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153 Comments
- ohboyscott, on 03/31/2009, -3/+34Very interesting stuff. I always love reading about these experiences. One day we will all have one, while dying, then we will know for sure what it is. Until then...
- CrankMyBlueSax, on 03/31/2009, -3/+31I have been having a near death experience my whole life, on a geologic time scale.
- thorstrongstone, on 04/01/2009, -5/+24But it's not that they can actually see what is occuring, but they are feeding off of auditory clues. Doctors, nurses and assistants say a lot during these occasions. Also, thanks to television and movies, people have many visual references to imagine, especially when queued by phrases of procedure.
- ifruit, on 04/01/2009, -1/+18Awareness of being dead 3.9% - Just saying, "Awareness of being dead" to myself is kind of scary.
- Loffer, on 04/01/2009, -5/+21Near death experiences are no mystery. Your brain secretes a chemical called Dimethyltryptamine (DMT) when you dream, but just a bit. However, when your brain knows that you are about to die, it secretes all of your DMT. People who experiment with DMT as a psychedelic drug say they have intense dream like trips completely different from LSD and psilocybin. They say it's like reliving your life in a dream like state.
- jerstud56, on 04/01/2009, -2/+16Preternaturally vivid sensations 86.3%
Tunnel experience 5.9%
Feeling of joy 58.8%
Awareness of being dead 3.9%
Sense of sudden understanding 35.3%
Life review 19.6%
Sense of a mystical entity 33.3%
Feeling of peace 74.5%
Altered sense of time 41.2%
Out-of-body experience 51%
So besides awareness of being dead, it's basically like being on a mind altering substance like DMT, shrooms, or LSD. That's awesome. - EasyTigerDon, on 04/01/2009, -14/+28When people can see surgeons operating on them while dead, then I'm sorry but a 'change in brain chemicals' just doesn't cut it.
- andyb747, on 04/01/2009, -3/+14a lot of experts in these comments......a lot of experts...
- Biscuitz, on 04/01/2009, -0/+11I had a near death experience, and I didn't see anything. =/ I felt as though I was flying through the air and it was dark, that was it.
- themadrammer, on 08/18/2009, -2/+12That's only the Christian view of the afterlife. There are others.
- inactive, on 04/01/2009, -1/+10One time I had this dream that the smoke detector was going off in my apartment and I was trying to convince my friend that we should probably get out of there because there could be a fire or something. I woke up, and the smoke detector was going off. Ultimately it turned out that one of the stoners downstairs was trying to make steak at 4:00 in the morning and accidently the whole steak. The point is, though, that from a simple auditory cue, I had perfectly recreated the scenario in my dream. Thus, I'm more inclined to think that they're just taking the information from their environment and recreating it based on that information. Maybe it's something else, but I think Occam's razor applies here - there is a known, understood biological process that could create the effects reported, so why resort to the supernatural?
- stk198323, on 04/01/2009, -2/+10Yes this would apply if they could recall basic details but in some case they remember jsut way too much! How could someone describe the model of drill they used to crack open her skull, I don't remember any episode of CSI or ER that explains how to differentiate the sound of the different drill models they can use when operating someone.
Of course on one side we have the religious fanatics that want us to believe this is our soul communicating with afterlife or whatever. But sadly on the other side we have scientist so bent on proving the other clan wrong that they don't try to come up with a valid theory that could make us understand what is happening exactly, they only try to find something that contradicts religious people and be satisfied with that butched explanation. - Qumahlin, on 04/01/2009, -0/+8That doesn't even count as near death i'm afraid. They stopped his heart and hooked him up to a circulatory machine. As far as his brain was concerned his heart was still there and he was still very much alive with all fluids flowing normally, he would have no reason to have a NDE and would have been sedated into sleep beforehand.
