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474 Comments
- qsucvatz, on 06/30/2009, -1/+244Wave group phase velocity != signal velocity. Misleading bastard.
- nullcodes, on 06/30/2009, -3/+225There's nothing new in the fact that group velocity of radio waves or light or whatever can travel faster than the speed of light.
Let's be clear here, there still isn't a way to utilize what he's talking about to send signals or any kind of information faster than the speed of light. The article tries very hard to cleverly hide that fact in order to gain sensationalism. The author does get a half point for being careful not to directly lie though. - MatzahMan, on 06/30/2009, -8/+179The universe just itself
- phyuk, on 06/30/2009, -13/+173Because ***** YOU Einstein was not subtle enough...
- inactive, on 06/30/2009, -2/+159This article is pure crap. They claim that they made light travel faster than light, and instead of explaining how, they just drop a few sciencey-sounding buzzwords.
- vroom101, on 06/30/2009, -2/+1431. "Unusual Waves" published in the January 2008 issue of "1663 Los Alamos Science and Technology Magazine ("Spotlight" article): http://www.lanl.gov/news/index.php/fuseaction/1663 ... (www.lanl.gov/news/index.php/fuseaction/1663.article/d/20081/id/12337)
2. "LANL scientist makes radio waves
travel faster than light" by Sue Vorenberg, published January 18, 2008 - January 19, 2008: http://www.santafenewmexican.com/HealthandScience/ ... (www.santafenewmexican.com/HealthandScience/LANL_scientist_makes_radio_waves_travel_faster_than_light) - inactive, on 06/30/2009, -6/+139This is unpossible.
- maxvette, on 06/30/2009, -5/+130Science is badass.
- im2emo4myshrt, on 06/30/2009, -6/+121Aren't radio waves light? This doesn't make any sense.
- ramilehti, on 06/30/2009, -0/+103Which means that information cannot travel faster than light speed.
This does not invalidate any of Einstein's ideas. - mark579, on 06/30/2009, -15/+98It seems there are a few holes to fill in here. First of all how much faster than light are we talking, just barely or tons? Second, how much energy does it take to get the waves to travel faster than light? Is it even worth doing? It seems like this could be actually quite useful, but can it be transmitted at any frequency? Do the waves still carry the same properties as any other radio wave? This is an interesting topic, but I have a craving for more information.
- powatom, on 06/30/2009, -2/+78You accidentally the whole meme.
- DarkenKO, on 06/30/2009, -4/+78made me think of ender's game
- Sagags, on 06/30/2009, -2/+75I don't really understand this article, it is way to vague. For one both radio waves and light are electromagnetic waves, and all electromagnetic waves travel at 299792458 m/s. So does this article mean that he was able to create waves that travel faster than 299 792 458 m/s? And if so is it just a certain frequency or what?
This article is so dumbed down its hard to get any answers, like "created a gadget that abuses radio waves so severely that they finally give in and travel faster than light." wtf how do you abuse radio waves? Did he take them into a back room and fondle them until they traveled faster? Is there a more detailed story on this?
The End - samby, on 06/30/2009, -2/+70According to this article (helpfully posted by vroom101 above):
http://www.santafenewmexican.com/HealthandScience/ ...
No radio waves are travelling faster than light. The only thing moving faster than light is the *source* of radio waves, and its not really moving faster than light, its that the sources are synchronized to fire faster than the speed of light, much like if you snap your fingers with both hands at almost the same time the 'snap' can travel between your hands faster than the speed of light, although of course nothing is actually travelling. - obliviousfool, on 06/30/2009, -5/+59Excellent! It seems that someone finally figured out pulsars.
- STPZ, on 06/30/2009, -2/+54One minute I upgrade to Fios next minute this *****
- grantmoore3d, on 06/30/2009, -1/+48It accidentally faster than light.
- thatsgoodkarma, on 06/30/2009, -2/+49accidentally.
- nullcodes, on 06/30/2009, -0/+46sorry I meant phase velocity not group velocity argh
- Toshibi, on 06/30/2009, -1/+40To a physicist, the whole of the electromagnetic spectrum is considered "light". This compartmentalization of differing energies is a very man made concept. There is no fundamental difference between what makes up one or the other.
While I haven't read the article, what we usually refer to as the speed of light is "the speed at which a photon or a wave of light propagates through a vacuum." It's a physical constant, or so we think. I'm guessing this story is saying that they somehow got it to go faster than that. - sgtbutterscotch, on 06/30/2009, -0/+34So, this looks like a good place to have a good scientific discussion. Because I doubt I will understand any of those journal articles partly because it's late at night, and partly because I'm not that smart, I will ask my question here and hope for a smart response.
