
      • mrsteveman1, on 05/02/2008, -1/+7Yea that would be almost as bad using : instead of ; to close lines of code, and i think we all know how bad that is!
      • nmnnotmyname, on 05/02/2008, -1/+9AutoZone? Wow, I didn't even know that. They're even more ***** stupid than I thought.
      • EricAnderton, on 05/02/2008, -0/+5Wow. Way to go SCO. Sue your former customer (AutoZone) when they change products? Man, these guys are awful.
  • bitterg, on 05/01/2008, -0/+46I think the courts should be abel to recoup some of their costs from having to deal with cases perpetrated by idiots like McBride. It should be illegal to say ***** like that in court.
    • WolverineBlue, on 05/01/2008, -0/+27It actually IS illegal to lie in court. Since they're under oath, it falls under perjury.
      • Wartyboskfapped, on 05/01/2008, -0/+17It is very hard to prove whether such statements are lies or stupidity. If the latter, then it aint perjury.
        • Tenoq, on 05/02/2008, -0/+7Well perhaps instead he needs to be institutionalised. It's a fairly insane assertion, is it not? :p
          • mrsteveman1, on 05/02/2008, -3/+7That Linux is a clone of Unix? not really.

            Linux is 100% new code but its definitely a copy of Unix, the syscalls are similar, its posix compliant and probably SUS compliant if anyone bothered to pay for the certification.
          • bejayel, on 05/02/2008, -0/+6mrsteve

            So you are saying that i can go make a posix compliant system with similar calls to linux and it would be a copy of linux? Not a chance. Unix is still extremely valuable, no matter how similar unix and linux act.
          • ferrite, on 05/02/2008, -2/+6@mrsteveman1
            So is my girlfriend's hairdryer a copy of my toaster because they both generate heat and use the same type of plug?
          • mrsteveman1, on 05/02/2008, -2/+4If you can't tell the difference between heat and posix behavior in an OS....

            You can go make a posix compliant system and thats what you'd have, a posix compliant system, not a copy of Linux. But lets get something straight, Unix came first, and slowly standards sort of emerged. Linux complies with these standards just like all the others do.

            Linux is a posix compliant system, as is OS X, as is Unixware, and AIX and any number of the others.

            Comparing everything to Unix doesn't make sense though because its the standards and behavior that matter.
          • ferrite, on 05/02/2008, -0/+4@mrsteveman1
            So then I guess Microsoft should get into this since the NT kernels have a POSIX compatiblity layer (which you can easily access using SFU/SUA) that goes directly to the kernel unlike Cygein running from within win32..
        • Stonekeeper, on 05/02/2008, -0/+3Change the law now! We could do with less stupid people!
        • magus_melchior, on 05/02/2008, -0/+2I'm no lawyer, but I think the key difference is whether McBride knows the statement is false.
        • OrionBlastar, on 05/04/2008, -0/+1That was how Bill Clinton won his Impeachment trial.
          That is how George W. Bush will/would have won his impeachment trial.
  • Sidzilla, on 05/01/2008, -0/+53McBride seems to be of the opinion that if you tell a lie often enough it becomes the truth.
    • floort, on 05/01/2008, -10/+39What, he's Republican?
      • jcaino, on 05/01/2008, -7/+23No, he's a Clinton. Zing!
        • Tenlow, on 05/01/2008, -4/+27So he's a Republican then.
        • Atomic1fire, on 05/02/2008, -15/+4What planet are you on
          Clinton = Democrat
          Lets ignore all the scandals involving president Clinton and attack republicans instead
        • RawCoyote, on 05/02/2008, -7/+3BILL Clinton = Democrat
          Hillary Clinton = Republican
          Got it straight now?
          • mrsteveman1, on 05/02/2008, -1/+6Hillary clinton = insane

            There, now i got it
      • Tenoq, on 05/02/2008, -0/+7The problem for the rest of us (non-US citizens) is that most of these US political jokes go right over our heads. :p Hell, I imagine most of you have very little idea who Kevin Rudd is - and even less of an idea who Brendan Nelson is. It's ok though, most Australians don't know who Brendan Nelson is either... *smirk*
        • BrainInAJar, on 05/02/2008, -13/+2if US political jokes go over your head, you're woefully uninformed about the world.

