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891 Comments
- Zippo, on 10/06/2008, -97/+559If you believe God does not exist - you're an atheist.
If you believe the answer is unknown and/or unattainable - that there may or may not a be a god - you're agnostic.
It's not that hard. - sephiroth965, on 10/06/2008, -55/+221The idea that atheism is the belief that there absolutely isn't a god is a common misconception. I'm an atheist. I have never claimed to KNOW that god doesn't exist, I simply don't believe there is a god in the same exact way I don't believe there are leprechauns. There is no proof of either one. I'll concede that technically there COULD be a completely invisible imperceptible man in the sky, but I won't believe there is until someone can show me some empirical evidence. That's what atheism is. Aside from that, it's impossible to disprove the existence of anything(including leprechauns, dragons, or god).
- solstice21, on 10/06/2008, -31/+156I'm an agnostic, and I'm certain of my agnosticism.
Because I'm willing to admit that it's impossible for us as mere humans to ever know if or the nature of a supernatural existence.
I can test gravity by dropping a pen. No, I'm not certain that the pen will always fall to the floor, but there is no test I can perform to further my understanding of God, only speculation.
It's called humility. If God does exist I'm not going to be the one with the arrogance to tell God that I know what God is all about because I thought about it a whole lot. I will humbly admit that despite all my study and meditation, I was never able to actually know in the same way that I know that a pen will fall to the ground. - nedzeve, on 10/06/2008, -4/+109According to Gallup polls, 1 in 12 Americans don't believe that the Bird is the Word.
- scott12087, on 10/06/2008, -63/+164You basically just gave the definition of an agnostic, not an atheist....
- thechr0nic, on 10/06/2008, -10/+92Seems like a lot of people mis-interpreted the meaning of this article.
This article only seems to try to point out the burden of proof. Of course the burden of proof lying with the person making the 'positive' claim.
FTA:
---------------------------
1. An atheist believes that God does not exist.
2. An atheist does not believe that God exists.
---------------------------
The author would prefer the second definition, where a positive claim is not being made, in that the atheist 'does not believe' as opposed to the atheist 'believes'... - MWeather, on 10/06/2008, -6/+80Ask an agnostic if God exists and they'll say they don't know because it's never been proven or disproven.
Ask the same person if they believe in leprechauns, and they'll say no. - kocurejd, on 10/06/2008, -3/+64Also, leprechauns do exist. They live in Imaginationland.
- inactive, on 10/06/2008, -7/+66I worship Odin the All Father! Father of Thor, Odin rides on his mighty 6 legged steed Sleipnir and wields the powerful spear Gungnir! Tremble before the might of the King of Valhalla!
- DMoney16, on 10/06/2008, -1/+59Their server has felt the wrath of god, mirror anyone?
- brokenex, on 10/06/2008, -7/+61Agnostic = Belief we cannot know whether or not god exists - logically this is because of a lack of empirical evidence we can comprehend
For atheism the author made the argument that "2. An atheist does not believe that God exists." is the best definition for atheism.
If we hold that definition to be true then:
Atheist = Does not think we have the evidence to warrant belief in god.
Thus the degrees of separation between atheists and agnostics is slim and results from semantics and avoidance of confrontation. - zorpscorp, on 10/06/2008, -6/+52No self-respecting atheist would claim to have a way to prove God doesn't exist.
They simply don't believe there is one,
"According to definition" I'm BOTH an atheist AND agnostic (though I like to claim Apatheism). Since there's obviously no way to prove God doesn't exist, there's no reason for me to believe in a god. It's like asking if you're agnostic or atheist about invisible magical unicorns.
I guess you could have agnostic deists, ones that acknowledge there's no way to know if there's a god, but believe in one anyways. - grungegbunny, on 10/06/2008, -10/+51I consider myself Atheist. While i will not rule out the possibility of a god or gods completely I put it on par with the probability that dragons, unicorns, smurfs exist: almost zero. They all share the same amount of evidence.
- eatasandwich, on 10/06/2008, -6/+38This is an example of digg/social news distorting the actual article b/c people don't read properly.
You can be an atheist AND be agnostic. If someone claims that they don't know if god exists they can still have no belief in god. In fact, by claiming you're agnostic and that you don't know if there is a god there is a good chance you have no belief in god. Therefore you can describe yourself as an agnostic and atheist.
