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Particle Found to Oscillate Between Matter and Antimatter

physorg.com — Scientists have announced that their data on the properties of a subatomic particle, the B_s meson ("B sub s"), suggest that the particle oscillates between matter and antimatter in one of nature's fastest rapid-fire processes-more than 17 trillion times per second.

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  • szelij, on 10/12/2007, -6/+33So...the particle swings both ways then eh?
    • capn_caveman, on 10/12/2007, -26/+3I could come up with some jokes... but nah...
    • meson2k, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2So am I matter or antimatter? Do I exist at all.... or is "matter" just a harmonic motion around "nothing"? Wow.
    • samstr, on 10/12/2007, -4/+5It doesnt matter !!

      -------------------------------
      http://www.wirah.com
    • chrome0011, on 10/12/2007, -5/+2Get it? "Matter"? BWAHhahahahahah. [cricket] [cricket]
    • geoboy, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4"What is the mind? No matter. What is matter? Nevermind."
  • dilivion, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5The original press release from Fermilab is at http://www.fnal.gov/pub/presspass/press_releases/DZeroB_s.html
  • multivariate, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11I cannot fathom how they track something that is oscillating 17 TRILLIAN TIMES PER SECOND. Really, think about how fast that is. Sometimes science really boggles my mind.
    • DukeofSpades, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5Don't stress your brain; I'm sure they didn't do it with a stopwatch.
    • chicken101, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11They figured that out with mathamatics, they didn't need to track it.
    • heymark, on 10/12/2007, -9/+6... And we think we understand infinity? Please. We don't understand it so much, we gave it a finite symbol.
    • WaterDragon, on 10/12/2007, -6/+117 trillion times per second is, precisely, the 'speed of lying', known to arrogant, grant-sucking pseudo-scientists everywhere, but rarely discussed.
  • cfazzini, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4Very interesting.
  • CutRock, on 10/12/2007, -20/+5BS!
  • MacSawD, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5This is absolutely amazing...if only the scientists could create some sort of chip out of this 1 particle. 17 billion "on/offs" a second sounds like a fast processor to me :P
    • fredrated, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5That's Trillion with a *T*
    • Godel, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Its just an oscillator, I doubt they could make a chip out of it. They might be able to make an amazingly accurate clock with it though.
    • Jimzip, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1lol Godel.
      "And now, introducing, the Osci-clock! Accurate to 17-trillionths of a second!"
      Kinda redundant wouldn't you say? ;)

      Jimzip :D
    • HairyFotr, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7@fredrated:
      Why have Trillions, when you can have... Billions
      *Pinkie finger to mouth*
    • jlbraun, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Given that it oscillates between antimatter and matter...

      "Here is our new prototype oscillator. Notice how accura..." (POOM!)
  • jamesob5, on 10/12/2007, -10/+2This is what "The Da Vinci Code" prequel is about.
  • felchdonkey, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I've been trying to read up on this to understand the implications, but my head is starting to swim. Can anyone with a particle physics background and a knack for simple sentences try and explain what it might mean?

    From what I could glean, it all has something to do with why the universe has matter instead of antimatter, and what we really know about physics. Is this one step closer to completing the Standard Model, or one step closer to showing that physics is in error?

    All the articles I looked up on this went into symmetry, and CP violations, and CPT symmetry. At that point, the math got trotted out, my eyes started bleeding, and I couldn't read on. Help a dummy out - is this related in any distant way to the symmetry of time? Or is it just a cool little nugget about the nature of particles?

    Ow, ow, my head...
    • cantoral, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11B_s and anti B_s are like K_s and anti K_s, this second system has been known for many years. Both express CP violation. If CPT is conserved, then T is violated. Past and future are distinguished by elementary particles, to my mind that means that they are not that elementary.
      Andrei Saharov from the USSR explained in 1967 that the CP violation is a condition to have a Universe made of matter, instead of pure energy. Without CP violation we would not be here. Very likely all the matter would have annihilated all the anti-matter, and the Universe would be made of pure energy.
      The B_s system is a new theater to watch the dramatic play of the life of our Universe. This new arena will help to fine tune the Standard Model. These measurments so far do not contradict this model. Write your congressman so Congress does not close down Fermilab. The US government is not supporting Fermilab, SLAC, and Brookhaven. This is wrong.
    • revkarol, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6OK some background first. The oscillation thing is not new. As the article says B_d mixing/oscillation was discovered in the 80's.

      Secondly, nobody is going to make anything out of these particles any time soon, they're unstable. They live for a fraction of a second and then decay.

      That's mostly how particle detectors work. We can't detect a 'B' or a 'Higgs' but we can detect decay products like electrons and pions and such. These daughter particles get reconstructed from their tracks, momentum and energies and we can then make a claim about what the parent was. Of course, you can't just do this once and say you've found "Higgs", but if you do it a million times with the same results you've got a decent argument (or confidence level).

      Anyway, for those who don't know CPT = charge, parity and time respectively. The symmetry referred to is this: In any interaction (i.e. collision or decay of particles) these properties (C, P and T) may be conserved. So say charge is conserved, that means before a collision the sum of all the charges on all particles is same as the sum on all the products after. Now as far as we know the product of CPT is conserved in every interaction, but each individual property on it's own may not be. CP is just Charge and Parity, and if CP violation occurs the product CP is not conserved.

      What's all that mean for matter? Well, CP refers to the symmetry between particles and antiparticles. So if you invert the Charge and the Parity (parity means take a mirror image) in an interaction the result should be the same. So CP Violation means that there can be a difference between matter and antimatter.

