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BBC admits massive underestimate of Linux users

pcpro.co.uk — Last month, the BBC's director of BBC Future Media and Technology, Ashley Highfield, told a magazine that just 400-600 Linux users visited the BBC sites every week. Now, Highfield claims on his blog that the figure could be as high as 97,600.

Who dugg this? Made popular Nov 6, 2007

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  • yaazz, on 11/13/2007, -1/+167understandable, they just forgot to carry the 97,000
  • falloutsyndrome, on 11/10/2007, -8/+86I just did a paper on linux, there were an estimated 18 million linux users (world wide) back in 2003. I know that I've converted about 4 people. So maybe 18 mil+4? :]
  • ericof, on 11/10/2007, -6/+74Dear viewers,
    We apologize for the inconvenience. Our IT Department is trying to find out what made the other 97.000 users not showing up on webs server (Microsoft IIS) logs.

    Regards,
    BBC
  • LeeSoong, on 11/10/2007, -12/+69The number is bigger if you count [Linux + Unix + Mac OS X + Firefox users].

    Yes windows is still big, but a lot of consumers have switched to Mac, and
    more businesses are realizing the bottom line value of Linux and Open Source programs.

    Windows VISTA has been the best marketing for Linux ever!
  • chlorinekid, on 11/10/2007, -7/+59400-600 users a month is a ridiculous estimation.. i'm glad they were at least forced to re-evaluate those numbers...
  • oobuntu, on 11/10/2007, -9/+60I'm waiting for the webalizer/awastat page to be published - why not? I'm still betting the real figure is more like 400,000-600,000
  • inactive, on 11/10/2007, -1/+33I installed RealPlayer for Linux to listen to BBC Radio streams once, it felt so dirty. :(
    Open formats please!
  • insllvn, on 11/10/2007, -3/+31Irrespective of the number of Linux users, the BBC should embrace open standards for its content delivery. As I understand it (I am an American, not clear on how BBC operates) the BBC is a state institution, funded in part by taxpayers in GB. Let me know if I misunderstand the situation. If I am correct, using a system that excludes a single taxpaying person is unacceptable. I happen to think that the BBC could save a lot of money with an open source solution. The only barrier (from their point of view ;-) would be if the content is for sale, and piracy is a concern. Is this content for sale? I thought it was freely available, which goes back to it being a public service, and if so no DRM is necessary. Any diggers from across the pond care to educate me?
  • sirhomer, on 11/10/2007, -2/+27It's relevant because the iPlayer only works on Internet Explorer on Windows XP.
  • weeFred, on 11/07/2007, -0/+24Because the BBC were only talking about UK Linux users. The BBC are only meant to care about UK users because we're the ones that have to pay for the BBC.
  • riah, on 11/10/2007, -3/+27I converted about 4 people as well... so maybe it's 18 * 4??
  • int19h, on 11/10/2007, -0/+23It takes time to search with notepad and press F3 until you have counted all instances.
  • Stonekeeper, on 11/10/2007, -0/+21grep? But it doesn't have a button to click! How do you expect them to use grep?
  • weeFred, on 11/10/2007, -5/+25I signed an ipetition about this yesterday, it's obvious hes just pulled those numbers from his anus and I'm glad hes been forced to retract what he said.
  • martyf, on 11/07/2007, -3/+22Well ,here's what I can contribute to this. I have access to the logs of one of our clients, a major consumer-services corporation, with a few million page views a week. I run the stats fairly frequently, and while the "operating systems" metric isn't totally reliable, I can share what I've got, knowing full well that agent spoofing can mess with these figures.

    Now bear in mind that this is a CONSUMER-FACING web site, a very much "mom and pop america" company, so our stats really represent a great view of "ordinary folk"

    So, here's the numbers for the period covering Wed 31 Oct until about noon 6 nov 2007.

    Windows XP 2,162,491
    Media Center 2005 270,848
    Windows Vista 250,393
    Macintosh 138,789
    Windows 2000/NT 5 91,014
    Windows 98 26,502
    Windows ME 17,575
    Windows Server 2003 and XP x64 Edition 11,301
    Media Center 2004 9,180
    Linux 6,392
    Windows NT 4,076
    Macintosh (iPhone) 2,106
    Not Specified 1,247
    Windows 95 563
    SunOS 309
    WebTV 221
    Windows CE 118
    Windows 3.x 90
    FreeBSD 38
    OS/2 22
    HP-UX 13
    AIX 12
    Pocket PC 11
    IRIX 2
    VMS 1
    BeOS 1

    I suspect some folks are goofing with user agent strings - AIX? Really?

    Anyway...there's the numbers. Have at it.

  • fkr3, on 11/08/2007, -11/+29Why would Firefox users be counted as Linux users? Is there anything else you'd like to count as Linux users too? Winamp perhaps?
  • gollo, on 11/07/2007, -0/+18Should you really be browsing websites from your servers?
  • noflashlight, on 11/10/2007, -1/+18activeX was their first mistake
  • knomevol, on 11/07/2007, -2/+17they probably grepped the logs for "-i linux" instead of "ubuntu || fedora || mandrake || gentoo || slackware || etc"

