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- thallwyn, on 10/12/2007, -6/+41This article ignores the advantages of a Vista-era PC-based HTPC like the ability to tune multiple digital cable signals. PCs are also superior to multi-thousand dollar DVD players in regards to upscaling abilities. For the high end home theater niche, cable boxes pale in comparison in regards to audio and video quality. Furthermore, MC's ability to burn audio/video/pictures is something a PVR just doesn't do. Also, multi-core CPUs allow for multiple HD streams out around the house. Combine that with large amounts of internal storage and a high powered GPU for gaming, and not only is the value there, but the comparison just gets weaker. XBOX 360 extenders compliment this technology very well, and I use one at home connected to my Vista desktop, but the component video quality pales in comparison to an HDMI connected HTPC. I also suggest you guys revisit the usability of Media Center's GUI vs a cable box. It's easier to find programs, and more information is available on programming.
- meshman, on 10/12/2007, -1/+36"Users could install expensive HDTV tuner cards, but the massive storage requirements HD demands would quickly clog even the largest of hard drives."
What piece of magic pixie hardware does a PVR have that solves this problem? - zenerdiode, on 10/12/2007, -0/+17I won't give up my HTPC because no single box out there has yet to allow me to;
1) Store 100+ ripped favorite DVD's locally so my lazy butt doesn't have to go digging for that disk of Nacho Libre when I just want to see one scene. BTW, I'm one of those that DOES NOT like to display my entire collection of DVD's on some bookshelf or wall.
2) Record a full season many TV shows in HD...without worrying about which show to delete in order to have room to record the next episode. The beauty of HTPC is the expandability and flexibility. I can easily add more hard drives or offload to external hard drives at any time. No so with the Comcast box.
3) Superior upscaling of DVDs using ffdshow. I personally think it's better than any upscaling DVD players out there.
4) cheap HD-DVD playback with the Xbox360 drive. Sure my 360 is much cheaper and plays the HD-DVD as well...but then it ain't no DVR.
5) You-tube and Digg browsing!!!
6) Internet streaming with Orb.
The HTPC is far from dying...it's just the beginning to live up to its potential. Add up the costs of all the individual boxes that can perform the function of the HTPC and you'll find you're not saving all that much. Even then, you'll likely be short on some functions. - Y0tsuya, on 10/12/2007, -0/+16The author is talking out of his ass on this one. First he says regular HTPCs don't have enough capacity, even though 500GB drives can be had for $150. But somehow the new 80/160GB PVRs don't have the problem. So in his universe, PVR+80GB > HTPC+500GB. Things get even more lopsided when the HTPC owner RAIDs his drives.
- palmer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+16There should be no issue at all today with recording HD, right off cable, with no recompression. The only reason that there is is that HBO and others have been allowed to disallow recording with 5C encryption. You can record many things right from the Firewire port on Motorola cable boxes using Virtual D-VHS and its Windows equivalent (can't remember its name), but not the stuff you PAID EXTRA to see.
This is also totally inaccurate:
"but the massive storage requirements HD demands would quickly clog even the largest of hard drives."
Ridiculous. Broadcast "HD" is only 19 megabits per second AT MOST. That's 20 percent less than what you get from an SD MiniDV tape! Less than 3MB per second. Less than 11 GB per hour. With 400-gig drives selling for what, $100, what's the problem?
All the quality and usability problems we have with media today each result from just one cause:
usability: the continual efforts to rip off the consumer with so-called DRM
quality: compression, which renders useless all the high-quality equipment you care to buy - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+16I love my HTPC but holy ***** that article was boring.
- knyghtryda, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11the HTPC for the savvy user will always be better than anything premade and store bought. You can have any format you want, played on any device you want, and transferred to whatever other device you want. Granted, much of this involves hacks and some less than legal methods, but for media interoperability, sometimes you just gotta go Robin Hood on the industry. The only thing now missing from the HTPC are encrypted HD channels, but hey, I'll pay for a cablecard for that.
- thallwyn, on 10/12/2007, -5/+15Yes you can with digital cable tuners. All pros and cons of CableCARDs are available with Vista.