          World's only remaining superpower, probably advantageous to know about their political goings-on...
          • dacheetah, on 05/02/2008, -0/+9lmao. Only super power... Ok.
            Jesus Christ some american's are arrogant.
          • ferrite, on 05/02/2008, -0/+8It's spelled Wal-Mart.
          • FairDinkumMate, on 05/02/2008, -0/+5World's only remaining superpower - Would you like to add a timeline to that statement...
          • Macskeeball, on 05/02/2008, -0/+4@BrainInAJar: I'm an American, and your comment is both absurd and arrogant. Buried.
        • Darkhacker, on 05/02/2008, -1/+10It doesn't real matter who you pick. Our congress is full of *****. It just happens to be divided in to two piles, Republican and Democrat. The average voter is a complete ***** moron. We go in alternating cycles of who has the house majority because when the Republicans ***** up, people are under some delusions belief that the other pile of ***** is going to make it all better. Then the reverse happens, Dems ***** up, Reps elected. They both suck. They pick a side before hearing or understanding the issue instead of rationally thinking about each issue individually (Independent) and coming to a logical conclusion. They rather have a circle jerk with other members of their party.
    • gamelord12, on 05/02/2008, -0/+5Truthiness?
    • Skooma714, on 05/02/2008, -0/+6Cake?
    • fokov, on 05/02/2008, -0/+3It works for Government officials, teachers, cops, managers, ceos, boyfriends, girlfriends, mothers, and fathers so why not?
    • Stonekeeper, on 05/02/2008, -1/+3Yeah, just like Comical Ali, Steve Balmer, FOX News....
      • Thuktun, on 05/02/2008, -0/+1"Comical Ali"

        I think you're probably thinking of "Baghdad Bob", Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf.
        • GMorgan, on 05/03/2008, -0/+1In the UK we call him Comical Ali in reference to Chemical Ali.
    • tnoy, on 05/05/2008, -0/+1It worked for the Bush administration.
  • obijohn, on 05/01/2008, -2/+89FTA: "McBride attempted to reinforce his argument with analogy. 'When you go to the bookstore and look in the UNIX section, there's books on 'How to Program UNIX' but when you go to the Linux section and look for 'How to Program Linux' you're not gonna find it, because it doesn't exist.'"

    Funny, a google search for "how to program UNIX" returns 10 results (with the linked article being one), but "how to program Linux" returns over 1,000.

    What a maroon.
    • FirstDivision, on 05/02/2008, -15/+2Sorry, can't help it. He's a maroon? What type of maroon is he?
    • Atomic1fire, on 05/02/2008, -5/+1A descendant of a runaway slave in the Americas?
    • pcpimpster, on 05/02/2008, -8/+2His remark is retarded but about your google search...
      how to program UNIX: 3,520,000
      how to program Linux: 63,300,000
      I guess you meant books but for the record on the web its 21/1 for results compared to 100/1 to one for books...
      Who buys books...?
      • enclaved, on 05/02/2008, -1/+9Try quotes. They were in his queries for a reason.
      • init100, on 05/02/2008, -1/+1I buy books. I prefer reading long texts on paper rather than reading on-screen.
    • fokov, on 05/02/2008, -1/+3Dugg for Bugs quote :D
    • yenster, on 05/02/2008, -0/+3Foghorn Leghorn on McBride: "Boy's as sharp as a bowling ball."
    • fluxion, on 05/03/2008, -0/+1i dont even think darl mcbride knows what unix is
  • dmcbride6, on 05/01/2008, -1/+62I suppose this would be a bad story for me to comment on?
    • spritom, on 05/02/2008, -0/+9You're just a copy of Darl McBride!

      or are you the "other brother Darl?"
      • dmcbride6, on 05/02/2008, -0/+9Same first initial and last name :/ depressing isnt it?
        • stalefries, on 05/02/2008, -0/+5dmcbride6? That means that there at least 5 other clones of you!
        • snotrokit, on 05/02/2008, -0/+4oh dude.. I am so sorry. I wouldn't call Novell for tech support if I were you.
    • Stonekeeper, on 05/04/2008, -0/+1you just made my day buddy :D
      Nice write up by Wayne. Hope the job's going ok :)
  • Johnny1337h4x0r, on 05/01/2008, -0/+21I'm one of the people who knows very little about Linux, other than Ubuntu of course. Can someone please either explain or point out a website or something that would explain Unix/Linux in more detail so that I could laugh with the rest of the 1337s?
    • daradib, on 05/01/2008, -0/+21Wikipedia. If you lookup SCO, Unix, and GNU/Linux, etc. you will see articles which have even more links to other articles, some of which detail SCO's battles. A side note, GNU/Linux is another name for "Linux," which is more correct because it credits the operating system to not just the kernel (Linux), but the GNU Project as well, which has developed the largest portion of a GNU/Linux or "Linux" system.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU/Linux
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_project
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCO_Group
      • earthforce1, on 05/02/2008, -0/+2There is a website which has been following every nuance of this since the start:
        http://www.groklaw.com/

