What is Digg?103 Comments
- baalzebub, on 10/11/2007, -8/+39who makes these decisions @ Dell? they need to be fired and get someone in there that has some common sense...
there is always NewEgg.com or TigerDirect.com where you can buy a PC with no OS either already assembled or as a kit and assemble your self... - daftman, on 10/11/2007, -7/+22@flag564
Judging from your dugg stories, I can safely say that you're a Microsoft fanboy trolling especially when your number 1 story is:
"40M Vista Licenses in 100 Days Has Slashdot In Meltdown Mode." and "Leopard looks like ... Vista"
LMFAO
what are you doing so far away from your flock? Your "it's a rigged poll" rhetoric is becoming repetitive and annoying. - motang, on 10/11/2007, -4/+18I say he should go with System76 ( http://www.system76.com ). If Dell is not willing to see desktops preloaded with Ubuntu well they aren't the only ones to sell desktops preloaded with Ubuntu.
- Sparkster185, on 10/11/2007, -5/+19Yeah, really. I mean, what sane company uses Linux in production environments these days?
- thelastknowngod, on 10/11/2007, -3/+16i dont get this either. no matter what you intend to use it for a computer is still a computer. its all the same parts in there...
- schestowitz, on 10/11/2007, -6/+16The headline takes it slightly out of context. Watch the second message: "Supporting a small business must be different from supporting a home user.'
Wait until they start supporting it in a less restricted way, i.e. take it overseas and assume businesses want to do bulk orders. It's just not a standard procedure for them. No conspiracy here and the fine prints showed this a month ago (VarGuy brought this up and made the front page even). - Phocion55, on 10/11/2007, -3/+13I take it you're not a sys admin then.............
- Nocterminus, on 10/11/2007, -1/+10I think this could be a contractual agreement between Dell and Canonical to only sell to home user, since Canonical sells a support service for business .
QUOTE: (from http://www.ubuntu.com/support )
"Buy Professional Support Services
The Canonical Global Support Services team understands the challenges you face when introducing and maintaining new platforms and applications, their experience and knowledge base will ensure you maximise the return on your Linux investment. Professional support is also available from companies listed in the Canonical Marketplace." - JPDota, on 10/11/2007, -1/+8Who would give the secretary access to do that? You can screw things up in windows by deleting the WINDOWS folder. You can do it to any OS, I think your point is invalid.
- Phocion55, on 10/11/2007, -11/+18@flag564 :
"A story on the Ubuntu Forums about a man's quest, and resulting failure, to buy an Ubuntu-installed desktop for his non-profit employer."
This implies the man TRIED to make a purchase, still WANTS to make a purchase, but can't.
Stop playing the "you rigged it" and "no one is buying it" cards.....because it's mere hopeful speculation on your part. - Ramble, on 10/11/2007, -1/+8He tried, but he used his business card to pay for it which wouldn't work. If he used his own card he'd have to pay sales taxes, which he doesn't want to do.
- ruz322, on 10/11/2007, -2/+8Linux will and does run efficiently in an active directory environment using Kerberos. Don't believe me? Look it up. I also believe there is a push to get an ADS-like server running in Linux.
http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-91510.html - inactive, on 10/11/2007, -5/+11flag, Go get a life.
You don't have to prove your stupidity again and again and again. - adam.skinner, on 10/11/2007, -2/+8My company, a massive multinational financial company, uses linux (alongside with Solaris). This is primarily for servers, but we also have desktops (on the developer domain) that are linux.
- dude187, on 10/11/2007, -4/+10ATTENTION: Flag564 is not a linux user, he is a liar and a troll.
The article is about someone who _tried_ to buy one of the Dell computers preloaded with Ubuntu, which there is obviously a demand for, and was refused because it was for business use. Once again a troll spins it as being _our_ fault. Don't buy it...
No troll food for you. - sirhomer, on 10/11/2007, -2/+7I think the Ubuntu people would disagree with that. But Ubuntu does needs some better workgroup/domain management tools.
- nixdoctor, on 10/11/2007, -7/+12His question is "Is Dell really supporting Linux?" The answer is: "Not really". Though Dell has done a nice thing by listening to their customers, still they are being remote-controlled by Redmond. I smell some of the M$ dirty tactics going around behind such stories.