- krinthekuz, on 09/16/2008, -0/+9100 GB doesn't mean ***** anymore anyways. if you're buying less than 500 gb drives, you're using it for specific deployment or you're a moron. just look at hd prices:
http://www.pricewatch.com/hard_drives/
and what dumbass rips mp3s in 128kbps? 192 kbps rips are quite excellent. sure, educated ears can tell the difference, but the vast majority can't even tell on high end systems. even some radio stations use 192 kbps over air. - Jiffylush, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10The only realy problem with HTPCs is the lack of ability to decode encrypted digital cable. (cablecard will fix, but when will we be able to buy it?)
I went from an HTPC to a TiVo Series 3 (upgraded to 750gb) and haven't looked back. HTPC now lives in our bedroom. - Y0tsuya, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9I suspect for most people, VBR mp3 would sound "good enough", and possibly could not distinguish it from uncompressed audio in a double-blind test. Those who claim to notice significant differences tend to be the same people who pay $50 for a gold-plated digital coax or toslink cable.
- SoxFanNH, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8I like my build-your-own HTPC, lets me do more with my computer and no reason to waste money on a Tivo... Ill grab a HD card and Beyond TV and get the same for a hell of a lot less than the HD Tivo...
- Uranium118, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6I have my PC plugged to my HDTV. All I need is an internet connection and many many hard drives. Oh wait, I already have all that. Let's download a few HD movies and tonight's 24 and Heroes episodes.
- Pelapp, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8@proam500 -> You're loving the 360 in the wrong forum. Thallwyn said a well built HTPC, not a cheap prebuilt PC.... Most htpc enthusiast could build a near silent HDTV streaming device, that would outperform the 360 in every department (except games of course).
- dirtkahuna, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6The author doesn't know his topic. I took an old 1Ghz Athalon system and added a Hauppage std. def. tuner card, an AverMedia HD card, SnapStream BeyondTV (with a free FireFly remote), and a new video card with DVI output for about $400. Right away I had a very cheap hi-def HTPC that didn't have ANY monthly charges. It works like a charm for recording off-the-air broadcasts.
- thallwyn, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7I've got several in my labs right now with a large order being shipped to us right now. We've taken orders and they should be kicked out the door within 3 weeks.
- k3nt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5honestly, the author speaks about the poor usability of HTPCs... guess this article was written before MythTV was around. *rolls eyes*
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Now if this could only play my favorite 1080p x.264 content, and then a .mkv file, maybe a quicktime .mov file, and some obscure .smf. Not to mention all my audio. Plus add a could of Terabytes of storage, yeah I know NAS, but it won't work until a solid 802.11n standard(I have a Netgear RangeMa 240 and it's not doin' it.) Not to mention Blu-Ray and the HD format. Try pushing true HD across any wireless standard, even the draft or fake stuff.
So I'm stuck with my ugly PC right next to my 1080i - 61 inch projection screen (not a true 1080p LCD or Plasma).
But the ***** looks good. with a simple 7300GT Nvidia card, an Amd X2 - 4200 and 1 gig of ram, I have a video server that will kick ass for quite a while.
Hell, if you don't need true 1080i and 1080p, you can really get by with a 1 Ghz box, 384 meg of RAM and a ATI 8600 Radeon video card. It. Plus if your know Linux, this will really smoke for you.
Just my thoughts... - diggduggjoe, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5I still plug along with my hacked version 1 Tivo. It does everything I need until they work out what the next thing will be. I have a PC with a Haaupauge 350 and use in in Windows. It's okay but the Tivo is smoother in the UI.
I hate imagining how cool the video world would be without DRM. Live Ethernet connections, firewire and USB allowing every thing to work together. Buy or make a PVR that uses USB to control the cable box while downloading content off the Internet. Having the choice to archive media files would be nice, too.
DRM will be bad for the industry. I wonder how audio would be, if DRM was used in the sixties onward. RCA cables would be banned or disabled by default, components would have to be all from one vendor or they would never interconnect and your tape collections would self delete after 30 days. - muddo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4People have been using pc's as their media playback devices since mplayer became stable back in 2001. Is this article relevant toady because microsoft has finally caught up by releasing the media center? I mean media center is kind of cool, but the technology has been in widespread use for years and isn't going anywhere.