        Be prepared for a long read - it has been dragging on for years.
    • gudnbluts, on 05/01/2008, -2/+20Linux shell commands, permissions and various other structures are based on Unix. I came to Linux from a Unix background and had to look up very little as most of the stuff I know works. Claiming "there is no difference" (to quote the article) is just plain wrong, but they have a huge overlap of similarity.
      • stalefries, on 05/02/2008, -0/+6They may function similarly, but the argument is over stolen source code. This is like saying that TextEdit and Notepad are the same because they both produce text files, and have the same User Interface.
        • Macskeeball, on 05/02/2008, -2/+1Isn't Notepad just for plain-text files (.txt)? TextEdit also does rich text, so I think that would make it more like Wordpad + Notepad, with a few more more advanced typography features.
      • init100, on 05/02/2008, -0/+1They have a common API, called POSIX, or more recently SUS (Single UNIX Specification). It is an open standard, and thus, anyone can make their OS POSIX/SUS-compliant. And because of this, there are bound to be similarities in Unix and Linux, even if no code copying took place.
    • UcIc, on 05/02/2008, -0/+8The GNU team was working on their own open source operating system and managed to implement a plethora of utilities/architecture (arguably the most important being the GNU C compiler, GCC), but they lacked a working kernel for it.
      Linus Torvalds loved using UNIX at his school, but had no means of acquiring it for home use, so he decided to program a "clone" of it. Luckily the microkernel that Linus was working on fit quite well with the GNU project's architecture and Linux was born.
      Revolution OS is a great documentary on the history of Linux and the GNU Project:
      http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7707585592 ...
      • Bonzodog, on 05/02/2008, -0/+5FYI, Linux is a monolithic Kernel, not a Microkernel.
      • Buu700, on 05/02/2008, -0/+1Minix was the microkernel, not Linux.
    • Knet88, on 05/02/2008, -0/+1Search "SCO" in eweek.com ,Linux-Watch.com, and/or desktoplinux.com
  • farkis, on 05/01/2008, -0/+23Do you think he's bitter SCO didn't really buy Unix from Novell?
  • TheThirdLevel, on 05/01/2008, -1/+11I'm going to make a company called "E" and then I will call any company ending with "e" a copy!
    • Atomic1fire, on 05/02/2008, -0/+6sounds more like CopE
    • mckooiker, on 05/02/2008, -0/+1then just call it "T", then you could start suing microsoft........
  • nmnnotmyname, on 05/01/2008, -4/+18lol, This is insanity. Still fighting? Isn't it time to ***** quit? You can't make money off of Linux, Get over it SCO.
  • Cycline3, on 05/01/2008, -2/+50A Ford is a copy of a Toyota because it achieves the same goals and runs on the same gas... isn't it obvious that Linux is a theft of UNIX?
    • gudnbluts, on 05/02/2008, -21/+1You do know that Linux IS based on Unix?
      • theaceoffire, on 05/02/2008, -0/+12Go look it up again.
        • gudnbluts, on 05/02/2008, -10/+0I did. I'm right, and anyone who regularly uses both knows that.
        • dmcbride6, on 05/02/2008, -0/+2All we really care about is the fact that SCO has yet to show one example of code that infringes upon them...

          Sorry this was meant for the guy who said "I did. I'm right"
          • gudnbluts, on 05/02/2008, -1/+1I doubt there is any. I've said above that I disagree with this guy's statement that they're the same. It's true that one's based on the other though (not meaning in a source code way) and that's all I'm arguing.
        • bejayel, on 05/02/2008, -0/+2I believe you were thinking of Minix, not Unix. And the only reason Linux is similar to Minix is because that is the host system that was used to develop Linux. See Wikipedia: Minix
          • Bonzodog, on 05/02/2008, -0/+1The Mono vs Micro Argument applies here. Minix is a Microkernel, Linux is a Monolithic. Minix was *initially* used as a base system to develop the initial C code for the Linux kernel, but as soon as Linus had a working Linux Kernel, he booted from that and worked around it. The Linus Torvalds vs Andrew Tanenbaum debate is famous amongst those who follow the history of Linux.
      • PopcornDave, on 05/02/2008, -0/+15And Windows was based on Apple's products which were based on Xerox's so what's your point?
      • MadLeper, on 05/02/2008, -14/+1There would be no Linux if there was no Unix..

        Do you think Linux was coded from scratch ?
        • Atomic1fire, on 05/02/2008, -0/+13Yeah it was
          There would not be any Toyota if there were not any fords
          Henry ford made for first cheap car which indirectly caused a market for cars that everyone uses with multiple brands
          Of course there would not be a linux
          If there was no Unix then There would have been no need for a free unix like os
        • porl, on 05/02/2008, -0/+14yes, it was actually. it started as linus torvald's own personal implementation of unix compatible standards (minus the parts that he thought were wrong or could be done better). there is *no* code from unix that he used to 'build linux on top of' or whatever you are implying
        • init100, on 05/02/2008, -0/+3"There would be no Linux if there was no Unix."

          Probably not.

          "Do you think Linux was coded from scratch?"

          It was. Any similarities with Unix is because they provide the same API, called POSIX/SUS.
      • BrainInAJar, on 05/02/2008, -1/+3it's not really based on UNIX... Linus et al saw UNIX and said "me too!!!"