- richnrockville, on 10/11/2007, -2/+6Mister Flaut.
sorry but you seemed to miss the comment that they were a "small non-profit" and most likely can't afford an IT admin..
Not many small non-profits have anything resembling an IT guru unless one of their volunteers or staff has a computer at home
and ends up being the "guru"
Just a point... - cliffzdude, on 10/11/2007, -1/+5Dell is testing the waters with installing Ubuntu, do you *really* expect them to be up and running with Ubuntu systems across the board? Business users access different support centers, as such those centers will need to be trained, or at least staffed with some who can help with an Ubuntu system. Business users are FAR less forgiving than a home Linux user, so its actually rather bright that Dell is testing the waters with the home enthusiast market.
If you are a Ubuntu and/or Linux fan do you really want Dell to ***** this up? No, so to complain at the first hint that Dell isn't going all out is a bit silly. Dell will put their toe in the water, first with the user community who will offer them HUGE feedback, for free. That's great, I applaud their efforts! However if Dell rushes their Ubuntu loaded SKUs to market there will be exponentially more pissed off people.
Let Dell get it right the first time and THEN see how they do. - zang74, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4@flag564:
"And as for this "troll" thing, how EXACTLY am I a troll?"
1) Well, you hit up stories that have yet to make the front page, then claim you just click on stories that appear on your front page.
2) You insult and demean others who happen to like Apple or Unix(es). I seem to remember a quote about Apple users willingly being sodomized by Steve Jobs.
3) You consistently lie in order to try and make a point, despite people correcting you (the iPhone starts at $499, flag).
4) You're the only person in the top 100 commenters on Digg with an average negative digg number.
5) You assume that every Unix or Mac user is a raving fanboy that needs to be dismissed.
6) You regularly desert threads when valid points are brought to light that leave you with no leg to stand on.
Is that enough? Or are you still trying to claim to be the voice of "fairness and honesty" here on Digg? No one asked you to police Digg, so why are you trying to do it (with your own biased values), in the (false) name of truth? Don't claim that people just don't accept stuff they don't like hearing when people digg you down. Maybe it's just because you appear to be a complete and utter troll. - trogdoor, on 10/11/2007, -2/+6Wake up people!
They just started offering Linux support, this is likely just a trial run to get the kinks worked out and not a ready operation for true mass production ( as evidenced by the fact that it seems each and every Ubuntu Dell has to have the Windows sticker removed _by hand_ ). You can't expect a one day turn around for them to magically offer bulk orders of a new, unfamiliar product.
Be grateful they are offering Linux at all and don't make them regret it by harassing them MORE now that they do. What kind of incentive does that give them to support Linux at all when you people won't stop bitching at them? - baalzebub, on 10/11/2007, -6/+10then Dell better get their act together, if i was running a business in need of purchasing 1 or more computers with Ubuntu or any other Linux distro pre-installed and Dell gave me that line i would have hung up the phone a lot sooner than this guy did and called NewEgg or TigerDirect or ordered online...
installing Ubuntu is quick & easy, in 30 minutes it would already be up & running, so the pre-install is not really an issue these days... - daftman, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3> Really? And Im sure you have proof of this. Seeing that I'm typing this on a machine that is running Ubuntu, I guess that means you are the liar.
Can you prove that you are actually running Ubuntu? I could be saying that I'm running a supercomputer but until I prove it, it would be pointless.
> Oh, I see. If you dont tow the anti-MS line in the Linux community, you obviously cannot be using Linux and thus you must set up a website to be pinged in order to prove your purity.
Well the thing is you have always been a jerk when commenting about linux. You have never demonstrated any technical knowledge of linux. If you are someone like Phocion55 or freedomknight who actually have many technical inputs then I would believe you instantly. But you're not. You troll only stories that relate to linux adoption jump at every opportunity to ostracize those who you deem are fanboy. Yet, you are one who dugg microsoft stories and how great it is compared to OSX or Linux.
So the burden of proof is on you, not us. - inactive, on 10/11/2007, -1/+4@Ghost9
Last time I checked it out, I am able to see around $120 diff between Vista based and Ubuntu based laptops & PC's. And I don't think dell is taking losses on each and every ubuntu system its selling. In fact its able to make money without even loading two layers of crap ware, and able to directly pass $120 savings to the consumer. - GamerDonkey, on 10/11/2007, -2/+5I agree that I shouldn't have said 'businesses' in the title because this is only an example of one, but in the story the Dell representatives seemed quite reluctant to sell to any business.
