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Prejudice at Age 6
psychologytoday.com — By age 6, many kids are well schooled in societal prejudice. In fact, children associate white workers with higher status jobs. "It's troubling that children in our society take race as something that defines the status, importance, and pay of jobs," says Lynn S. Liben, professor of psychology at Pennsylvania.
WomunOfColour- 513 diggs
- digg it
- Alphateam, on 10/12/2007, -68/+39But it is OK when we indoctrinate them with the poison of religion at this age?
Jesus camp anyone?- awm4, on 10/12/2007, -35/+74@ Alphateam
The blanket statement that religion is poison is ridiculous and prejudice in its own right.
If religion is taught properly to our kids it should be a tool to help eradicate prejudice.
Jesus taught to "love your neighbor as yourself".
Nothing about any of his teachings should spawn prejudice. - apolloandi, on 10/12/2007, -39/+8@ alphateam
amen
kind of? - holydope, on 10/12/2007, -42/+4Bury...
- Zadkiel, on 10/12/2007, -7/+3Have you heard children teasing each other? They can get pretty mean. But the article is about how race is a factor with children choosing jobs.
- Otto, on 10/12/2007, -14/+29>>>"Nothing about any of his teachings should spawn prejudice."
You're correct that they shouldn't do this. However, the fact is that they do. And this is ignored by most christians, or they are unable to recognize the prejudices that their teachings produce. - CravenTwain, on 10/12/2007, -15/+16Christianity may provide a moral grounding for *some* of those who choose to pursue its teachings; for others it also helps reinforce adult bigotries - the subservient role of women and the "sinfulness" of homosexual relationships, for example. Bringing up a child to believe in a specific religion and therefore these tenets as fact is inappropriate.
All major religions should be taught to children in a detached, critical manner alongside agnostic morality. Let the individidual make up their own mind once they're old enough. - bbqplate, on 10/12/2007, -7/+6you can use anything to "reinforce adult bigotries".
im sure most men here are planning to raise their little boys to not play with dolls, wear dresses, and not scream like a 'girl'. - kent1146, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11"You're correct that they shouldn't do this. However, the fact is that they do. And this is ignored by most christians, or they are unable to recognize the prejudices that their teachings produce."
People who use their religion to justify prejudice or killing are wackos. Just because they are wackos in the name of a religion, doesn't mean that everybody that follows that religion are wackos. They'd still be the same wackos if they were Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist, aethiest, Jedi, etc.
Hate the wacko for being a wacko. - vertinox, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9@"If religion is taught properly to our kids it should be a tool to help eradicate prejudice."
Teach you kid Buddhism then. It is all about eradicating the self's judgment of the universe. - vertinox, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10@"People who use their religion to justify prejudice or killing are wackos."
Or the most rational and saintly person depending on your society.
If we lived in 1099, all our heroes would be the people who went to Jerusalem and killed everyone in the name of God.
Not only would our Kings and rulers argreee, so would our parents and children, and our church leaders would call these people saints and that they are going straight to heaven when they die.
And if you called them a wacko you'd be called a heretic and excommunicated. - aliengoods, on 10/12/2007, -5/+5@Everyone in this thread
I don't think anyone thinks all christians are wackos. But the fact is THERE ARE QUITE A FEW VOCAL AND DANGEROUS WACKOS IN CHRISTIANITY.
I'm not worried about the open-minded christians who believe and worship as they wish and leave others alone, I'm worried about the Jim Jones and David Koresh types, who are utterly insane, have idiot, brainwashed followers, and seem to be capable of anything. Sooner or later, its going to come down to peoples freedoms or their beliefs, and violence seems to be the result. The wackos of a lesser extent (Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell), aren't much better. They preach hatred behind a veil of God's love.
I'm an athiest and I don't care what you worship or why. Just leave me alone and I'll do the same to you. And this includes creationism in the schools. Just because science contradicts your beliefs doesn't mean we should take it out of the classroom. You have the choice to take your children out of the schools. - PabloMac, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2@ Otto: "You're correct that they shouldn't do this. However, the fact is that they do. And this is ignored by most christians, or they are unable to recognize the prejudices that their teachings produce."
Christ's teachings do NOT produce prejudice, but the misinterpretation & misapplication of those teachings often do. The pure and simple message of Jesus Christ is love and service to ALL people. - ICSU, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Alphateam, you are completely right. Maybe some religious beliefs (such as some moral codes) may be good, but particular religions are dangerous and lead to illogical thinking and absence of critical thinking in many cases.
And you certainly do not need religion to teach your kid how to be moral. - BigSlacker, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Do some people REALLY not get the hypocrisy of trying to bash a religious stereotype in this context?
- aristotle1990, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4"In fact, children associate white workers with higher status jobs."
