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Why I’m Homeschooling My Kid in Science Next Year

astronomybuff.com — A scientist mom view on why she is teaching science to her son and friends at home and why the Colorado public school system is not so good.

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  • juventus1, on 10/16/2007, -6/+181respect to the mother. I just got done with my highschool and while my school didnt seem quite so bad, (as that one science teacher especially), its obvious that the education system in the united states sucks ass
    • philliesphan026, on 10/16/2007, -4/+31Actually I think it's his father, but point well taken.

      And I hate teachers like that, it undermines education when they put organization ahead of it, especially at such a high margin (80% of the grade based on organization). Pathetic.
    • segovia101, on 10/16/2007, -17/+4"A scientist mom view on why she is teaching science to her son.."
      • Charlotte_Web, on 10/10/2007, -4/+12The byline says "By Tony".

        The poster was wrong.
        • Nin10dude, on 10/10/2007, -0/+7Since when has Tony been a name exclusive to men?
        • knetworx, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1My (female) cousin's name is Tony.
    • KLowD9x, on 10/16/2007, -20/+5"It's obvious that the education system in the United States sucks ass"

      So tell me, how many foreign schools have you been enrolled in?
      • zybch, on 10/16/2007, -0/+9I did my schooling in australia where the science curriculum is far far better.
        However, its getting worse, the focus is more on learning things, instead of learning HOW to learn.
      • barakatx2, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5did he say that anyone else's school's suck? no, so why does it matter if he's been enrolled in a foreign school? troll.
      • bludragn0, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3At least one, and it was much more rigorous. (India)
      • juventus1, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3well, i went to school in india as well as in italy...
      • Myonosken, on 10/10/2007, -2/+3I spent a year in US education, and I was amazed at how poor it was compared to the UK, despite what the Daily Mail says.
      • natedouglas, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2That sure bit you in the ass, didn't it?
      • soomprimal, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4What does that have to do with the US system sucking ass? This isn't a measure of suck-ass relativity worldwide. Stop blindly cheerleading for the US and grow a brain.
        • knetworx, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Dugg for using the phrase "suck-ass relativity worldwide."
        • KLowD9x, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1It has everything to do with it.

          If you only know one thing and base your opinion on it because you "think" it sucks ass, then your opinion means nothing.
    • ch4os1337, on 10/16/2007, -20/+9lol 3/4 of my science teachers also teach religion... guess what they teach in my science class? christian ***** thats what (btw I live in canada)
      • Bamborzled, on 10/10/2007, -9/+2Do you live in Alberta or Saskatchewan? Those provinces are Canada's most right-wing.
      • McTendo, on 10/10/2007, -0/+7Please don't tell anyone you're Canadian, you're making the rest of us look bad.
    • h4mx0r, on 10/16/2007, -2/+13"And I couldn’t care less about the state of their goddam notebooks."
      Nothing but the truth. I had chemistry last year and we had notebook checks. Admittedly I don't use a binder. I do well with dropping things in my backpack and finding them in chronological order of last use. I damn well guarantee that if those weren't counted, I could have bumped up into the next letter grade.
      • blahtastic, on 10/10/2007, -1/+6i always did that too...But when we had notebook checks, I'd drag a binder with me and throw it together that morning. I don't see whats so impossible about that unless they're surprise notebook checks. Ours were usually announced or once at the end of a quarter (I don't know if every schools follows the quarters thing..it's around 9 weeks long incase you're not familiar, and you get a report card at the end of each, depending on what classes you have they may switch after the quarter is up)
      • LeeSoong, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1The problem with most teachers is they are worthless - never actually stepping outside of the school system to work in the real world. They go from grade school to high school to university to working in public schools - knowing absolutely nothing.

        A chemistry teacher should work a few years in a lab, a biology teacher work a few years in a hospital, zoo, park, or research center, a history teacher help out on archaeologist digs, etc. A 3 year minimum 'Market Workplace' requirement would weed out teachers that have never experienced working beyond a homework assignment.

        Having worked in the Real World, professional teachers would know that notes need organized - but content must be accurate. It also would help teachers explain the age old question 'why is this important?'.

        The 'No Child Left Behind' Military Recruitment Act forces children to learn nothing but taking tests, minimizing their creativity, limiting their exposure to Art, Music, and until recently Science. The ongoing military database on All U.S. Citizens grows - knowing their names, addresses, academic performance, phone and email, etc.

        The next military draft - for both young men and young women - will have greater success since the U.S. Armed forces already will have detailed private information on your children, and on you - all because of the NCLB Act.

    • djphatjive, on 10/16/2007, -0/+9When I went to Westminster High School in 93 in Colorado, there was a science teacher there that for 3 years failed everyone except for 5 people. And they never fired her. She Sucked Ass!
    • techmaster, on 10/16/2007, -14/+7What bothers me most about his rantings, is his first observation is that he asks his kid what year we landed on the moon, and the kid didn't know. Therefore, the kid must not know science. That is not science, that is history. And whether or not you know the exact year that something happened in history is not going to determine whether you succeed or fail in life. The only true benefit to history being taught in school is to learn lessons about consequences. When a fascist runs a nation, and starts exterminating an entire race and trying to take over the world, he ends up getting his ass kicked by the rest of the world. Okay, the moral is don't be an *****. But in 1492 Christopher Columbus sailed the Atlantic and discovered the Americas. Somehow I remember that fact to this day, but has it ever benefitted me once in life? Absolutely not. The only classes in school that are beneficial whatsoever are math, science, and language arts. But, if your child doesn't know what year something happened, it does not instantly make them an imbecile that will fail at life. I do agree, though, that some teachers place too much emphasis on organization and not on the actual curriculum. Not to mention that the curriculum just plain sucks. Nowadays, a lot of schools are starting to try and better prepare students for college, by having what they call academy programs. You can basically choose your college major in high school, and take classes that are relevant to your major, to be better prepared once you do get to college. It sounds cool in some ways, but 4 years out of high school I still had no idea what I wanted for a career. But now you have to make that decision while in junior high? Something tells me there's going to be a lot of firemen and astronauts in these academy programs. Everything of any importance that I learned in grade school, I learned in elementary school. The rest I learned on my own after graduation. They need to just let you hurry up and get school out of the way so that you can actually learn something useful.
      • cwabray, on 10/16/2007, -0/+15"Don't let schooling interfere with your education." -Mark Twain
      • Chassit, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4Uhh Leif Erikson was the first European to land on America.
      • LeeSoong, on 10/16/2007, -0/+2Christopher Columbus didn't discover anything - there were several generations of civilizations living in the 'Americas' long before the European slaughter, enslavement, and occupation of this side of the Planet.

        Of course, much of their culture was lost - destroyed by the Church, burned or melted down and stolen.
    • jetcopter, on 10/16/2007, -0/+7Saying that the entire education system in the US "sucks ass" is not a fair statement. Perhaps you should just move to a state that has a better education system. There are many states across the US that have excellent public schools. Of course if you live in the towns that have the best public schools then you are going to be paying more in property taxes. After all, if you want to attract the best teachers and administrators that really care, you are going to have to pay them well. Otherwise you are going to get the teachers and administrators that no one else wanted.
    • ZellD, on 10/10/2007, -2/+4The U.S. education doesn't "suck ass", despite what reports often say. I always hear that Japanese students excel when compared to U.S. students. In some areas this is true, basic science skills, literacy, and history. As someone living in Japan, I've found they make far fewer linguistic mistakes compared to myself and they can certainly list names and dates better than I can.

      So whats the problem? Huge numbers of students attend expensive private schools and cram schools. To get their child into a good university here the parents often pay for expensive pre-university education and the opportunity cost of the mother staying at home.

      The second issue is that many of the students lack critical thinking skills and are only good at memorization. I'm attending one of the most famous universities in Japan and the Japanese students here are shockingly bad at higher level types of work. Its a trade off, SAT skills versus critical thinking. I'm not saying one is better than the other as both are very useful but the critical and creative thinking is certainly harder to measure.
      • toxicshok, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1which is the reason they dominate the car market.
      • LeeSoong, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1ya - Japanese students excel at committing suicide too.
    • essjay, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2You should try the UK schools. it wasn't like this when I went through but these days everyone just jumps from one standardised test to another. There's a major test pretty much every two years, and you will only ever get taught how to pass the test. It's like learning to drive. You get taught how to pass the test, not how to drive. That's why so many people die in their first year driving, and why people find themselves completely out of their depth when they first go into higher education (unless they did some extra-curriculum learning off their own back).
    • AUniquePerson, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1My parents homeschooled me when we lived in Colorado because of the sheer suckyness of that education system. I can't say much about the rest of the US, having only experience in Minnesota (whos public schools are actually pretty good). But Colorado, around Denver especially, could do better.
  • lOvOl, on 10/16/2007, -23/+233My mother used to be a public school art teacher in Columbus, Ohio and she actually cared about what the kids learned, but unfortunately the whole system runs on politics. Trying to make a difference in the lives of kids will actually get you in trouble.

    One of the most outrageous examples was once my mother was trying to break up a fight between two boys in her class. In the process of that, she managed to get her thumb broken. Naturally being upset she said something to the effect "if you want to act like animals, then you can go home".