And while I admit that I didn't see the VarGuy's story on what's in the fine print, I believe that issues like this need to be made very public to pressure Dell into opening up all the options for Ubuntu. It's been mentioned that Ubuntu's install is simple, but to most people I know the mere idea of having to install an operating system will turn them away from it. - inactive, on 10/11/2007, -1/+4No its about packaging a real good OS with hardware you are purchasing not some DRM'ed crap.
- turbodiesel, on 10/11/2007, -1/+4Maybe he works for some lazy bosses who don't want him spending his time building computers instead of doing the job he's hired to do. Do you really want to spend "IT Admin" wages for someone to turn a screwdriver and build PC's.
Dell sells the basic Ubuntu desktop (Dimension E520 N) for $599, how much less can a company have their IT dept. build it, including wages, benefits and overhead? Not to mention no warranty on the hardware.
Business think different about how they spend their money. - ruz322, on 10/11/2007, -3/+6Except for the fact that many business users are just as out of the loop about linux as most home users are. I work for a large retail chain in network support with over a thousand nodes and I can honestly say that many people who use computers at their business are not always computer gurus.
- JPDota, on 10/11/2007, -1/+4@Ghost9,
I am running a Dell Latitude D620, brand new, with Google Desktop pre-installed, and I just tried that, and there is none of that nonsense going on. - daftman, on 10/11/2007, -4/+7> flag564
Real research? Why the ***** would I do that when you can just easily lie about using linux. All your digged posts are Microsoft stories especially zune and how other os want to by like microsoft.
If you want to prove to us that you are actually using linux, set up a simple website, static html will do, and i'll ping it to see what system you are running it on. Otherwise, you have no ***** credibility to speak on behalf of linux.
And no, saying that you use (x|k)ubuntu does not actually mean you use it. - Sparkster185, on 10/11/2007, -5/+8Does anyone have any idea *why* Dell acted in this manner? Possibly they have some contract with MS to sell Vista Business?
- generalloy, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2"as such those centers will need to be trained, or at least staffed with some who can help with an Ubuntu system."
Dell only offers hardware support, which they provide via a FreeDOS bootable CD. Canonical deals with the Ubuntu support. I hope everyone reads that before they post that it's a support issue :)
Macofi is also correct that anything not even open source is disabled. - MURDERTRON, on 10/11/2007, -8/+10Perhaps Dell's preconfigured Ubuntu systems are ready to utilize links to software repositories which could land them in trouble if they tacitly support intellectual property violations among their clients. I don't know what they include in /etc/apt/sources.list, but I can tell you that they are not involved in maintaining those repositories. Aside from that, might there be other legal issues that affect the risk/reward situation of selling their new Ubuntu systems to businesses? Have you been to Digg lately? Do you know anything about the discussions of litigation surrounding Microsoft and Linux? C'mon. Dell is a corporation with compartmentalized interests, not the last great apostle of rugged individualism. Don't expect them to act in accordance with your impulses when you're the one who should be lambasted for not using common sense.
- daftman, on 10/11/2007, -5/+7> I'm a paper MCSA
Any odd idiot can be an MCSA. People practically pay for that certificate like buy a trophy. If you want to impress most people here, get a MCA (Microsoft Certified Architect)
@break99
So you think Sun workstations aren't serious? Active Directory isn't something that Microsoft invented. It's been out for years before microsoft adopt it. - cantormath, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2If you own a business and what to buy a bunch of desktops for your business, I cant imagine dell saying no.
