109 Comments
- Killfile, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8Yea yea yea - "But the media only reports bad news!"
A bomb falling on and leveling someone's house is NEWS. It's shocking, interesting, and frightening. That sells ads.
Flowers, kittens, and bunny rabbits don't sell ads - no one cares.
Our media is in the business of selling fear. Fear drives us to consume, and consumption feeds the advertising budgets of the advertisers. It really works out quite nicely.
Even so, lets remember - Iraq is a war zone. There really is a stunning lack of flowers, kittens, and bunny rabbits available in a war zone, and while US troops are doing many very nice things - the fundamental fact of the matter is that the ending of a human life is more newsworthy than the education of an Iraqi child.
I don't seem to remember too many people complaining about negative media coverage of operations in Kosovo. - spectre, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8It's sad that so many are apathetic about the destruction of an innocent family. It makes me wonder how many innocents have to die in one stroke for us to care. 100? 1,000? 100,000?
I hear so many armchair soldiers here parroting the statement that innocent people get killed in war, and that it's not Newsworthy but the question is: are their deaths worth it? What have we accomplished with that miss? How many of these 'misses' happen a week? Is it possible to defeat an army when you don't even know who the troops are?
If another country invaded us, removed the government, put a puppet in its place, and bombed indiscriminately with no fear of reprisal, why wouldn't you become an insurgent? What would you have to lose? If you live in a state of fear, where a fighter jet might try to demolish the house next to yours any minute, corn-fed boys from Iowa are crusing down your street with .50 cal machineguns and could literally kill you for looking at them funny, what would you do?
I see why their population is revolting against our tyranny. We've left them no choice. - catbeller, on 10/12/2007, -4/+11"Iraq is a war zone."
Iraq is not a war zone. Iraq is not at war with the U.S.
Iraq is a country that we invaded under false pretenses. We've occupied it. We've written a constitution for them that post-datedly permits us to keep the industries we -- let's face it -- stole when we arrived. We're building a Pentagon/Embassy over there that costs a billion bucks. We ain't leaving. Chalabi, the con artist that fed Judith Miller at the NYT imaginary "weapons" stories that were parroted back to us by the Prez and his people, is now in charge of the Oil Ministry, where he is robbing the place blind.
Where is the oil money going? No one seems to ask that question. A hundred million dollars a day is going, clap, blow, POOF, every day. Who's getting the money? Could the "news" stop talking about girl singers' sex lives for five minutes and investigate the answer?
Iraq is an occupied country, and the occupiers are under fire and will remain so until they leave. Hell, we'll be under fire AFTER we leave -- we've made ourselves the enemy of all Iraqis. THAT is what is happening. It is not a war. Being shot at and blown up doesn't make you a warrior; it means you are a very unpopular invader. As for all of you asking about the "good news" -- there isn't any. Only on Fox and Limbaugh will you find your fantasies covered. Everywhere else, it's hell on earth.
Not. A. War. An occupation that is not going very well. - alphamerik, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@lefrenzy:
Talking politics is like contemplating one's own navel. And just because someone has an opinion that is different than yours doesn't mean you should call them ignorant. Ever been to war? Not me - I wouldn't participate... but in life, and war, ***** does happen.
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
-Thomas Jefferson
We should not even be in Iraq... just because we got pricked by a rose doesn't mean we should destroy all the daisies (translates to: just because AlQueda attacked us doesn't mean we should go to war with Iraq - for you slow people). The entire country was bamboozled by a president with a personal agenda. - Titan615, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I just have to say this, now this is my first post here on digg, but listening to all the idiots ballywhooing about how the U.S. armed forces are cowards, and that why doesn't the army send in real men to do the fighting instead of robots; I have one thing to say. Why don't you explain to the parents of the dead soldiers that their son/daughter was killed when we could have sent in a cheap and just as effective unmanned weapon?