    Now, the kids who were fighting in the classroom did not get disciplined in any significant way. I think they had to go to some room for a while (a time-out room) for 4th graders or whatever grade she was teaching at the time, but that was about it. Unfortunately for my mom, the ignorant single-mother of one of the boys filed a complaint with the school that my mother was "racist" for suggesting that her child was acting like an animal and my mom had to go through a whole lot of administrative crap before it was eventually dropped. She probably would have been fired if not for the teacher unions that make it basically impossible for tenured teachers to be fired. The fact the school cares more about the unsubstantiated claim of some ignorant single mother that pulled a "Jesse Jackson" on the exaggerated claims of her boogerspawn, than my mother's broken thumb, is one of many examples of why the last place you want to send your child to get educated these days is "public school".

    Now, there are a lot of horrible teachers out there and even worse administrators. Unfortunately, the good teachers can't do much outside of follow the rules by the book that are created by political bureaucrats who have never taught a day in their life, because if they do they get kicked down by politics. In addition, as long as nobody stands up to ignorant parents who threaten to sue if their "angel" is ever disciplined at school, then a few unruly kids will make it impossible for any of the other kids to get an education. By the time high school comes around, the unruly kids drop out, but a lot of other kids who have been demotivated by school because of disruptive students, end up dropping out as well.

    If I was president, I would ban public schools nationwide and instead give every parent $5,000 a year per child in voucher money to go to the school of their choice. Our public school system is a socialist blight on America and needs to be terminated one way or another.
    • frieddonuts, on 10/16/2007, -73/+5Do you actually have the time to write a mini-essay in a comments section?
      • natedouglas, on 10/10/2007, -0/+21Do you actually have the time to post a completely meaningless comment? A 50-page comment with something to say isn't a waste of time.
    • jbinl, on 10/16/2007, -2/+65Being a public school teacher myself, it is not just Ohio, it is the whole USA that falls into the same situation. I grew up in Ohio, witnessed the tragic subpar performance of its schools, and now I see the same in the south where I teach science. It is sad. I would NEVER send a child of mine to the school at which I teach, even though I consider myself to be a pretty good teacher.
      • MrNewbie, on 10/10/2007, -1/+17Believe me, it's not just the US, either. I have *exactly* the same outlook as you, am a teacher like you, but I'm in Canada.
    • str3ama, on 10/16/2007, -42/+13whoah you've got a lot anger there, first of all why does it matter the lady who complained was a single mother? It has no correlation to anything in your story, and secondly her comment is offensive (racism aside). You can't go around telling kids that they behave "uncivilized" at home, regardless of kid's ethnicity it's insulting.

      You seem really full of rage, you keep mentioning the fact that the lady was a single parent as if it was evidence to prove that your mother was innocent - which judging from what she said is understandable of why she was penalized (unprofessional conduct).

      $5000 a year to every parent would be one of the worst things you could do, as I've said before, there are some parents who hold some pretty backward views of the world. There are people who think the world is flat, there are people who think aliens live among us, and then there are people who think gravity does not exist, and others still who believe that red is blue and blue is red. We have teachers so that parents of children who aren't educated can still get their children some basic education, as bad as it may be - it's still a lot better then what most parents could teach their children.

      What needs to be done is the re-introduction of arts, music and sports in to schools. There's an emphasis on trivial things like safe-school policies and security, and drug awareness programs that are just so useless and a complete waste of money. Have security, but be rational about it - you don't need drug sniffing dogs, you don't need police cruisers, or gun detection machines (yea guns are a problem, but this is a school not an airport). The atmospheres of schools nowadays is a hostile revolving door factory where kids are taken, information thrown at them (only some of which sticks), and then they're dumped out to go work menial jobs or to go on to college. It's not an atmosphere of learning, because it's run like a prison or a business.
      • Spartycus, on 10/10/2007, -4/+11I didnt detect any "rage" in the previous post. I'm not sure of the actual facts, but I gathered that the poster actually knew that the mother was single (regardless of its relevance, if it was factual it did not hurt the arguement either.

        As for the $5000 voucher idea, its called a voucher for a reason. Essentially, the system works more like a credit system. You have $5000 to allocate towards the school of your choice. If school A sucks, you take your voucher to school B, or C etc. Transportation isnt that hard in most areas where you would have a choice, and the areas where there is only one school would be under more pressure from the parents to provide a better education. Its far better than our current system that promotes babysitting of delinquents and passing them on year after year in the name of fairness.
        • str3ama, on 10/10/2007, -16/+4(s)he kept using "ignorant single mother" repetitively, but asides from that the voucher system is flawed because schools located in poor areas are least likely to get funding and that means that the kids that are forced to attend those schools because of geographical restraints (remember no funding, means no buses to elsewhere) would have one of the worst schooling experiences with no money to pay for proper resources (let alone the bare essentials). This would ruin the system entirely. Personally I don't have children, and I would like the option to divert my taxes elsewhere (to opt to not have to pay for schools, but rather pay for something else) - but since I'm forced to pay for schooling for everyone's children I want it to be equal - I don't want any school to get more then another because X school's parents are better at lobbying for X school to get increased funding.
        • scubajim, on 10/10/2007, -2/+7Well in actuality you are wrong. In places where they have used vouchers it has worked very well. Funding isn't a measure of how good the school is. If it was DC public schools would be the best. (They are far from that.) Your argument is the typical = funding implies equal results. No it doesn't. One has very little to do with the other. The focus of the education system in educating the students is a good correlation of effectiveness. Vouchers allow the schools to focus on what their customers want. (You attract money if you give the customers what they want for a reasonable price.) The current system makes that devoid.

          The voucher system would actually help children in poorly performing schools MORE. It would allow competition to bring in new schools to teach. Most public high schools are spending about $10,000 per student per year. If you have 30 students in a class are you going to tell me you can't teach those high school students for $300,000 per year?
      • notthemama, on 10/10/2007, -4/+15How would more arts, music, and sports in schools change the horrible teaching of science?
        Why do you claim rage in the OP? The woman's finger was broken and she said "if you want to act like animals, you can go home". WHAT part of that is saying one bloody thing about their home life?
        Are you reading into posts or something?

        Btw, a voucher system is a great idea. It would give parents some choice.
        • str3ama, on 10/10/2007, -19/+2>Why do you claim rage in the OP?
          1) Because of the underlying not-so-implicit scourn against 1) allegations of racism "Jesse Jackson'd" (because apparently racism doesn't exist, and all allegations of racism are clearly just made up to get attention /sarcasm)
          2) Because the parent's marital status, which OP makes a point of repetitively referencing, has absolutely nothing to do with anything in the story. I'm wearing a black top hat and a glass monocle, that's why.

          >if you want to act like animals, you can go home
          read that sentence again slowly if you have to. Act like an animal = your home (ignore any racism that it may entail), it's still offensive.
          • Touchy610, on 10/10/2007, -1/+11Or, ya know, it could have meant "If you want to act like an animal, do it in your own home, and not here." I've heard things like that repeatedly when I was in school.

            I think you're just trying to twist words just to fit your argument.
      • Orat, on 10/10/2007, -3/+13Rage? Anger? Where? I suspect you barely glanced over this post before you replied to it. That is primarily evident by the fact that you put "uncivilized" in quotes, when the OP never even used that word. What the OP said was that his mother told the two students *who were engaged in a physical altercation in her classroom* that they could "go home" if they were going to act like "animals". You know, that is what animals do- they use physical violence to solve conflict. That has no place in a classroom and the teacher was not only well within her rights to point that out, she was obligated to do so! And what did she get for it? A broken bone and a stupid parent who decided to make her life miserable because her precious child can do no wrong.

        As for the references to single mothers, how many have you met or had to deal with in a professional environment? How many single mothers make up your client base, or are responsible for your clients? I suspect the answer is 0 in every case, otherwise you might understand the relationship between single mothers and poorly-behaved children.

        It isn't art, music, or ***** sports that our children are lacking in school. It's competent instruction in MATH, SCIENCE, HISTORY, and LANGUAGE. Sports? SPORTS? A voucher that would let a parent send their child to a school that will provide a strong education when they otherwise would have to send that child to a failing school is a bad solution to our education problems, but SPORTS is the answer?

        Federal and state welfare programs provide money so that lower income people can purchase basic healthy foods such as milk and bread and the use of this money is restricted to such items. Obviously voucher money would come with similar strings attached so that we could be reasonably sure, at least as sure as we are now but probably much moreso, that children are getting the education they need.
      • patch6, on 10/10/2007, -1/+8Homeschooled and private school students routinely outperform those in public schools, though the first group tends to have the best performance overall.
        • yakski, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1not true ... independent studies do not show this to be true overall... it depends on child's age and the local school system ... overall homeschoolers do worse in some areas and better in others... private schools likewise. It all depends on how you make your comparisons. The reality is that there is no good study that defines the variables strictly enough to tell which is better. Mostly it seems to depend on enormous variety in all areas, homeschooling, public and private schooling. You cannot make claims that any specific system is superior.
      • Cyberbladewolf, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3I think you really need to remove "Sports" from that list of yours. If anything the schools need to cut down on the sports. Many public schools focus more on the sports teams then they ever do education. Plus, often enough they don't bother teaching any good sportsmanship. So at that point, students and parents are swearing at eachother for some trivial game.
    • sandrock, on 10/16/2007, -2/+18Dugg for 'boogerspawn' :)
    • Reidtheweed01, on 10/16/2007, -15/+2Funny that you say that about gving a voucher to kids who attend an under achieving school. Was this all your idea?