Aren't radio waves a form of light anyway? I get that they're talking about the conventional speed of light, but still, can one actually say that "radio waves can travel faster than light?" - r0ji, on 06/30/2009, -1/+35Absolutely. Wave group velocity is just a mathematical interpretation, it doesn't describe an actual wave, just a 'shape'. For what it's worth, you can also get a negative group velocity.
I hate these ***** articles that give science a bad name. It's the last thing it needs right now. - ElSantos, on 06/30/2009, -3/+34Me fail recognizing-Simpsons-references? That's unpossible!
- ianhiggs, on 06/30/2009, -0/+30As I've been saying elsewhere in this thread, I am the undergraduate student (in fact, the only person at the moment) working on the hardware for this project at the Los Alamos National Lab. This article poorly represents what we are doing, and is very outdated to boot. John Singleton was not allowed to review this article before it was published, so it contains a number of falsehoods that would lead people to believe that this whole concept is pure quackery. I assure you, no radio waves are traveling faster than light. What we are hoping to demonstrate is a MASSLESS moving polarization current which sources electromagnetic radiation, creating a superluminal emission spectrum. I am currently working on our 72 element antenna and software which we will use to test the theory. If you'd like to know more, I can refer you to documents about the physics behind this (extremely high level stuff!)
- inactive, on 06/30/2009, -1/+30Yes, there are a lot of questions that remain unanswered. Most importantly, how does it work? The article only vaguely describes a device that "abuses" radio waves with a "rapidly spinning magnetic field" to get speedy radio waves that are "packed into a very powerful wave the size of a pencil point." Then it explains that this technology could be used to create cell phones that communicate directly with satellites so that the signals would be "more difficult for hackers to intercept."
Whaaaa? Abused radio waves? Pencil point? Hackers? The article seems a bit absurd. - yoshi8710, on 06/30/2009, -0/+29I don't know why it made you think of that... but dugg for enders game.
- Shazbuckle, on 06/30/2009, -1/+30When the possible -merges- with the impossible you get....
THE POSSIMPIBLE
/himym - im2emo4myshrt, on 06/30/2009, -0/+29Light is electromagnetic radiation. I am not talkinga bout visible light. The speed of a radio wave is the speed of light. Just like the speed of a red wave is the same as the speed of a radio wave. So how can a radio wave go faster than itself?
- had3l, on 06/30/2009, -0/+28Exactly, it was a stupid article. First they say that Einstein said that information can't be relayed faster than the speed of light. Then they say that they can use those radio waves for faster than light communication.
- techtock, on 06/30/2009, -4/+32Where's the video? Just sayin'....
- ianhiggs, on 06/30/2009, -0/+28John Singleton was horribly, horribly misquoted in this article. I am actually and undergraduate student currently in charge of the hardware for this project at LANL. He was not allowed to review this article before its publishing, so it contains a number of incorrect assertions. We are trying in essence to create a phase velocity as a source of electromagnetic radiation that exceeds c. In doing this, we can create a cusp of radiation where multiple field contributions meet at the same instant due to the effect of time retardation. This decays as 1/R, instead of 1/R^2, which gives it numerous applications in directed energy and communications. Please, do not think poorly of John; this article is a travesty, and he is one of the most intelligent people I know. Within our group, this article is viewed somewhere between laughing stock and embarrassment (it is also woefully out of date, since we have moved the project into a stage far beyond anything detailed in this article). I can provide interested parties with peer-reviewed articles detailing the physics behind this concept (they are very high level, be warned).
- inactive, on 06/30/2009, -3/+27The "polarization synchrotron"...
..sounds like the work of the great Dr Frink.
mm hoy - ianhiggs, on 06/30/2009, -1/+24See my comment at the bottom! I am actually the undergraduate student working on this project! This article is a complete travesty! John Singleton was not allowed to review this article before it was printed, so it completely miss-represents our project. No radio waves travel faster than light, only the moving polarization current which is the massless SOURCE of the electromagnetic radiation. This is valid via Maxwell's equations because there is no qualifier for a source of EMR having to have rest mass. I can refer any interested digger to peer-reviewed documents that discuss this project. We have moved far beyond the stage of the project which is detailed in this article, and I am actually working on a prototype 72 element array which will hopefully be able to demonstrate this phenomenon!
