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207 Comments
- localcelebrity, on 01/23/2009, -7/+95Not that I like Microsoft, cuz I don't, but "Which companies do you think are doing better?" is a stupid question. Microsoft is still raking in more money than all of those companies combined.
- ldog, on 01/23/2009, -2/+75Sun is anti-linux?
So providing Linux users with an Office Suite is a bad thing? Providing a JVM for Linux is a bad thing?
Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols is a little confused. - kevlar21, on 01/23/2009, -11/+74Somebody tell MSNBC!
- erikerikerik, on 01/23/2009, -3/+60In all honesty when you are at the top you can only go 1 place.
And if your at the bottem with a good game plan (as linux for the most part dose) your numbers will only go up. - 3242130193, on 01/23/2009, -22/+57Well when you charge hundreds of dollars for your operating system, in times like this, it's going to come back to bite you. And argue if you will, but wasting so much money on Microsoft licenses is irresponsible spending for any business. In times when you have to buckle down and spend responsibly, you cut the dead weight. Hence, MS fails, RedHat and Novellsoft succeed. The numbers don't lie.
- rocketman42, on 01/23/2009, -6/+33Agreed,
Red Hat profit margin: 13.5%
Microsoft profit margin: 29.78%
Novell profit margin: -0.91%
Somehow, I think Microsoft is still doing ok. - inactive, on 01/23/2009, -12/+35Let me hit on some of your points:
1) Costly maintenance, upkeep (same thing as maintenance), and finding solutions. This is usually solved by training and a little experience. You can't tell me migrating from Win2k Server to Win2k3 Server was clean. You had to attend training and you have maintenance issues when you first implemented. Yet, things work themselves out as your sys admins get a little experience under their belt.
2) Development costs. This depends HIGHLY on what you are developing. Are you a software shop writing Windows apps? If so, why move your desktop to Linux and off the .Net platform? What development was expensive?
3) Easy to maintain. This is arguable on a lot of levels, but let's start with Exchange. While Exchange, once configured, is simple to maintain, the same is true of Sendmail. What about AD? LDAP and Kerberos are easier to setup and maintain, but AD has one stop shopping. As for the smallest details being well thought out, I challenge you to demote an AD machine and keep MSMQ running.
4) You NEVER just jump from platform to platform. Hell, a lot of IT shops are JUST getting to Win2k3 Server, MS SQL 2k5, and getting onto the .Net 2.0 or .Net 3.0 platform. It takes a ton of planning to move the enterprise from one platform (be it the same vendor or not) to another.... - inactive, on 01/23/2009, -7/+27A) Training is never free. If you migrate from Server 2k3 to Server 2k8, you are going to go to training and it's gonna cost (IIRC it was $5k/student for a boot camp). So, what's the difference sending someone to a distro boot camp?
B) "Linux" doesn't have support, the distro provides support. Red Hat does and excellent job and there are a number of consulting firms that will support your environment as well. - stroudma, on 01/23/2009, -10/+27calling BS. no actual company (especially one doing well in these hard times) would be incompetent enough to switch over everything to linux unless they had linux/unix experts in employ ready for the transition.
You actually trusted your company to the internet, researching commands? Even if this is true, it has nothing to do with linux. This would be the same as that idiot girl from wisconsin. Incompetence rearing it's ugly head. Linux is not the same as windows. you do need to learn new commands and new operating system! if you realize this going in, it is not a problem. If you expect it to be the same, only free. then yea, you are in for an ugly suprise
Really, with that kinda of preparation and foresight you would have been out of business sooner, rather then later regardless... if this was real. and thats a real big IF. - ldog, on 01/23/2009, -2/+17In what way is the Apache webserver mediocre?
How about firefox?
Both are superior to their closed source counterparts. - one1plus1one, on 01/23/2009, -24/+39In our company we were using microsoft products, and everything was going well.
Then they brought in someone with a degree in engineering and an MBA. He made the same arguments as you, and converted everything to open source, unix, linux.