      Too bad they already do that in columbus and I would think the rest of the state. Dont try to act like you have some solution, when exactly what you just said is in place, and yet you still complain.
    • getsk3wled, on 10/16/2007, -0/+34My AP English teacher has nearly been fired from parents complaining that their 'precious football playing son' is failing. It's senior english she teaches, along with freshman AP english and AP lang for juniors. She actually GIVES homework. She makes students DO work, compared to other teachers. It's not a blow off class by any means whatsoever. But they're Seniors and the school board/principal says they have to pass. They passed the TAKS test, so they should graduate, and a "stupid english class" shouldn't hurt that. The class isn't outlandishly hard, it's just more challenging than all the other classes. It's regular english 4, and they still do jock stuff in her class, talk, and don't care.
      it's absolutely disgusting.
      she's a BRILLIANT woman, and she isn't all that old. she still takes 12 hours a summer in college, and has graduated from at least 4 colleges, and attended several more. she takes stuff in the summer, still on a teacher's salary.
      she cares about her students, they don't care about her.
      and as long as the parents "demand" that their kid graduate. she'll have to pass them.
      1/3 of graduated americans have no employable skills (a.k.a.: can't read or write)
      do you know, HOW that happens? because the parents demand that they graduate. and it works.
      absolutely horrifying, isn't it?
      • badjoke, on 10/10/2007, -14/+6AP English hasn't taught you much about grammar or composition, has it?
        • natedouglas, on 10/10/2007, -1/+10If what he said was unambiguous, logical, and comprehensible, then I'd say he got his point across well enough.
        • iticu, on 10/10/2007, -2/+7Idiot.
      • tsmithkc, on 10/10/2007, -0/+9Gets, I don't see why you're so upset. Without these jocks and their parents, who would scrub our toilets or prepare our fast food orders? If not for functionally illiterate meatheads like the ones you describe, why, I'd have to mow my own lawn. It really would be a tragedy.

        Seriously, if these people want to throw away their opportunity for an education, let them. Who are we to deny them their career holding the SLOW/STOP sign in a construction zone?
        • nerditup, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1I would never want a job where a pole could replace me
        • gh0st3000, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0The problem with letting it go is that by lowering the standards, it's harder to distinguish the "dumb as rock" kids from the kids that actually care about their studies.
        • toxicshok, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1That would be illegals.
        • reddikilowatt, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Except they won't be cleaning toilets. In this age of "teamwork" management they'll be the ones who get ahead of you because they are great "team players." Who cares if they are dumb as rocks? They have great People Skills.
      • Drizzit, on 10/10/2007, -5/+3Maybe that's why the football player is failing. Homework. We pay teachers to teach, not send our kids home to finish schoolwork that 80% of the time the teacher is teaching a method not in the book. I work 9-14 hours a day on average, and if my child wants to participate in any after school program then that's even less time for homework. Now that being said most kids have 6 teachers a day. 6 teachers a day's worth of homework is never going to get finished.

        My niece is in 1st grade and she gets sent home with homework.

        Personally schools help destroy families, the time they have to spend together is fustrated by the fact that the parent has to relearn something they have not used in ages and then teach their kid. In Texas it's very insulting since we have on of the highest property tax rates in the country to pay for our schools and the schools try to pawn off their work to the class and the parents after work.

        Know what a teacher does sometimes. They take attendance, tell them to read x pages, and then they go sit down until 5 minutes before the bell. They then proceed to tell the students what their homework assignment is. Rinse and repeat. Do not believe me go sit through each of your kids classes for a week and I bet you'll see it happen.
        • thedragon4453, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1I'm sorry, but I disagree. Homework has been around a while, and I think it should stay. In my experience (been out of school for about 4 years) homework was only as bad as I let it become. If I was conscientious about getting my homework done, I could usually get most of it done during school. In my area, kids are now required to take a study hall, off campus, or something like that, which again, makes getting homework done easier. That, and I think that homework is better for teaching accountability.

          Although, I definitely do not like the "read x pages, do assignment y" and thats the whole class. There are two possible reasons why you would have to help your kid so much with their homework - the teacher failed to teach it so that they would understand, or the kid screwed around and didn't pay attention. I think the problem is really a lot of both. Teachers have such ***** jobs now and I think that is why there is a problem. As someone posted above, its all a political thing now.

          And, like the example above, it is sometimes the kids fault. Sometimes the kid needs to just stop screwing off. I think probably the ***** thing for the teachers is really trying to do their job, and having to put up with bickering parents because they just can't believe that Johnny doesn't give a ***** about economics and doesn't try. Sometimes the children would be best served by dealing with consequences, instead of having mommy and daddy bail them out. On a previous thread, there was a lot of talk about how the teen years seem to be extending into the twenties, and I think it is because the parents allow it instead of actually teaching responsibility.
    • redfox2600, on 10/16/2007, -2/+10IOVOI I whole heartedly agree with you. We need to encourage student to learn more and put kids who really do want a good education into the schools they deserve.

      I remember being a TA a while back and these stupid parents can't even open up their own eyes and see that their kid is a failure at life and need to learn to grow up. One day when I was mixing up the chemicals for the next lab. This parent came in mad as hell and demanded to see the instructor. Now she look like the stereotypical power-woman who probably has a low rank job and tries to manage her family at the same time. Her kid is with her and look like a want-a-be punk rocker/ gangster who doesn't give a ***** about school if his life depended upon it. So I got my instructor and when back to preparing the chemical trays.

      Now my instructor was a god send he made science even memorizing chemical structures fun. So by no means was this he one of those ***** "Oh your notebook is 80% of your grade" teachers who stop caring about the students.

      Now the conversation between my instructor and the parent when along the lines of "Why the hell is my son failing it your(instructor) fault he is not doing so well" "What special treatment can you give him so that his grades improve? (i.e. free points)"

      So a lot of instructor, after years of that, just plain give up. I mean what the point if the parents are going to be ***** to you for just giving their son a bad score and not letting him take responsibility. If you rarely have students who try and work hard at they what they do. When most of them are more concern with the number you give them and bitch and whine about it with their parents who side with them what the point of teaching?

      The sad thing is that if parents can just freaking discipline their kids teach them responsibility and just tell them it their fault we wouldn't have a lot of the problems in this world that we do today. We wouldn't need to put every other child on mind altering drugs, we wouldn't need to constantly increase the age of adulthood.

      @str3ama "re-introduction of arts, music and sports in to schools" what the hell will that do? I'm not an art/music/sport person. I will never be. I hated being given a crayon and told to "express my feelings". I have friends in private school that where more specialize in and math/engineering they accomplished and learn thing I would have gladly traded a basic art program for.

      The voucher idea is sound, let your kids be in school they want to be in. If your an art person then go to an art school if you love science then be in the school with the best science program.
      • natedouglas, on 10/11/2007, -1/+9I hated art class in school too. I think kids need to pursue their own interests: believe it or not, they WANT to learn, so if you can facillitate their curiosity and not ruin their enjoyment of whatever subjects interest them, they'll largely school themselves. Unschooling FTW.
      • Overgrown, on 10/25/2007, -0/+0Exactly, people are more apt to do their best at what they are interested in and what they are naturally good at. We are given natural skills and talents from birth. As parents, we should recognize what those are in our children and help them make thier way through life by doing what they are good at. Kids will only get better and stay interested and excell and be a better person for society in general instead of wasting their life away going in a direction that they are not sure of not knowing what they want to do. Knowing what we want is half of the battle for a successful life.

        Discipline is another huge part that is lacking in kids these days. What are parents thinking anymore?
    • theodenking, on 10/10/2007, -2/+17Totally agreed up until the idiotic voucher system. You've just described how lots of parents can be ignorant and neglectful, and you want to entrust education to them? There's no reason why public schools can't be functional, flexible in terms of subject matter and responsive to individual needs. I live in Britain and although our system is far from perfect it seems to be quite a bit better than the horror stories about American public schooling.
      • ffleming, on 10/10/2007, -2/+11Most the the horror stories come from inner cities and Appalachia (which are appalling and need more funding) and idiotic libertarians that think that capitalism-based education would somehow allow poor people (in inner cities and Appalachia) to get good education. Why they actually believe that is an utter mystery.
        • natedouglas, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5I believe people should educate their own children. I realize that sounds insane, but it's what my wife and I intend to do. Reduce your monthly bills, through sustainable water, electricity, heating, and so forth, to the point where you can survive on one paycheck, and then work to teach your child to self-educate and facilitate their exploration with proper materials, tutoring, and so forth.

          It's not possible for everyone, or even most people necessarily, but I personally believe it's what we should strive for. Maybe if people didn't even have the pretense of being able to depend on underpaid and overworked teachers to make up for the rampant intellectual laziness at home, and realized they and only they were going to determine their kids' futures, they'd stop sending their kids out into the world as hopeless failures ***** from the start.
    • deadmann, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3The schools get evaluated on the performance of the students, since we start with the assumption that all students have the same potential, the quality of the teaching is the only variable. So they have to find ways to mark that don't rely on either being able to do the math or not, so they come up with this crap like book tidiness and explaining the impact of mathematics on diversity.
    • addiktion, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3It's sad isn't it. I remember a counselor of mine coming into one of my classes of 33 students and said " 3 of you will go to college but you will drop out, another 3 of you will go to college and actually get a 4 year degree" At that moment it struck me at how stupid my school really was. It's not just my school though its everywhere too!