That's because it's probably true.
http://econ.ucsc.edu/~fairlie/papers/JobsLost.pdf
I have nothing against black people, but it's not prejudice to recognize facts. You can't ignore what's staring you in the face; you've got to recognize it and attempt to correct it.
- awm4, on 10/12/2007, -35/+74@ Alphateam
- tablecloth007, on 10/12/2007, -11/+1I wonder if inboxnews is going to read this.
/pssh- docrates, on 10/12/2007, -2/+16In fact, children associate white workers with higher status jobs. "It's troubling that children in our society take race as something that defines the status, importance, and pay of jobs,"
Is it not possible that children are just seeing a pattern and then set expectations based on probability (just like they do with...well, everything!)? If the majority of white workers they see are better off than the rest, they will, of course, label that group. I don't think it has anything to do with the children being prejudiced!
If the kid grows up to think, after learning more about human values and equality, opportunities, and examples that deviate from said pattern, that ONLY white workers can (or FSM forbid, SHOULD) be better off, then we can talk about prejudice and/or racism.
The blank, generalized statement in the article summary is a good example of how important it is for American society to keep on addressing a race issue that all it really needs to go away is to, well, let it go.
You're black, I'm Hispanic, and that white kid's pants are ugly as hell. Who cares. - WomunOfColour, on 10/12/2007, -4/+4"Is it not possible that children are just seeing a pattern and then set expectations based on probability (just like they do with...well, everything!)? If the majority of white workers they see are better off than the rest, they will, of course, label that group. I don't think it has anything to do with the children being prejudiced!"
Uh, that's how prejudice works. You don't have to have a bad intentions, and most prejudice in the world is people making generalizations based on what they are exposed to. - micahglasser, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2"Uh, that's how prejudice works. You don't have to have a bad intentions, and most prejudice in the world is people making generalizations based on what they are exposed to."
If you ever took the time to study epistemology instead of mere baseless ideology you would know that prejudices formed through observed generalizations are an important part of how human beings understand the world. If human beings didn't form prejudices through generalized observations our species would have went extinct a long time ago. Let me offer up an example. If I'm in a bank and I see two guys wearing all black with ski masks walk in I'm going to have a flight or fight response in my nervous system real fast. Why? Because I'm prejudiced against guys wearing all black with ski masks on in banks. I formed that prejudice through years of observing that people with masks on in banks are almost certainly up to know good.
So I hope this illustration helps people understand that human beings need prejudices in order to operate and that merely repeating the mantra "but thats prejudice" doesn't make being prejudice some kind of sin. Its a perfectly normal and useful epistemological stance. - WomunOfColour, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Actually, I *have* studied epistemology. I never said prejudice was some kind of sin--it's people who believe prejudice is about morality who don't understand what it means and how it works. Yes, making generalizations is a fundamental part of how the human brain--and the brains of all or most animals--work. However, if you actually studied epistemology and formal logic, then maybe you'd agree that going from "there exist x such that Px" to "for all x, Px" is something you shouldn't do. It's illogical.
- micahglasser, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Reasoning inductively is not illogical - it just doesn't form a valid deductive argument. If reasoning from the specific to the general were not sometimes a sound practice then it would be impossible to formulate natural laws which are only universal generalizations formulated through the observation of specific (though repeated) instances. Unfortunately learning how to prove arguments with predicate calculus doesn't actually teach one how to think.
- docrates, on 10/12/2007, -2/+16In fact, children associate white workers with higher status jobs. "It's troubling that children in our society take race as something that defines the status, importance, and pay of jobs,"
- burak1, on 10/12/2007, -4/+22Proof that six year olds are b*st*rds like the rest of us, only littler.
- saska, on 10/12/2007, -15/+3Proof that you didn't read the article.
Unless, of course, you think African-American 6 year olds who are the -victims- of the prejudice are bastards. - burak1, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13No, I just choose to see African-Americans just the same as anyone else. Do YOU think they are different?
- member57, on 10/12/2007, -6/+2"No, I just choose to see African-Americans just the same as anyone else. Do YOU think they are different?"
Holy *****, the comment of the year and it's only the 3rd of January!!
Excellent statement! - Saad85, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5maybe they imagine whites right away because whites are a majority and therefore are what they see more often. maybe?
- saska, on 10/12/2007, -15/+3Proof that you didn't read the article.
- 98acura, on 10/12/2007, -33/+17A race war in the US is inevitable... With those ***** Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson as the generals for the "dark side"..
- awm4, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7Uhhhhh ?
