What is Digg?67 Comments
- jerbaker, on 10/12/2007, -10/+81You are a ***** retard. You can't even recognize your own kind. Notice that the post starts with "The myth that Christians ... thought the world was flat"? It's defending Christianity you idiot.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+17Here's the scoop: In biblical times people who thought about it at all thought the earth was flat with a massive dome above. In late medieval times the few who thought about it at all generally thought it was round, thanks to the church's acceptance of Aristotle as the chief authority of science.
Some info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth - atdigg, on 10/12/2007, -7/+19But we have a lot of love, for reason and for people who make use of it. It's up to you if to be part of that category or not.
- ProximaC, on 10/12/2007, -8/+19Kelly, it wasn't exclusive to Christians, but the church at the time branded anyone who disagreed with it as a heretic and burned a few of them to death. The church at that time actively suppressed scientific discovery or anything that challenged their view of the world. So the belief in a flat Earth and it's long dominance in thought IS directly tied to the church and it's practices at that time.
- kelly, on 10/12/2007, -4/+13Ramen, In the Bible, the word translated "corners," is the Hebrew word, KANAPH. Kanaph is translated in a variety of ways. However, it generally means extremity.
It is translated "borders" in Numbers 15:38. In Ezekiel 7:2 it is translated "four corners" and again in Isaiah 11:12 "four corners." Job 37:3 and 38:13 as "ends."
The Greek equivalent in Revelation 7:1 is gonia. The Greek meaning is perhaps more closely related to our modern divisions known as quadrants. Gonia literally means angles, or divisions. It is customary to divide a map into quadrants as shown by the four directions.
Some have tried to ridicule the Bible to say that it teaches that the earth is square. The Scripture makes it quite clear that the earth is a sphere (Isaiah 40:22).
Some have tried to say there are four knobs, or peaks on a round earth. Regardless of the various ways kanaph is translated, it makes reference to EXTREMITIES.
There are many ways in which God the Holy Spirit could have said corner. Any of the following Hebrew words could have been used:
Pinoh is used in reference to the cornerstone.
Paioh means "a geometric corner"
Ziovyoh means "right angle" or "corner"
Krnouth refers to a projecting corner.
Paamouth - If the Lord wanted to convey the idea of a square, four-cornered earth, the Hebrew word paamouth could have been used. Paamouth means square.
Instead, the Holy Spirit selected the word kanaph, conveying the idea of extremity. - warmonger48, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11cody,
You're telling me that adam and eve's (and noah's) kids had sex with each other to populate the earth?.... - daveddd, on 10/12/2007, -13/+21A "true Christian" explains why the earth is flat.
http://www.truechristian.com/03.html
While I don't agree with his views, he poses a valid argument...*snicker* - kelly, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7ProximaC,
it sounds like you (the same as I do) take issue not with Christianity, but with the Church. It seems that Catholicism has been the greatest problem with more people accepting Christianity solely as a result of stories from many years ago when it was abused its power. The problem was that it was not only an extension of government, for all itents and purposes it WAS the government. It was the judge and jury and all too often they were too quick to make assumptions without actually referencing the book they based their position of power on.
Today, thankfully Catholicism doesn't have the same problems it did in its earlier history.
One thing to point out though... Catholicism is not the representivie of Christianity. The Bible is. If ever you take issue with "the church" make sure that its not speaking in violation of the bible before you take issue with Christianity. - Cameleopard, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9"Why do so many athiests feel the need to force their beliefs on Christians?"
Because reality has an atheist bias? Since atheism is non-belief in invisible, silent, and otherwise unobserved sky creatures there is nothing to push onto others. It's like asking why people who don't believe in alien abductions are always pushing their beliefs on the psychotic. - rationalist, on 10/12/2007, -4/+10The site is a well-known Christian apologetics site, and many of its pseudo-scholarly articles have been widely debunked.
It is surprising to see folks take what is written at face value, even though the claims are largely unsourced, just because it is "on the Internet" and someone dugg it.
Always a good idea to do some independent research when confronted with someone who claims some kind of anti-religious conspiracy among historians to hide "the truth" .
Buried as Inaccurate. - ZombieFlanders, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9dclowd,
All of your points are pretty stereotypical. I'm christian and don't exhibit any of those behaviors. Nor do all of the christians I know (in Chicago). Maybe you should look at some of the things you're saying about christians and see if they apply to your mindset also... - kosmoX, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9To everybody who says that Christians don't use logic or reason: Have you ever read a book by a Christian apologetic? Too often skeptics answer with 'no', which leads one to believe that they don't want to consider an opposing viewpoint. I am not saying that I am right in my beliefs and you are wrong, but at least consider the works of some of the best and brightest on the other side of the fence. A good book for starters is "I Don't Have Enough Faith to be an Atheist" by Norman Geisler and Frank Turek. They use logic and reason, as well as archaeological evidence to support their beliefs. If you aren't willing to see the other view points out there, don't bash those who do. We aren't all blind in our faith.