        That's kinna the point of this whole legal thunderdome
    • secrity, on 05/02/2008, -2/+14Actually, Toyota copied Ford. For many of the features that are found in every car, everybody copied Cadillac.
      • ninja0, on 05/02/2008, -0/+3but doesn't matter cuz japanese vehicles are more technologically advanced. So now its american cars catching up. You may disagree, because you dont even see it. If you go to japan you will see. North americans deliberately disallow some of the technology to come here in their cars so they can still compete.
        • fokov, on 05/02/2008, -1/+4Welcome to America, land of the free [well if you can pay the government enough], home of the brave [soldiers that die protecting corporate interests]
    • ninja0, on 05/02/2008, -0/+3way better analogy.
    • eleete, on 05/02/2008, -2/+0Check Out http://www.techdirt.com every once in a while to read the insane and whacky world of Intellectual Property Lawsuits. It's almost as stupid funny as Family Guy, my favorite satire TV show.

      e
  • Terasiel, on 05/01/2008, -0/+22...Who do you sue to stop Linux? Wouldn't that be like suing for the use of flash drives at this point?
    • ninja0, on 05/02/2008, -0/+1Something along those lines, yes. Or suing the use of a keyboard because its a copy of suns keyboards or something retarded like that
    • eleete, on 05/02/2008, -1/+0You'll Love this then... Seagate claiming to own the technology behind flash / usb technology... it's a great laugh... IP laws are so perverse toward greed....
      http://blogs.zdnet.com/storage/?p=318

      e
    • fokov, on 05/02/2008, -0/+1No, but people like me are waiting for the real court session to finally put the nail in the coffin of Unix copyrights vs Linux. The second that happens, more and more businesses will invest their own technological future in the product because they can control it while gaining value from other free workers.
  • Syphon8, on 05/01/2008, -11/+4Linux is a copy of UNIX?!

    No wai!
    • noseeme, on 05/02/2008, -0/+10Well, Linux was actually coded from the ground up to be a functional replacement program for certain UNIX functionalities. So, a copy? Not really.
    • Syphon8, on 05/03/2008, -1/+1It was coded from the ground up to be like UNIX... So it was a copy...
  • pstroll, on 05/01/2008, -3/+8Don't forget to pay your $699 you ***** smuggling tea baggers!!!
    • absurdist, on 05/02/2008, -2/+6I believe the actual troll is "*****-smoking teabaggers." But thanks for playing.
  • papastout, on 05/01/2008, -2/+18Ummm, yeah - just like the incandescent light bulb is essentialy a copy of the wheel.

    *****
    • noseeme, on 05/02/2008, -0/+14They both have rounded parts.
      See? SCO wins.
      • gudnbluts, on 05/02/2008, -15/+0You do know Unix predated Linux by 20 years, and most of the shell commands are identical, for instance? No, you probably don't.
        • Atomic1fire, on 05/02/2008, -1/+10Hence the term Unix Like
        • porl, on 05/02/2008, -2/+8so why aren't sco trying to fight the gnu project then? linux is a kernel. those shell commands are generally from the gnu project or elsewhere.
        • noseeme, on 05/02/2008, -0/+7I wasn't expecting my sarcasm to fail this hard.
        • srg13, on 05/02/2008, -0/+3The 'commands' have nothing to do with Linux - they are either built into Bash or GNU programs. But that's not the point - having similar commands would only work if they were claiming that they owned patents for the commands (which they couldn't do). This is about copyright - the code would have to be the same (or at least a derivative of) the UNIX code for it to be infringing...
        • papastout, on 05/02/2008, -0/+2Not only do I know it, I am versed in it. Unix was my playplace in college - about 20 years ago I was mudding, surfing the (.edu - text based) internet, even writing my own shell on the Next cube while amped up on jolt cola is a long standing good memory of those days. yeah, just about twenty years to date it...

          So what the HELL is your point? Do you even have one? No, yo uprobably don't.
  • felidaeus, on 05/01/2008, -0/+34Linux Is Not Unix
    • SirKi11a1ot, on 05/02/2008, -1/+20In fact, GNU, which is everything except the kernel, stands for "GNU is Not Unix"
      • Darkhacker, on 05/02/2008, -4/+8I should make my own distribution that is completely void of any GNU software just to end this ***** myth about GNU. Richard Stallman blows the importance of GNU *way* out of proportion. He's just ***** that Torvalds beat him to the punch. GNU is a toolchain, or a set of utilities that run on top of Linux. I could replace the entire GNU toolchain and it would still be Linux.