      Luckily I'm one of 6 that is going to college right now. I have another 6 months until I get my Associates degree so I'm almost half way there! It's crazy though my fiancee was home schooled and she's super smart. I think it's because her mother focused on the meat of the bone instead of the price of the steak. Thats all the school cares about is money, and all the government cares about is a dumbed down population that can't think for itself.
      • penguinofhonor, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Wow, your counselor said that? I bet someone tried to sue him/her. America is like that.
      • gh0st3000, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0Surely, someone was deeply offended because by that statement, the instructor said they were mentally deficient. Never mind the fact that the child probably didn't know what mentally deficient meant before his rabid parents complained.
    • Overgrown, on 10/23/2007, -0/+0About the kids not being disciplined, this is a small thing actually and poor behavior can now be expected of children in the public school systems. Remember, they did away with capitol punishment. It was alive and well when i went and there NO fences around our school, NO police walking the grounds, no gangs, etc. Even us 'rednecks' carried pocket knives (small town but still) and actually used them as tools instead of weapons. Now a kid would go to jail for carrying a simple, pocket knife? I guess society has changed a HUGE amount since i went less than 20 years ago. But, its to be expected. Especially when the parents these days are too lazy or afraid to discipline. The world teaches not to discipline in the correct fashion so what else can be expected?

      When a parent can have their OWN children taken from them by government force (without a prior investigation) for spanking and correcting? What kind of BS is this? Spanking actually is an act of love as opposed to abuse. I'm certain there are parents who sadly do abuse their kids. but spanking is NOT abuse. Its correction. and a stinging pat on the buttocks will never hurt a child one bit. I had 3 "whacks" with a wooden flat cutting board like instrument (yes wow did that sting!) the entire time i was in public school. They were justified for my behavior. Our principle actually cared about us and at the time was not overruled by this invasion of political correctness. I hate the political correct theme, its nothing more than pure socialistic brainwashing of America. and BTW, if you haven't noticed... It WORKING!

      My parents took care of the important things. It was not left up to the public school to raise me! That IS socialistic propaganda, communistic and totally anti-American. Or at least used to be anti-American! Parents now are scared to 'hurt their child's feelings'. This will be the downfall of society. Even the bible says that as parents we don't love our kids if we don't discipline them. But that's a little off topic.

      I'm 100% FOR Homeschooling and our kids are being home-schooled. Public school is exactly as described here. The public schools are 100% politically ran now and since its federal or state funded, they have the say so over what is taught, how its taught, what is NOT taught and they are bombarding our kids with strange beliefs!

      Look at the new bill (now a law) in California... Its FANATICAL, shameful and totally non-sensible. To make an Unconstitutional ruling that using the terms: Mom, Dad, Husband and Wife are not allowed to be spoken by students or faculty is past shameful... its insane. So what if someone gets their feelings hurt. Familes are what are being destroyed here. Not someones 'gender' identity. Moreover, its insane to FORCE schools to allow boys to enter girls bathrooms and locker rooms and vice versa so they can "find their true gender identity"? What in the WORLD! - Past insane. That will lead to all kinds of bad, bad behavior. obviously some beleive im wrong. Its not equalty, its making normal famlies, abnormal and putting them to shame. it opens a can of worms for hate crime law suits and any other crazy thing that the poeple can imagine. This is very bad. was a very bad decision.

      I hope that parents yank their children right out the public schools in California immediately. The ones who care and can afford to, will if they already haven't. The ones who DON'T care, will just live and let live and that makes a sad statement for our culture in this day of late 2007. Our voice must be heard to these types of things or it will only get worse, much worse. There's no doubt about that. We wont have a U.S. Constitution left to hold onto. sad, sad.

      I agree, good teachers are muzzled from being good teachers at the hand of politics and all this new BS. I am scared to think of what will be in the minds of our teens when they reach mid 20's. They will be indoctrinated by very strange beliefs and that's difficult for them to be turned around once its set in stone.

      Its time for our voice to be heard. Right the wrongs, before its too late! Its not yet too late, but there isn't much time.

      I stayed in Highschool, but if i had known that I could have just as easily went to community college as an alternative while in my senior year, i would have been there. I hated highschool. I love freedom.
  • Error601, on 10/13/2007, -40/+6It's funny she asks a history question in the context of complaining about science education.
    • swordedge, on 10/10/2007, -5/+34Knowing when the US landed a man on the moon IS science. It's also history as science builds on what we already know and what we already know is history. NOT knowing how to answer that question past first grade is criminal.
      • Mothrog, on 10/10/2007, -11/+6That's not science, it's trivia.
      • Unnis, on 10/10/2007, -2/+3Calvin has a response to this: http://picayune.uclick.com/comics/ch/1994/ch940127 ...
        Knowing the year when a person landed on the moon is considered trivia (and why stop at the year when you can memorize the whole date) - and it is also easily researchable in the Internet age.
      • throop77, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Knowing the exact date is trivia... but, most of the kids didn't even know we landed on the moon.
    • Error601, on 10/10/2007, -1/+6No, it's clearly not science. You know absolutely nothing about how anything works or how to solve a problem by memorizing a date.
    • Intangible360, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1As scientists it is very important to look back at where our discipline came from, where we went wrong and why we are doing what we're doing today. I know that in my History of Biology class we do not have to memorize any dates, and we frequently discuss the philosophy of science as well.
    • navster15, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5Fair enough, the year of the moon landing is historical trivia. However, what is shocking is that some students in that article didn't even know about that it happened. Even more shocking, some students were actively denying that it actually happened. If that isn't a failure of public schools, I don't know what is.
    • Error601, on 10/10/2007, -4/+2Here comment was "parents were probably moon-landing-hoaxers"

      Which makes her an ignorant stereotyper.
      • tsmithkc, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2So it's ignorant to question something that's patently absurd? Please allow me to introduce you to the invisible dragon in my garage...
    • Seidoger, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1This is science! I learned about all the American's, Russian's and Canadian's space programs in this science class I had in HS. It's in astronomy. Of course there is the WHEN, but there is all the fact that they did it because of science and physics.

      Not counting the fact that in any science museum you'll go to, they'll have a section on space (and as matter of fact I just visited one today and they did have the moon landing, duh.)
  • vault, on 10/10/2007, -10/+41Did a mom write this, or a guy named Tony did? Where does it say mom?
  • swordedge, on 10/10/2007, -4/+49Standing Ovation!


    • getsk3wled, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2Seconded!!
    • swordedge, on 10/10/2007, -2/+6I decided to date myself. I could not answer the man on the moon question after first grade. It hadn't happened yet!!!!!! (it did when I was nine, we were all glued to the TV)
  • str3ama, on 10/10/2007, -26/+66here's why I'd advise against this:
    In my last year of University I had to spent some time at the Zoo (animal behavioural studies), and while I was there just sitting and recording notes on whichever animal I was observing that day, I'd see endless parents toting their children around the Zoo. Being curious about the animals, the children would ask their parents questions about the animals, like "Why is the flamingo pink? and the parents not having any knowledge on this would still answer with some of the most ridiculous answers (in this case "because flamingos are only women, the males are peacocks" -actual answer from a parent).
    • PoeticExplosion, on 10/10/2007, -3/+29Well, TFA is about a scientist, but even non-scientist parents can buy some curriculum.
      • pintomp3, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3what about other subjects?
        • notthemama, on 10/10/2007, -2/+2According to the article, the author is only homeschooling Science, not other subjects.
          But home schooling curriculum is available. There's a whole industry for it.
    • usefuljenkins, on 10/10/2007, -13/+6you'd advise against it because flamingos are pink?
      • Goombellaofgoom, on 10/10/2007, -0/+8Flamingos are pink because they eat certain shrimp and shellfish that have natural chemicals in them; which turns their feathers pink. Male flamingos are pink just like females.

        If you don't know something, tell your kid so, then make it a lesson to go find out together. Many zoos have signs and displays near the exhibits explaining stuff like this, so go together and read them. This both teaches kids interesting things about the animals, and helps learn them that "I don't know" doesn't have to be the final answer to anything.
        And along the way you just might learn something neat too.
    • ragingradish, on 10/13/2007, -3/+50Just because you've observed morons in their natural state does not automatically mean that a certain blogger/writer is not qualified to teach a given body of material.
    • sarazen, on 10/10/2007, -1/+25For someone apparently working in the sciences that is quite a rush to judgment based on anecdotal evidence. If you are going to suggest that people follow your advice you should at least back it up with some real evidence. In your next 'study' I suggest that you include some genuine homeschoolers, and as you eavesdrop, don't forget to control your results for annoyed, or joking parents.
      • str3ama, on 10/10/2007, -2/+4you missed my point, it wasn't to say that one is better then the other but rather that it takes a certain level of training or learning to be a teacher. The majority of parents while I'm sure have their own skills and fields of interest, are not best suited for teaching because they will feel compelled to give a response regardless of how incorrect or inaccurate it - just so that they can give an answer.