- xxl3w, on 10/12/2007, -10/+4haha, I've never heard anyone refer to them as "the dark side". That was pretty funny, you guys have to admit. Don't digg him down. I don't think he's being racist. Just because you make jokes about the other race doesn't mean you're racist. It means you're mature enough to make a joke and hope the other parties aren't offended. Someone can call me white/spoiled/cracker/bitch and I won't get offended. Usually people whom get offended have issues. I guess there's nothing wrong or unnatural about having issues either, so that's pretty touchy.
- 8177, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Bitch
- Digitalfuneral, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7Wow. Prejudice is something that will never go away. As long as there are visible difference between race then I don't see how prejudice can be diminished.
As for religion, that is a whole other subject.- VegasNitro, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Prejudice and difference ain't the same thing. Open-mindness is the key factor here...
- BigSlacker, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0Oops
- WomunOfColour, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I can't see prejudice going away any time soon, but one can try to reduce his/her own prejudice.
- Bon555, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I believe that the races themselves breed the very prejudice that they perceive. Let me offer a different perspective. Senator Obama suggests that Black kids not think that carrying schoolbooks home is against the law. Other Black leaders have voiced similar views, but the kids are just not listening. In my own situation, my wife’s brother married a sensational looking black woman and they have two sets of twins that are now 8 and 12. They (the kids) don’t read, don’t study and only take baths every 4 to 6 weeks. We gave them a computer and a 12 month service with a local ISP and After countless hours of very patient coaxing and teaching, they cannot use Google, GlobalSpec or Wikipedia or do anything online beyond playing a couple of games and Neopets. My wife is better than I am on research, but neither one of us can get the kids to use the Internet intelligently. My brother-in-law is in communications and he cannot push any harder without sacrificing the family. They were coming to a family get together at my wife’s mom’s place and I told the kids to bring some nice clothes so that I could take them to a local Panera Bread with wi-fi for lunch. I have a couple of laptops, wi-fi PDA’s etc and wanted them to see a nice mixture of Whites and Blacks using the Internet in a business oriented fashion. Apparently, nice clothes to the kids meant ‘street’ clothes (holes, tears, and dirty), and no bath.
It’s not that Whites are luckier or have bigger brains. Whites who don’t study are taught to learn the phrase ‘Do you want fries with that?’ Blacks are no different.
And that’s my viewpoint.
- Gunsmith, on 10/12/2007, -14/+8religion is bull*hit, I can see why people look to it for a sense of guidance but is it really worth all the grief in our modern world? your better off looking at historical figures for guidance, after all we are all human.
- john570, on 10/12/2007, -8/+10Awm4 wrote : "If religion is taught properly"
WTF?- IHaveIssues, on 10/12/2007, -8/+8Agreed. They preach love but practice exclusion.
- Skizmo, on 10/12/2007, -8/+3they preach hate and practice terrorism (and yes. . I talk about christianity . .Jesus camp anyone ??)
- dgaspard, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9I'm calling *****. I want to see the pictures they used. I'm willing to bet the white people were wearing suits, while the black guys were dirty and up kept. I'm also willing to bet the kids were swayed one way or another before and /or during this experiment. This study and this article was written for a purpose, not an objective opinion.
- Jolls, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6note the interview group "In a study, researchers interviewed 92 African-American first- and sixth-graders". I'd be curious what white children think as well. It seems much less prejudice if black children think that blacks have worse jobs.
- nightwulf9999, on 10/12/2007, -5/+1What's the point in trying to look for a flaw in their test? Are you hoping that the children were "forced" to see those social prejudices play out that way? As if in some strange attempt to discredit the notion that there is disenfranchisement among the marginalized and opressed. If anything those observations made by the children were rooted in their sub-conscious and if you showed them a black man or other minority dressed in a suit at a business meeting it would be as alien to them as anything else.
And if black children think that blacks have worse jobs, that is still an indication of prejudice. How do you think they got that view? It's not like they just made it up or something to propell themselves up the social ladder. - macweirdo42, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5There are dozens of studies out there that support this hypothesis. You shouldn't disregard it based on one snippet about one study. I mean, you haven't even read the original study, much less any other studies. It's amazing how little we know about what's going on in the world, and how limited we are in our ability to make our own decisions about the world, because all of our news is based on headlines and sound bites.
Personally, I'm calling ***** on the access to information we have today. How can we make judgments about things like this without being able to see the original work? How are we supposed to think for ourselves? The truth of the matter is, we can't, because the media, the ivory tower, the government, all block access to that information we need to be able to think on our own.
Anyway, back to the original point (sorry about the rant), I've read several studies on this subject, and it seems pretty legit. Most famous one I know of is that children, both white and black, prefer to play with white dolls over black dolls, because the white dolls are "better." - strictnein, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7I find it strange that a study that shows that kids have a perspective on life that mirrors reality supposedly shows that they are prejudiced.