Why is this article relevant? - kevyn, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I also think the price tag is unfair ($800-$2000 for a HTPC)
I got:
HTPC case (antec fusion) for £112
1gb RAM - £50
motherboard with componant out -£56
processor (athlon 3200) -£60
300gb HD - £65
TV card - £45
Media portal sofrware - free open source
MCE remote - £30
= £418 ($814) - the only way I can see you notching up $2000 would be to add lots and lots of HDD's, or get top notch motherboards and processors and RAM, when you really don't need them to run MCE or media portal.
I think for a lot of people its overkill when pricing up a HTPC - Pelapp, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Sorry, but you're clueless. You obviously never built a pc let alone a htpc, 'cause then you'd know how cheap and relatively simple a sub-25dB htpc can be built.
- thallwyn, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6There isn't any. You can record 13 hours per 100GB of storage when it comes to HD. It's 40GB per 100GB for SD. In a world of multi-terrabyte HTPCs, this is a non-issue. That doesn't even take into account 3rd party compression applications like what AMD Live! has to offer.
- themuffinman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4The Scientific Atlanta box they refer to has quite possibly the worst interface ever developed by anybody. Actually, the whole unit is pretty ***** overall. I have two, because I can't get anything else that will record hd for less than 800 dollars.
- wirelesshnic, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I am running Mythtv for my scheduled shows and basic DVR features and I also have a geexbox front end and tvrss/democracy player back end. Its all free software and was all put togeather for alittle of nothing. These devices are nothing in comparison the options I currently have avaible.
- xevidentx, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I'm going to have to disagree with this article 100%. How can they say that HTPC's are gonna get killed? There are other ways of getting HD content onto your HTPC besides over cable. Furthermore, some set top boxes allow you to record via firewire (the Motorola as someone above me mentioned). In addition, apps like Windows XP MCE and vista MCE im sure provide a much sleeker interface than that of set top boxes w/ much more versatility. And for most, a ~$500 HTPC will be able to render HD playback and do many things smoothly.
- stalky14, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Agreed. I'm going to be returning the Scientific Atlanta box to Cox in the next few weeks. Check this:
- No ability to start playing an in-progress recording from the beginning without visibly rewinding it and then it still will drop me
out to live when then recording is over, despite the fact that I'm still in the middle of watching.
- No 30-second skip.
- No ability to remove undesired channels from the guide listing.
- Confusing "A","B","C" context-sensitive function buttons on the remote, making programming a universal remote difficult.
- The above making me need to read and bounce through multiple menu pages to do something as simple as delete a recording.
- DVR playback CHANNEL? WTF?
- The butt-ugliest UI on any cable box, ever.
- They charge me $10 a month for the privilege of using their DVR "service".
- And many more!
I'm going solely to my HTPC and analog cable. I don't watch the digital stuff enough to justify the $25 premium I'm paying for it.
I'll be using BeyondTV or GB-PVR, both of which I've had much success with. For the record, I've tried installing multiple
incarnations of Myth over the years, but it never gets the configuration right on my (pretty standard) Athlon-XP 2000, Nvidia FX5200, Hauppauge PVR-150 box and after about 2-3 hours of wading waist-deep through linux configuration files trying to stitch things together by hand, I say "***** it", and go back to XP. - zenerdiode, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4all you ever wanted to know about ffdshow and more
not for the faint of heart, technical ILLITERATI, or mac user --it's not OSX compatible...plus Mac users like simplicity, right :D
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=719041 - kevyn, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3can you plug your ipod into a STB and sync all your music and CD's easily...? no.
and for most people, I imagine that the HTPC is where they store their music collections, and these people probably own an ipod, and will want to sync the two.
at least thats what I do at home. - manageMyRights, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3If my PVR could download HD porn I wouldn't have any space left on it either.
- pmichaelson, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4I have the Scientific Atlanta 8000 Explorer box (courtesy TWC), and a Media Center PC hooked up to my cable box. The primary reason is streaming. I use Orb, a free media-streaming software that allows me to share my TV and other media over the internet. With my PPC phone, I can watch cable TV on my phone. With Slingbox (outrageously over-priced, IMO) and other solutions like this becoming available, I think that media PCs are just beginning to see the sun rise. I know it kicks ass to be able to tune in my home cable service when sitting at work or while visiting my parents (who are against anything more than rabbit ears).