It was cheaper on licensing all right... but I can't even begin to tell you how costly it was on maintenance, upkeep, and finding solutions... it was a nightmare. Things conflicted with each other... trying to change settings involved hours of researching cryptic linux commands... we lacked many of the more intricate options we were accustomed to...
Not to mention that maintenance and development costs skyrocketed through the roof.
In comparison to that nightmare, the Windows licensing suddenly seemed cheap. We switched back to Microsoft platforms.
This is not to say that I'm a microsoft fanboy. I love many aspects of linux, ubuntu, and the power of good old fashioned unix commands.
But there's a reason microsoft is making so much money and is in the position they are in -- their stuff is easy to maintain, and many of the smallest details are well thought out. There are features and time saving GUI's...
You have to consider those factors, when you are trying to cut corners and save on licensing in a corporate environment. - ohplease, on 01/23/2009, -6/+20
Being anti-anything in the tech world is an assinine dogma reserved for helpdesk new hires who are thankfully never in the position to make any important decisions.
Technical architects pick the best tool for the job.
Imagine if the new Audi R8 weighed 8000 lbs because the chief designer really likes pewter. - Shadowgamers, on 01/23/2009, -4/+18Here, have some fiscal information.
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=NOVL&annual
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=MSFT&annual
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=RHT&annual
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=JAVA&annual
Microsoft seems fine D:
Novell don't seem to be doing that much better off
And I thought Sun was taking the OSS approach.
Red hat is still DARK AND MYSTERIOUS OOOOOOOOOH-OOOOOOOHH - coffeepoet, on 01/23/2009, -0/+14and VirtualBox
- stroudma, on 01/23/2009, -3/+16many server farms are linux already, i believe.
most computer savy users realize this, but dont shoot me for pointing out the obvious. reading some of the comments makes it clear to me that at least some people here think linux is just an enthusiats tinker toy and has no place in the buisness world, in the real world. - tdmeth, on 01/23/2009, -3/+16Well, you are partially right. Quality, security, and accessibility are Linux strong points. They are also strong points for Windows Server. The problem is that because Windows is familiar, you end up with the neighbor kid thinking he's a sysadmin and he doesn't implement the system correctly, so you end up with problems. Any sysadmin worth his salt will be able to get the same security/quality out of a windows box as he can with a linux one.
Really, it's a matter of finding the right tool for the job. With the types of systems we use at my job, windows server with MSSQL and ColdFusion has a lower TCO than doing the same thing with LAMP or Java/JSP. Our mail server is Ubuntu/Postfix. Some of our sites have a Linux/Apache front end with Windows/CF and MSSQL. Some switch out MSSQL for MySQL. And we do have some LAMP servers as well.
That's where a decent Systems Architect comes in. Their job is to evaluate a problem and find the best combination of technologies to solve that problem at lowest cost. They need to understand the cost/benefits of each system and build it accordingly. If they approach the problem with tunnel vision saying "Opensource ONLY" or "Commercial ONLY" they could end up costing the company a lot of money. They have to understand all the products available and get the best one for that job. - stattek, on 01/23/2009, -2/+15This has to be my favorite anti-linux sentiment: free=communism.
The idea of people with a cold war era mindset commenting on tech stories makes me smile inside. - Toshibi, on 01/23/2009, -2/+14Apple's gains were based on hardware, not software. Sure, the software is part of the over all experience, but at the end of the day Apple's profits are dependant on hardware and brand appeal.
- rcw3, on 01/23/2009, -9/+21Yeah - you're right, Apple's earnings announcement yesterday were disastrous... I like Linux... I like Mac OS X. I like good products. I'll even pay for them if they provide a value. Free != best. The numbers don't lie, but your premise and conclusions ignore a substantial portion of the numbers...
- Sammi84, on 01/23/2009, -2/+13Since when did submitting your own blog posts become an offense?
Seems like the natural thing to do IMHO. - Headake, on 01/23/2009, -12/+22All small businesses should start using Linux. You can save hundreds or may be even thousands.
- Meep3D, on 01/23/2009, -1/+11Ahh KDE, where RC actually means Alpha.