- dgaspard, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10From my own experience. If I see someone dirty, covered in tattoos and in baggy clothes, it doesn't matter if they are Black, White, Hispanic, or Asian. I have a certain perception of that person. The same guys with a man in a suit. How you dress and present yourself means a lot. Besides what does a 6 year old know about a job anyways?
- orbit1979, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2dgaspard said: "This study and this article was written for a purpose, not an objective opinion."
Can you offer any proof/evidence of this claim. You state so explicitly as if you do have tangible proof. Or is your "proof" simply that you disagree with the article? - JAVandiver, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2@ Jolls
A statistic can be provided in support for any side of an argument.
Studies are generally financed by an entity that desires a given result, and therefore said result is given.
"There are lies, damn lies, and statistics." ~ Roy Rogers - PlasticSolution, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4"I find it strange that a study that shows that kids have a perspective on life that mirrors reality supposedly shows that they are prejudiced."
Well, the mere idea that anyone's perspective on life will mirror reality is exactly what prejudice is. Just because something is often true doesn't preclude it from being prejudice.
- dr0ne85, on 10/12/2007, -11/+5awm4-
religion is poison.
haha. - rlh1, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3It would be interesting to see what actually swayed their ideas, if not the test itself
Might be media, might be their parents.
At 6 years old I doubt if it was from life experiences.- nightwulf9999, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2You are trying to remove the concepts of the media and one's parents from one's life experiences? Why pray tell?
- rlh1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1No,
By life experiences I mean that they have experienced social prejudices that sway their decisions.
I doubt if many experience this by 6 years of age.
I'm saying that their biggest influence in these thoughts are family and media. - nightwulf9999, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Children who are minorities almost always experience social prejudices by the age of 6 even though white children are often sheltered and might not notice.
- JAVandiver, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3@ nightwulf
What would happen if there were a United Caucasian College Fund?
It seems to me that the NAACP would sue the pants off of them before they would ever get their first donation. - rlh1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1You might be right on that but I think that racism probably goes both ways.
The only prominent black images that I see are rappers and athletes.
I think that what society needs is several prominent black Carl Sagans, or Alan Greenspans. - JAVandiver, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@ rlh1
What about Colon Powell, Condoleeza Rice, or Alan Keyes?
Oh wait, they are Republicans... so automatically "sell outs", right? - popfrogs, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Yeah the way I see it, the black community in America is sick, and the media helps perpetuate the sickness. Bill Cosby has spoken on this topic many times. He said it kills him that all black kids he talks to want to grow up and be rappers or basketball players. Whatever happened to people wanting to be veterinarians, or doctors, or astronauts, or plumbers? Prominent black leadership needs to rise up and make a stand to show that black people are capable of much, much more than what the media portrays. Media shapes reality for impressionable young people, and shame on the thug/gangster rap/baller groups and the media conglomerates that own them for teasing black youth with things they will never have (without a life of crime or incredible luck).
- nightwulf9999, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1@JAVandiver
They already have those funds, they just don't call them that.
- kdehead, on 10/12/2007, -8/+3utterly ridiculous - a attempt to paint 6 year olds as being racist.
we're talking about SIX year olds here for gods sake.- monergism, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9"children rated careers pictured with white workers above those depicted with black workers or a mixed group"
I would too. In the American population, on average, whites have higher paying jobs. How is this racist? If it was intentional, sure, but if it's the reward of education and opportunity, that's "life" and not racism.
Some of us come into life with more opportunities. Some want to take away or give more opportunities to level the playing field. Equal opportunity and equal outcome are very different ideas. - Jolls, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4not being racist though. The interviewed group of kids were black "In a study, researchers interviewed 92 African-American first- and sixth-graders". They probably just picked stuff up from their parents about how whites seem to have better jobs (which I don't agree with)
- tablecloth007, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1and?
- unusualbob, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8"underprivileged children in particular may "self-select" away from high status jobs because they assume a lack of access to the education and resources needed to attain them."
wtf, no, its the parents not caring enough to keep the kid out of drugs and not encouraging them to push to get a good education and job. Many black athletes and rappers seem to say that the only way to get out of the ghetto is through drugs, sports, or music. Education is apparently only for them white folk. - akzidenzgrotesk, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3i dont think they're refering to it as racist in the sense that "white people suck" or "i hate black people" they way you're thinking they are. i think they're saying the kids are prejudiced to think that white people work better jobs (ie. are more successful) than black or minority people. that's not really RACISM as in hating someone for their race, but its PREJUDICE in thinking that success can be predicted by race. now, whether or not that stems from racism is probably dependent on what their home life is like (if a kid has racist parents, they're more likely to have deeply ingrained prejudices than a kid with parents who preach equal opportunities for all).
- nightwulf9999, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2@monergism
"In the American population, on average, whites have higher paying jobs. How is this racist?"