        GNU isn't as large or vast as RMS wants you to believe. He tries this "Linux is just a kernel" BS knowing full well that the kernel is the most important thing to an OS.
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_GNU_packages# ...
        • Ademan, on 05/02/2008, -0/+11Bad news, GNU userland is the best userland around. Try going to another *nix and you suddenly realize all of your GNU extensions to your favorite tools are gone (heck, FreeBSD and probably the rest of the family, has recognized the importance and ubiquity of GNU userland and has made a point to copy their features as often as possible/makes sense)
          • mjPayne, on 05/02/2008, -0/+12I second that. It's not easy to write a compiler as complex as GCC. Even if you have the skill, it take years to research and code a compiler for so many CPUs and systems as GCC. Hats off to RMS and others that made Linux what is is today. And truth be told, I think if GCC was not available when Linux wrote his first kernel then Linux would have remained just an academic exercise.
          • entidi, on 05/03/2008, -0/+2I third that. A single project in the GNU world is at least as important as the kernel: the C library. If not mentioned in wikipedia don't mean it doesn't exist!
        • UKsHaDoW, on 05/02/2008, -1/+1The arn't many compliers that can compile linux correctly other than gcc, there Intel's but you have to pay.
    • andrewtheart, on 05/02/2008, -0/+16What did you think Linus Torvalds's parents named him "Linus"?

      ** Linux Is Not Unix, Stupid **
    • tama00, on 05/02/2008, -1/+2SCO:
      Sell other Companys Out.
  • witcompe, on 05/01/2008, -0/+16Am I the only one surprised that K. Fed would be reading up on SCO vs Linux litigation?
    • eleete, on 05/02/2008, -2/+0I'm sure he's the one foolish enough to hold SCO stock to the end, thinkin' Maybe they do own it ! LOL

      e
  • CheeseburgerBro, on 05/01/2008, -5/+3Ah-HAW!

    /Nelson
  • ptFoe, on 05/02/2008, -0/+5This what happens when you place drugged up whores on the stand.

    Thankfully this type of ***** doesn't happen in GTA4.
  • kontraire, on 05/02/2008, -0/+19Darl McBride is scum. If I were a SCO shareholder, I'd be organizing a lynch mob right about now...
    • akkibaba, on 05/02/2008, -0/+6You'd think that any such lynch mob should have been organized when SCO declared bankruptcy in September 2007.
      • earthforce1, on 05/02/2008, -0/+3Yes - about 48 hours before this trial was originally supposed to start. You don't think SCO had any inkling they were about to get their hat handed to them?
    • pcghost, on 05/02/2008, -0/+3I remember reading an article a few years ago saying he packs heat to protect himself from angry Linux geeks. So lynch mob beware.
      He's not worth the torches. Do you honestly think he will get another CEO spot after the titanic-like sinking of SCO?
      • fluxion, on 05/03/2008, -0/+1wouldnt be surprised. boneheaded guys like this head companies all the time. some people only care that a guy has the balls to make tough decisions, even if they're all the wrong ones.
  • noseeme, on 05/02/2008, -0/+10I can't believe this SCO ***** is still going on. I wouldn't be surprised if someone discovered that SCO is just a front operation created by Microsoft (HINT HINT).
    • fluxion, on 05/03/2008, -0/+1sco's little run is over i think. they're the ones getting f'd now by novell. i hope it's slow and painful after they ***** they've dragged everyone else though
  • compgeek, on 05/02/2008, -5/+1well his statement might be technically true there are so many variations on linux that to try and stop it now would be like trying to reverse a nuclear chain reaction can't be done
    • bejayel, on 05/02/2008, -0/+4Umm there arent variants on linux (well maybe there is, i am not well informed about this). Just people who decided that they want linux to be easier to use. Ubuntu, for example, is not a "variant" of linux. It is a distrobution of linux that has a bunch of programs preinstalled and preconfigured to meet the needs of every day users.
  • cmdrNacho, on 05/02/2008, -0/+13whats new .... upper management not having any clue of what the technology there company is involved with.
    • akkibaba, on 05/02/2008, -0/+8McBride graduated from Brigham Young with a degree in Sociology and then he earned a Masters Degree in Industrial Relations from the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign.

      So, this dude is not an engineer and doesn't know jack ***** about jack *****.
  • oregonbob2000, on 05/02/2008, -13/+0Yes you guys, Linux is a derivative of Unix. If you don't think so, get hold of a unix 10 years before linux was ever released. commands are almost identical, structures identical. I hate what SCO did, but I would not doubt a bit if some early breakthroughs in Linux did not happen after someone happened to see some Unix source code. Again, I still do not approve of what SCO did, but they probably were infringed a few times through linux history.
    • mikeivanov, on 05/02/2008, -0/+10Hey, have you _ever_ heard about POSIX?
      • BrainInAJar, on 05/02/2008, -3/+2which GNU/Linux isn't even entirely compatible with.