- deathguppie, on 01/23/2009, -15/+25Linux, is Linux. It is not MS, it doesn't have the high power sales force to help push hardware and software developers to support it, and it probably never will. Without those things some woman in Ohio will get a Linux PC and wonder why she can't use her Comcast internet disk, and Her MS office disk won't install.
My GF who is a speech language pathologist, and has almost no computer background is using a linux laptop of her own free will. She still doesn't know how to use a command line, or edit a configuration file but she doesn't have to. It just works.
There are a great deal of MS fanboys and users here on Digg. Most of them will spend days trying to get a windows install to work for them, and then give Linux ten minutes before they give up. I'm not saying that Linux is for everyone, but it isn't even nearly as bad as some people make it out to be. - inactive, on 01/23/2009, -1/+10Almost but it is sustainable..
- tdmeth, on 01/23/2009, -4/+13An OS is a tool. Sometimes Windows is going to be the right tool to fix a problem and sometimes Linux will be. They each have their strong and weak points. The key is to use the right tool for each job. At my job, we use both Windows and Linux servers and workstations. Sometimes, using Linux is cheaper because its free and the software we are trying to use is well documented. Sometimes using Windows is cheaper because the cost of a license is offset by a reduction in developer/IT time or hardware costs (sometimes something just runs better on a windows box). So really, while being too Anti-Linux can be detrimental to your business, so can being too Pro-Linux. Its just a matter of finding the right tool for the job.
- srchid, on 01/23/2009, -1/+10Don't forget Solaris too :)
- iambrucenolan, on 01/23/2009, -2/+11Has Ubuntu turned profitable?
- buckrogers1965, on 01/23/2009, -0/+9Tell that to the 1800 people who lost their jobs today. Some of them were friends of mine.
- inactive, on 01/23/2009, -9/+17"Yes, but the question is why? A superior product???"
Yes - Murdats, on 01/23/2009, -3/+11steak sales down while noodle sales up thus steak < noodles
- ronindigg, on 01/23/2009, -5/+13Exactly
- OrangeTide, on 01/23/2009, -1/+9"Well when you charge hundreds of dollars for your operating system, in times like this, it's going to come back to bite you"
Wait. Are you talking about RedHat Enterprise Linux or Microsoft Windows (or MacOS X Server) ? - Toshibi, on 01/23/2009, -7/+15It sounds to me as though the Engineer with the MBA extolled the benefits of open source without any strategy for implementation. You can't take a Windows shop with Windows trained staff (as in the Technicians who have drilled on where X is in Y program usually with no underlying comprehension of the systems) and drop them into a new system without all new training...This is where TCO comes in. Then again, most of the MCSE's and A+ people that I have worked with didn't live up to their paperwork.
- bradharrelson, on 01/23/2009, -3/+10What an idiot. Buried.
- kevlar21, on 01/23/2009, -6/+13http://digg.com/linux_unix/MSNBC_shows_its_Linux_h ...
- ScottyMcBaggs, on 01/23/2009, -1/+8Mehh, I worked on a team of admins that handled ~2000 Linux desktops world-wide, supported by a 100% Linux server infrastructure. Linux *can* be a solution to MS, but the kind of people who can set up this type of infrastructure are not commonly found on the job marketplace. It involves a special kind of Linux expertise that *most* people don't have. And FYI, telling any end user to type commands is unacceptable, and should be considered a very last resort. That right there goes to show you that whoever implemented this setup had no clue. The way you've described what happened at your workplace leads me to believe that this guy's MBA came out of a cracker jack box, and he probably can't even engineer a proper asswipe. It's unfortunate that incompetent people can damage reputation like this.
- Toshibi, on 01/23/2009, -3/+10Balmer? Is that you?
Open Source doesn't have a "compatible government front end". It's Software. You make some code to meet your own needs, it works well for you, you put it out there and see if it helps out other people, but you don't have to. It's all about you taking ownership of what you have created and choosing how you want to distribute it. In the act of creation you are helping out yourself.