      Hence CP Violation is why we're here.
    • felchdonkey, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Cantoral & Revkarol - thanks.

      Not quite a "for dummies" explanation, but I get it a little better. As a non-scientist, it's all pretty squinty for me. Cantoral, what do you mean that if CPT is violated, T is conserved? I apologize for the question if this is stupid, but... since CP violation is necessary for matter to dominate (and for the universe to exist), are you saying that CP violation = time symmetry? Is that what T being conserved means, that T goes both ways?
    • cantoral, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Felchdonkey I did not write if CPT is violated. I wrote if CPT is conserved. As Revkarol wrote CPT is a combination of three symmetries. When one says that CPT is conserved, one means that CPT is equal to 1. A violation is -1. CP violated means CP = -1. To get back your CPT of 1, which we believe is true for all known interactions, then T is -1. That means time parity is violated. The past is different from the future for these newly detected B_s particles. Is like if these elementary particles are getting old or something, I find that intriguing.
    • felchdonkey, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Cantoral - thanks again. I read your sentence backwards. So if time parity is violated, is that like finding out that the arrow of time really only goes one way?
    • cantoral, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Felchdonkey:
      Violation of time parity means that past and future are different, not that time cannot go backwards. Of course this is also a possibility, it could be that only future forward paths are possible.
  • cnerd2025, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5So have we discovered the "dilithium" from Star Trek? :P

    Still, this is pretty sweet. I work at a DoE lab so I'll have to have some chats with the physicists Monday about the significance of this. To me something is already clear: this is very important with what physicists call "spin" (or more technically, angular momentum) of particles. For example, an electron has a spin of 1 (for our purposes). Interestingly, the positron (anti-electron) is exactly the same notwithstanding its -1 spin. Thus the two particles are oppositely charged, attract each other, and then annihilate, releasing energy.
    • Lutz, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3Crap, I was going to do a Star Trek joke but it would be all lame just after your comment... Which reminds me of that this comment is lame to, I'll just warp back to work and dream about what is up there, about new worlds.

      (btw, your joke was really lame to but the article was great, digg++)
  • olegk, on 10/12/2007, -6/+2i sense 17 THz processor
  • br8k, on 10/12/2007, -12/+0@ multivariate: "I cannot fathom how they track something that is oscillating 17 TRILLIAN TIMES PER SECOND. Really, think about how fast that is. Sometimes science really boggles my mind."

    I oscillate my particles at 17 trillian times per second every morning in the shower. I found that 17 trillian oscillation per second results in particle erruption in 1 minute so no one ever suspects what I do in the shower other than what you normally do in the shower. Did everyone kapish wat I'm gettin at? LOL
  • roblord, on 10/12/2007, -6/+2Matter? Anti-matter? It doesn't matter anyway.
    • swight, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Ok, so does this mean, if we get two B_s mesons to collide, there is a 50/50 chance of an anhilation of the particles?

      With the answer to that for me still pending, can we produce B_s mesons in quantity? (say in a particle stream of some sort? like we do with electrons and neutrons) To be honest, its been a while since I read up on this, and I'm not sure where mesons fit in the structure of the universe.
  • jimbo92107, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Ah, the elusive BS meson...and so close to April Fool's Day. This particle has a particularly self-destructive streak, and its particle trail exhibits heavy signs of social dissconnection...
    • mrFREEZE, on 10/12/2007, -5/+1B_s meson.... get it? BS MESON?!

      AAAAAAPPPPPPRIIIILLLLL FOOOOOOLLLLLSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    • mrFREEZE, on 10/12/2007, -4/+1B_s meson.... get it? BS MESON?!

      AAAAAAPPPPPPRIIIILLLLL FOOOOOOLLLLLSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      (lame)
    • spamdies, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1ah some great ***** you nput up the mrfreeze r.nanvarra what the ***** ever, you talk a whole lot of ***** on the net you little and i do mean little bitch
    • mrFREEZE, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Hey spam dies... I was wondering why out of the blue some reandom internet geek decided to "insult" me... and found the thread where you were bitching about cracks being on the front page and how you were moaning about leaving.

      Here's what someone else said when you cried "waaaaah... that's it i'm out":

      Mike89 on 3/26/06:
      >Ah man, that's a real shame to hear, you're a major component here at Digg!
      >
      >I mean, who can forgot your every so famous stories (http://digg.com/users/spamdies/submitted)
      >
      >I don't know what we're going to do without you

      and here's what i said:

      >Oh boo-hoo!
      >
      >"none of my rubmitted articles ever made it to the front page! waaaahh!!!"
      >
      >Guess what *****, we don't want you here since you're obviously too much of a retarded ***** to realize >that this has legitimate uses (why the ***** do you think it so many people have dugg it?) Go back to slashdot to >get your news and suck on CmdrTaco's nutsack.


      BAAAAHAHAHAHAHA!!! You're such a tool. It's good to know that my comments got to you. You just made my day knowing that I pissed you off so much for you to post insults about me in retaliation. I guess you're the little bitch after all. :P

      I don't have time to check, but I wonder if you posted an "angry" comment to Mike89 in retaliation as well, since NONE of your submitted stories ever made it to the front page. What a douche tard.
  • differentangel, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1
    Does this mean something is traveling from out matter to the other anti matter? How do we travel between this matter and anti matter?
  • andybarrett, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Sheesh those atomic clocks are so outta style... so like, last century. My B_s meson clock can measure relativistic changes when I walk to the 7-11.
  • yahoofrom, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Does it antimatter?
  • cantoral, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Finally the CDF group confirmed it.

    http://www.fnal.gov/pub/presspass/press_releases/CDF_04-11-06.html
  •  

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