Now had you said his heart stopped for 5 minutes thereby leading to apoptosis and brain death while the doctors worked on him, then he was revived...that would be a NDE - kimmo, on 04/01/2009, -1/+9Do you want a near dead experience? Take some Ketamine. :P
- scoogle, on 04/01/2009, -5/+13I don't know, is there really a more rational explanation then a eternal cloudy paradise that's populated by ghosts. Couldn't be...
/s - derektherock42, on 04/01/2009, -2/+9My teacher had a heart problem last year, and to fix it, the doctors had to stop his heart for five full minutes. They did this, and now he's back at full speed. Though we always joke that he "died and came back", he doesn't remember anything at all from the experience. It was like being asleep; there was literally nothing to remember.
Sometimes, whenever there are extreme religious types around, he jokes that he smelled fire and smoke. - WhoDoneIt, on 04/01/2009, -2/+9I had some Taco Bell last night.
Near death experience was had this morning.
What did I feel? I definitely felt a rushing feeling. My arse felt cold for a moment and then a release through my body. - MrChunks, on 04/01/2009, -0/+7Always are. Lucky us.
- Decimit, on 04/01/2009, -5/+12You can't assume that because someone claims they saw something that it is accurate, especially considering the extreme strain someone's body and mind would be under during a "near death experience". It's known that when someone is dying, the mind goes through a process of releasing different chemicals and endorphins. This has been known to to cause drastic dream states in patients that have been resuscitated.
Combine this with the bits and pieces that could be seen and heard in an operating room from the patient before, during, and after a procedure. Consider the drugs and painkillers the patient might be on as well. Combine this with the fear, stress, and fatigue the person is going through. This could lead to a very vivid jumble of sights and sounds that can be interpreted in a vast array of ways by the individual experiencing them. Also keep in mind that memories are formed during and after an experience. People often create memories from many different sources that are not completely factual.
Saying a "change in brain chemicals just doesn't cut it" is being kind of naive in my opinion. It's jumping past the most reasonable explanation straight to something super natural for no reason. - BrainDance, on 04/01/2009, -3/+10This just isn't accurate. Sure Strassman played with the idea, but it just doesn't hold up to scientific scrutiny, and really the idea only passes around as an urban legend anymore.
DMT has never been found in the human brain, or any organ that secretes it. The closest thing is melatonin in the pineal gland, which is a tryptamine (with very little 5ht-2a agonism)
There has been DMT found in very small amounts in human blood, but not nearly enough to show anything besides the fact that a lot of different plants do produce DMT, and we eat a lot of those plants. MAO cant break it all down (with all the harmaline like MAOIs people ingest now, especially smokers) and that makes a far better explanation. - takamalak, on 04/01/2009, -1/+8Repent! You were on your way to H-E-double hockey sticks!
- thorstrongstone, on 04/01/2009, -0/+6All very good points.
- rrife, on 04/01/2009, -1/+7Make sure you blog about it though.
- thorstrongstone, on 04/01/2009, -2/+7@ Wing and STK
Wing, but neither you or I know her history. Maybe she had been in an operating room before, or maybe she had seen on in a documentary in colleger, or, or, or..... There are too many questions and not enough answers telling us of her history. But, as it is a possibility that some other force influenced her, jumping to the conclusion of an afterlife is hasty at best. Oh, and Rescue 911 was on at the time, not just simple ole Quincy.
STK. It is not about proving the other side wrong, as they have yet to prove anything. As Marcello Truzzi wrote and said "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof." As far as the model of the saw, the article only states that she described it. There is nothing that says she told them the model. - vidaliasweet, on 04/01/2009, -2/+7I don't know if there is life after death, but I'm more than happy to keep it a mystery until I get there. I hope science never finds the soul, never figures out a way to tap it, package it, or profit from it.
- alexsk8ca, on 04/01/2009, -4/+8Your brain is able to release a DMT like chemical, and it is found in (I think) pretty much every living thing. DMT can cause experiences described to be like those that happen in NDEs, and it would explain why the brain makes this chemical in the first place.