And to the people saying why could we just use different weapons (A-10 Warthog), 1.) An A-10's weaponry is very similar to whatever they used on the house. Also no one seems to get it that Iraq is pretty well, F*****, because of all the depleted uranium that has been vaporized over there. Veterans from the Iraqi war have the HIGHEST rate of birth defects, cancer etc. compared to veterans of any other war.
I don't know about anyone else here on this page, but I applaud the U.S. armed forces for doing the best they can but I pray to whatever god there is that the war will end. - MikeCampo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"They target the enemy, they target terrorists and the Saddam loyalists who are seeking to kill innocent civilians and disrupt the transition to democracy,"
Ha, well they seem to be doing a fine job protecting the civilians, even though the US has killed tens of thousands of them. And I wonder what would have happened if it was the other way around, where Saddam invaded the US because they had weapons. Don't you think that the US would fight the intruders? But the US just slaps the usual terrorist badge on every person willing to protect their home land from the real terrorists. The fight over there is never going to end, it's the new Palestine and Israel. - liquidedge, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2My favorite quote from this story:
"They target the enemy, they target terrorists and the Saddam loyalists who are seeking to kill innocent civilians and disrupt the transition to democracy," McClellan said.
Ummm...if we hit the wrong house, who's killing innocent civilians again?
----
Saving the world: One drink at a time. http://martini-lounge.blogspot.com - Urusai, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5We all know why we're fighting the war, the President told us all about the WMDs and how Saddam Hussein was funding Al-Qaeda. What, don't you trust the President?
- WarPirate, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4To bad CNN doesn't have a bury and dig option that way the public can show them what they want to hear and tell them to shove the rest of their propaganda right up their asses
- Pxtl, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@DefenderOrights
You're absolutely right - war involves killing people, and trying to run a clean war is doomed to failure (although you should try, regardless). Which is exactly why I was against this from the start - I mean, if Bush had went up there and said "I want to go and kill tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis based on this really, really important hunch" he would've been laughed out of office or lynched - or both. - aa3000, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Propaganda for the war.
Propaganda against the war.
Its all propaganda. None of us know the facts. Journalists do not know the facts. People on Digg do not know the facts. Only Bush and his administration know why the U.S. is fighting this war. - waiwai, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I'm amazed this even got in the news. For slightly more important targets they've even used artillery when no planes were available (artillery tends to miss, get corrected closer by ovservors, repeat with huge ass 155mm shells at that).
- XStatic, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Not such a good idea to be dropping bombs in a civilian area, even if you think the bombs are smart enough to get the right house, the consequence of missing are too severe.
Keep the unmanned drone watching the house until ground forces can get there... - arap, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2It's just so tragic that innocent people are being killed. There are no words.
- aa3000, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"The bomb, which was dropped by a U.S. fighter plane"
a second "unmanned surveillance plane watched from overhead" - DrDigg, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Unmanned planes do have pilots, they are just not in the plane. They are in Vegas!
http://www.klastv.com/Global/story.asp?S=2997009 - adml_shake, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3I agree with lenwood, while I do want to hear about stuff like this i'm sick of the news agencies only reporting the bad cap to ride the current wave anti bush feelings..
- TheDecn, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"This war, and the technology just shows how scared the US Military is. Let's just fly robotic planes and drop robotic bombs like we're playing a video game. Oops! We missed one - we better drop another. Oops! We hit a civilian house - we better drop another! This is besides the fact that we all kno there is no (humane) reason for the US to be at war anyway. This is about empire building - go USA!"
As an active member of the military, I can assure you that the men & women of this organization are not "scared". There are plenty of wacko's out there who sign up for the Army hoping to see combat and get the chance to kill people, and believe it or not there are wacko's over there who are disappointed that they don't get a chance to shoot. Using precision-guided bombs and unmanned areial vehicles is not a result of protecting a "scared" military, it is a practice mandadted by the Amercian public. Any significant amount of casualties is not tolerated by the public (as we can see demonstrated in this current conflict). Losing public support by risking even moderate casualties is losing the war. But then again, you could argue if a war was truly worth fighting, the public would not flinch at casualties (look at WWI and WWII).
