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57 Comments
- steger, on 10/12/2007, -3/+53no *****.
- DyDx, on 10/12/2007, -2/+14@craigb12: are you saying that Digg, of all places, is for intellectuals? Do you see what goes on here?!
- CraigB12, on 10/12/2007, -4/+16Yeah really, there was a huge article about this on News Vine last week... if you didn't know that oil is used for more than gas, then you don't belong on this or any site that harbors articles for intellectual people.
- LordZodd, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9Seriously, there was just a study out that something like 72% of Americans did not know plastic comes from oil!!
http://digg.com/general_sciences/70_Of_Americans_Don_t_Know_Plastic_Is_Made_With_Oil
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2007/04/70_of_americans.php - obby, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Your right, it really has very little to do with cars. I don't know if it was that site, or "A Crude Awakening The Oil Crash" Documentary that I watched that stated oil is one of the cheapest liquids we have. They brought the cost up to a $15 a gallon, in-line with other liquids. The energy provided by 1 barrel of oil equals 25000 man hours (just over 1000 men working for a 24 hour period) We have it pretty sweet right now that we can get energy so cheap.
Looking at stats from 1900 vs 1998 (http://www.time.com/time/time100/timewarp/ie3/w_stat1.html and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population), it shows that we had 1.6 billion people then vs 6 billion now. The number that got me was ~ 55% of the workforce was in farming. If the oil market does crash, life on easy street as we know it is over. Heck we will probably telling our kids how we used to go on road trips for the heck of it(uphill both ways).
I only hope I am wrong, that I am over exaggerating the issue. That out planet can sustain >6 billion people without cheap energy. We should be pushing our governments to move away from oil.
Even if you disagree, take a look at http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/ or watch "A Crude Awakening The Oil Crash" - subarusqueege, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5This is misleading because the price of gas rises due to factors such as no refineries being built in 20 years, not the rise in oil prices so much......
- BESTenemy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5 Plastic has a replacement - silicon based compounds. Fuels can be substituted for one another. Personally I'm more concerned about roads themselves, or pavement - currently a byproduct of oil refining. The next material in line for such task would be concrete. It is alot more expensive, less versatile, more fragile and it takes longer to harden. New methods allow production of elastic concrete similar to standard pavement, through use of recycled tires. But as the article points out, synthetic rubber is also manufactured from oil, so it's only a marginal solution.
No matter what the next gen cars use for fuel, they'll still need roads. - byronne, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5For two years now, it has astounded me that folks don't realize that oil is the means to production in current systems. Realizing that, and that oil is a finite commodity, I repeatedly send them to this site:
http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/
It ain't just the gas in the car, it's the seats, the windows, the tires, the whole damn thing. - drewhenson, on 10/12/2007, -6/+9I recently had an argument with an individual who stated "plastics contain no petroleum." I tried to convince him otherwise, but it felt like I was arguing with a creationist.
- HerrEisenheim, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Oil is used as an intermediate good, so it's no wonder that it will raise the price of other good and services.
However, most manufactured good don't require high grade, low sulfur oil, which is really what's in short supply in the world and what's primarily concentrated in the Middle East. Many things can be made from heavy(ier) crude, which doesn't have nearly the price premium of light/sweet oil. If oil could be more cheaply refined, gas wouldn't be as expensive as it is. It's the fact that the oil in places like Saudi Arabia is very cheap to extract because of it's high API gravity, and it's very easy to refine because of it's low sulfur content. It can be pulled from the ground at any price point and be profitable, and it's a lot cheaper to refine into premium unleaded gasoline.
It's really services that are effected the most, because of transportation costs, particularly in the US because of how reliant we are on the trucking industry and how large the country is. - DM01, on 10/12/2007, -5/+7Oops, bad time to skip a section, digg me down.
I'm a dumb american. - krinthekuz, on 09/16/2008, -4/+6this is one of the reasons why marihuana was scrutinized in the late 20s (and all that racist ***** was made up). the hemp plant grows like a weed (hence the nickname) and can be used to replace a lot of the starch (food products), fibers (cotton), polychains (plastics), and more. the first US hemp grower was allowed to make a hemp farm the first time just last year... and he's under constant scrutiny by the DEA.
- anar1987, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3there are a lot of issues that influence the gas price one of them is oils price (the most important one) but in the mean time it's not the only one.
- jakv5, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5They need to open up California to a hand picked selection of the large rigs that operate hundreds of miles off the coast then strictly watch and regulate them.
If not then when oil prices get higher the average consumer will demand more drilling and instead of hand selecting only the best/safest/greenest rigs they will let every tom, dick and harry with an oil rig into the state and we'll have the 1970's revisited.