- howski, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2yeah, look at the Antec Fusion (or the cheaper NSK2400) for mATX and, well, something bigger and overpriced for ATX :)
I'm using an Antec Overture (w/ some fan mods I made myself that Antec themselves employed in the Overture II) with a full ATX board right now, but I hope to upgrade to mATX and a Fusion soon.
and for the record, MythTV on Gentoo, XP2400+, couple Hauppauge cards and a 200GB drive. All standard def right now because I am poor. - radio1mike, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2dirtkahuna is right.
The $800 you'd spend on TivoHD (not knocking Tivo at all), a hobbyist could build a Linux or Windows based SD/HD DVR setup; with a kickin HTPC case. Plus, it would be computer, also.
Right now, I've got GB-PVR, Beyond TV on my Windows machine a Hauppauge-150 netwoked to my modded X-Box (XBMC) on my CRT HDTV. Perhaps, you think my setup is ancient and I'd agree. But I don't need recorded HD content right, so SD is just fine. The SD content I do have is upconverted to 720p by XBMC, so it looks okay.
I wish I had about a grand through away to make cheap and reliable HD-PVR. Or I'd buy a TivoHD and hack the hell out of it. - Pelapp, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2You know they make HTPC cases for both full ATX and mATX MB's right ? :)
I'll bet you could find one, that would complement your TV quite nicely... - SoxFanNH, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3Well looks like cablecard will only be with premade systems, no retail sales so screw that. Once again DRM ruins a promising product.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2What OS do you use?
Care to splurge more on how you upscale DVDs using ffdshow?
Very curious. - masgrada, on 10/12/2007, -6/+7At least you're not watching that HD on the intertubes, then you'll really see some pipes clogging. Thank god we're not running the dump trucks anymore.
- thallwyn, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4I'm not in sales and our HTPCs have not shipped yet, so I think you may be confused. With a join date of today I'm curious as to the nature of your intentions in your post.
- SoxFanNH, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Totally agree, I am still wondering whether to invest in HD cards for clear QAM or wait for a computer CableCard.
- anarchy99, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1anyone know how to hack the tivo to have no subscription or to bypass paying for it
if so my htpc goes out the window - zbeast, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1The HTPC is simply the best way to display all the media types that are out there.
These stupid bridge devices will never be able to evolve fast enough to ever all of the content that you can download.
Ive tested a lot of them and found all of these bridge devices hard to use and simply wanting in features.
If you need a new function on a HTPC you download the software and you done.
Try that with these "bridge" devices. If its not for technical reason it's going to be for licensing reasons that you favorite
video or audio file wont play. One of the best hacks for the xbox 1 was the xbmc.
Taking what was effectively a cheap pc, the xbox and turning it into a great media center pc.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XBMC I would like to see a product like this from dell. - BobMysterioso, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1For a simple test in audio quality of mp3 you just need to exploit the mp3 itself.
Will Korn or some Slayer or electro or techno do it? Not likely. But a female voice, on the mid to higher range, moderately loud and the focal point of the song will. Her voice will distort and become very electronic. Try some Tori Amos (don't all diggers have that complete Tori torrent?) I can tell everytime, on a good set of speakers (and nearly all headphones) the difference between 128 and 192. 160 vs 192 is pretty hard tho.
If space is so cheap, why not just rip to 192 min and 256 for stuff you care about. - zbeast, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1The only way that these "stand alone devices" can kill HTPC's is if they
1) have no drm
2) support all of the image, video standards and audio types..
The Apple TV is a no winner as it only plays quicktime.
I'm not going to sit around and try to convert my 6tb's of videos to Quicktime.
I'm no just picking on Apple. I have to say windows media center sucks too.
It's all about drm and using the horrible windows media player.
I just use VLC and I can play anything from vob dvd rips, xvid, and divx and what ever else comes down the pipe.
I can even play video games on the system. Some thing you can't do with these sealed box solutions.
Ya, the xbox 360, PS3 and even the Wii want to get in the game of letting you download games and movies.
But far as I'm concerned it fine for them to be a game system but as the way I'm watching video I really don't want to have my
content locked up in these systems. If I buy content it I want to be able to use it. Not just have it lock away in a digital prison.
Or worse yet having these digital devices telling me what I can and can't play in my own living room. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Got my parents onto MythTV.