Personally, my critera as a public official would be, if I am willing to lose my own sons and daughters to this war then it is a war worth fighting. - LeFrenzy, on 10/12/2007, -5/+6
“We don’t do body counts”
General Tommy Franks, US Central Command
Civilians reported killed by military intervention in Iraq
MIN 27736
MAX 31263
http://www.iraqbodycount.org/
Attention cawpin-
Only 65 feet miss? Go tell that to the family of the dead ones.
The problem with today's culture is that they discuss terrorism when not themselves being affected by it.
I wonder how you would feel if it was your house hit instead of the bad guys.
The "***** happens" philosophy is simply *****. If you "shrug" this, you simply are yet another typical ignorant soul living on this planet.
Sheesh I really need a real DIGG version politics up. Talking politics with people like you is getting annoying. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1> The chain reaction of evil--wars producing more wars -- must be broken, or we shall be
> plunged into the dark abyss of annihilation.
>
>~Martin Luther King, Jr.
Niccolo Machiavelli and a dream too and if he were alive today it would probably consists of blowing up your house with a 1000lb bomb and while you lie on the ground bleeding out, the last images that race across your visual cortex are that of your children running around screaming with napalm on their backs and white phosphorus in their gut; and then, after "democracy" has been established, using cheap, efficient Indian labor to extract every last natural resource from what can only loosely be described as your "inhabitable lands".
Folks, in affairs of the state, the wiggle room between military credibility and the worst imaginable thing that you CAN'T get away with is known as reality. The best you can hope for in life is to never be immersed in that reality. To a degree, the job of a free press is to raise the bar of "what you CAN'T get away with" high enough that this Machiavellian reality is, at a minimum, held at arms length and, at best, is something never openly practiced by your state. ...and right now, we're living very close to the "held at arms length" side of the continuum. - joeyjojo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"Second, its crap that the media is making such a big deal of this. You never hear about the thankful Iraqis or the schools that we build. I'm sorry that this family was lost, but I'm tired of the media sending only the the bad news"
Well, ya know, it's a WAR. Wars aren't good news. Ever. - aa3000, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"lenwood, thank YOU for noticing and caring.
US Navy, 11yrs.
"
Hey, no one has any problems with military personal. Its those in charge putting military personal in danger for a war that may not have a real purpose, that many have a problem with. - LunchB0x, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1This is a shame, but what do we care right some iracki family got nuked right? Thats what they get for being an imminet threat right? Go America! *waves flag* I need to get back to watching Fox News Now. they are naming a new High School that Haliburton is building after the family that got exploded.. Man we are so thoughtful..
- joeyjojo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"Read the pre-war documents that explained Saddams ruling and why if he just let the inspectors to do their jobs maybe a war could have been avoided."
He had. And do their job at what? Finding nothing?
Saddam was evil. No doubt about that. He was also funded by the US. We had a beef with Saddam. Not Iraq. But we destroyed Iraq, rather than just Saddam and his regime. - Metman, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Oh and I agree with a few other posters.
WHERE THE ***** WERE YOU PEOPLE WHEN WE WERE IN YUGOSLAVIA OR HUNGRY OR BOSNIA (this list could go on for days!) ?
You are all concerned NOW about human life and 'Justice'.
Tell me then what OTHER countries are committing GENOCIDE right NOW as we type and talk about this ***** from our warm cozy homes/jobs. They are out there.. and not a one of you is so much as even bringing it up. Thats different you say? Yeah it doesnt meet any political or idealogical agenda for you. Bunch of two-faced, arm-chair protestors who only protest when its 'cool' to do so. (or worse cause you lost in an election that was JUST AS FAIR as every OTHER election we ever had - then cry foul? You were crying foul when Clinton won or lied.. or BOMBED THE LIVING ***** OUT OF IRAQ!)
Get off your NO IRAQ WAR stances and look at the rest of the world THEN come to me about how unfair and unjust we are being to the people of Iraq. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0mesohorny: what do you think about Rumsfeld's pre-Gulf War cozy relationship with Saddam?