It is racist because it results from and takes place in and a social structure founded on the oppression of certain groups in order to benefit of others. This is a history that continues on today. Racism does not just refer to a white man who says all black men are stupid or lazy or rapists- it refers to standardized tests that are built for and tested on white children to the exclusion of minority students with completely different cultural frames of reference, who are then expected to perform as well on those tests in order to gain the educational opportunities that are supposed to be equalizers. If you look carefully, there are limitless amounts of such structural advantage for white people (especially white men). For example, applying to law school is a very different experience for a woman, who faces the same incredibly high tuition rates as a male does but cannot expect to get paid as much as a man after she graduates, and will likely be expected to not work at all for a period of time because it is assumed to be her responsibility to raise the children. So you see, racism and sexism refer to these structural features of our society that make the playing field inherently NOT level.
What if the playing field really were level? What if all black, hispanic, native american, female, and other minority children had truly equal education, opportunities, safety, support, and everything that leads to a successful career? I, personally, think that is SCARY to white men out there because it means they are no longer guaranteed a place in the elite group of our society. Sure, no (or very few) white men are guaranteed that great job - they have to work for it. But they know they only have to compete against a small group and most of the country is excluded from even making it that far. If the playing field were truly level, we would see a MUCH smaller percentage of white males in positions of power.
We live in a world of privileged and underprivileged groups. Almost anyone in the privileged group is happy to say that underprivileged is wrong and we would like to bring everyone up to our level of opportunity. The fact is, though, that is impossible. In order for everyone to be on an equal footing, those of us in the privileged group have to give up the benefits we get from taking advantage of the underprivileged. White children will have to give up the privilege of their disproportionately high percentiles on standardized test scores because the test was tailored to them, for example. We can't bring them all up - we have to meet in the middle. Which means there are some things we have to give up. That is where people get stuck - sure we talk about equality, but we are not willing to do what we have to do.
And please excuse me if i made spelling or grammatical errors - I'm not the best on that. - orbit1979, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4@ nightwulf9999:
"I, personally, think that is SCARY to white men out there because it means they are no longer guaranteed a place in the elite group of our society. Sure, no (or very few) white men are guaranteed that great job - they have to work for it."
You managed to contradict the first point with your second point. In the first sentence you claim white men are in fact guaranteed a place in the "elite group". In the second sentence, you claim very few white men are guaranteed that great job. I would think the two are synonymous. You last statement is the only accurate one: "they have to work for it."
p.s. If I am guaranteed a seat with the elite club, can you be so kind as to show me the way? Because I sure as hell got lost someway along the way! - kelbear, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Capitalism by it's nature intrinsically dictates that we have losers so that we can have winners. Evidently some people are winning more than others. Looks like the system is working. Somebody needs to pump gas into our luxurious cars. For people to live the american dream, other people need to fail.
- monergism, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9"children rated careers pictured with white workers above those depicted with black workers or a mixed group"
- baalzebub, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6children are amazingly bright, they pickup and learn a LOT from parents, siblings, friends, and one of the biggest offenders is Television, a child's mind is sort of like a blank page which will be written to, so it is of utmost importance to teach children to be wise and understanding, or the evil crap of the past will be perpetuated in future generations...
- VegasNitro, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4>Might be media, might be their parents.
Might even be religion... - unusualbob, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Has anyone taken the time to think that 6 year olds may just be noticing a trend? I mean many of the high paid people i see are either white or asian. I think it all has to do with where they are growing up. No parent is going to sit down with their kid and say "now johnny, i know it isnt fair, but white people get all the good jobs." unless the parent is racist to begin with. then its kinda inevitable.
- copperhead, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2Actually, it happens quite often that black parents tell their kids that they need to get used to the fact that they're not going to get a decent job. Oftentimes, the parents were victims of vicious racism 20 to 30 years ago, and project their experiences on the child's future.
- PlasticSolution, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"Noticing a trend" and forming conceptions based on it would be a prime example of prejudice.
And nobody's saying that prejudice is always bad, we all frequently practice it on different levels, just that very young children are exhibiting it.
- Dontlooknow, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1www.psychologytoday.com L. Ron Would not approve.
- JAVandiver, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Oh, but Scientology makes so much sense...
Did he not start that as a joke?
I read that in an interview with him in a science fiction magazine from the 50's or 60's?
Could someone cite it if they know?
- JAVandiver, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Oh, but Scientology makes so much sense...
- backstra, on 10/12/2007, -5/+5I can only speak from experience, but where I live is fairly racially diverse - not as much as some bigger cities I suppose. Anyway, I deal a lot with kids with a wife as a teacher and coaching many sports for kids this age. Anyway, most kids I see don't even recognize the difference between white and black at 6 years old. Seems everyone wants to beat on religion - I think both Psychology and many college professors are the root of evil today. Excuses for everything and everything is not your fault. What a crock!
