What is Digg?95 Comments
- fanboydcs, on 10/12/2007, -0/+52I still use ISA, how would AGP be dead?
- Agret, on 10/12/2007, -2/+37"Don't think that you're PC is dead"
Never fear, I don't ever think I am PC is dead......... - DigeratiPrime, on 10/12/2007, -2/+32Will there be DirectX10 AGP cards? Otherwise it is dead.
With that said I aint upgrading my 9800 Pro until DX10 cards are out :) - mkoby, on 10/12/2007, -1/+26I personally have a system that is AGP based video and it runs perfectly. I don't game a whole lot so the need for a superfast $300 card (that's PCI Express) isn't really for me. This article is good for people like me.
- poipoipoi, on 10/12/2007, -3/+24we can all sleep safely now.
- wikk!d, on 10/12/2007, -0/+19I'm waiting for ISA Express myself.
What is this PCI garbage anyway?!
(will it run on my TI-82, etc.. etc...) - djkritikal, on 10/12/2007, -0/+18A solution for you I have!
Go on eBay and pick up a set of paired VooDoo2 2000 PCI cards and set them up for SLI mode. There are two cables you will need: a short vga cable and an IDE-like ribbon cable for the internal connection.
Yes, that's right, 3dfx had it first back in 98, where do you think Nvidia got the idea? 3dfx still retained the rights to the technology after their merger with Nvidia, oddly enough, a couple of years ago the patent ran out, so now you see Nvidia with SLI and ATI with Crossfire.
I run these two in my fiance's Dell, and I can play Doom3. - Araya213, on 10/12/2007, -1/+17"Exactly. If you are a serious gamer, hold off until DirectX10 comes out. However, if you are a serious gamer you would have a PCI-E board already."
Not true, I'm a serious gamer but don't have serious bucks. True, you won't get much power out of your AGP card if you still use a P4. But a good Athlon 64 and a mid range AGP card are still more than adequate for all of the games that are out right now. But as someone said before, DX10 will most likely obsolete AGP altogether. - Arramol, on 10/12/2007, -0/+13"I have an AGP X1600 and an old 754 socket AMD 64. There is still NOTHING made (game-wise) that I cannot run on the highest possible graphics settings."
Considering that Oblivion can overtax even a GeForce 7950 GX2, methinks you exaggerate a bit. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14Lol I upgraded my rent's old Pentium 3 with a GeForce 2 MX 64 MB just so I can play Counter-Strike whenever I'm over
- donte, on 10/12/2007, -0/+13If you're playing 2-3 year old games on your 2-3 year old computer, you don't need PCI-e yet. Many of us still have our AGP boards and they do just fine. Trust me, my C&C2 - Yuri's Revenge will run just as well on my old AGP system as it would on a more expensive PCI-e one.
Damn, I can't turn on 57 samples of anti-aliasing with opti-linear filtering on our textures. I'll live. Most of the time, my gameplay isn't really that spoiled by running in 1024x768. Sure it's nice to be able to ooh and ahh at the graphics, but frankly, I've played enough beautifully rendered stinkers recently to disuade me from upgrading any time soon.
Digg for those of us sane people that don't feel like budgeting $500 a year on graphics card upgrades. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+16It usually makes little sense to upgrade an old system with a new graphics card. Somewhere in your legacy hardware will be a massive bottleneck that won't allow you to get even a fraction of the power out of your card. The result is you'll spend a lot of money on something that isn't working at even half it's capabilities.
If you're not into gaming, an old $20-40 video card should be enough for you, especially since you'll get no benefit from spending more.
If you're a gamer, you're better off upgrading many components (even in small increments) than buying one uber-leet piece of hardware and sticking it into your 5 year old box. - Slovenian6474, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12There's nothing wrong or slow about running an AGP system. The only thing really killing AGP is the lack of new cards for it. I wouldn't look down on anyone running an AGP system. But if you were going to build/purchase a new computer, most situations, it wouldn't be a smart choice to go with AGP. Upgrade to PCI express when you HAVE too. I don't see the rush though.
- ricepudd, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11I made the mistake of buying a Dell Dimension 2400 a couple of years back... I don't even have an AGP slot, let alone a PCI express!
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9This review saddens me. I spent around $300 for a 7800gs (agp). Seeing that the 7600 gets similar (and sometimes better performance) makes me regret my purchase. Not only that, I have to buy a custom waterblock to fit this 7800gs because they decided not to follow standard assembly. Makes little/no sense.
- TheWolfen, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8The CPU is the problem for a lot of people. Not too many motherboards out there with PCIe that support my Socket 478 P4. :-(
- Agret, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7"Yes, it was expensive"
Sounds like you got ripped, that's fairly average spec. You could've gotten a lot more bang for your buck if you shopped around. - pillfred, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8That was retarded.
- psych0fish, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6VESA Local Bus for the win.