Oh, but it's humanitarian, right? Yeah, ***** sorry. Forgot about the whole 'justice and democracy' pretense. - mesohorny, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0@ToeCheese
Did you live in Iraq? He didn't have control? Did you ever read the UN commission papers on Saddam's control?
Just because you don't support the freeing of Iraq, don't fool yourself in thinking that Iraq was an open and free society before the war.
Read the pre-war documents that explained Saddams ruling and why if he just let the inspectors to do their jobs maybe a war could have been avoided. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0> 1- re-take Govt Civics
Civics class is taught in high school
> Machiavelli
Machiavelli is taught at ivy league universities.
Civics class pupils fight wars; students of Machiavelli start wars. It's that simple. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Notice how loosing your entire family is a "Minor injury". Sick.
- csufjno, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Oh well.. ***** happens. Maybe the neighbors might start turning in these bombers.
- TimmyK., on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Well at least we can live comfortable in the knowledge that, as non-Christians, those six Iraqis were sinners who are now burning in hell. That is if you buy into the same insane superstitious ***** that our "president" does.
- Brutusfly, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Your children's tax dollars at work.
- stuartbryant, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0In regards to civilian deaths I'd be interested in seeing a record of:
1) how many of these "civilians" were hostile towards US forces
2) how many of the civilians were killed by other civilians/terrorists - reubix, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Newspeak word of this decade, collateral casualties.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0> Yet we defend Isreal and its right to squat on stolen land because of our
> 60 year old committment and religous obligations.
Uh, you forgot the part about Isreal being smarter than the US in matters of foreign policy. - Metman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0My apologies to those who are offended by my language or even my politcal views.
Before you move on and dismiss these posts, even if you strongly agree or disagree -
Go learn about the history of the region dubbed the Middle East. Not only is it more interesting then any war movie/novel ever written but it also explains why we feel so strongly about our cultures, our religons and our relationships with each other. The region was the birthplace of mankind and every society created thereof. The region has been at war since man discovered he could kill another man and ironically it has almost always been due to some form of religon.
No man wants war - I think we would all prefer peace. Dispite the fact that it is human nature to seek turmoil for one reason or another. Yet we will never attain peace if we do not fully understand why we wage war. - aa3000, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0@ Pentarix
"Its all propaganda. None of us know the facts. Journalists do not know the facts. People on Digg do not know the facts. Only Bush and his administration know why the U.S. is fighting this war."
- And in your mind, that somehow makes it ok? I know why they are fighting, if you don't then it makes me worry even more about the future of the U.S.
Look. I guess you did not understand my comment. It was a neutral position to stop all the people thinking they know the facts. Personally, I do not think we should be in this war. I do not think Bush should be our president. I do not think Terrorists should be killing people. I do not think Bush did everything to prevent 9/11. I do not think Bush handled himself well after 9/11, including how he protected the Bin Laden family. I do think Bush has scared the whole country in thinking they are next for a terrorist attack, which makes them trust Bush more. I hate the fact that bush is an evangelist that thinks anyone that is not a Christian is a sinner and going to hell. I could go on for ever.
Read between the lines next time you criticize one of my comments. - Metman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Wow - Alot of you people need to
1- re-take Govt Civics
2- Stop bending the facts to suit your argument
3- Get ALL the facts
catbeller - Wrong - It IS a war and despite the speech given by Bush AFTER the votes to go to war were considered counted (unofficial). We DECLARED war on Iraq. After 12 U.N. Resolutions were IGNORED by Iraq and all the while the US warning that continued non-compliance with the UNITED NATIONS resolutions would result in US intervention. This was ALSO stated multiple times during the same speech that everyone says was about WMDs. Information that was given to the NSA by the Senate Committee on National Security (head by none other then John 'I almost voted no to war' Kerry). Dont take my word for it go read the Congressional Record
Everyone is convinced that there were no WMDs. I am not convinced they were not there. Saddam had 1564 days from the first instance of the US threatening to enforce the UN Resolutions by use of force, to get any WMDs (or other materials such as cash caches and gold) to its neighbor Syria (who openly offered exile to any Iraq or sympathizers refuge in the event of war - that is until war actually broke out). It has been confirmed by multiple sources that caravans of semi trailers crossed the borders into Jordan and Syria for weeks prior to the invasion of Iraq. So everyone wants to believe that they never existed and it was an excuse - well in this country we found our judicial system on a thing called reasonable doubt. They may or may not have been there.