- Delphium226, on 04/01/2009, -1/+5Here's an idea - suspend an A4 sized picture a few feet from the ceiling in a horizontal position in some hospital rooms, with the picture facing upward. Then when people who have NDE's in those rooms 'come back' ask them what the picture was.
- RonADiSH, on 04/01/2009, -3/+7Watch the penn & teller episode about it, its all *****
- norman619, on 04/01/2009, -1/+5I have to laugh. Just because it's the most logical answer does not mean it is the correct explination. If you bother to really look into these cases there are those which defy any kind of logical explination. I doubt we will ever get a real answer as to what these experiences are. I'd love to know that these things are but most likely the only way to know is the die and I'm not THAT curious.
- tehmarko, on 04/01/2009, -0/+4Whoosh.
- asgardshill, on 04/01/2009, -0/+4Its completely anecdotal and you're perfectly entitled to dismiss any or all of it, but I didn't see any tunnels, starfields, Bearded White Guys Dressed in Bedsheets beckoning to me, or pearly gates with trillions of acorns lying around when I died in a 1969 accident (faulty gas jet in a cabin I was staying in). I went to sleep in the cabin and woke up on a gurney in the ER. The most unpleasant part of the whole experience was the cracked rib from the CPR and puking my guts out later, but the journey there was completely unremarkable. It was simply sleep, deep sleep, the best sleep I'd had in months. The attending told me that one doctor had already said, "Call It" (time of death), but the other kept doing CPR anyway and restarted my heart. So yes, I'm not dreading death when it comes for real for me - I've been there and its no big whoop.
- inactive, on 04/01/2009, -2/+5
In 2001, Dr. Pim van Lommel and his colleagues published a paper entitled "Near-death experience in survivors of cardiac arrest" (Lancet 2001; 358: 2039-45). Lancet is a well-respected scientific journal. Typically, a scientific journal would accept only papers with traditional scientific point of view. Dr. Lommel's paper is a rare exception. They found that induced experiences (such as by ketamine or electric stimulation) are not identical to NDE. Although some electric stimulation may induce flashes of recollection from the past, "these recollections, however, consist of fragmented and random memories unlike the panoramic life-review that can occur in NDE".
In the Discussion section, they also posed a very challenging question:
"How could a clear consciousness outside one's body be experienced at the moment that the brain no longer functions during a period of clinical death with flat EEG?.... Furthermore, blind people have described veridical perception during out-of-body experiences at the time of this experience. NDE pushes at the limits of medical ideas about the range of human consciousness and the mind-brain relation."
(Frank Lee, 2004) - Zelf24, on 04/01/2009, -1/+4...we're still alive!
- Qumahlin, on 04/01/2009, -0/+3Your brain actually produces it all the time, its just constantly metabolizing it. That is why if your a user of DMT looking to extend your trip you know to take an MAOI Inhibiter beforehand
- stk198323, on 04/01/2009, -1/+4''STK. It is not about proving the other side wrong, as they have yet to prove anything. ''
I totaly agree with that but sadly a lot of scientist doesn't. The theory they propose is far from complete and lots of case can't be explained by ''there view'' of what happens. I know some scientist try to make better theory to explain but a lot of those who suggest it seems like typical Atheist zealot: religion doesn't existe and god neither so that's what happen and that's all. This can give us some information but sadly it doesn't explain enaugh for people like me (I'm not religious at all) to think that we have a valide theory.
Look at the article, it's full of scientist quote that prooves some of those scientist just want to prove it has nothing to do with God but don't really care about a complete theory of NDE. - Frostek, on 04/01/2009, -1/+4What relevance does the Bible have to the current discussion?
- Bots, on 04/01/2009, -0/+3lol. as soon as i saw the article i hit CTRL-F and searched for 'DMT' in the thread. glad someone has some knowledge about it.