        The parents that I mentioned are not idiots, they were trying to give an answer for a question that they themselves were not sure about. Because theirs a familial or personal bond between the child and parent, there's a different structure to home-schooling then their is with conventional schooling (teacher to student). The biggest different of course is the social aspect. The other aspect is that not all parents fields of interests will fall in science or other "scholarly" topics, which is why some parents 'fudge' facts to their children, it allows them to give the child an answer while still appearing as learned.
        • RobotBuddha, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5"The parents that I mentioned are not idiots, they were trying to give an answer for a question that they themselves were not sure about."

          Their answer should have been "I don't know, let's find out!". I've had the same experiences from teachers growing up. Nobody is going to have all the answers to a childs questions at hand, and the absolute worst thing you can do is to lie to them and then reinforce the idea that learning is supposed to stop at a certain age.
        • sarazen, on 10/10/2007, -1/+7There are several problems with this kind of conjecture. 1. Unless you quizzed the parents afterward, you have no idea what their intent was so I don't know how you can say with certainty that the parents were indeed trying to provide good answers and failing miserably. 2. You are projecting motivations onto these same people. I don't know where you get the idea that all parents will just give an answer just because they feel they must. 3. You go on to make presumptions about everything from the state of the parent child bond, to socialization, to the possible knowledge areas of these people.

          You have obviously developed a negative impression of homeschooling from your experiences. You are entitled to your opinion and that is fine, but you are asking everyone to follow your advice based solely on your highly non-scientifically derived judgment call and that is not fine. You really can't judge how effective homeschooling may be based on this kind of snapshot. Even if I pretend that you are right and these parents are giving false answers out of a sense of pressure to provide an answer, here is another possible interpretation of these results. These people you were watching may assume that any mistake in information they give will be corrected later by teachers in school, therefore their motivation to make sure their answers are correct is greatly diminished because there seems to be no consequence to providing falsehoods. However when a parent takes on the full responsibility for the education of they children they have a much higher motivation to make sure the information they provide to their children is accurate and current. If anything I would say that your afternoon is a terrific example of how the modern school system has even begun to interfere with how parents relate to their children.
        • notthemama, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2In addition to sarazen's reply, I just want to add that most homeschooling parents don't rely on their own personal knowledge to teach a subject. They use teaching materials for homeschooling parents. So in that regard it's somewhat similar to having a teacher except that the teacher is going to care and can focus on only a few students rather than 20, 30, or 60. That focus makes a huge difference. It means that when the child doesn't understand the material, the parent will be able to see it and help him until he does, without worrying about whether the student is handling the notebook organization test correctly or not.
    • aerogant, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3Where do you think those parents were educated? Maybe in home schooling their children they'll actually read and learn themselves?
    • stargatesteve, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4and how old was the kid? If he was > 3, that would be a bad answer.

      And I remember being told that Ladybugs were called that because "Sirbug" didn't sound very nice. That was in kindergarden. The next year I was homeschooled for unrelated reasons. I continued to be homeschooled for the next 11 years. (I graduated a year early) I'm now a freshman at college, and tutoring a few sophomores and juniors in computer science and math. This was made possible because I was homechooled.
      • natedouglas, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3I personally don't believe there's any such thing as a "good" answer that isn't the truth or our best idea of the truth. If the explanation for "why is the sky blue?" is too much for their little brains to handle, don't tell them that it's because it is the reflection of the oceans or whatever. Tell them the truth, as simply as possible, and if they don't grasp it, take whatever part they don't explain and try to break that down. Even if they don't learn it, can't remember it, can't understand it, or stopped caring, you've still been honest, informative, and not answered with a thought-terminating cliché like "because God said so." The truth or an honest attempt is all that matters. If I hear another person answer a "why?" with "Because," I'll shoot 'em. Unless they're on Digg, in which case I'll just bury them.
    • Kzoo, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0I do agree that many, -many-, MANY zoo visitors are complete idiots. I've spent between 4 and 50 hours a week working at the central Florida zoo (both volunteer and paid) for the last 6 years. I have parents telling me that it doesn't matter if I tell their kid the screech owl I'm holding is full grown (although to a younger kid I'll say "it's as big as it's going to get") "because they don't understand that it's not a baby". Or that I shouldn't bother to tell a kid what an animal on a leash (such as our rhinoceros iguana...) actually is "because everything is doggy or kitty to them." The HELL they don't understand. Why the **** did you bring them to a zoo if you didn't want them to learn about animals?
      On the other hand, the writer is a trained scientist. S/he notes that s/he and the son talk regularly about what science is and such. Clearly this person is able to explain in a way the kid understands. So what's the problem? But more than that, you don't have to be a trained scientist to understand what your kid is learning. If you're willing to make the effort to know what you're talking about (which immediately rules out the zoo idiots, obviously), then there's no problem.
      Indeed, if you have a curriculum guideline and look up recent information (for science anyway, other subjects may not require this as much; side note -- high school biology isn't worth much... I spent a lot of time when I got to college relearning because the lower schools are still teaching things that were wrong 10, 15, 20 years ago) then there's no issue, trained or not.
  • Obligation, on 10/10/2007, -1/+28I think this is great for the kid. Usually I'm skeptical about how home schooling effects kids, but this is more like he has a smaller class with a better teacher. I feel bad for the rest of the kids that were in his class.
    • PoeticExplosion, on 10/10/2007, -4/+32I've been homeschooled all my life, and I can guarantee that I learned more than almost anyone in the local public school. If nothing else, the desire to learn was never beaten out of me by stupidity like notebook organization rules.
      • Spartycus, on 10/10/2007, -2/+11My folks had to supliment my edcucation so that I actually managed to learn in public school. Granted, at the time I wasn't all that appreciative of the effort, but after my first semester of college I was thanking them. Public schools, with rare exceptions, are a complete disaster.
        • tHePeOPle, on 10/10/2007, -1/+12That's because public schools are (quite literally) designed to churn out middle class worker cogs to fill up the factories with drones who don't complain much.
    • matts009, on 10/10/2007, -1/+18I too have been homeschooled from 1st grade through high school, and agree with Poetic's comments. I love to learn.
    • Lewie, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5Not that I disagree with you guys, I will probably homeschool my kids at least in science and math, but I've seen some bad homeschooling. I know 3 sisters from highschool that were taught by their ultra-religious mother. Their science books were about Creationism - I read one and was horrified! I know another that pays people to do his homework. I believe public schooling is best for our country, it just needs a major overhaul.
      • natedouglas, on 10/10/2007, -2/+3It needs an overhaul so immense that we would not recognize the end product. My wife received her Bachelor's in Education. It was fantastic because they taught her the best ways to teach. They also taught her how she *would* teach. The two ways were completely, irreconcilably different.

        If you care about your kids, and are even remotely capable of affording it, home-school or alternative-school them. I can't think of a single good thing that happened to me in twelve years of public schooling, and sometimes I feel like every single thing I know comes from Wikipedia or a book I read on my own time.
      • groceryheist, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1digg me down, replied to wrong comment
    • fishbert, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4affects kids... not effects kids

      (only because this is a story about education)
    • groceryheist, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1I was home schooled from first to 11th grade. My Mom had a masters in English education from U.C Berkley so she was more than qualified. All I did was read *everything* and write papers from 5th grade on. For Science I mostly studied textbooks, when I did a lab I went crazy. In 6th grade I spent two weeks making circuits with batteries and tin foil. I was actually *experimenting* which is nothing like my experience in public school AP science classes. You are given instructions on what to do. You get 1 hour to do it in. And everybody just fudges their numbers so they get the right answer. Most kids spend time on the lab report than they do on the experiment. Science seems dumb to kids because they don't have the chance to explore science. They are just force fed information and learn to calculate different *****.
  • navitatl, on 10/10/2007, -6/+32The Colorado public school system is abominable. I should know... I dropped out of it just a few years back. Never regretted it for a moment.
    • UtopiaInTheSky, on 10/10/2007, -19/+13So you dropped out because it was too hard? I don't see your logic. If it's so easy, just finish it and get your diploma. You're not proving any points by dropping out of school because you think it's too easy.
      • zybch, on 10/10/2007, -1/+26"abominable" does NOT mean "too hard" you stupid moron (or should that be 'moran')!
        • tHePeOPle, on 10/10/2007, -2/+18He probably went to public school. Don't be too hard on him.
        • ChromaVita, on 10/10/2007, -3/+4"He probably went to public school. Don't be too hard on him."
          Yea, he'll totally shank your ass.
      • navitatl, on 10/10/2007, -3/+12I never said anything about hard or easy. I dropped out because it was a goddamn waste of time.

        See Reponere's comment below mine. I felt like him, only I got out.
        • notthemama, on 10/10/2007, -2/+4I totally agree. My sister dropped out for similar reasons and just got her ged instead. I used to tease her that it was her Good Enough Degree.
          Gods. I wish I'd gone for a GED when I was 16 or so. Stupid highschool was nothing more than a babysitting center for most people, and this was a predominantly white suburb in a good neighborhood too.
    • ZellD, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3The Colorado public school system is a rather broad category. You have some of the best schools in the nation and some of the worst.