ToeCheese - Yes Iraq was in fact one of the wealthiest countries in the world. However, 99% of the wealth resided within 300 sq miles (around the capital). The average citizen was poorer then those in countries with FAR worse economic conditions. So yes, the schools WERE needed. As for the article you sited. Reread it - only this time pay attention to the terms used. THEN take the time to trace the sources of that information. Iraq had 2 'schools' that would qualify as continued learning (university or college for us) which gave them the 5% (in addition to the 57 other traditional 'schools' of their educational budget. Further investigation will yield that the figures quoted are 'speculative'. Do not preach to me about reading propoganda then link me some ***** that can only be partially confirmed AND have questionable sources at best. Oh and its of little consquence - Iraq had the highest fatality rate among school aged individuals for countries of its class/social structure. A large number of them 'presumed dead' after being arrested by 'unidentified' crimes. Sounds like a nice place -perhaps you should go visit.
Furthermore - GO READ THE CONGRESSIONAL RECORD and tell me again how many of reasons stated are 'untrue'. Good grief - you are so hypocritical. Look at where you are getting YOUR news! Did Iraq have terrorist training camps - YES and even video tapes found AT THEM showing how to do friendly tasks such as make/place roadside bombs - car bombs and the ever popular suicide vest (even goes into detail of how to angle the blast on dentonating). Did Iraq has weapons of mass destruction? Probably at some point yes. When we invaded? Probably not. Did Iraq ignore 12 UN resolutions which was the FIRST reason that was given for going to war? If you do not know the answer to that question you should just stop talking about the topic period. Hell 2 outta 3 aint bad!
milkcow - Uhm.. Religon has killed more people then it can ever claim to have saved. Furhtermore - If you boil nearly every war in recorded history down you will find that religon is at the core of 99% of them in one way or another. That would include the War on Terror which is in response to 3000 Americans dying do to the choices made by military leaders in the late 1940s after WWII. We took the land from the Palestines and gave it to the Jews - and THAT is why we are targets of the Islamic fundamentalists. Nevermind that every country that was in the Allied Coalition had a hand in that decision. Beyond that - they are killing the SONS AND DAUGHTERS of the people who may or may not have made that decision. That is about as stupid as a black person killing a white person because his great grandfather was a slaveowner.
No I am NOT a big Bush fan. No I do NOT think that Iraq was the largest threat to the US. No I would NOT have voted to go to 'war' with Iraq (even the time). Yes I am glad Saddam is no longer in power.
Love your country? Then love your countrymen. - mesohorny, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Again clueless @ToeCheese
I said exactly that, UN built schools not Iraq($adaam). But that doesn't mean the ones WE built were any less needed. See your trying to spin any thing done by the USA is bad, and anything done outside is great, just to make a point. Your sick in the head to think the USA doesn't help. Hey I have a good idea let's just put $adaam back into power, I am sure that would be awesome. - matt.rubin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0consitering the f-14 was probably goin little higher that mach 1 65ft isn't that far off...................
- matt.rubin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0oh then on top of that the stupid liberal want to stop weapon advancing?!?!?!? look 65 ft determines 6 lives or deaths. It just needs to be perfected more
- Metman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Jesus..
@M.Moore Fan (aa3000) -
Bush wasnt the only one involved in this *****! This ALL goes back to pre-Jimmy Carter. Bush just happened to be the one in office.
Do you think we considered WAR with them ONLY under Bush? Furthermore, CONGRESS DECLARES WAR! Not the president or anyone else ONLY CONGRESS. So start axing your congressmen and women (but you wont cause you all want to blame Bush - ***** the real criminals).