        Run the test suites, Linux fails.
        • mikeivanov, on 05/05/2008, -0/+1Which essentially means Linux != UNIX
    • dr3d, on 05/02/2008, -9/+0of course you are correct - someone was staring at Unix manuals when they created Linux -- but then most diggers have never used actual Unix ... so i dont' predict you'll get thumbs-up-ed much
      • bejayel, on 05/02/2008, -0/+5You're both being "thumbed down" because you are both wrong. Linux was developed that way from the ground up. Linux was in trouble from Minix because of this exact topic, which was proven to be wrong. Linux tried to meet POSIX standards and be Unix LIKE, that is where the similarities end.
      • ferrite, on 05/02/2008, -0/+3I dunno, I've used Solaris, several BSD's, OSX (which is a BSD offspring), Xenix, System 5, and even SCO's Unix, and I still think you're an idiot.
        Linux was a clean-room engineered copy of Minix (a Unix clone), which was a clean-room engineered copy of System 5 (again, no code shared at any point).
        Infact SCO's Unix comes with GCC, XFree86, and Bash.
        SCO's Unix took from the Free Software world but didn't contribute anything to it.
        Let me stress that again... there is no UNIX code in Linux.
        and BTW, this isn't the same SCO that once owned the copyright, it used to be Caldera, a Linux distributor, they took the name and a bunch of money from Microsoft in order to raise this *****-storm.
        • Bonzodog, on 05/02/2008, -2/+1you are almost right except for the bit where you say that Linux is a clean room copy of Minix. Linux and Minix are actually at opposite ends of the spectrum. Minix = Micro, Linux = Mono.
          • ferrite, on 05/02/2008, -0/+2So it's just a coincidence that Linux was a Minix user that first tried to build a small kernel and first announced it on the Minix mailing list?

            Message-ID: 1991Aug25.205708.9541@klaava.helsinki.fi
            From: torvalds@klaava.helsinki.fi (Linus Benedict Torvalds)
            To: Newsgroups: comp.os.minix
            Subject: What would you like to see most in minix?
            Summary: small poll for my new operating system

            Hello everybody out there using minix-

            I'm doing a (free) operating system (just a hobby, won't be big and professional like gnu) for 386 (486) AT clones. This has been brewing since april, and is starting to get ready. I'd like any feedback on things people like/dislike in minix, as my OS resembles it somewhat (same physical layout of the file-sytem due to practical reasons)among other things.

            I've currently ported bash (1.08) an gcc (1.40), and things seem to work. This implies that i'll get something practical within a few months, and I'd like to know what features most people want.

            Any suggestions are welcome, but I won't promise I'll implement them :-)

            Linus Torvalds torvalds@kruuna.helsinki.fi

            Just because it evolved into something different doesn't mean it didn't start that way.
            Your argument is like saying Penguins aren't birds and instead are walruses because they don't fly and swim instead.
          • ferrite, on 05/02/2008, -0/+2Dammit, Linus was a Minix user. I'm a key slipping bastard.
          • Buu700, on 05/02/2008, -0/+1*Macro

            (Monokernel?)
    • porl, on 05/02/2008, -0/+3perhaps then you could point out where in the archives those infringements are?? no, i don't expect you to be able, but sco sure had the chance. there is freely accessible code for *every* release of the kernel from 0.1 (i think 0.2 is missing, but the changes from 0.1 through 0.3 weren't that major yet from memory). you can download the first release linus ever made and see exactly what is in there, and *still* sco couldn't show any infringement.
      • boregard, on 05/02/2008, -3/+0That is a ridiculous request. Hell no I can't. I can tell you for certain I worked on SCO boxes that basically are identical to linux, Yes I heard of POSIX, it came along LATER when everyone thought Unix should be unified. Funny, I'm a linux supporter and you guys seems to be throwing stones. All I am stating is fact. This is weird, it is sort of like denying the holocaust happened. Revisionist history. Thats OK, if you all agree and deny, it will be true someday. Remember, I never thought SCO should do what they did. McBride destroyed that company.
    • mjPayne, on 05/02/2008, -0/+8So, by your definition, any new brand of cars are copies of Toyotas, Chevys, etc. since they have the same functions, controls and similar parts.
      • FairDinkumMate, on 05/02/2008, -0/+3Wow - I'd better go & buy a ***** of shares in Ford then. Even if they can't claim the car equipment that whole 'production line thing' should be worth a bit!!!
  • ghat2008, on 05/02/2008, -3/+0Wake up SCO! There is no way they can claim Linux is theirs.
    • bejayel, on 05/02/2008, -0/+3Um they arent...
      They are doing damage control. Trying to limit the amount that they have to pay Novell.
  • obxjdt, on 05/02/2008, -4/+8The only thing that Linux & UNIX share is the file system. In all actuality, Linux was built because Linus Torvalds wasn't happy with the way Minix worked.
    Minix is UNIX, but Linux isn't either one. However (brace your selfs) Mac IS UNIX....
    http://www.linux.org/info/
    • mjPayne, on 05/02/2008, -1/+8I assume by "file system" you're referring to file arrangement (/bin /usr etc) since ext2, ext3 reiserfs, etc are not in any Unix I know.
    • eleete, on 05/02/2008, -0/+3I think its more to the point that Linus Torvalds liked all the unices, including the one referenced. And yes MacOS is built on BSD one of the original AT&T forks of unix, awesome choice by them I think, and many other fine choices exist as well. Open Architecture and Open Source are the way for me though. Enjoy the rest. ; )

