What is Digg?115 Comments
- gridbread, on 10/12/2007, -2/+33Yeah, the movie "Who killed the electric car?" covers it.
http://www.sonyclassics.com/whokilledtheelectriccar/ - AugustZephyr, on 10/12/2007, -1/+24no time frame was cited...
... so like 15 more years - Wedge1212, on 10/12/2007, -6/+24GM is a slow pig of a company
- bitt3n, on 10/12/2007, -1/+18if it's a shocker, I hope the plug has three prongs.
- carpespasm, on 10/12/2007, -3/+19they killed it because hummers make more money per unit, then they realized not everyone can afford to run at 8 miles a gallon when gas prices doubled and people's income didn't.
- RatTrap, on 10/12/2007, -2/+16EV1 any one the project they started like 15 years ago but then killed the idea for some reason.
- FuzzyBunny, on 10/12/2007, -0/+13This is a point that people often overlook. It's not quite as simple as you put it though. Due to their large scale, power plants are usually much more efficient at producing energy per unit of fuel than your standard internal combustion engine. Of course there's always the question of what kind of power plant you're getting your energy from too.
- ElGuano, on 10/12/2007, -2/+15What a coincidence - I'm watching "Who Killed the Electric Car?" at this very moment.
Is GM going to drop the ball yet again? - gadgetlust, on 10/12/2007, -3/+16The Japanese are going to destroy GM by bringing EV's and plug in hybrids to the North American market. I for one welcome our new amorphous-vaguely-animal-shaped overlords.
- gadgetlust, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13I smell vaporware.... And even if it isn't, why start with an SUV? Oh, right... step 2.
- alienbiker99, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12i disagree with autobahn. the electricity plants waste almost nothing and it is much cheaper to use energy from the home then it is from any other source.
- ZenMojo, on 10/12/2007, -3/+14CNN had footage of the event. Someone hopped onstage with a giant contract holding them to their vow and was thrown out by security after being pushed by Rick Wagoner. After the reporter said it could have been a parody put on by GM, the correspondent replied that GM's probably just full of *****.
There's no way this is happening. - meetthescott, on 10/12/2007, -4/+14@zenmojo
Wrong. Some jackass hopped on stage with a contract stating that GM would become the industry leader in fuel economy by 2010, and asked Mr. Wagoner to sign it. That's three years from now, which is NOT enough time to develop industry-leading fuel economy technology unless it became their primary goal... and last time I checked, corporations are in it to make money first and foremost, not to save the world in the squashed time frame that alarmists argue is bearing down on us. People like the aforementioned jackass hope to get a foolish reaction out of their intended victim, but Wagoner handed the issue smoothly, without getting flustered [saying he pushed the guy is sensationalist language... he was ushering him off the stage], and CERTAINLY without making any promises that would come back to bite his company in the ass. Instead of getting a foolish promise or making Wagoner look stupid, our jackass walked off with nothing but whatever pride he takes in making a fool out of himself for his cause. - stoppedcode12, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1110 years later (after the EV 1) and here we are again. Hopefully, this plug-in hybird is to stay.
- Shivetya, on 10/12/2007, -6/+15agilethumbs,
GM is going bankrupt because its beholden to its unions and the contracts that are forced onto it. Yes some of their problems are from building cars that did not sell well but their primary drain is the excessive pay that they put out to line workers. Combine that with retirement packages that are also excessive and you have a permanent drain on your bottom line. In fact it is unsustainable and that fact is now rearing its ugly head.
GM, Ford, and even Chrysler went from being businesses to grand social experiments. If you look at their wage, retirement, and work agreements, with the unions of the years it comes close to being a socialist dream state. The problem was of course that it relied on ever increasing profits to keep it going. This means that competition had to be contained to those participating in the scheme. The foreign automakers didn't play by the same rules and as such are not saddled with such high embedded costs.
Just like the steel mills that I grew up with the automakers will be brought down by unrelenting unions. Unions who would rather destroy than give in. The unions are already reaping what they sowed, massive job cuts and plant closings.
Unions have a purpose, the problem is that they tend to forget that purpose. - Rickler, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9To bad GM you already lost all your loyal green costumers when you killed the electric car.
- Otto, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8More to the point, electric companies love the idea of plug-in cars, because they can charge at night and equalize the power load during that time.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8One day electricity might be generated from nuclear plants or from renewable sources.
- dapperdrake, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8The interesting part about the EV1's is the after-story. They donated the few that are left to the top engineering colleges in the country...with all of the electronics gutted. I know that some schools like Wisconsin did a full rebuild of the car.
- jsg7, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8Let's be honest. GM cars are generally rated poorly in reliability ratings. That's something that Hybrids from Honda or Toyota have had major problems with (with the exception of that Prius software glitch).
I'm not sure I'd trust a GM car that is even more complicated than a normal car that they struggle with... - TennBikeBerk, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7How are hybrids a step in the wrong direction, even according to what you're saying? I don't follow.