- inactive, on 10/11/2007, -1/+3@shadowman
Not every corp user needs SLED or RHEL. There are normal desktop users in companies too. - macoafi, on 10/11/2007, -1/+3MURDERTRON:
The default /etc/apt/sources.list has all repos of questionable-legality disabled. Even free-to-distribute-but-not-open-source is disabled, I believe. Anything community-supported or proprietary or restricted is disabled (though the names of those repos are listed, they are inaccessible). You can edit it to enable them. Only "main" is enabled. The largest source of restricted codecs for Ubuntu, the Medibuntu repositories, are not listed at all. They are 3rd party and not supported at all. - Phocion55, on 10/11/2007, -2/+4You're right....I'm such a moran :(
- macoafi, on 10/11/2007, -1/+3break99,
Google uses Linux on their workstations too. They have their own version of Ubuntu, called Goobuntu. Not ALL of the employees use it. Some use Windows, and I think they said some use Macs too, but a lot of the workstations are Linux. - break99, on 10/11/2007, -2/+4"Yeah, really. I mean, what sane company uses Linux in production environments these days?"
Google production servers are running linux....
Don't mix workstations and servers: I want nothing but windows workstations in my network but I can see why people would want *nix servers.
I'm a windows sysadmin... - baalzebub, on 10/11/2007, -2/+4maybe Dell is cooking the books and was looking forward to pocketing some of that 90 dollars per machine they were wanting to sell...
- Goosemaster, on 10/11/2007, -1/+2Although their response was rather trite and ambiguous.....they made it difficult (NOT IMPOSSIBLE) for businesses to get their hands on a UBUNTU machine....NOT a LINUX machine per say.
As some people hinted at, the rights to some of the software included in the default install might actually open up some businesses to legal issues (technically-illegal codecs and modules (DeCSS)) can be dowloaded without much issue due to ignorance, and I doubt dell want's to bother with that. In addition, there are a lot of apps on it such as a port scanner etc, that while legal, can open a can of worms....
That and if they can't offer business-level support for it, which is their honey pot, they have no incentive to sell it. That's truly the key. Angry business customers can cost you a LOT of $$$, so they probably find it best to make it unavailable in that market.
While it is a problem, the issue seems rather cut and dry.
Getting redhat on there from them is a non-issue. - opusaz, on 10/11/2007, -2/+3If it was a desktop I'd wholeheartedly agree, but if it was a laptop then buying proprietary is still the right choice.
- macoafi, on 10/11/2007, -1/+2milkmage,
Dell doesn't provide the tech support; Canonical does. That would have nothing to do with it. - Jerim, on 10/11/2007, -1/+2The most reasonable explanation for me is that businesses require a lot more support than your average home user. At most, a home user is going to plug the box up to the internet, get email, surf some sites and write the occasional letter. A business is going to want to hook it up to their network, access shares on their server, access shared folders on other computers, and use any number of network based software packages for tracking this or that. Business computers get a lot more use, and in many different areas. Dell just doesn't want to be on the phone all day explaining how to setup any number of services, to someone who is constantly screaming "This is so stupid. I don't have to do this on all my other computers."
- barius, on 10/11/2007, -1/+2They already have the option of SuSE on Dell servers. They also have the option of 'no OS'. Why would Dell offer to install an unsupported OS (on servers) just because this guy called up and asked? It takes time and money to install any OS, especially one that is not expressly supported. Acting like a jerk to Dell tech support isn't going to convince them to start supporting Ubuntu on their servers. Dell has already provided a way for us to show our support for Ubuntu, it's called dellideastorm.com.
This article is just pointless whining by a spoiled brat. If this guy were actually concerned about supporting Ubuntu, he would have downloaded and installed it, then showed his friends what it can do. Instead, he's wasting everyone's time trying get Dell to spend their time and money to do him a personal favour. - Galactoise, on 10/11/2007, -1/+2I don't see why this is even an issue. Dell has already taken a major gamble by devoting resources to allowing home users to purchase computers with Ubuntu, and it's absurd to just expect them to act accordingly with their small business model, which is their cashcow. Dell never promised Ubuntu on its small business machines, so this sense of entitlement and the ensuing outrage is completely ridiculous.
While it may be the case that YOU despise Microsoft and its products (however legitimate or illegitimate your reasons are), you need to understand that Dell does not share your sentiment. Dell and Microsoft have a symbiotic relationship which both companies rely heavily on for profitability. For Dell to forsake this relationship and lose the good grace of its partner, especially in the name of such a trivial agenda as supporting Ubuntu, would be disastrous.
Michael Dell is not funding some sort of conspiracy to quash Ubuntu, or shield the public from Linux's evil glare. He does, however, have to answer to stockholders, and this is simply the correct business decision to make. -
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