DMT is a naturally occurring chemical that your brain releases in heavy REM sleep as well as right before death. So essentially when you are dreaming.. you are tripping balls. You can actually extract the chemical from TONS of natural sources. The most easiest to extract from is Phalaris grass. If you read up on DMT experiences people have with the it you would almost link those same experiences to ones that people have in their 'near-death' experiences. Its very interesting stuff to say the least. - RonADiSH, on 04/01/2009, -1/+4I love how people try to bury your comment.. the truth is hard to hear sometimes i guess
- Qumahlin, on 04/01/2009, -1/+4Life and death are unquantifiable abstracts
- nitsuj, on 04/02/2009, -0/+3"and for the people who dont believe in god/ jesus keep trying to prove the bible wrong cause you never will..."
Many, many parts of the bible have been shown to be fallacious or historical distortions. Sorry to break that to you.
"bad science and atheism is all work of yhe devil but luckly god gave us free will so we can always change"
If I were you I'd be miffed at god for giving you free will but leaving out rational thought. - WorldGroove, on 04/01/2009, -3/+5"A lot of people can't accept that as soon as they die it REALLY is all over."
You don't know that, though.
Nobody really knows if it's all over after death. What makes us self-aware? Do we have "souls"? Or are we just an insane combination of chemical reactions and nothing more? Are we more than the sum of our parts?
I'm not saying there's definitely a heaven/hades, but nobody knows if our concisousness is really obliterated into nothingness. - stonebear, on 04/01/2009, -0/+2"We" meaning...cynical internet trolls?
- atsguy, on 04/01/2009, -0/+2If you want to have a lucid dream/ out of body experience it is really ***** easy!
go here and use the rhythmic napping timer technique. It basically gets you on the awake asleep threshold to experience oobes or lucid dreams...and its so simple, just wake up in the morning, and turn on the timer...
http://www.lucidology.com/timer/
also go to this site it has some good info too;
http://www.saltcube.com/obe-guide/ - frequentFlyer, on 04/01/2009, -0/+2...and that's really all that we do know.
- inactive, on 04/01/2009, -0/+2I wish the study had included whether the people who saw the light and dead relatives were Christians. Perhaps that would explain why not everyone saw them.
- inactive, on 04/01/2009, -4/+6We figured this out a long time ago.
When your brain gets the "shut off" signal, it dumps chemicals and the results are a realistic hallucination of sorts.
So all the ***** people see with their relatives waving to them, floating above the body, blah blah, all a result of this chemical (I believe it's DMT, the same chemical used to create your dream-like states)]
Kinda like when you take LSD and see demons - there are no demons. It's in your head. So is heaven. - Birdoftruth, on 04/01/2009, -0/+2oh yes Penn and Teller. The ones who "threw down" NLP and Recycling..haha
/s - lostlyrics, on 04/01/2009, -0/+2nevermind. eventually even you
might gather a near-life experience - cmaxster, on 04/01/2009, -0/+2Well spiritual and science debate aside, I'm glad that the death experience (at least hte beginning) sounds more often to be a euphoric calming experience versus a terrifying pitchfork in your ass experience. Amen to that.
- BrainDance, on 04/01/2009, -0/+2I don't see what endorphins would have to do with this, strong opioids can cause bizarre dreams, but its a stretch to say that any action there,outside of the kappa opioid system, and activity there would be far more akin to hell, would cause a near death experience.
I'm just not seeing where you're drawing a connection with neuropeptides with a major and understood role in the human body, and substituted tryptamines.
And of course the brain goes through all sorts of changes involving different neuro-chemicals at death, this is true with about every single human experience.
I don't know where you're getting that an orgasm would be painful, that sounds like an urban legend. Are there some strange modified nociceptors in erectile tissue I don't know about that you're referring to?
Stronger synthetic opioids like fentanyl and its analogues do in fact lead to decreased endorphin production (not all opioids do that, its no longer seen as the main mechanism of addiction.) And when that happens, everything becomes painful. That's how nociception, endorphins and enkephalins work, so then in that case an orgasm would be painful, but so would be brushing your teeth. -
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