Most people, on a day-to-day basis, "just drive in town" and don't go all that far. Using electricity from batteries to power a car is a much more efficient and cleaner way to travel, rather than using gasoline. A problem with purely battery electric vehicles is the range. So what if the mileage on the gas engine in a plug-in hybrid is the same as a non-hybrid? The mileage is actually better, but even if it were to be the same, plug-in hybrids would still be a step in the direction of burning less fuels, polluting less, and becoming more independent from foreign oil. Once we don't need foreign oil anymore, I am sure we will have money to pour into cleaning up our power plants with wind, solar, hydro and nuclear power. A few solar panels on everybody's roofs, and we could take care of all the power our cars will ever need.
Currently our power stations at night are burning more coal than they need to support the grid, but they have to burn that coal in order to maintain minimal operations. It's essentially free energy to use that power that gets wasted every night, and dump it into the first ~20 miles of our cars range on an average day. Most people don't go more than 30 miles on an average day, anyways.
All that being said, GM isn't exactly my favorite auto manufacturer, if you know what I mean. - raabco, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7I'd like to see a 30K version of the Tesla Roadster, myself.
- badtz, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9it's unfortunate it took a gas hike for people to realize they shouldn'at be driving hummers
- jull1234, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8But the question is do we get more power per unit of nitrogen oxide released from a power plant, or your average car engine.
- interiot, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6On the other hand, electricity can come from coal, natural gas, nuclear, hydroelectric, solar, wind, geothermal, biomass.... All of which have one huge benefit: they're not oil. None of them require us to entangle ourselves in middle east politics.
(okay, we still need to go over there to deal with the Taliban and such, but if we focus on one mission at a time, maybe we unquestionably succeed at one of them) - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6"One day electricity might be generated from nuclear plants or from renewable sources"
Uhh...one day? My entire house is run from wind power.
http://www.portlandgeneral.com/renewables.asp?bhcp=1 - jull1234, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Its all about getting off the grid, dude!
http://www.getoffthegrid.com
I think this would work nicely if somehow some way we started producing large, cheap solar panels and batteries. - zdiggler, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Could also be from water plants.
- jcaino, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6well, the suv market is a damn big market...
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5I'll bury your comment because it's inaccurate and you don't know what you're talking about.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8@meetthescott
Wrong. GM isn't making money. Especially when compared to it's competitors like Honda and Toyota who have far more fuel efficient vehicles. GM is going to go bankrupt and take all it's employee's retirement funds with it.
GM is more concerned with making money for it's major investors (i.e. the oil industry) than it is in turning a profit for itself. That's why GM is failing and quickly becoming irrelevant. Too bad for America...Too bad for average American's...Great for billionaires who are counting on it and investing in it. - gpmidi, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7If GM can't get wiring in their normal cars right I don't see how a hybrid from them could possibly be road worthy.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7Why can't GM make high quality family sedans? I mean, as of now, the design and economy of their car lines seem miles behind the likes of Toyota, Nissan, and Honda (did you see that Altima coupe in the past post? Smokin!).
Why start with an SUV anyway? Seems like they are just prolonging the death of the SUV, hopefully this will bring in the rise of the small and efficient family cars.
Too many 90 pound suburban housewives, driving in their SUV's: http://www.90poundsuv.com/ - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6Imagine charging a hybrid with solar panels.
- apeweek, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Beware posters who think the rest of US are stupid.
It doesn't matter that electric plants burn coal, for several reasons. First, coal plants are base-load plants - it takes several days to fire one up, so they run all the time, regardless of what's plugged in. Peak-load plants are usually hydro, natural gas, solar, and wind.
Secondly, fuel burns much more efficiently in a powerplant than it does in your car - and electric vehicles are several times more efficient than gas vehicles - so even with dirty fuel, you get much less pollution per mile.
Third, electric vehicles charge by wire (the grid is 95% efficient.) Contrast this to gasoline, which must be delivered by polluting trucks to thousands of gas stations. - griz, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6Too bad the VUE is not very highly rated by Consumer Reports.
I want to see a plugin Toyota Prius or Highlander. - carpespasm, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4this folks is what we call astroturf.
i'll beleive it when i see it. for now GM is still making hummers. - atpcliff, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Hi!
The GM execs now say they should never have aborted the electric car.
Hopefully, they will turn things around with a sensible automobile that is built right.
cliff
GRB - splatnik, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Hey, I'm going to introduce a plug in hybrid as well. It'll get 300 miles per gallon, look awesome, smell like roses all of the time, and somehow save the whales. It's gonna be way better than what honda or toyota can do so you should start buying our cars now because this means we're green.
Wake me up when they actually have a car to offer instead of a bunch of empty words. - Otto, on 10/12/2007, -6/+10The EV1 was not a plug-in hybrid, it was a pure electric car.
And this is how GM does things. First they develop the tech, then they put it into cars. As opposed to Toyota or Honda or any of those where your car might as well have a big BETA sticker on the side. - elroy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4front-wheel-drive SUV. i had a chuckle at that.
- xdre, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3And Toyota is still making Land Cruisers.