- Mactard, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Yes. Maybe if parents put more effort into child rearing. Its sad but true. Change will take some time unfortunately.
- orbit1979, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2"many college professors are the root of evil today."
Come on now. The root of all evil? I think the only professors that could fall remotely close to that description are economics/business professors who teach that humans are commodities, mere units of production, or simply "capital". Granted some professor's research / interpretations of that research may be flawed, but that is far from evil. Frankly, the fact that they do heavy research is one major step from most people who make claims backed by little or no research at all.
- finchleymusic, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0mad, the article talked about predjudice. And in act of non-prejudice people immediately attack religion and christians in particular!!....talk about predjudice!!
may as well face facts that we're all hyprocrites to greater or less degrees, we're all capable of being judgemental and predjudice and in starts young!
sad but true - copperhead, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5The article seems to be promoting the idea that it is prejudice in the society around them that are causing children to think they are unfit for more "educated" jobs. But, how do we know that it is not a reverse form of prejudice, where black parents are telling their children not to be "uppity", and that they "need to know their place in society", or from their black peers who are telling them that they need to rappers or basketball players in order to be successful.
I'm not denying that prejudice exists, but I think it exists on many different levels. I'm a white person living in a predominantly black neighborhood, and I see firsthand the levels of "negative prejudice" that exists in many of the black families.- dgaspard, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7In New Orleans I blame politicians. Jefferson, Fields, and Nagin went to many local churches and rallies with the undertone being something like "You need to vote for a black man." Local politicians and "Black Leaders" tend to promote racism for there own political gain. They take advantage of the poor and uneducated telling them they will take care of them while the white guy will cut off there life lines. Ironically, the black leaders in the south are black people's worse enemy.
- Jiffylush, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5My daughter who is now 5 thought that all women were teachers, based on the fact that every woman she knows except her grandmothers are teachers (wife is a teacher and most of her adult friends are too, plus the teachers at pre-k). I have been trying to reinforce that she can be whatever she wants to be, specifically by pointing out that my mother (her grandma carole) was a well paid executive in IT.
Kids pick up things that may not be politically correct or acceptable based on what they see in their limited life experiences. If these kids parents are generally blue-collar or service industry and they all the white people they know live in nicer houses with nicer cars they are going to put two and two together. Their assumptions are not be based on the reality of our whole country or world, just on their experiences.- Shilov, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0You could always take her to a place of commerce where she would find trivial counterexamples to the assertion that "all women are teachers."
- Conwaysb0718, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9All that this article "proves" to me is that most, not all, black children who participated in this study are not being raised by their parents to believe that they can achieve anything with hard work and "sticktoitiveness." As long some keep blaming society without addressing the real culprit(s), the problem will fester.
Mad props to Bill Cosby btw. - greysun, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3If you take those same races and look at what their respective demographic considers high 'status and importance', you'll find the root of your problem. If you're looking for 'cash money' instead of 'good 401k and career growth opportunities', your chances of true success got much lower.
- qbyte, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Racism and prejudice is root to the nature of mammals. It is wrong and higher civilizations see how damaging it is but lay off the kids and spend your energy teaching them the merits of diversity and equality.
Prejudice is a part of a very basic level classification system in our brains. It is what tells us that this looks dangerous while that looks yummy without actually experiencing either objects beforehand. It's the part of your brain that tells you that a big man covered in tattoos and an evil look in his eye is probably not someone that you want to bump into in a dark ally.
It's not prejudice that is wrong ... it often saves lives. It is the misplacement of prejudice that does social damage. That is where kids need to be educated instead of blaming society around them.
The kids will just as soon make fun of someone for having a big nose as they would about being a different race. It's just kids being kids. It is up to the responsible adults to step in and teach the kids that this is wrong.
This article was written by a man named Thomas Sexton. He needs to go back to school and learn the basic behavior of all mammals before writing columns like this. Prejudice is not learned - equality is.
Maybe it's all of the psychology hacks like this author who are contributing to the problem by pointing fingers instead of actually doing something constructive. - Kenzan, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Children overwhelmingly learn prejudices directly or indirectly from their parents.
If a child is displaying a prejudicial attitude towards a certain thing, and the parent wonders why,
all they need do is look in the mirror to find the answer. - felderado, on 10/12/2007, -7/+1-- NEWS FLASH --
"Race" is a social construction and does NOT exist.
When the hell are people going to wake up and smell the coffee you prejudice BASTARDS!- JAVandiver, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Human beings are tribal creatures and are naturally predisposed to other humans of similar aesthetic. This means that the majority of people gravitate towards those who look like themselves. This is in order to find a mate of similar genetic characteristics. Have you ever wondered why the vast majority of couples look somewhat similar to each other? They want their offspring to be similar to themselves. It is a problem of self awareness. A conscious decision can be made to override this drive, yes, but most people really do not care to do so.