- kelly, on 10/12/2007, -19/+25jerbaker,
I was referring to the general understanding of the world being flat and it being equated with Christians. It wasn't a viewpoint exclusive to Christians then. The fact that an astronomer showed people otherwise has nothing to do with Christians or a Christian belief system.
Regardless, it doesn't change the fact that diggers are disturbingly untolerant towards Christians. The surprising thing is that most of these individuals don't hold the same animosity towards other religions. Perhaps its because they have a personal convictions towards the one religion that has the most potential to hold them most accountable for things they feel ashamed of.
Whatever the case, I'm sure I'll be dugg down anyways for representing the "other" viewpoint. - ThinkFr33ly, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7Yes, it's primarily a myth that medival europeans (most of which were Christian) thought the world was flat.
They did, however, think the Sun orbited around the Earth... and they were willing to kill people who said otherwise. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -12/+17@anillop
Why do so many athiests feel the need to force their beliefs on Christians? - ZombieFlanders, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6And let me add: I went to a Catholic high school and was taught by a nun that the genesis/creation story was a way to explain the unknown to people who didn't have the level of knowledge about the world that we have today. Also, many of the stories in the bible should be viewed through the lens of human advancement, however the good moral messages are what you should take with you. A nun taught me that.
- ProximaC, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6Honestly, what I take issue to is any organization that says they have ALL the answers, and that anyone who disagrees with their "facts" is bad. Be that christianity, catholicism, mormanism, seventh day adventists, jehova's witnesses, etc. And yes, even atheists fall into this trap. They often tend to blindly refute any religion in deference to their faith in science. When an organization uses control of knowledge to wield power over its believers, or worse yet its rivals, I take issue.
- ProximaC, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5@jerkbaker
I am only equating them in blindness that occurs when a belief becomes zealous.
As for me "badly wishing" they are the same, I do not. I am agnostic and very non-religious. But NOBODY has ALL the answers... not religion, not science. - zeiben, on 10/12/2007, -5/+8"Why should there be any ambiguity if it's divinely inspired?"
Divinely inspired, Mortally inscribed, Idiotically interpreted (by everyone). - hammer66x, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5I think most differs have problems with fundamentalists of any creed. Any place where blind faith is involved anyone who prides theirself on reason because very frustrated when arguing. How can you argue something that cannot be proven logically? The only reason that digg seems to be intolerent towards Christianity is because, hey, it's an english language website and, hey, the US, Canada, Britain, Australia are primarily christian meaning that you're more likely to get a Christian fundamentalist, sympathist, whatever posting here. Oh, plus a person will always focus in on their own beliefs being attacked....
(and so far when you make a reasonable explanation you've been dugg up... :) ) - noodlez, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6http://www.duggmirror.com
- jerbaker, on 10/12/2007, -4/+6"Divinely inspired, Mortally inscribed, Idiotically interpreted (by everyone)."
So what you're saying is that God couldn't even muster the power to get a book published which was understandable by the very people he created? That seems strange doesn't it? - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5@daveddd
This one is even better:
http://objectiveministries.org/kidz/ - hiscity, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3About 2000 years ago (an engineering estimate), St. Paul advised his protégé Timothy as follows...
"O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called: Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee." (1st Timothy 6:20-21)
True science and false science were recognized "in Biblical times."
(Of course that was well before the dark ages....)
As was the futility of arguing with fools, (Proverbs 26:4-5).
Biblically speaking we could go back even further.... (~2600 years ago).
"Children in whom was no blemish, but well favored, and skillful in all wisdom, and cunning in knowledge, and understanding science, and such as had ability in them to stand in the king's palace, and whom they might teach the learning and the tongue of the Chaldeans." (Old Testament, Daniel 1:4)
Biblically speaking, science has it's proper place, as does wisdom, and knowledge, but without love, none of it makes any difference.
-:-:-:-
For any True Christian... don't buy into the divisiveness that's thrown at you. Jesus sent letters through John in the Revelation to a bunch of churches with problems -- about what they were each doing right and what they were each doing wrong. His work is to perfect the church. Of course, we're not perfect. That means there's no reason for me to give up on any person or congregation (of whatever Christian denomination). I already know that most of them are doing some things right and some things wrong.
The anti-christians are going to try to drive a wedge in among the brethren. I like the Proverb...
"Six things, the Lord hates, seven are an abomination to Him: a proud look, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, feet that run swift to mischief, a heart that devises wicked imaginings, a false witness speaking lies, and he that sows discord among brethren."