So? - timjbart, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3If you saw the film, you saw the numerous reasons why it wasn't in GMs interest to carry on making them. It would have meant them making less money, that is the bottom line. They don't care about emissions, unsurprisingly.
I know it's frustrating, but there's nothing we can do! - AnotherBrian, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I don't think they're a step in the wrong direction. It's just that they SHOULD have been the 1st step.
It's absolutely RETARDED to have a hybrid vehicle without a plug-in charger. The reason non plug-ins aren't going to go anywhere is because they have been thinking of the car as a gasoline car with a battery boost instead of an electric car with a gasoline backup for the few times when people exceed the battery range.
I vaguely remember a quote that sums up the situation: "Electric cars aren't the ultimate answer, they can only solve 80% of the problem". - BadZodiac, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I am aghast by the ignorance I see in some of these posts. One of the biggest problems that of the domestic automakers face is customer perception. GM is plagued from poor steel used in vehicles in the late 70's that affected it's quality longevity, Chrysler by the K-car era and Ford? "Found On Road Dead". The American consumers are still duped into believing that the Japanese products are far superior. Where do they learn this? Media. Half of the Auto magazines that review vehicles are ownd by Japanese corporations. Could that be why they are so foriegn biased?
If you look back on the introduction of Cadillac's CTS, I believe it was Car and Driver (foriegn lover mag) stated that the CTS was built just as good as ANY Mercedes they had ever tested. Since the launch of that vehicle, Cadillac has introduced a fully revamped carline that are selling like mad. The Pontiac Solstice and Saturn Sky have sold the first two years of production in their first six months on the road.
Here's a great example of consumer perception. In the early 90's GM ran a public clinic on two vehicles. Both vehicles were identical except for badging. One was badged as a GM, the other as a foriegn competitor. The foriegn badged vehicle got nothing but praises while the GM badged vehicle was torn to shreds. Wow, same vehicle with polar opposite outcomes.
What it boils down to is until consumers pull their heads out of their proverbial butts and actually give the American made cars an unbiased look, the 4+ points of gross national product that GM contributes to the American economy stands to be erased, along with the economy it helps support. Add in the contibutions of Ford and Chrysler, that's far more than we as a Nation can stand to loose - SuperHiTMaN, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3GM now are feeling the "kick" in the head for discontinue the EV1. They could have been so many years ahead of everybody when everybody is doing the SUV or others high gas guzzlers.
Yes, I have watched "Who Killed the Electric Cars?". I just don't get it. There would be a significant amount of electric car by now. If they sold the EV1.
I know Electric Car is not a solution to end all problem but at least it's a step in the right direction. It's an immediate STEP to the next type of fuel while we figure out what type and how to use the next fuel. We would save the environment while we figure out what to do next. Geez. oh let's drive some more gas guzzlers while claiming the future of alternative fuel is coming is not really great idea at all. At least we are doing something now instead of waiting for the future. - sedo1800, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3here here!
- SgtBeavis, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4@4tygames
The Aura is NOT a rebadged Astra.
The Aura is here: http://www.saturn.com/saturn/vehicles/aura/overview.jsp
The Astra is here: http://www.vauxhall.co.uk/vx/carsandvans/brandcarhub.do?method=loadBrandHubCarPage&vehicleType=C&scope=S&brandName=astra
The Astra is a smaller car and is not based on the Epsilon platform. In fact the Astra will be the replacement for the Saturn ION. Bob Lutz has already said as much: http://fastlane.gmblogs.com/archives/2005/01/saturn_product_1.html
The Aura was "styled" after Opel cars but isn't a rebadged Opel at all. It was designed and is built in the US. It was AFTER the Aura was introduced that Lutz and Wagoner made the decision to make Saturn the "American Opel" BTW, the Saturn Sky is imported to Europe as the Opel GT.
Anyone that thinks GM is going to go bankrupt has had their head in the sand or is just speaking from ignorance. GM, unlike Ford, is far ahead of their original recovery plan. The workforce buyout was alot more successful than had been anticipated and GM has tons of new product that is just coming out or is in the pipe. The Saturn Vue, Astra, and Outlook will complete the Saturn overhaul (the Saturn Relay is being killed) Pontiac, Buick, Chevy, and Cadillac will see their overhauls complete within the next 3 years.
Unlike Ford, GM's sales slide is over. The last few quarters have seen the trend reversed. They almost broke even last quarter and are expected to post a small profit for this last quarter. GM still has a ways to go, but the new Vue Hybrid (and the dual mode GMT900 hybrids) are evidence that GM is on the right path. - diehardapplefan, on 06/23/2008, -1/+3why do these companies feel the urge to make fuel efficient cars some of the ugliest designed cars in the industry...i wonder if GM will do the same?
- superkendall, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Give me a Telsa or give me death! Although as fast as the yare a telsa might well mean death...
I don't understand why no large car company is working to make the performace end of electric cars accessible - at 100k, the Telsa is out of the reach of many. But it seems like for 30-40k, you could have quite a powerful roadster with an electric kick in acceleration to match many of the most powerful cars on the market.
That would get a whole new market segment buying electric/hybrid. -
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