I'm a fairly hard core Libertarian, as in a Capitalist....and I consider open source an absolutely wonderful way of improving capital. - gcauthon, on 01/23/2009, -1/+8It's a common misconception that ordinary employees somehow "know" Windows without any training. They may know how to turn on the computer and go to yahoo/email, but that's not going to help them in a corporate environment. Unless of course, you want to pay them to surf the web and respond to chain letters all day. If that's your goal, then go ahead and skip the training. Otherwise, you're going to have to train employees about the same amount whether you choose Windows or Linux.
- inactive, on 01/23/2009, -2/+9Agreed.
Like the idiots who claim Star Trek's economy is communism - Thyris, on 01/23/2009, -2/+9Red Hat is hardly doing better than ever. They're doing 'alright', and are still down like most companies during this recession. MSFT did lose Gates not too long ago, combined w/ the less than stagering release of Vista, and greater competition from apple, their decline is not suprising.
Oddly the author of this article points out that Sun is dying despite finally embracing linux, which seems to be a counterpoint to the agenda of his article.
This article = fail. - ScottyMcBaggs, on 01/23/2009, -0/+6tdmeth: if you have a lower TCO for windows+mssql+coldfusion than Linux with Tomcat or whatever, then you must not have Linux admins, or your devs don't do Unix... it's a bit misleading to state that your systems are the main factor in TCO- unless I am misunderstanding what you mean by system.
- handheldchimp, on 01/23/2009, -0/+5Their sales are down because their software costs a *****. How much does a copy of linux cost me? Little to nothing. Of course penny-pinchers are going to go with Linux no matter how hard the change from OS is.
- Myztry, on 01/23/2009, -0/+6It's fine to transfer the software in that manner.
The products are legally acquired and fairly according to the laws.
As for the EULA, the terms aren't actually binding until a judge makes an order.
I think you'll find a whole lot of the terms would simply be thrown out as unenforceable.
Don't mistake contract terms with laws. They are not the same.
One is actual, while the other is potential. - DavidTurnbull, on 01/23/2009, -12/+18I have to say, I'm an Apple fanboy but I do want to mess around with Linux.
All my web servers are run on linux, so having a better understanding of them would probably be a good idea. - sigmaman2, on 01/23/2009, -5/+10Wow, we've come a long way from "Nobody was ever fired for picking IBM."
It does make sense though. How can your sales revenue decrease when your product is, essentially, free? - srchid, on 01/23/2009, -8/+13Who will pay for teaching those employees? And if there is a critical problem you need to run to forums?
I agree Even Linux has Support centers, but it ain't coming Free.. - virtualmode, on 01/23/2009, -0/+5You're a great example of a guy who doesn't understand what communism and capitalism are.
Communism is not about things being free. It's about monopoly. Something that has direct impact on what you buy. (Should I say that Microsoft is still a monopoly?)
Capitalism is not about spending money on everything. Capitalism is about choice, capitalism is about competition. Just like open source. And open-source is also mostly about money, because there are many companies (just like Mozilla) who actually get indirect profits. - darkmagician777, on 01/23/2009, -1/+6Well simply put the more user friendly (not necessarily MS like) the more attractive it is. Linux right now is a great replacement with a small footprint for surfing the web and email crap and other things with firefox being so popular. Smarter bundling gives people openoffice included which is totally useful for on the go writing/blogging and any other things you can write up.
Where Linux Still needs work is user friendly DVD playback, burning suite (yes I know Nero does Linux) . How to handle Ipod and mp3 players. Itunes does not run on Linux native and WINE cant handle Ipod. These popular things are some of the major factors in deciding an Operating system.
I think Once you have itunes /comparable stable and user friendly, out of the box dvd playback your gonna have a much broader range of people converting. - RoboDonut, on 01/23/2009, -0/+5I like forks.
- ScottyMcBaggs, on 01/23/2009, -2/+6@rpgmaker: Either you've been misinformed about RH's infrastructure or you're just pulling ***** out of your ass and throwing it at us.
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