So, those that try to split us up are doing something that is hateful and disgusting to Christ. He will deal with them in due time -- and in a way that we'll see is loving, even though they are enemies. Of course, He's also correcting us. It's best to "speak the truth in love" to those that are His children (*). If His corrections have never left you awe struck, then just consider His corrections toward Israel and Judah. (For the rest of this, see the latter chapters of the Book of Hebrews) Suffice it to say, don't get caught doing the same thing the anti-christians do.
(* - Christian by faith in Christ contrasted with secular or cultural christians) - Raz75, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Thanks, Sherlock.
- haberman13, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I agree with you Kelly; case in point, last weeks article about reincarnation in a Buddhist context was being raved about by the very people who poo poo the "unprovable" concept of God. I don't mind debate, and skepticism, I believe they are healthy and ultimately lead a person to a more rational conclusion; but to blindly accept reincarnation as "plausible" and completely dismiss the idea of a creator is disingenuous at the least.
Ultimately, what we believe doesn't matter, only what is true matters; note to Christians, you shouldn't proselytize - rather live what you have learned and maybe someone will take notice. - Dimensio, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4"What is really disturbing to me is how Cristian's feel so threatened by science and reason that they have to preach to there children that science and reason is there enemy."
It is not all Christians who hold such views. It is a subset of Christians, a subset of Biblical literalists, who are posessed of incredible ego and arrogance such that they cannot fathom that their beliefs are mistaken. As such, when confronted with science that contradicts a literal interpretation of a Biblical passage, they engage in mental and semantic gymnastics to 'prove' that either the passage really meant what science has recently determined, or -- more frequently -- that the science is somehow wrong, often asserting that there exists a deliberate anti-Christian science agenda. Often it is difficult to tell if these individuals are actually lying or if they are really so delusional that they believe the demonstratably false claims that they make.
But this is a subset of Christians. Not all Christians viciously and dishonestly attack claims that contradict literal interpretations of Biblical passages. - zeiben, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2"So what you're saying is that God couldn't even muster the power to get a book published which was understandable by the very people he created? That seems strange doesn't it?"
I don't think God was interested in publishing. I suspect he wanted everyone to be able to ponder the universe and work collectively to improve the world. He gave us the freedom to think with an open mind, interpret our experiences and discover things for ourselves, or to just make snarky comments on digg. I like to think of holy texts, like the bible, as the wikipedia of the divine, which means they have both their share of brilliance as well as their share of blogspam and rev wars - SLuM, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2WTF does love have to do with anything? It's an emotion in a billion years we won't love, we'll just ***** around for the hell of it :)
- haberman13, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2I would say MOST christians don't feel evenly remotely like how you describe. I am a Christian and completely accept that the earth is millions/billions of years old, light traveling from stars hundreds of thousands of miles away just reaching earth wasn't just created mid-flight! Evolution as we now conceive of the concept I believe is a part of the perfection of creation, without adaptation how could a system be considered perfect? Adaptation is a flexibility exhibited by concepted to change with the surroundings ... the world would be very boring without ANY change.
I accept science for what it is, our best method of testing and verifying a theory. To settle on any one thing as being TRUE without leaving room to modify your viewpoint is foolish. In fact this is the very thing Jesus spoke against, the entrenched religiosity of the time were so blinded to the true meaning of the old testament that they were incapable of accepting the revelation of that knowledge when Jesus spoke of it.
Again, MOST Christians are not representative of what you see in the media or by the flaming maniacs who post on some forums around the net giving the rest of us a bad name. - drlog, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@nazuraki
That is one of the funniest things I have seen in a long time! - fxmcleod, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2@nazuraki
Hell yes it is. The only problem... i dont think that's a joke. - weeeezzll, on 02/06/2008, -0/+1... *blink* ...
- masamunecyrus, on 10/12/2007, -7/+9Actually, anyone who interprets the Bible literally is a dolt. I dislike how so many Christians are so quick to go from straight, literal meaning to symbolism and hidden meanings. The Bible isn't a history book (though it has been written throughout the ages so it's a great reference for some select parts of history, though not many), though many people seem to think it is.
- LordSkippy, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3@warmonger48:
"Why should there be any ambiguity if it's divinely inspired?"
Do you really expect people without the technical knowledge we have today to explain things in our technical terms and written in a language that can be word-for-word translated without ambiguity into English?
You answered your own question with the word "inspired". *IF* we take the stance (for argument sake) that God exists and that he divinely inspired the various people that wrote the different books that make up the bible, we still end up with people writing the bible. And, people are prone to making mistakes and distorting what they were told and/or saw. - ishwarrior, on 10/02/2008, -0/+0You know, Warmonger48, that maps do have four corners...
- dskead, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3
@ underthelinux
Need to read the bible with context in mind. so two points:
1)the hebrew word 'moved' could easily be translated "to waver; by implication, to slip, shake, fall "
If you read other translations of this verse the meaning is clearer than the NASB's
2) the next verse says the heavens will be joyous and the earth will cry out.