    i just hope they add "bsd" soon. linux makes a fantastic workstation, but give me the industrial strength freebsd for servers and openbsd for perimeter.
  • muep, on 11/07/2007, -1/+15While you are implying that there might be around 200k-300k Linux users as a whole, I disagree. For example, ubuntuforums.org has over 400k registered users, and certainly not everyone who runs Linux is a member.
  • inactive, on 11/10/2007, -0/+13lol @ FreeBSD being outnumbered by Windows 3.x
  • sirhomer, on 11/07/2007, -0/+13Hmmm... maybe they were using Excel?
  • murf43143, on 11/07/2007, -4/+17It isn't hard to see what OS is browsing a site. So why would they cover this up is more like it?
  • missingnoh4x, on 11/10/2007, -2/+14Great to hear that somebody's finally acknowledging our existance. I am Linux user, hear me roar!
  • Floris, on 11/07/2007, -3/+15The numbers do not matter, it's a f* courtesy to not respect your visitors and limit your services to only the monopolists.
  • counterplex, on 11/10/2007, -0/+12You sound like the last time you tried linux was a few years ago :) While the ability to write shell scripts is a useful one, you probably won't need it in any modern workstation-class distribution. As far as printer drivers are concerned, you can find them at: http://www.linux-foundation.org/en/OpenPrinting/Da ...

    Enjoy!
  • bluechips23, on 11/07/2007, -6/+18It's "massive underestimation", not "massive underestimate".

    Unless you wanna say, "MASSIVE UNDERESTIMATE EVARRR!!"
  • loconet, on 11/11/2007, -2/+14REPENT YOU PAGAN! REPENT AND THE MIGHTY PENGUIN SHALL SET YOU FREE! (as in speech)
  • mcmlxxii, on 11/09/2007, -0/+12I know you're messing but for info I think they run apache on solaris
  • Stonekeeper, on 11/07/2007, -1/+12I really hope they do a more linux friendly site. I can hardly play anything on it.
  • sirhomer, on 11/09/2007, -3/+14Because no one gives a ***** about Vista.
  • chris9902, on 11/10/2007, -1/+12oh come on. Of course I was joking. I use Ubuntu. lighten up.
  • AlexFerny, on 11/07/2007, -2/+12Windows handling files? Try to open a dir with 5-10k files in it in explorer ... then watch windows hang :P
  • arjie, on 11/07/2007, -0/+10Indeed! Whatever happened to Dirac? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirac_%28codec%29 . That's a codec right there. I'm certain it's possible to write an open-source player and release it.

    They need not actually support every single OS out there, but they must make it reasonably possible for an Operating System to be supported. Releasing the player as Free Software, and using patent-unencumbered codecs would be all that they needed to do. And that is not impossible. I mean, I can understand that they can't be supporting every single Operating System, but they shouldn't make it hard for other OSes to get it to work.

    And yes, I know that they get another company to do it, but they're still responsible. Matter of fact, why don't they just put up a tracker with the shows on it.
  • knomevol, on 11/10/2007, -3/+13why? because too many diggers are digging from linux and not supporting your shares of stock in MS?
  • mercurysquad, on 11/07/2007, -0/+10BBC getting 400 linux-using visitors a week? My goddamn personal website had 200+ *linux* visitors a week while it existed, let alone windows users, and it was nothing linux specific. Monthly visitors around 3.5 - 4k, mostly referred from google searches about random keywords I happened to have written about. That figure quoted by BBC is just ridiculous.
  • knomevol, on 11/06/2007, -0/+9no, absolutely not, but some people use BSD variants as workstations.
  • PJBovoNox, on 11/07/2007, -2/+11Because users in any country outside of the United Kingdom should have no effect on the BBC's methods. Even if the whole of the US used Linux, it is still us license payers than control it. If 'SA' users were able to influence the BBCs methods I'd be ***** livid.
  • j3one, on 11/10/2007, -3/+12I think more people should use linux at work... install ubuntu/fedora/whatever and dual boot it. Throw compiz fusion and Avant on there and tell them you upgraded to Vista...
  • DangerCollie, on 11/10/2007, -1/+10Don't get your usage statistics from the MS rep. That's all I can figure because I can look at my own site logs and have a pretty good idea of the OS user base. How could anyone doing a regular analysis of their site data come up with that number? It's either incompetence or sheer stupidity.
    And you don't dis the penguin or apple. Their user loyalty and persistence far outweighs their number.
    Somebody needs to spend more time with their family.
  • mdraper, on 11/07/2007, -0/+9I would like to see your source for this information :)
  • amfantasy, on 11/07/2007, -0/+9and second and third
  • gudnbluts, on 11/10/2007, -2/+11"Windows VISTA has been the best marketing for Linux ever"

    Can't argue with that. Vista is the reason I've switched.
  • svivian, on 11/07/2007, -0/+9Not since the BBC started serving ads to non-Brits.
  • krinn, on 11/10/2007, -1/+10Why did you install RealPlayer? Was there something wrong with MPlayer?
  • cannonballtrane, on 11/10/2007, -1/+10Does this seem a bit like a Microsoft style tactic to you? Well, you'll be entirely unsurprised to learn that this Ashley Highfield guy used to work for MS. Source: http://defectivebydesign.org/blog/BBCcorrupted
  • sirhomer, on 11/07/2007, -2/+10Windows is a Fisher Price inspired operating system. It's the Easy Bake Oven(tm) of software. Designed for children who would otherwise get burned using a real operating system, and useful and usable for only a small subset of things.
  • RobotBuddha, on 11/07/2007, -2/+10I think it's due to their decision to go with a video DRM solution for people paying the TV tax within the UK, which only runs on windows, eventually OSX, and never linux.
  • loconet, on 11/07/2007, -1/+9It isn't hard but it's also not hard to make a simple mistake when looking at browser signatures.
  • inactive, on 11/07/2007, -1/+9last time i checked fox news wasn't respected world wide as a news source whereas the bbc is ;)

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