      I agree, dropping out can be good for some people. Though, a few years is hardly enough time to decide whether dropping out was a good idea.
    • TeamoSupremo, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1I graduated from the Denver Public School system just fine. Teachers did care and still do. Now things are just too political that now they teach just for the sake of passing the CSATs, which thankfully I graduated before this program effected me.
  • Reponere, on 10/10/2007, -4/+38I remember the horrors of going from a home education to the public high school in Colorado. It's bad enough that I often try to put it out of memory, like a really bad dream. Most of the teachers (especially the chemistry teacher for some reason) couldn't teach squat. They couldn't control the student body, and the students themselves wouldn't even try to apply themselves.

    I went from believing I was a decent student who got good grades, to feeling like a prisoner, always depressed, doing my time and just wanting a way out. But that's just my POV on colorado public education.
    • Narrator, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3Yeah that's how I felt in High School. I took the easiest classes, got straight As and goofed off. Then I got to college and realized that nobody had taught me how to write properly. I then read a bunch of how to grammar books and learned what I should have learned in high school.
  • Lax32, on 10/13/2007, -55/+3Im sorry, but I think she is stupid. She is using her kids to prove a point. They are going to be the joke of the school and are going to be ridiculed for it until they graduate highschool.

    Yeah, you might not agree with how they teach science, but you are hurting your kid by homeschooling them to prove a point, however correct that point might be. Its a science class, and wrong or not, it alone isnt worth pulling your kid from school.
    • Noiremorte, on 10/10/2007, -1/+18Sure it is. the mother is taking it upon herself to teach the children what they SHOULD be learning in school. She's taking the initiative to better educate her son and his friends. How is that wrong?
      • notthemama, on 10/10/2007, -2/+0*****. Sorry, I meant to upmod you and hit downmod by mistake. Dang it. Why can't I undo that?
    • SonicRush, on 10/10/2007, -1/+11Read the friggin article...
    • sarazen, on 10/10/2007, -0/+19Well she would be a fool to follow your advice. Being the butt of some jokes in high school lasts at most a few years. Being ignorant can last a lifetime.
    • Spartycus, on 10/10/2007, -1/+9I have to disagree. I say this as a business major who always thought I just "didn't get math and science" but later took a greater interest when I got older and had the opportunity to learn from decent teachers. She might be trying to prove a point, but shes also acting to improve the education of the few kids she can. A parents' only real alternative is to homeschool his/her kids to promote change. If enough families had the courage to take this level of drastic action I bet we'd see some serious change in our public schools.
    • Bamborzled, on 10/10/2007, -0/+8If your boss came to you and said: "You've got excellent work habits, you get every project done, and you're very competent at your job, but you don't organize your office computer well enough, so I have to fire you", would you be pissed?

      (the analogy isn't perfect, but you get what I'm talking about)
    • SquigglyP, on 10/10/2007, -1/+8Yes, because I know I'd rather be well loved in Jr. High than smart. ***** smart, what's that gonna get me besides an interesting and challenging and likely high paying job, house, car, the hand of a lovely intelligent woman and later social status and a sense of worth. ***** all that, pass me the beer bong.
    • getsk3wled, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5what point? do you think the school is listening, or even cares? they DON'T. it's the same in texas, as long as we pass teh TAKS (texas assessment of knowledge and skills) they're happy.
      she's making sure her kids get an education, and don't end up poor.
      screw you, for even saying stuff like that.
  • carl25, on 10/10/2007, -3/+10680% of the grade is a ***** book check ? So you could just have an organized book for the school year and you basically come out with a B. What the hell. Kudos to the mom
  • petebert, on 10/10/2007, -2/+4I read your story, oh great the moral is about to happen... oh now I'm sad
  • MacSawD, on 10/10/2007, -1/+29OMG, this is just like my 11th grade Chemistry teacher!
    Damn you Ms. Stamper!
  • yomamaisfat, on 10/10/2007, -7/+21The education system will continue to suck until teacher salaries are raised above those of factory workers with GED's. It is a tough job (both my parents teach) that is vastly unappreciated.
    • onewingedangel9, on 10/10/2007, -1/+18Very true. Right now they are treated more like babysitters.
    • cankillar, on 10/10/2007, -10/+1Well, here's the problem:
      If you were told being a teacher pulls you down 60K a year, would you teach for knowledge? Or would you teach for the money? Keeping salaries low filters out the people working for the money and instead keeps the people who love teaching inside the field.
      Yes, this article illustrates a terrible school _system_, and a terrible teacher, and not everyone is great at what they love to do.
      : But this school district needs a major overhaul on quality.
      • pintomp3, on 10/10/2007, -0/+14keeping salaries low insures quality teachers? try applying that logic to any other job.
        • notthemama, on 10/10/2007, -2/+0Setting salaries high isn't the answer either. Any job in the private sector, the incompetents who can't handle the work get fired, and if the customers don't like the product, they can buy from another company instead.
      • LogicAJV, on 10/10/2007, -0/+6In reality paying teachers more, will stop a highly intelligent person from having to choose between being a scientist or an educator. I don't care how motivated a teacher is, if they just don't know how to teach. The best motivation for any job is being paid what you feel your job is worth.
      • Anevilweasel, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5Omg I can't believe you said that...stupidity. No, not paying teachers enough STOPS a lot of people who would be great teachers from even looking at the field. Instead a few dedicated people are stretched too thin, covering too many students to do any real teaching.
        • notthemama, on 10/10/2007, -3/+0Very true. Vouchers would allow private schools that could pay teachers based on quality rather than the school getting paid on how many students showed up for class each day.
      • SquigglyP, on 10/10/2007, -0/+6um? That is some of the worst logic i've ever ***** heard. I personally find it ironic that the arguments for keeping low-wage public school teachers are, among the exact same group of people arguing, the EXACT SAME REASONS why public health care would never work. it never fails.

        See, offering ***** PAY for what is possibly the single most important job in the entirety of human civilization is the reason the US is widely regarded (and for the most part, is widely demostrated) as the most idiotic of the modern cultures. We spend more money every year on weapons than we do on education.

        Offering more money for a position will get you a lot of people attempting to get hired as teachers just for the money, yes. But you can always turn down the people who aren't qualified to teach. There are plenty of people who are qualified to teach - my mother for example - who simply won't put themselves through the wringer for less than 30K a year. You try living in a large city with a car payment mortgage and a couple of kids on 30K a year. Not really that easy. Nope, BEING A SECRETARY pays more. Better benefits, too.
        • notthemama, on 10/10/2007, -3/+0Just to clarify, you believe a private school system with vouchers and paying teachers based on competence would be better than the public system we have now?
          • SquigglyP, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Private schools? Voucher systems? no. Public education system works. It used to work really well here. if you're trying to link this to my support for Ron Paul in other comments, then you should be aware that the eventual dissolving of the department of education will not remove the public school system. That department was only created fairly recently, and public schools existed long before it was around. The department of education is effectively destroying the education system here by trying to regulate and measure students, and schools are funded now based on their population, city, and test scores. Schools not scoring well get lower funding. It creates a paradoxical situation... the school has less means with which to teach and as a result the students do worse. The solution on the federal level thus far has been to lower standards for the students. It's the overemphasis on testing that is killing our education system.

            So, no, i don't believe that a Private school system or vouchers are the answer. Rather, i believe that lowering our federal costs elsewhere and putting that cash into the school system is what is needed. Pay the teachers. Supply the schools. And personally, i'd like to see our school system take more of an eastern approach - schooling year-round without a 3 month long summer break, but broken into 4 smaller breaks in between the semesters. This would keep the students 'in the routine' for the most part, and teachers could also assign projects to be done over the break. Not HUGE assignments, but some little thing that students would have to research and do on their own. Or give them a reading assignment. It would allow the teachers to get some needed rest as well, since the only breaks they normally ever get are christmas and summer, but the summer is really not a break, as most of them need to take another job during that period to make ends meet.

            There's not really a short answer on how to fix the education system. i think the flaw in most politics here is that both sides will just bitch and bitch and bitch about something endlessly, then finally one side will get their way, and that way is THE WAY. The Department of Education was created, and from teh start was obviously not going to work out well. Unfortunately, instead of just removing it, they keep trying to fix it. They do this with a LOT of the programs and stuff that aren't work due to fundamental flaws in teh nature of the program, and yet they fail to see that or something, and so they embark on an endless and costly 'fix it' spree trying random solutions that might possibly work, but probably wont. The Voucher system you have mentioned is one such solution. There have been other solutions on how to get funding properly managed. But they'd rather we all argue over which of their little patches might work than really question the idea of teh program itself. What exactly is it that the Department of Education is supposed to do? Some might say that it's intention is actually to make people more dumb and passive. But then, so far that's really the only thing they've accomplished with it, so it may not be as paranoid as it sounds.
    • eean, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Factory workers are gradually losing their jobs, the problem will solve itself. ;)

      Really some of my best teachers did some other profession before teaching, raising salaries and actively attracting these "second career teachers" would be a good idea.
    • notthemama, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5The salaries aren't the primary problem. The primary problem is that there's very little accountability. Sorry, but raising the teachers salaries and that won't mean the teachers will suddenly stop making the notebook organization 80% of the grade.
      Firing the teachers that obviously can't teach teach the subject and instead resort to using such tactics WILL fix the problem.
      Throwing more money into a screwed up school system isn't the answer.
      • ZellD, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Its a sort of chicken and the egg problem. If you pay teachers horribly, who often have two or more college degrees, then you are only going to get disintrested and lazy ones. The people who teach because they love teaching will often flock to the few select public schools and often end up at private ones. Many of my favorite teachers growing up transferred to private highschools and universities.
      • MaximusD, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1You can't just fire people with out an attractive field of candidates waiting to fill the positions. Better salaries will equal better teachers. It's very straightforward.
    • Yarnage, on 10/13/2007, -5/+3Teachers are not underpaid. The average teacher, last I heard, made about $40k-$48k a year. While there are some teachers that make less than that... well, there are some workers in other fields who make elss than that too.