      e
    • SnowCrashv5, on 05/02/2008, -0/+3Mac is BSD, but certified as Unix. Big difference.
      • obxjdt, on 05/03/2008, -0/+1From http://www.apple.com/macosx/technology/unix.html

        "UNIX certification.
        Leopard is an Open Brand UNIX 03 Registered Product, conforming to the SUSv3 and POSIX 1003.1 specifications for the C API, Shell Utilities, and Threads. Since Leopard can compile and run all your existing UNIX code, you can deploy it in environments that demand full conformance — complete with hooks to maintain compatibility with existing software. "
  • stix213, on 05/02/2008, -0/+6Man, the people at SCO are so stupid. If they had just not threatened people over Linux they could have kept on not giving novell their 20 million+ in royalties and kept illegally licensing to 3rd parties. No one probably would have ever known, or really even cared. SCO thought they could steal a few extra bucks by stirring up some crap about Linux and POOF!!!! "Where'd the money go????"
    • bejayel, on 05/02/2008, -0/+3In all fairness, they DID think Unix was theirs at first.
    • eleete, on 05/02/2008, -0/+2Makes you wonder what there motives and intentions were huh ? If you check out http://www.Groklaw.com you'll see it's an endless stream of denial to the obvious. Strange but true, I smell greed all over every single filing, and the utter stench of FUD.

      e
  • newms32, on 05/02/2008, -9/+0Buried, this same story has been reposted every week for literally the past six years.
    • eleete, on 05/02/2008, -0/+4Really ?? Funny, since one of the dates quoted is May 1st, 2008. Time to check your calendar bud.
    • newms32, on 05/03/2008, -1/+0Haha, what a brilliant observation. Anything that isn't 100% literal just flies over your head, doesn't it?
  • BryanUT, on 05/02/2008, -2/+1Obiglatory:

    Getting laid off from Novell was a good thing.
    • sparrowkc, on 05/02/2008, -1/+5...
      Novel is on the offensive here.
      ...
    • BryanUT, on 05/02/2008, -0/+3Tell that to the shares I still own. They'd love to hear about it.
  • sparrowkc, on 05/02/2008, -0/+7I don't understand why it is so hard to determine whether SCO code exists in Linux. Go to kernel.org, get the source, and ctrl-f.
    • vlurk, on 05/02/2008, -0/+4Well, at one point SCO provided some "evidence" of the copyright infringement: a bunch of header (.h) files and some subroutines if I remember correctly. The big problem was that they were all related to the implementation of standards in the public domain (like POSIX). So it was expected that they had to share at least similarities with some files of the linux kernel. Anyways, Darl can cry all the tears he wants but the copyright infringement claims have been dismissed by the court already.
      • earthforce1, on 05/02/2008, -0/+2He also tried to claim infringement based on vague techniques and methods the judge didn't buy: I.E. The subroutine does something vaguely similar to a subroutine in our code, so it must be a "non-literal copy". (To use his words)
  • rollerboy, on 05/02/2008, -2/+5Oh man I thought I knew what Linux was but all this jargon has me confused. I'll be in wikipedia.
  • MrDo, on 05/02/2008, -0/+8Perhaps they are hoping for another shot of money from Microsoft.
  • techweenie, on 05/02/2008, -6/+1Okay, I'm not an OS weenie, but didn't Torvalds admit to having copied some flavor of UNIX into Linux?
    • linuxpenguin, on 05/02/2008, -0/+5Yes, the parts that are in the public domain - which SCO doesn't own, and which are basically in every UNIX variation. So in a sense, yes he did copy them - but so did SCO, and Novell, and Apple, and the makers of FreeBSD. . . and copying them isn't illegal anyhow since they're public domain.
      • mrigns, on 05/02/2008, -0/+3The funny thing about that is that SCO doesn't even own Unix, Novell does.
  • spyd3rweb, on 05/02/2008, -0/+20code or it didn't happen
    • sliksta, on 05/02/2008, -0/+7Ballmer should learn this. Just how hard is it to find infringing code in OPEN SOURCE software?
      • Bonzodog, on 05/02/2008, -0/+3Now, here's another interesting fact. How many people know the Origins of the NT kernel?
        How many people are aware that the NT kernel is a Unix derived kernel, and the original NT TCP/IP stack actually came from BSD?
    • 4321234, on 05/02/2008, -4/+3"code or it didn't happen". It's good. Am I free to use that under the digg public license?
      • nmnnotmyname, on 05/02/2008, -2/+2You're free to stop talking under the STFU for everyone else's sake license.
      • trogdoor, on 05/02/2008, -0/+5"Content posted by Digg users is dedicated to the public domain. " It's at the bottom of every page, so yes.
        • Buu700, on 05/03/2008, -0/+2If anyone's wondering what happened to the thread that existed here previously, here's a mirror: http://ryanlesterstore.googlepages.com/Deluded_SCO ...