Bush was in office HOW ***** LONG before 9/11? Okay then so WHO would be most poised to stop 9/11? Clinton? .. Oh yeah, he had Bin Laden in his targets on 3 seperate occassions and didnt pull the trigger. In retrospect, he would have for sure now, but not at the time (pre-9/11) in fears of killing innocent people near Bin Laden.
As for "I hate the fact that bush is an evangelist that thinks anyone that is not a Christian is a sinner and going to hell." What the ***** are you talking about? Never ONCE have I seen or read a speech in DIRECT CONTEXT that says anything even remotely close to this statement. Moreover, the fanatics we are at WAR with feel the same way only they want to be the ones to send us to hell.
You could go on forever...
Well before you do PLEASE GET THE FACTS! OR AT LEAST HAVE A ***** CLUE AS TO WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT! - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0> It's sad that so many are apathetic about the destruction of an innocent family.
Apathy is a two way street. One lane of the apathy street says "who cares if we put the messed up son of a one term president who ran an war for oil into the Whitehouse... after all, he's just a politican" and then there's the other lane running in the opposite direction that says "hey, you know, I'm at the 12 year mark and I *thought* I was going to make a carrer out of this, but now I realize that I can get out, draw unemployment for 24 months and then go back to school for 4 years to "retrain" to do what the fsck I want to do (instead of doing what I'm told to do for another 8 years) and I'll be better off for it becasue by the time I would have retired, my pension would have been cut to 40% of my active duty pay."
> However, the bomb only missed by 65 FEET.
Ah, yes, just about the length of a double-wide trailer home. - mutant, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I declare Bush on WAR!!
- lenwood, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Here's my beef with this type of coverage, it leads to people second guessing our troops.
You've read about insurgents in the news, those are CIVILIANS organizing against us. The Iraqis that have been oppressed for decades appreciate our presence and want their freedom. Its the remnants of Saddam's cronies that are fighting us.
No one wants for civilians to get caught up in this, soldiers least of all. But the majority of the soldiers we're facing are masquerading as civilians with the intent of catching our troops off guard. Talk to anyone who's served over there.
If you want us out of Iraq, write your congressman, protest at your state capital, petition Bush in your blog, but don't send a mountain of bad news home. And don't for a second presume for a second that you would have made a better decision in battle. - ToeCheese, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0@mesohorny"
How could America be the bad ones in changing a country that was NOT FREE to one that IS FREE?"
Free from what? Freeing their souls from their bodies? If America was that concern about repress citizens in this world... Why not Saudi Arabia? He would have also taken out funding for terrorism. (Research Telethon for Suicide Bomber on Saudi State runned television) but instead Bush walked Hand in Hand with the Prince.
Saddam didn't have full control of his own country. - ToeCheese, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0@mesohorny
You need to really research what you are talking about and forget about FOX News.
Schools were badly needed after the invasion in 2003.
http://www.worldpress.org/Mideast/1864.cfm - ToeCheese, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0@mesohorny
Read the testimonies from the inspectors (which were held back until the invasion started). The Iraqi did try to hide some weapons but they were found and destroyed in the 90's. The US pulled out the inspectors when they realized that the UN were not going to side with the US.
When Iraq provide 1000's of pages of documentation of destroyed weapons cache the US came back in less than 24 hours stating that they have PROOF (which never surfaced) that Iraq still had other weapons. The proof was that they had sold some toxic weapons to Saddam but all had a 10 year shelf life. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0> The revolt isn't as popular as you've been told.
Well, hell yeah... dying just ain't popular; oddly, the roadside bombs continue. - ToeCheese, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0@lenwood
The problem is that this war didn't need to be fought. Bush Sr. stated that it wasn't possible to win. Clinton funded Saddam's enemies in hope to overthrow him.
You guys should research everything you hear from the Major TV and Print News Outlet. Check out the smaller guys and from all around the world. That is what is great about the internet you can get this information instead of disinformation. -
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