- tipexy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6"race" is a social construct and therefore exists.
By saying race doesn't exist is a nice way of sidestepping any issues related to underperformance of any group of people, over dominance by others. - Conwaysb0718, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Well, I suppose you could just go extreme and say there are no human races, just different species.
- Shilov, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0That would make no sense given the typical criteria used for defining species.
- orbit1979, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"They want their offspring to be similar to themselves."
That is exactly what I was thinking when I married my wife! (sarcasm). - felderado, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2That's EXACTLY what I was saying man.
RACE IS A SOCIAL CONSTUCT.
It does not exist except in our society, created by US.
We have the power to end it. - Shilov, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1These generalizations have obvious exceptions, since a portion of the population has various fetishes for mates from other "racial groups." There is also no credible reason thus stated to accept that "most couples look alike," when that seems absurd from anecdotal experience.
There may very well be a strong self-segregating bias in the mating habits of humans, but to go so far as to state that couples actually look alike is taking the egg-hunt too far. - VCAT, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Race is BOTH a social construct and biological reality. It does not have to be one or the other. The arbitrary "binning" of everyone into 5 or 6 discrete categories is absurd and an illustration of the construct (a continuum would be a more accurate construct - the concept race implies discrete categories). However, race has a biological reality example: sickle cell, tay sachs, hypertension, cistic fibrosis, resistances to certain maladies, skin color, physiological features.
This is a sociology class logical fallacy that because race has a socially constructed component, that the biological component has to be zero. The analogy would be that AGE is also socially constructed (what is acceptable behavior, attire, social position, how we interact with, the fact we cannot predict with 100% accuracy one's age, all depend on socially constructed concept of age), but is also a biological reality (said person IS x years old).
- JAVandiver, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Prejudice is not a bad thing, discrimination is. Prejudice is a natural occurrence based upon experience. The problem is with the experience.
- cafzal, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1By the age of 11 or so, a child will finally be able to understand things like politics. However, by then it may be too late.
- UglieJosh, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I wish I could find the study I was reading that talked about how children from underprivileged families (all races included) were less likely to get scholarships to major universities than a child from a family that could afford the tuition on their own. Many of the underprivileged children that managed to actually get the scholarships (mostly the black children because of specific guidelines universities have to follow) couldn't manage to then afford the books and other expenses of going to the university.
This may have been inaccurate (can't remember if it was a reliable source) but, if it is true, maybe these underprivileged children have good reason to not aim that high. After all, I'm sure you have all seen the numerous studies that suggest Americans who are born poor are more likely to stay poor than those born poor in any other "wealthy, first world" nation. Maybe the kids have good reason not to set their sights to high.
All hail Luxembourg, the REAL land of opportunity. - vstarre, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Association != Prejudice, /especially/ for a 6 year old.
"I have never seen a white Janitor -> All janitors must be black" is not a Prejudiced statement, it is simple observation. I'd be troubled if a 6 year old /didn't/ make the connection. It's not true, sure, but that doesnt mean "Oh noes! He's prejudiced! We need to go out of our way to make things appear differently from how they really are, or he might make the wrong assumptions!"
For a six year old, it's okay to have some wrong assumptions.- Shilov, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1You would be disappointed if a 6-year old did not mistake existential quantification for universal quantification? Or that they did not made weak inferences? I would think that one should be pleased if that happens, since I cannot conceive of a down side to it.
Seeing patterns that are not there is not of any particular value, and is one of the more entertaining limitations of human cognition.
- Shilov, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1You would be disappointed if a 6-year old did not mistake existential quantification for universal quantification? Or that they did not made weak inferences? I would think that one should be pleased if that happens, since I cannot conceive of a down side to it.
- HarryBauzonia, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Children associate white workers with higher status jobs because there ARE MORE white workers with high status jobs.
It's knowledge of fact and nothing more. Kids are quite capable of noticing what's going on around them, and what they see around them are black folks who glamorize and act out sociopathic behavior (which disqualifies them from any job much less the high status ones).
When the day comes that LaPhonso and Duneshia decide to stop making crack babies and pull their britches up past their asses that will change. Oh, and it will help when they stop tearing down the Colin Powells and Clarence Thomases of the world and use these good folks as their role models instead of various sh*thead "playahs" and "gangstahs". - rlh1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Some facts to consider on why black children in the US might assume that the privileged jobs are not theirs to have.
33% of black children live in poverty vs 13% of white children
70% of black children are born out of wedlock.