The dugg guy at the top of this thread is demonstrating ignorance - the misconception that the article is attempting to put right. - thechr0nic, on 10/06/2008, -8/+39you missed the point of this article; Further more, the definition for atheism you chose, implies a positive assertion that god does not exist, putting the burden of proof on you.
The author suggests in the article that the better definition would read: The atheist 'does not believe' that god exists. - mikepictor, on 10/06/2008, -8/+39I've always prefered
atheist: believes God does not exist
theist: believes God does exist
agnostic: Does not suppose to feel they *know* the answer
gnostic: feels pretty certain they have the correct answer
Personally, I think you can easily have an agnostic atheist, and I tend to consider myself one. I don't think God exists, but that's based on no more than a gut sense, and I make no claims at really knowing whether that's true or not. - Saitekc, on 10/06/2008, -13/+42People only follow religion because they can't come to terms with the fact that there is nothing after death. Get over it people
- theodenking, on 10/06/2008, -3/+32No, it's not hard. But that doesn't change the fact that that's not how most people understand either word. Bertrand Russell summed it up in 1949, and nothing has changed:
“As a philosopher, if I were speaking to a purely philosophic audience I should say that I ought to describe myself as an Agnostic, because I do not think that there is a conclusive argument by which one can prove that there is not a God. On the other hand, if I am to convey the right impression to the ordinary man in the street I think that I ought to say that I am an Atheist, because, when I say that I cannot prove that there is not a God, I ought to add equally that I cannot prove that there are not the Homeric gods.” - bigfatpaulie, on 10/06/2008, -12/+40Agnostics find discussions like this to be a huge waste of everyone's time. Atheists can be just as annoying as theists in this regard.
- ThreeE, on 10/06/2008, -5/+33Heresay only. He probably just said be nice to each other. He was a nice, mortal guy. It is his fan club that is nuts.
- rodrigo74, on 10/06/2008, -2/+29I understand your point, but at the same time I find it funny: why people get so philosophical, humble and deferential when talking about the existence (or non-existence) of god, while they have no philosophical problems whatsoever declaring that fairies and unicorns don't exist either? Why the special treatment when it comes to the Abrahamic god?
You make the exact same question about fairies and god ("does it exist?") and for one you get a quick "no" or at worst an one-liner, and the other you get a fracking epistemological treaty..weird. It smells like intellectual cowardice, or an unnecessary need to be "religiously correct" - BXRWXR, on 10/06/2008, -1/+27I don't know if there is a god or not, but whoever runs that site needs to pray for better hardware.
- myFriendDerrik, on 10/06/2008, -10/+36I find your lack of lack of faith disturbing.
- c0mputar, on 10/06/2008, -3/+28Agnostic Atheist - No proof of a god, and doesn't believe in one(lack of faith in a god). This is not the same as belief in no god(faith in no god).
Gnostic Atheist - Those that I know of that fall in this category, prescribed to the definition as followed: Knows there is no god, just like we know that we evolved from apes. Both require a level of certainty, and neither are absolute knowledge. I consider myself one, and if you wish to debate me on how I have certainty in my claim, then leave a reply.
Agnostic - There is no proof of god, nor is there proof of no god. Some of these people do not believe(lack of faith in a god) in a god, and so could be classified as Agnostic Atheists. Same could be said for Agnostic Theists and Deists.
Deist - The belief in a creator or god that kick started the universe. This initial kick off is continuously pushed back further and further into history as we learn more about the universe. Most deists believe this creator is non-interventionist, and our existence may have come by unintentionally as a result of our observed scientific laws.
Agnostic Theist - There is no proof of god, but they believe in a god(have faith in a god) and a set of beliefs.
Gnostic Theist - They know there is a god, and they follow a set of beliefs.
Which one are you? - chimpandzee, on 10/06/2008, -4/+28So I consider myself an agnostic and here's how it boils down for me.
I can't possibly believe in any organised religion's idea of God. At once supremely benevolent and at other times the angriest force in existence (or not!). That coupled with the massive amount of paradoxes and logical fallacies in all the holy books and the general nature of organised religion just dont make sence.