- merreborn, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6For most people that this article applies to, buying a PCIe motherboard would mean that they'd also have to buy a new CPU and RAM.
- 404UserNotFound, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6If you buy an AGP card right now as an upgrade and you are spending more than $100 you are wasting money. A $300 video card purchase needs to be PCI-e, and if you don't have a PCI-e slot, spend the money to upgrade at least your motherboard (around $90) assuming that you have a reasonably new PC already which will have support for the same RAM/CPU.
All things which are being phased out aren't bad, for instance:
I happily plunked money down for a Socket 939 system even though it is being phased out because:
A.) It is the current *proven* tech that has a wide variety of design paths
B.) I could build a powerhouse for a fraction of the cost performance-wise.
Any normal upgrades such as Video cards, etc. will still be supported (PCI-e). As well as DDR. By the time I need a new CPU I'm quite certain AM2 will have been phased out as well.
Had I simply tried upgrading my old PC that has an AGP slot, it would have been $300 - $400 wasted. Further upgrades would have been futile for gaming.
Save your money and build a decent system that has a *real* upgrade path. - interiot, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Yup. See this review, AGP and PCI-E have basically similar performance right now.
http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2814 - crombie, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5I'm running an AMD64 3000+ (Newcastle) S754 system that plays previous gen games just fine. I know I'll be screwed once Crysis ships, so I've been putting together a new system, and it's WAY more than the video card. New processor, new mobo, new GPU, prolly new RAM -- I'm looking at 4 or 5 beans, easy.
The problem is, the move from AGP to PCIe involves more than the GPU is something you really have to do all at once, so I for one am very happy to squeeze another 6-12 months out of my rig with a $130.00 Leadtek 7600. - lament, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5by "legacy upgrader" do they mean "poor college student"?
- JeffH, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5There's no telling for sure, but most likely not. There wasn't supposed to be any G70 series/X1K series cards that were AGP (at least the top end ones), but some made it onto the market (despite being priced way high and not giving you performance to meet that price).
- Cablito, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Until yesterday AGP 8x was fine and we were all cheering at the newest Nvidia card.
Mind you, we pretty much the same games.
And please, do it really make you THAT happier playing at 2560x1800 or some aburd res than 1024x768? If it does, you are missing the point of playing games.
I would also like unlinear triple buffering with 20x progressive antialias and insert all the buzzwords one can come up with. But hey, I am only ***playing*** BF2. - merreborn, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I've got an old dual P3 600 system, that had a Riva in it. I stuck an AGP Geforce 4 4200 TI in it, and it plays WoW fine -- better than my brand new laptop with its lame ATI integrated graphics.
You'd be amazed what old hardware can do if you slap a good AGP card in there. - QuimZ, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4AGP was supposedly dead over a year ago. Even if AGP gets phased out in the market people will be running AGP systems for years.
AGP isn't extinct, and there's still time.
A lot of you people thought AGP was done after the 6800 series, I knew it wasn't, but I was called a ***** every time I said it would carry on. And AGP cards will still be manufactured for a few years, even if it is value-mid range cards. *which funny enough, what most people buy regardless if it's AGP or PCI-E - lament, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Once you play at higher resolutions with antialiasing and anisotropic filtering enabled, you'll never go back to jaggies and lower resolutions.
- djkritikal, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3The fact of the matter is that not everyone WANTS to upgrade. We don't NEED PCI-e, and for those that think we do, what you NEED is a ro-sham-bo to the jimmy.
Sure, PCI-e is faster, can give more power to the card, and over all is the next step in graphics technology, but that doesn't mean we HAVE to have it. I have a 6800 AGP and I play CoD2 at over 130fps. No complaints here.
It sure would make more sense to just keep your subjective mouths shut, and discuss the real story here: that there are still AGP solutions for those who can't/won't upgrade to a PCI-e card. - wolvyne, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4AGP is dead... well fading fast. Pretty much anything new especially enthusiast boards are all about PCI-E, SLI or the up and coming quad SLI. But who in their right mind wants to spend $2K just on graphic cards?
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -5/+8@ tuxuser. Spell check often?
- Boor, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4So are the people with just plain old PCI slots basically screwed.... cause thats what i have.
- fuzzmello, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3i love how the article makes it sound like he's restoring some old steam engine he unearthed. miracle of miracles! it still performs! what rugged antiques! how quaint the technology!
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4@djkiritkal:
Uhm, Nvidia BOUGHT 3dfx. That means during the acquisition they were granted ownership to any and all property (including intellectual) that 3dfx had. They also gained a handful of great engineers. It wasn't a merger at all. http://www.investopedia.com/university/mergers/mergers1.asp to clarify my point. - JeffH, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4I don't get it. So people with AGP go out and buy a $300 graphics card that doesn't hold a candle to even $200 PCI-E cards, yet the thought doesn't cross their head that maybe they could go buy a cheap PCI-E MOBO and a PCI-E graphics card that matched that $300 AGP one...but was better/equal?