The problem is everyone thinks about these issues in black & white instead of red (for freedom) and green (for the environment). It shouldn't be a YES or NO decision, it should be a well planned/thought out one! - usedupfag, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I used to work on a refinery, and they made more profit from producing coke than they did oil.
- lengau, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3@ejsocom - No need to throw names at him/her/it. He/She/It already apologised and stated that it was almost half an hour before you wrote your comment.
- SanTe, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I wrote:
"20,000 gallons of jet fuel per mile isn't exactly sustainable"
Typo. I meant to say "20,000 gallons of jet fuel per hour [in the air] isn't exactly sustainable." - iamhumble, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1lets not forget our lovely people in CONGRESS. they are a influenced in the prices as well.
- SanTe, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"Nope, can't buy that for a second. You will developed countries turning on developed countries to get the last of the oil. Conscription, drafts and all sorts of other things will come from running out of oil. "
Yes, I was talking about after all of that. At some point closer to the far end of the oil production bell curve the manufacture of modern military hardware will become next to impossible. Even if the military vehicles used some form of renewable energy for fuel they still require cheap oil for their manufacture. When the cheap oil goes away and then the more expensive oil begins to go away, not only do we all travel a lot less but we will manufacture a lot less of most everything.
Militaries will go back to fighting the old fashioned way: with guns on horseback and on foot, and then with spears because mass production of guns will get more and more expensive even if we can recycle the raw materials. Mass production of anything will get more and more expensive until it becomes near impossible. Most people will have to go back to farming by animal power and human muscle.
http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net does a good job of explaining how no alternative energy source out there can replace oil. We have built all modern economies around cheap oil and all other fuel sources are both orders of magnitude more expensive and far less plentiful. - MisterWhite, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I think that's a result of the breakup of the great tennis ball company monopoly in the mid '90s.
- subarusqueege, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1dopesick
We have a well on our property and collect checks off it....I'm pretty sure I know what's going on - sannm, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2@DM01
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plastic
In that article last heading "Price, environment, and the future" second sentence in "However, in recent years the cost of plastics has been rising dramatically. The cause of the increase is the sharply rising cost of petroleum, the raw material that is chemically altered to form commercial plastics."
Thanks for not even reading the article you cited as a refution to the argument...have a nice day. - rheaume, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1We need electric vehicles NOW so they can derive their record profits from the plastics industry (While they can)
- HerrEisenheim, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Rubber is made from heavier crude oil, which although it may or may not be more expensive to extract based on it's specific API gravity, it is far more abundant and fetches a far lower price due to its higher sulfur content. It is somewhat "unaffected" by the rise in demand for lighter crude and light crude blends, which are used in gasoline.
If the world didn't need light/sweet oil, there wouldn't be a problem. There's plenty of the crappy stuff to go around. - LordZodd, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1True, limited refining capacity in the US is hitting us now; more so than the price per barrel of oil.
- bsteng0147, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3Too bad my money doesn't go into more than just gas pumps.
- EatingPie, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Ever got tar on your feet at the beaches between Santa Barbara and County Line?
I've surfed Rincon -- one of the best waves in the world, and a few miles from an oil xfer station -- and the ocean itself REEKS of oil! THE OCEAN!
We need oil, therefore lets open refineries? GREEN ONES? Ever seen any proposals fit that bill? Which will be cheap enough to be implemented?
The problem is oil reliance. As the article proves, it's far worse than most people think. Indeed, we need further reaching solutions than power consumption... but just drilling for more oil... how does that solve the problem in the end?
-Pie - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1i drive to my apartment complex office instead of walking
- vatosplace, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Hey good thing the oil companies are raking in record profits. Those GOP victories in 2008 aren't going to pay for them selfs.
- obby, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"once the oil truly starts to run out, we may all be able to shut down our militaries!"
Nope, can't buy that for a second. You will developed countries turning on developed countries to get the last of the oil. Conscription, drafts and all sorts of other things will come from running out of oil.
"The cost of products WILL go up if gas prices climb, but I would be willing to bet that it's more so because of increased costs of TRANSPORT rather than any other factor."
Yes and the fact that it will no longer be feasible to ship $1 cheap Chinese parts to America. If prices rise sharply, then you can bet there will be a recession at the very least. - TheNik, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I actually didn't know ink was made from petroleum. Sadly, printer cartridges remain price gouged.
- jsffive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Sure. SOME oil goes into making other products...
But in this country, something like ninety percent of it goes into our gas tanks. The cost of products WILL go up if gas prices climb, but I would be willing to bet that it's more so because of increased costs of TRANSPORT rather than any other factor.