When mom is working 2 jobs to make ends meet, when almost 3 times as many black kids live in poverty as white, when there is no strong father around for a good role model, it stands to reason that a high percentage of black children will assume that that pattern will continue for them.
I know that the theme of having a strong family with a mom a dad who raise their own children and push them to achieve scholastically is not popular in today's thinking but I think this is the fix step in fixing inequities in society.
I remember when the Asian boat people started to immigrate here there was quite a bit of racism towards them. Now they are leading corporations and dominating many fields. ---strong families with a strong desire for education pushed on them by the parents.- JAVandiver, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Kudos!
- ronaldst, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1That's nothing.
I some countries, like progressive Sweden, there are people that molest domestic and farm animals and are considered normal. Those stupid rednecks are grown ups!- popfrogs, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2You're hoping for a barnyard animal game for the Wii aren't you?
I call it "Heavy Petting Zoo". - ronaldst, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Gives a new meaning to Sven goes to the Zoo.
- polypropglop, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Anyone up for a game of Leisure Suit Lambchops?
- popfrogs, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2You're hoping for a barnyard animal game for the Wii aren't you?
- PaulGriffin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Lets not forget that for the most part, schools and their administration consist of for the most part white stuck up women (and a few men) who over dress to seem important, while the janitors and lunch ladies obviously arent wearing suits and for the most part are minorities. 6 Years olds arent blind. They think the administration = Importance while the guy that cleans up trash = not so important. They happen to associate color of skin to this as well.
- JAVandiver, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3How did the people in the administrative positions get there?
Is it because of their ethnic background or their education and hard work? - PaulGriffin, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Well if anyone's ever been to school (i'm pretty sure this applies to everyone,) their's not much confusion on whether or not the administration got there with hard work and a good education seeing as how they're probably the biggest morons at the school.
- JAVandiver, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Your ability to make a point astounds me!
- JAVandiver, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3How did the people in the administrative positions get there?
- VCAT, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0This just shows children are observant beginning at around 6. Its gonna take a lot of conditioning to fight what is basically just children sucking up information that is around them. This should be expected given the society's structure.
- TheToecutter, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4"In fact, children associate white workers with higher status jobs"
Statistically speaking, isn't this true tho? I'm not saying it's socially right or accpetable, only that it's true within our society and that 6 year old kids aren't dumb and blind. - pirotess, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2It's not "prejudice" if it's the truth.
- kelbear, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1I remember having to ask why I'm supposed to hate Jews...and what the hell a jew was and why a jew was different from all the other identical-looking white people I see everyday.
- mochzr, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3It's been shown that, in general, Conservatives perceive the world to be just more so than someone who is more Liberal. Those who are rich have worked hard to be rich, and those who are poor deserve to be so.
- pcg2105, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2They THINK that because they are TAUGHT that. They are too young to have any ral notion of social conflict, etc. (At least I was at age 6)
- dtatom, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2So young humans are impressionable and older humans are prejudice. Well duh! Prejudice is based off experience, real or imagined. It is very stupid to think that a 6 year old is devoid of experience and therefore devoid of prejudice.
- thePuck77, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Hmmm, I remember small children as being little conformo-fascists who seize on any possible perceived difference and attack it. Children are not innocent, and anyone who thinks they are needs to consider that they are letting yet another piece of religious thinking get in your head. The idea that children are morally better than adults or more pure or innocent comes directly from the idea that god would make a soul perfect and that a child is closer to that perfection, having had less time to sin. Children, for the most part, seem to have no morals or ability to empathize at all, and only develop them later (hopefully). This is because they were not "created perfect in the image of god", but because they are little animals produced by evolution and have to learn the little rules and ideas we call ethics and morality.
- ciscoutx, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0"How did the people in the administrative positions get there?
Is it because of their ethnic background or their education and hard work?"
@ JAVandiver
Cheating, lying, and playing politics is how many people in power get there. You cannot get there without playing the game. Tell me you have never had an incompetent boss? In a collegiate environment I have witnessed upper management use new PHDs or grad students to do the dirty work and get the credit. I am more than positive this isn't relegated to universities. Studies have shown how much cheating goes on in the collegiate arena. People claw their way to the top. This is the way things run in government, in the corporate world, and even in blue collar jobs. It's all about who you know. Hard work is no longer enough, and unfortunately this creates inefficiency in our government, our companies, and it is all rooted in those who have and those who don't. Look at our current administration and tell me those are the best candidates for their positions...- JAVandiver, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1So success is based upon cheating now. Did someone "cheat" you out of something that you deserved. Generally bosses use subordinate to achieve a goal Have you ever had a job? It has been my experience that those who are "cheated" just do not want to take accountability for allowing someone to gain the upper hand.
- korupture, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2All I have to say on this is that stereotypes are there for a reason.
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