Clearly the context is lyrical (this passage is in fact poetry). Unless stars can be happy and the earth has vocal chords (which I don't think anyone believes :)
EDIT: You deleted the comment :P - jellygraph, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2Oh boy, the ID'ers try again with their FUD... must have been inspired
- WITFITS, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2Goodonya, I was just about to post that link when I saw your comment.
- bishop1847, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1No medieval European, except maybe most of the uneducated peasentry, actually believed the earth was flat. The greeks certainly knew it was round, and anyone who's read Ptolemy's Almagest confronts almost immediately a length discussion on why the earth is round. The Almagest was widely read in both the Hellenistic and Arabic world, and was the defacto standard for astronomy until Copernicus.
Dante's Divine Comedy, especially his Paradisium, written over a hundred years before Columbus' voyage, mentions that the earth is a sphere, whose southern hemisphere was purgatory. He also writes that going through the center of the earth would inevitably lead to the Orient.
A medieval European would have a good understanding of the spherical nature of the earth. Sailors used this to their advantage with latitudes, and farmers were always interested in trying to predict their next crop using the Almagest and other writings. - ieddiew, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0The scariest part is, the people who created those sites are serious.. ..
- fxmcleod, on 10/12/2007, -7/+6that^ is a joke thought right?
Edit: yeah it is, nvm - Deadboy42069, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0LoL Christians in the Middle Ages thought the world was flat??
Yea true but Christian is not the only religious thought the world is flat.
Jewish, Catholic, Buddhist, Mormon, etc, many people back in time who never seen their own planet from outer space or fly around in a plane think the world is flat, not just Christian. Did you know that India think the world is on by Elephant's back? Also Did you know Japanese think they're riding on dragon's back and the clouds passed by they think its a smoke from a dragon and the air that blew people down and their land was messed up by strong wind "tycoon" they think dragon was blowing them away. Back in time, these people don't know anything like we do now, and you think Christian did all this stuff? yea right .. what about the rest of the religious thought the world is flat or riding on elephant or dragon's back? I don't know how Christopher Columbus found out the World is round. he prolly look at the moon, it's round, look at the sun, it's round also. maybe the Earth is round, but no 1 believe him, but he's right, but Christopher Columbus is Christian and he knew the world is round. What about the King Louis IX and Jewish and the people in Euro-Asia, They think the world is flat , too!! But they're aren't Christian. They're just a people who think the same as other people who thought the world is flat cuz it's look like it. Right now, You're standing outside. the world look flat but when'you're in a plane or rocket. the world is round. Egyptian thought the world is flat but they build a ***** pyramid cuz they look up in the sky seeing where the stars at so pyramid can point at the star. they don't use a globe. they use a map.. *made out of paper * it's flat, they don't know the world is round, they still think the world is flat.
You know the funniest part is? American think the moon was made out of cheese back in 19 and early 20Th century..strange, isn't it? - warmonger48, on 10/12/2007, -5/+4My point is if "god" told/made/influenced people to write it then, because "he's" infallible, they couldn't make a mistake, otherwise "he" would be fallible. Besides, why doesn't "he" make bibles appear out of thin air, then they would be perfect....
- douglsmith, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1Did anyone actually read the article?
I see lots of name calling here but nearly nothing about the substance of the article. The author simply claims that it was understood that the earth was spherical well before the time of Columbus. In addition, he claims that the whole idea of a battle between science and the church related to the Columbus voyage has was manufactured by Washington Irving.
The article is well-reasearched and the sources of information are document and linked where possible. So how about an intelligent argument of the facts presented? - Dimensio, on 10/12/2007, -6/+5" The Scripture makes it quite clear that the earth is a sphere (Isaiah 40:22)."
A "circle", as referenced in Isaiah 40:22, is not a sphere. The original Hebrew word, chug, most directly translates to "disc". Had the Hebrews intended to describe the world as a sphere, they would have used the word that means "sphere", kadur. They did not. - numinous, on 10/12/2007, -5/+3Most of the "myth" regarding a belief in a flat earth is geared towards the medieval puplace in general, not christians in specific. Dug down; boring, uninformative, lame.
- lordsteve, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1"So what you're saying is that God couldn't even muster the power to get a book published which was understandable by the very people he created? That seems strange doesn't it?"
would you rather have a God who programs every minute detail of our thoughts, movements and actions or a God who gives us free will and the ability to be wrong?
it's not that He can't - He won't - He doesn't want to for our own good. A creation that doesn't have free will is a creation that cannot truely love the Creator. So, if God created us for us to love Him, taking away our free will in order to propogate His own agenda would defeat the purpose. - ukm1728, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1i think you're confusing flat earth with heliocentricity
buried as lame - warmonger48, on 10/12/2007, -8/+5Kelly:
Why should there be any ambiguity if it's divinely inspired? -
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