We don't have an addiction to oil folks, despite what our President says. Believing anything he says about oil is akin to believing what your crack dealer says about cocaine!
No. Our addiction is to MOBILITY.
...................... - russellnation, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1yeah! lets make the same products out of oil ,a diminishing resource, which we could make from hemp, a PLANT.......
seems a little stupid to me. - SanTe, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"But in this country, something like ninety percent of it goes into our gas tanks."
About 2/3 actually, but that doesn't change your point that we all need to use a lot less gasoline getting around and do all of our getting around in much shorter distances if at all possible (by living as close to work as possible, etc.). Commercial airlines as we know them need to go away (and will), as does the Air Force for that matter. 20,000 gallons of jet fuel per mile isn't exactly sustainable, and there is *no* other fuel source that can keep those things in the air.
In fact, once the oil truly starts to run out, we may all be able to shut down our militaries! Modern day militaries use ungodly amounts of oil to produce, maintain, and operate their equipment. Long range nukes will be about it, if we can continue to manufacture them! - rabidpancake, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Wasn't this a National Geo. article years ago?
- Charlotte_Web, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1There's different types of oil, though. The reason that OPEC is so wealthy is that they supply most of the light, sweet crude that we need to run our automobiles with.
The question is, What types of oil is needed to make all of those other products? If it's not LSC, then what OPEC does won't have significant impact on other petroleum-based industries. - HanSolo69, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1O RLY?
- HerrEisenheim, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0@bobcrotch
Oil is not universal. Not even barrel is the same. The price of oil can fall, but the price of gasoline can rise because gasoline is made from light crude with low sulfur content. Most gasolines are blends. Most blends contain a percentage of light/sweel oil. Most of that grade oil comes from the Middle East.
It's not different than the stock market. The DOW can close -50, but that doesn't mean that all stocks that day fell in value. - loup, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2You can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that US oil refineries are run at a reduced production rate to artificially raise the price of gasoline
- ChrisWren, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Balderdash! All plastic products and synthetics, for example, come from China, NOT from "oil". Everyone knows that.
- jimbo21, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Another little known fact about oil... it is currently the easiest and cheapest source of hydrogen (from breaking down the hydrocarbons)! Go fuel cells!
- BigSlacker, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0The "daily economics tip" should be that, like everything else, the cost of the different petroleum products is only partially based on the cost of the raw material.
- edebolt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0lots of alternatives will become viable if the price of hydrocarbons rise. Currently Oil and natural gas supply a bulk of industrial products. Otherwise these oil/NG byproducts would be waste and isn't using all of something and recycling better than wasting?
The whole fairytale of Peak Oil is hilarious in its naivety. For the past few decades oil has been really cheap.. $12-15 a barrel just a few years ago. It did not make sense for big companies to go looking for slightly more expensive oil resources. The cheap oil resources of the middle east etc cost about $5 a barrel to extract the oil. There are currently about 300 major oil well operations in the world. The Oil and Gas industry and its investors via of public corporations etc are just waiting to see if the prices stay high before they risk their money. Last time in the 70's everybody believed it was scarce and serious money was lost when it turned out to be plenty. For example if you developed an oil field that extracts oil at $15 a barrel and it only sells at $12 then you have a big problem. The same scenario is less likely to happen this time because investors are wary... There are lots of hydrocarbons out there that are just a little more expensive to liberate. Its just a question of picking the most attractive sources at the right time.
For example the largest hydrocarbon deposits currently documented are underneath the Rocky Mountains of the US and Canada. There is so much there it boggles the mind. The hitch is would cost about $50 a barrel to extract it with current technology. Will be a while before that makes economic sense and risk to begin extraction. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Yeah, I'd like to thank my Jr. High science teacher for posting this, very informative.
- ColonelJessup, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I love burning oil! It smells fantastic!
I buy oil just so I can burn it in a a drum! Then a bunch of hobos stand around it and warm their hands! Its GREAT! - BigSlacker, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Mobility = economy. The GDP is directly linked to energy usage.
- Cutkomp, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2Hemp could be used for many of the same things petro is used for and it also has it's own unique uses.
- glueicifer, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0Its like your life without zinc oxide
- UomodiRispetto, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0I work for a firm that Consults Crude Oil and Natural Gas Consumers and Producers in the Futures and Options Markets. Look up CLM7 to watch the current Crude contract.
- ejsocom, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2@DM01
You're a dumbass. Plastic IS manmade, but it's made with stuff including oil, therefore making a ton of stuff more expensive as as the prices of oil go up. -
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