      I don't see why teachers always have this big "we're underpaid!" mentallity when they only work 9 months out of the year and still get paid pretty well. Depending on what school you're teaching at, some will give them even more money automatically if they just take certain college courses and the more education a teacher has, the more money they can make that way.

      Seriously, I almost became a cop before and while I know teachers have to go through crap, cops usually get paid worse than teachers and have to put up with quite a lot more crap.

      The great thing about being in the United States is that you can work any kind of job you want. If it doesn't pay as much as you want it... well tough *****. That's life. If you need more money, then you get another job. Not all of us get to do what we want to do, then complain and demand more money to make the job fit our ideal position.
      • natedouglas, on 10/13/2007, -1/+5Teachers have this big "we're underpaid!" mentality because they have an immensely important job and don't get paid ***** to do it.
      • ZellD, on 10/13/2007, -1/+7The salary when compared to their education is quite low. Also, while they work 9 months of the year the good ones often put in 12+ hours a day, not including weekend grading...
    • RunawayElf, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5As a factory worker myself I take great offense to this comment. Do you suggest that we do not work our asses off? I'm not sure I follow you. Perhaps both are underpaid? You do the same thankless job for 15 years (or more) and then comment.

      Personally, I think teachers AND factory workers work their asses off. And frankly, both require just about the same educational levels these days. Insult the requirements for becoming a teacher, sure. That's the government. But try not to insult other people's choice of work. Teachers and factory workers both know what they are going to be making before they take their jobs.
    • phatt-matt, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3Schools cannot reward good teachers because of the unions. Bad teachers make just as much as good teachers. Schools should be allowed to pay people what they are worth based on their work, not some arbitrary rule established by unions.
    • Mark7r0n, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2You are spot-on. By keeping the pay so low the people who would make the best teachers go into other professions. So you are stuck with this dichotomy of place-holding, bump-on-a-log teachers who are there to collect their paycheck vs. passionate, world-class educators who are there because they love it.
  • nicksauce, on 10/10/2007, -1/+17Is it like that everywhere in the US? Seriously, I'm curious. My experience from the Canadian school system was nothing like this.
    • UtopiaInTheSky, on 10/10/2007, -8/+2Hi, I live in Florida, my experience was nothing like what was written in the article. Though, I was smart, and I took honors classes once I entered middle school (12 years old, or so). Regular classes might have these problems. But if your child has enough intelligence to prove he/she has the opportunity to put an education to good use, the Honors/AP system can be more than useful. If your child is simply "mediocre" and takes the regular classes, I don't see how you're in any position to complain about the quality of education. That's just my take on the situation... I don't know how other states work, though.
      • onewingedangel9, on 10/10/2007, -1/+9When I was in public school, that tended to be the case. Honors classes, while not especially "hard", actually did work. The "regular" classes were just there to babysit the rest of the kids.
      • notthemama, on 10/10/2007, -1/+0In my school years, honors classes weren't available until high school. For many kids that got bored out of their skulls before than point, it was too late.
        The level of "honors" math class in middle school had the small group of smart math kids sitting around in a circle and wrapping colored threads aren't pins to see "pretty geometical shapes" for half the regular math period.
      • TheInimitable, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1What the *****? So if you take the regular classes you don't deserve a quality education? AP classes are designed to go above and beyond expectations, not ***** meet them.
    • Okari, on 10/10/2007, -1/+6Yeah, it's pretty much the same everywhere. I was also schooled in Fl up until freshmen year of High School. The notebook checks weren't the majority of my grade, but it was a relatively big part of it for some classes. I was lucky enough to get quite a few caring teachers, but most couldn't care less about you. I had one class where the teacher switched every 4 months and by the end the teacher at the time just sat at the computer playing crappy songs and surfing the net while we did nothing. I was at a point where I just didn't care to go anymore and became depressed. Once I went home schooled though, the depression disappeared immediately. And I had time to finally study what would actually help me in life and not just random facts.
    • Texas04, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3http://youtube.com/watch?v=wIC-1PLIsEw

      There is a video detailing Standardized testing and its effects on schools, That story is on Texas but it is pretty much the same...

      • FortyCaliber, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3No it's not. I went to school in Montgomery County, MD... My High School was ranked in the top 500 in the country my graduation year... before the Leave Every Child Behind Act. I work at a high school in CA now and I have a Student Aide who only knew 3 states: Texas, Florida, and California. She had no idea where anything else was. I knew all 50 states by the time I was out of Elementary School.

        So, no, That is nothing like the rest of the country.
    • NoBlueSpoon, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2Went to private school in Canada, I'm glad and greatfull I didn't go to a crappy public school, especially in the USA.
      • ZellD, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0Yes, its nice to be rich. The USA has nice private schools too. Thankfully, unlike many other countries, you can go to public school in the USA and get into a decent college. The same can't be said for Japan or England, though I'll admit I don't know about Canada.
      • kinseyincanada, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1i went to public school in canada and it isnt nearly as bad as the states seem to be, but if i had my own children and i could afford it i would send them to a private school.
      • mayara13, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0My education at a private school sucked, and my education at a public school, in the states, was great. It's quite inaccurate to take a couple anecdotes and generalize to that degree, especially when talking about problems that do relate strongly to the teacher in question (such as the overemphasis on organization over content in a middle school level science class).
    • Feep, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Another Florida-educated public school boy here. There was the occasional jackass, but for the most part, I had kind, intelligent, and caring teachers throughout middle and high school. However, the area was Boca Raton, a city noted for its way-above-average general income. I was lucky, but the quality of PUBLIC education should not at all be dependent on the relative wealth of the area. We Americans need to take some notes from our brethren in the North.
    • Yarnage, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3No teacher in my high school really cared about organization... but then again, everyone made fun of the place I grew up in as a white-trash/black-thug area (not to sound racist but that's how I always hear it described) so I don't think it would have worked out.

      Even in college it can be this bad. I had a college professor in a high level technical writing class tell us on the first day that.... HE CAN'T SPELL! wtf? I also had a computer teacher who had to constantly be corrected and would go on and on about things he had no clue about. Very frustrating considering that I paid for the course.
    • ChromaVita, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2OK so i'm like the 7th FL public school student (why are there so many of us here?) and I just got out of high school. Yes, most of the teachers are pretty nice, and caring, but they don't always teach the subject that well. The students make it a lot harder on the teachers, and it's tough for the teachers to continue to want to teach when none of the kids want to learn. I didn't learn a whole lot except from a few great teachers. Fortunately college isn't too big of a jump curriculum-wise... Community college FTW?
    • Snyz, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2I would say that the school system as a whole isn't this bad since schools are a state thing but this could start to become the norm. I know my education in Iowa wasn't nearly as bad as this.
      • mayara13, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0My education in Colorado wasn't either, or at least after I stopped going to a private school. (And yes, that's right -- my private school education was much more like described than my public school education.)
    • addiktion, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1I don't think it will ever change until you prevent the federal government the control to regulate the curriculum. It should be handled by the state. At least then you know if the education system is a joke then you can try a different state, or better yet I hear some private schools are decent but pricey of course.

      I'm still debating on whether or not to home school my future kids. It's hard work but when I look back on my high school education it just seemed so pointless. I remember when I got my first C. Sadly it was for the exact same reason as this story. I didn't fill out my daily Math planner even though I aced all my tests and assignments. From then on I shoveled the school systems crap and got out a year early with more credits and higher grades then most of my school could achieve as a senior. Thank you Jesus!
    • mayara13, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0My experience in Colorado was not like that. However, that was before the CSAP and "No Child Left Behind". And I have had some individual teachers a bit like that when I was younger -- I think it has more to do with elementary education programs at college than the school systems themselves.
    • bitORlogic, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0Schools vary greatly. Some states are far worse than others, but there is always a great deal of variation within a state as well. In general, poorer areas have worse schools, but there isn't a 1:1 correlation between economics and education. Sometimes a school in a rich area will be terrible while one in a modest area will be great. Getting a good education in the US public school system is like hitting the jackpot at the casino. It happens from time to time, but there are more losers than winners; and it's always a crapshoot.
    • wjanoch, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0Kalispell Montana has good schools. I grew up here and now have 2 children in school here too. They started school in Sherman Oaks California, then a really small town in OH, then two small towns in south west Montana, and now they're in 3rd and 2and grades in Kalispell.

      I'd say the single biggest factor in getting a good education is teacher enthusiasm for student comprehension.

      The bigger picture is community. Stupid is, stupid does. I'm not sure, but it seems to me the towns where I've encountered the dumbest kids were also the towns where I encountered the dumbest adults. The teachers of an area are almost always locals.