Previously they where using XBMC to play files off the server, but MythTV does that with MythVideo (not quite as good but ok), plus it does the TV (theres a XBMCmyth plugin but it never worked with livetv for me). - ic349, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1The article is BS. In addition to all the good comments here, he is flat wrong about re-ripping a music library to a complete lossless scenario. Unless a music CD is recorded better than AAD, a 192 bit rate is just fine. I have mine hooked up to a sub $100 5.1 speaker system and with a few tweaks and the right sound card, people think they are hearing the original disc on a high end system. I don't have tons of money to blow like some audiophiles, but I do know how to use what I got.
- LiquidPenguin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@BrianBoyko
"My big problem with the article is that HTPCs have an advantage over cable boxes in that a cable box cannot bring you TV over IP"
The problem with that statment is the assumption that an HTPC can take over the duties of a cable box. In my case that isn't possible, I have to use the cable box _with_ the HTPC. I am fortunate enough that I did find a Python script that is supposed to be able to communicate with my box. Actual communication is a different story however. - brianboyko, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1My big problem with the article is that HTPCs have an advantage over cable boxes in that a cable box cannot bring you TV over IP, and many people don't care about high def; they want to get good mileage out of existing sets. The main thing preventing me from getting either an HD or Cable is that there's a lack of compelling content for either.
- Spire3660, on 03/01/2009, -0/+0Ill never understand why people insist on pushing HD thru WiFi. Its like saying im going to feed my cable signal through a transmitter and receive TV via rabbit ears. You wouldnt do that, you would man up and wire the cable in. Just my $.02
- Spire3660, on 03/01/2009, -0/+0I have a commercial DVR for the wife acceptance factor and a HTPC running Snapstream Beyond TV for my own use. I like being able pump the signal to any PC in the house, with a nice interface and easy remote support. It works. The biggest mistake people make by FAR is feature creep. Setting up a HTPC to emulate a commercial PVR is relatively simple if you have a plan and a little PC building experience. Its when people want emulators and the ability to play back more codecs then what is be recorded etc (i.e. stuff comm. PVR doesnt do anyways) that problems and issues occur. The more features you add the more you have to QA the system to make it works smooth and eliminate kludges.
- royalspin2003, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0What everyone has failed to talk about in regard to this guys article is the technology of wireless streaming content.I realize the best way quality wise is to have an HTPC built but what Im wanting to focus on here is what everyone has missed out on.I wonder just how many people here have actually done installation work or dealt with a 80 year old lady who has money but no clue on technology and doesnt want to learn ?
I installed cable boxes and high speed internet day in and day out for years and I can honestly tell you what people want is simplicity.The average user doesnt know ***** and all they want is for it to work and be simple and reliable.
With the recent Microsoft Home Server idea becoming a reality the idea of HTPC will become something for the high end user or someone who can deal with computers who wants to tweak with the system and have contol over the sytem.Not everyone had a spare 500 to 2000 dollars to throw around per room .But they probably have a few computers and probably have quite a few files built up on their hard drives.The solution for most will be networking or using the Netgear Wireless media products for under 200 bucks and a wireless N transmitter mentioned in the article.Ive not used the product myself and I would be very curious as to the quality.But if one wants to have multiple rooms and one server this idea becomes more and more attractive to the masses.Im sure there are those out there who will argue with what Ive said but be specific and know what your talking about.When serving the public you deal with many lifestyles day in and day out and most do not know a DCT from a HTPC and they shouldnt have to and if this idea is to really take off we have to talk in terms of ease of use and simplicity plus reliabilty.
From what I see wireless is the future for the non decriminating viewer.You would be surprised just how many customers didnt even want to have their DCTs or HD recievers connected to the stereo or use the HDMI cables that the company would furnish.I would try to tell them just how much better it would look or sound but many people just want it to be simple bottom line.In anycase there is a growing market for someone to set up and home network using the wireless media devices and let the customer enjoy the service without major hassles.When talking about the future of any product we are talking about the masses here ,lets not forget that point.Companies dont care about quality when compared to quantity.They want the product to make money.The share holders want a profit and they want it to work and keep working for years to come.Im not saying anybody is wrong and Im not speaking about HD content or the the specific ins and out of the HTPC world Im talking about bringing it to the masses.Most dont even know about how to even work on a computer and for many the idea is terrifying.So lets really focus on what will really work and try to keep it simple.
http://www.microsoft.com/Presspass/press/2007/jan07/01-08WindowsHomeServerPR.mspx -
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