- Dolorous, on 06/30/2009, -0/+23I know, it's complete nonsense, article quote: "Einstein predicted that particles and information can't travel faster than the speed of light — but phenomenon like radio waves? That's a different story, said Singleton, a Los Alamos National Laboratory Fellow."
A radio wave is just electromagnetic radiation oscillating in the radio frequency range (3 - 300GHz) - they're made of photons (i.e. light) so wtf !? honestly, the article is saying they go faster than themselves? photons can be considered particles because they have energy and momentum - not only that, they're the force carrier for electromagnetism - this article is complete *****. - ianhiggs, on 06/30/2009, -0/+22This is an extremely poor article describing our project. I am actually the undergraduate student at LANL working on this project, and I can tell you that the article is completely incorrect on a few points. For one thing, we're not crating radio waves that travel faster than light, but a moving polarization current that sources electromagnetic waves. This massless source CAN exceed the speed of light, but not any of its emitted waves. The superluminal effect comes into play when a number of these emitted waves coalesce at a specific point due to the effect of time retardation. I'm currently working on a 72 element circular antenna to hopefully demonstrate this emission phenomenon. John Singleton is horribly represented by this article, for he was not allowed to proof read it before its publishing. He is an incredibly brilliant man, and is a fellow at Oxford and one of the most respected scientists here at the lab. I can provide anyone who is interested with peer-review scientific articles that describe this mechanism (they are extremely high-level, so be warned).
- BREZZZ, on 06/30/2009, -8/+28No, but they might get the news a millisecond faster.
- cryonix, on 06/30/2009, -0/+20Dont know why you're getting dugg down. Legit question for an article that is in the video section and the thumbnail says its a video. Yet there is no video in the article.
Meh.
I call shenanigans. - ThatDeadDude, on 06/30/2009, -1/+21They are the same thing. I read the thing at lanl.gov - the radio waves move at the speed of light. However, the point from which they originate is changing faster than the speed of light. This does not break the laws of physics, as no information is transmitted by the changing of source - the waves still take the same length of time to reach their destination.
- the8thbit, on 06/30/2009, -0/+19Yes.
- Protuhj, on 06/30/2009, -0/+19It doesn't matter if it is .00000001% faster than the speed of light (if the instruments to measure it are correct) the fact is, the speed of light is theoretically the limit to which matter/energy can travel. If they truly have gone faster than the speed of light, then the theoretical limit is therefore wrong.
- kangerue, on 06/30/2009, -0/+19Dugg for radio wave sexual abuse.
- assr, on 06/30/2009, -3/+21Why no? He got it exactly right.
Judging by the mods of this (and other) posts, Digg'ers are really really really bad at science. - inactive, on 06/30/2009, -2/+19it's ok, ie6 will still be dog ***** slow at speed=c+1
- UselessTrivia, on 06/30/2009, -0/+16Don't give up on Ender because of Orson Scott Card. He really does not infuse his books with her personal religious beliefs. In Ender the characters have a huge range of philosophies and religions. In fact the first book is almost completely non-religious (as far as advocating a particular point of view, a few of the characters are somewhat religious). Books 2-4 have a lot of catholic influence. The entire shadow series is a huge mixed bag. Again, lots of catholicism, but also islam, Hinduism and atheism.
They're exceptional books, regardless of how you feel about the author's personal life. - UselessTrivia, on 06/30/2009, -0/+16The Ansible is more about Quantum Entanglement than breaking the light-speed barrier. But I digg, because I'm about halfway through Shadow of the Giant right now, and I'm going to re-read Ender's Game when I finish.
- Harabeck, on 06/30/2009, -2/+17No, he's right, the difference on the scale we're talking about would be negligible.
- fragomatik, on 06/30/2009, -0/+15Yeah, I'm no physicist that's for sure, but I remember reading about this phenomenon many years ago. The example I read used the analogy of a sea-side jetty at an angle to the incoming ocean waves. Imagine that the incoming waves are travelling at the speed of light. The intersection point where the waves meet the jetty travels faster than the waves themselves. Something to do with the phase ... In that particular article they said you can't actually "harness" this effect in a physical manner to convey information, or matter, since it's really only a "wave interference" effect...or something...
...anyway that's my "understanding" of the concept...pardon my clumsy explanation :)
This article suggests that the scientist in question may have found a way of using this phenomenon to provide better comms, etc. Sounds feasible, if somewhat sensationalised in the article. -
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