          Note that the content in the mirror is NOT necessarily public domain. The reason I had it removed was that it technically violated the GPL, unless I was taking trogdoor's comment a little too seriously :).
  • xen0blue, on 05/02/2008, -4/+3well, he's sort of right. kind of. he's still an idiot though.
    • ninja0, on 05/02/2008, -0/+1Its a very fine line....
    • bejayel, on 05/02/2008, -0/+2no, he isnt sort of right at all. You cant sort of be the same as something you are the same as...
      • nephilimx, on 05/02/2008, -1/+1well im baised and im a copy of my parents, I could argue both forever
  • eric4ok, on 05/02/2008, -2/+3Incompetence is actually a valid legal defense in America.
  • greyrat, on 05/02/2008, -3/+1SCO: The new RIAA
  • nmnnotmyname, on 05/02/2008, -1/+1No ***** there aren't many books on programming for Linux: It's because the UNIX programming books are all for POSIX, the API most of usermode Linux uses. Duh?
  • ahoyhoy1, on 05/02/2008, -0/+6Can someone just go ahead and kill this guy please? Is there an open-source hit man that might do it for free?
    • snotrokit, on 05/02/2008, -0/+3I think the UF guys put out a hit for an atomic wedgie years ago.
    • stix213, on 05/02/2008, -0/+1sudo apt-get install sco-hit-man.1.00
  • aloyeo, on 05/02/2008, -0/+0"We use the one line of code rule. If you took one line of code from UnixWare and used it in a derivative work, that work would become subject to a UnixWare license," Maciaszek said.

    Woohoo! I'm gonna write Hello World programs for all the languages out there and put a "default else" equivalent line in them.
    All softwares created from now on is a copy of mine! I love lawyers!
  • SonicEarth, on 05/02/2008, -0/+5GNU is Not Unix.
  • cantormath, on 05/02/2008, -0/+2Even if it was, go ahead, try to stop us.......
  • linuxpenguin, on 05/02/2008, -0/+10I laughed at this: "When asked, 'Is there any UnixWare code in Linux?' the answer was, 'There very well could be, [...] I've never done that analysis, never seen that analysis.'" So basically he's saying: "I hope so and we wanted to make a buck by saying so, but I never looked even though I should've."
    I bet that would fly over real well in real-world situations:
    "Did you understand the homework?" "I don't know, maybe - I think I do. I never looked at it."
    "Okay, so do you understand our goals for next quarter?" "Probably. I didn't listen to what they were, but I think so."
  • trp5023, on 05/02/2008, -1/+1I don't even know who's suing who, and who is the bad guy?
  • homerhomer, on 05/02/2008, -7/+1Unix is to Linux
    as
    Dos is to Windows
  • kontraire, on 05/02/2008, -0/+4SCO Group Inc. (SCOXQ.PK). Last trade: $0.11 per share. Now that's some quality managin' Darla.
    • DougVitale, on 05/02/2008, -0/+2If Microsoft and Sun paid SCO royalties related to the use of UNIX code and Novell is arguing that they deserve these royalties (since SCO isn't the real owner of UNIX), you have to wonder where SCO is going to pull these funds out from.
  • Bonzodog, on 05/02/2008, -0/+3At least this has made the MS fanbois run away, as it is waaaay above their heads.
  • al11588, on 05/02/2008, -5/+0Windows is faster then Linux. Microsoft rules majority of the market share.Microsoft- FTW. PS: Linux people are penguin faced bums that remind me of Teller from Penn and Teller.
    • srg13, on 05/04/2008, -0/+1"Windows is faster then Linux"

      Would you like to back that up with some evidence? Oh, wait, you can't, because it's not true...
  • SnowCrashv5, on 05/02/2008, -1/+2Can we put a mask of Hans Resier's wife on this guy and introduce the two already?
  • OrionBlastar, on 05/04/2008, -0/+1SCO could reference the Apple vs. Microsoft case in which Windows was found to be a copy of the Macintosh OS even if it didn't share any source code. Trade dress issues and look and feel are valid IP protections. Microsoft had to make a deal with Apple, eventually to settle the case.
    In the same way Apple sued EMacines over the eOne looking like the iMac.
    Linux is designed to work like and look like Unix, if that is proven, then SCO has a case.
  •  

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