      A caring community will higher a good school principal and then will hold him accountable for the performance of the teachers and students.

      Wm
  • HunterTV, on 10/10/2007, -4/+17We don't need no education...
    • zybch, on 10/10/2007, -3/+1Certainly not the kind the story lists anyway, however the author of that song sure did need a bit more grammar education.
      • natedouglas, on 10/10/2007, -0/+6The double negative was intentional, a plea for genuine education. Roger Waters FTW.

        I've argued about this with my mother (and other English teachers) before. Even though the theoretical foundations of their job entail research into language and how it affects us, and how geniuses throughout the ages have used it to express complicated ideas in an effective way, I still have to hear ***** like this and "NEVER EVER EVER USE PASSIVE VOICE!"

        Prescriptive language in an essay is one thing. In every form of literature, though, prescriptive accuracy must take a backseat to the intended message and verisimilitude. Can you imagine watching Deliverance and having the hick say to Jon Voigt, "You have an attractive mouth" instead of "Ya shur gotta purty mouf, boy"? And would William S. Burroughs' Naked Lunch be even remotely artistic without its near-annihilation of grammar? Huckleberry Finn?

        /rant brought on by years of dealing with pedants
    • iJump, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2...We don't need no thoughts controlled...
      http://www.rhapsody.com/goto?rcid=tra.13819409&var ...
  • Revwilkinson, on 10/10/2007, -1/+18Crap like this is why I despised the public education system. It tries to make underwhelming minds average while leaving the truly intelligent kids to basically fend for themselves.
    • iDMG, on 10/10/2007, -0/+15I agree, school is nothing more than diligence and organization, with 10% of it being actual material and 90% the same ***** we learned a million times already
      • Narrator, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5Speaking of the "Same ***** we learned a million times already". I was required to read "Black Boy" by Richard Wright in 6th Grade. Again my Freshman year of high school, again my junior year of high school (at a different school) and finally again at college.
        • natedouglas, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1You had to read Wright in sixth grade? Holy *****! Our schools are better than I thought :-)
          Seriously though, I know exactly what you mean. If I had a nickel for every time I read Julius Caesar or Huckleberry Finn, I'd have a decent number of nickels. What infuriates me is that there is a bottomless pool of fascinating literature out there, and we keep reading the same ***** over and over and over again.
  • TheHighPrivate, on 10/10/2007, -1/+23The system is broken, most people just don't realize it yet. My classmates in my American State and Local Government class were outraged when I stated that the current form of public education should be abolished...
    • Lewie, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2Yes, it's current form is getting us further and further behind the rest of the world. I do believe we should have public education, but it needs a major overhaul.
    • Lewie, on 10/10/2007, -6/+1Yes, it's current form is getting us further and further behind the rest of the world. I do believe we should have public education, but it needs a major overhaul.
    • wjanoch, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0The problem I see with public schools is actually the public itself. No I'm not a teacher or related to any. The community should care enough about their local schools to get involved and start holding their school principal accountable for the performance of teachers and students.

      Wm
  • Calamier, on 10/10/2007, -42/+3Insert statement about how christians control the public school system...blah blah...i'm atheist...blah blah christians suck...

    Boy, i'm really getting tired of Digg.
    • stonr2, on 10/10/2007, -1/+0statement inserted below...
    • onewingedangel9, on 10/10/2007, -0/+8If you read the featured article you would know it has NOTHING to do with Christianity.
    • SSCrow, on 10/10/2007, -0/+9Wow. you obviously didn't read the article.
      Good job.
    • SquigglyP, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3oh and christians suck. There, now you have something to bury.
    • Lewie, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5Please leave Digg forever.
    • DoobieWheel, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3I dont see any mention of the school being crap because it has to accomodate religions. He said the school is crap because its a bueracractic mess
  • solarwind24, on 10/10/2007, -27/+5I bet that teacher was christian...
    • onewingedangel9, on 10/10/2007, -1/+6I'm not religious, but seriously, not all Christians are fanatics. I've met plenty of brilliant Christians in my life. Especially for this case, religion has nothing to do with the way the teacher acts. Hey, I bet she was a Pastafarian! It still doesn't make a difference to her having a ***** system for grading and the overall general relaxed standards of public education.
      • zybch, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Not ALL christians have to be. By not standing up and decrying the fanatics however, they are giving their unspoken approval!!
    • MrSarcasm, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1OCHOHO!! UR FANNI!!!! OOHHH.

      Ok, seariously, STFU MrZealot
    • MikeWanDo, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1I bet that plenty of people are christian. It's possible that the parent is christian, that the child is christian, that the principle of the school is christian. How the ***** would it be any different if they were all jewish or all muslim?
  • Qtip42, on 10/10/2007, -16/+3what parents teach their children is just as bad as what they get in public school.

    Let your children decide what they want to believe/not believe.
    • onewingedangel9, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4read the article.
    • Bamborzled, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3"Read the article"? That's a travesty!
    • SquigglyP, on 10/10/2007, -0/+8You're completely ***** right. You know what. I don't think i believe in photosynthesis. It makes no sense at all. I can't sustain myself with dirt and sunlight, how the ***** can plants do it? Nope, i think they must really be secretly eating worms or something. And now that you mention it, I've never personally seen a black hole, so i don't think i believe in those either.

      hey, this is kinda fun.
  • cielo23, on 10/15/2007, -3/+43I'm so glad to read a science article on Digg that doesn't have to do with creation/ evolution bickering.
    • stargatesteve, on 10/10/2007, -0/+6many homeschoolers are conservative Christian creationists.

      There you go.
    • drachemorder, on 10/10/2007, -1/+7I agree. When I saw the title I thought "Oh great, another Christian-bashing article." But it isn't, it has nothing at all to do with the evolution argument, and in fact it's something creationists and evolutionists would generally agree on about the education system.
  • 0zzy, on 10/10/2007, -0/+35Ya, I've been living through "No Child Left Behind". It's true, they spend several months studying for a test so we can pass.

    By 2012, 100% of the students must pass, even the mentally challenged. If the school does not have 100% passing rate, they will be taken over by the federal government. And we all know how well they run local programs!
    • onewingedangel9, on 10/10/2007, -0/+14That's such a ridiculous thing. I remember taking my states standardized test. They really dumbed it down so retarded people COULD pass it. You have to really not pay attention at all in order to fail. Getting 100% of students to pass is a hollow victory of it means lowering the bar instead of improving the methods.
    • Pinhedd, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4Dumbing test and education down results in the dumbing down of the students who have to go through it.
    • urby86, on 10/10/2007, -3/+3International Schools FTW!
  • Tanishh, on 10/10/2007, -1/+8 Every so often during an assembly or some such thing our administrators/principal/etc. will tell us that we're in one of the top high schools in the country. I never thought out high school was anything special, but after hearing stuff like this I see that we're about where schools should be and are "among the top" because most schools apparently suck ass.
    • awakenDeepBlue, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1agreed. My high school, Fairport High School, was also one of the top high schools and I had a wonderful experience.
  • Victorface, on 10/10/2007, -0/+16My old chemistry teacher started a revolution by abolishing practices of people like that notebook checking teacher and based grades completely off of understanding. Long live Mr. Tom Dooner.
  • hiphoc, on 10/10/2007, -5/+23http://www.deliberatedumbingdown.com/
    Charlotte Thomson Iserbyt was a top official at the Department of Education. She wrote a book exposing how the whole purpose of the Department of Education is to dumb down the kids of america so the elite can have an easily fooled group of sheeple. She thought this is so important that the books is a free download on her site. There is also a movie on bit torrent. Just go to pirate bay and type in Charlotte Thomson Iserbyt. The book is huge and has documents galore that she took out of the department. If you know a teacher or someone in education go burn the video or download the book and get it to them. We got to wake people up to this criminality.
    • Syphon8, on 10/10/2007, -12/+5Automatically dugg down for using the term "sheeple" seriously.
      • hiphoc, on 10/10/2007, -3/+8Automatically dugg down for being sheeple
        • Bamborzled, on 10/10/2007, -4/+3You keep on using that word "sheeple". It's like... you heard it from someone and you kept iterating it in your comments. Like... a sheep!
        • patch6, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4Goats go to hell.
          Ba-a-a-a.
    • LogicAJV, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0I really think this is true. Economics isn't even required to graduate high school. I mean the whole point of work is to make money, and knowing how to be responsible with your money. I mean, we work most of our lives, and it isn't even required to learn how the economy functions. Why shouldn't we be taught how to be good with our money, in high school?
      A lot of high paying jobs are management, and the fundamentals of management are economics.
    • alllie, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1It's been pointed that one of the ways that people can controlled is by limiting education. It was illegal to teach slaves to read. Later separate but equal education for blacks was really separate and very unequal making if difficult for most black to be able to do anything but the most menial jobs. In Afghanistan under the Taliban schooling for girls was non-existent and still is for many girls.

      If a ruling class wants to be able to control the people one of the things they do is limit education.
  • nastronomical, on 10/10/2007, -3/+13And people think education needs more $$$? It needs reform morons!
  • clear9, on 10/10/2007, -2/+22i'm in high school and I wish my parents did that for me

    I am honestly learning nothing

    my Biology class is filled with basic knowledge which most I new before, and its a real shame

    HONESTLY - an idiot could get straight B's and maybe a few A's just because they a