The only excuse I can see for doing that is if you're on the platform Pentium 4 launched on, in which case there's relatively no PCI-E boards. But if you're on Socket 754, Socket 939, or a new Intel socket, you should be able to find a decent PCI-E MOBO for >$100. - EdLesMann, on 10/12/2007, -4/+6"I'm waiting for ISA Express myself."
What? Seriously? Dude, you gotta start keeping up on these things. You should totally subscribe to a Technology website or something...
My Extended ISA rocks my p2's sox off! You should really consider upgrading for the ultimate gaming experiance! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extended_Industry_Standard_Architecture
#end obvious sarcasm and joking :-D
#yes I had (may still have) a network card and sound card for EISA...not sure if I should be proud of that, or just sad I still have it... - OBKenobi, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3My AGP card still seems to work. I don't think it's dead yet.
- lament, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2wow.. you're gonna be pissed when you upgrade next, because AMD is now pimping the AM2 socket with DDR2 (which requires a new motherboard/CPU), and Intel's Conroe (LGA775 socket) which also requires a new motherboard/CPU.
- OBKenobi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"DX10 will most likely obsolete AGP altogether."
You need PCIe to take full advantage of DX10's unified memory management feature (whatever it's called). So unless they start releasing AGP cards with 1 GB of RAM, PCIe cards will have a major advantage in DX10.
But there won't be many games to take advantage of this out until at least Q4 2007. Most are still going to be DX9. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Yup, but we AGP people get top of the line cards at a heftier price. So pretty much PCI-Express is the way to go. not only is it better but ironically it's even cheaper.
- merreborn, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2About the nicest thing you'll be able to put in that is a Geforce 4000MX.
They suck. - JacksonEMG, on 10/12/2007, -4/+6Exactly. If you are a serious gamer, hold off until DirectX10 comes out. However, if you are a serious gamer you would have a PCI-E board already.
I can still run FEAR and CS:S off my 9600XT with a AMD 2800+. If you are looking to upgrade your AGP video card, don't spend more then $150 on one. Hell, even my card will last me for awhile still. - pillfred, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2True for roughly the same price you can get into a decent board and a card. I have this dilemma right now. Although i also run a cheap sempron754, so i need more help than just a gfx card. Like the poster above said x850xt $300 agp, and there like half that for pci-e
- djkritikal, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Look at my comment above for a solution that should put back into the running for a little while.
- psych0fish, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I've got a 9800 pro myself, and it is a very well performing card for the money I payed for it ($99 on ebay). The AGP version of the x800 is also a very good performing card for the money.
- NismoDrift, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1My pci-e is not top of the line its around high-med end graphics card. XFX GeForce 6800 XT its pretty good. But it cant run too many frames with highest resolution supported by monitor 1280 x 1024, and full antialiasing and anisotrophic. I hope they redo DirectX perfectly so frames rates dont get messed up just because quality is set all the way up. Either than that I'm just waiting til next year to buy all the new stuff. Hell if PCI still isnt dead for graphics, then AGP wont die anytime soon.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1The same thing is happening to ram. As all the manufacturers build up larger inventories of DDR2 for the 775 and AM2 platform, you can get it cheaper than DDR now. When DDR3 hits it'll be even cheaper.
The industry has ways of encouraging you to upgrade. - varmint007, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I just finished researching an overhaul to my gaming rig and found a very sweet option that let's me keep my AGP 7600xt, have a PCI-E slot for upgrading later, and more than double my processor speed (coming from an XP1800+) for about $160 from newegg.
Here's the mobo (which also supports conroe):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813157092
Here's the CPU (Dual-core D 805)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819116001
Let's me keep a foot in the old world while opening the door to upgrades in about 2 years when core-2 duo chips are cheap (of course quad cores will be out then). - QuimZ, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1The only reason why PCI-E is becoming a dominant force so quickly is because word of mouth is that AGP has been dead since the 6800 series...There were no real world gains in using a 6800 series PCI-E over and AGP card unless you had to have SLI (which price to performance, hasn't seemed to pan out yet, as the next series of single card usually kicks the nuts of the old series in SLI mode). And as of yet, of the current cards out that have both versions, the PCI-E is FAR from a night and day difference, not even close to warranting the price of a decent motherboard, when you could have had AGP.
Everyone bought into the hype set forth by manufacturers of switching over, and before we've seen real gains..Now because most a lot users who upgraded aren't very bright and (or) have to make themselves feel better for spending $XXX amount of dollars just because they wanted the PCI-E flavor of the card, they automatically call it dead, when in fact it's not.
Point is; if you're buying or building a new computer PCI-E is the way to go for the future...But if you have a decent system already, why bother switching to PCI-E when you really don't need to? Do you like throwing hard-earned money away? -
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