On the other hand though, I need only to look at the incredible order around me: the fractal nature of trees; the forces described by physics; the incredibly complex, but somehow coherent way that humans, and other animals, act individualy and as groups; ; and also the obscenely bizzare niches filled by evolution - I mean, just take a look at the pistol shrimp - make me feel that there is something undeniably pulling all this together. I dont necessarily believe that "god" (for lack of a better word) is a sentient or concious being though. Maybe my god is just the mathematician underlying the laws of physics. - inactive, on 10/06/2008, -2/+26I would argue that many "atheists" are actually "anti-theists", like myself.
- inactive, on 10/06/2008, -2/+26so what makes a religious person believe their God over a leprechaun?
- Adamande, on 10/06/2008, -2/+25Logical fallacy. I agree there is a burden of proof involved, but it's 100% on the shoulders of religious people. You can't ask an atheist to disprove something that hasn't even been proven.
I'm an atheist, and I will continue to be one until one of the myriads of religions actually prove their chosen deity exists. If one of the religions, let's say Hinduism, presents unquestionable proof of Shiva's existence and I STILL deny Shiva, THEN I will have to prove my position. Until then, I don't have any problems uttering the sentence "I don't believe there is a god" cause I have no proof and no good reason to believe there is one. - 0zymandias, on 10/06/2008, -1/+24What a shame. You're spot on - yet no one is digging you up. To understand the words look at the roots:
Theism: having belief in god or gods.
Atheism: not having belief in god or gods.
Gnosticism: (Greek: γνώσις gnōsis, knowledge): When used with theism, is used to refer to one who has absolute knowledge that a god, or gods exist. A gnostic atheist (though I know of none) would, by contrast, claim to have knowledge that no gods exist.
Agnosticism: Not claiming knowledge that gods exist.
I'd argue that we are all agnostic in that no one has 'knowledge' of gods and yet differ in our beliefs.
- pp7k, on 10/06/2008, -0/+22Taken down by a noodly appendage. The FSM disapproves of both atheism and agnosticism.
- purzzzell, on 10/06/2008, -0/+22which is atheism.
- MacParrot, on 10/06/2008, -4/+25Always after me Lucky Charms!
- emt1451, on 10/06/2008, -2/+23You aren't agnostic. You are a theist.
- Chronictrees, on 10/06/2008, -2/+23I believe in something, just nothing. *fixed
- DeLtAIjK, on 10/06/2008, -1/+21You're not being dugg down because of your faith - I'm glad you enjoy Islam.
You're being dugg down for trying to cram a religion down my throat.
Just... y'know, fyi. - danielsan79, on 10/06/2008, -2/+22By your logic, you should believe in anything no matter how preposterous. This is not how science works. Science is based on evidence. There currently is no evidence for the existence of God.
Any atheist who definitively states there is no God is on the same level as a theist who claims for a fact there is one. - autorock, on 10/06/2008, -5/+24No, scott12087, sephiroth965 is right to call himself an atheist by his definition (and is pretty much word for word on the same plane as Richard Dawkins!). There is a difference between knowledge and belief. An atheist can lack definitive knowledge of whether or not there is a god while simultaneously believing that there is not.
- agaiziunas, on 10/06/2008, -1/+20I argue the fact we are all POLYatheists (there are thousands of gods we don't believe in), and therefore are 99.9% similar in all our beliefs. But as predicated in human history, the 0.01% difference will be enough to drive an imaginary wedge between us.
- noelsusman, on 10/06/2008, -1/+19"It's nigh impossible to prove a negative you know"
ORLY!?!?! The Earth does not revolve around the Sun. That's a negative, and I'm fairly certain that it has been proven wrong.
The problem with the theory of God is that it is virtually impossible to disprove. Pretty much any research standards out there will tell you that a theory that is not falsifiable is not a viable theory. Therefore, disbelieving in god is not "unscientific." Atheism is merely a response to Theism and nothing else. The theist says "God exists" and the atheist says "I don't see any evidence for that; therefore, I don't believe you." - omgJOHN, on 10/06/2008, -1/+19For the most part I believe myself to be completely atheist. I never really believed the stories I was told as I was growing up and just sort of went along with it.
I became skeptical later and labeled myself agnostic. As I became more and more skeptical I realized that I really was no longer agnostic but completely atheist, which was sort of a tough decision to make. I was essentially giving up on something that I had been taught even before I started going to school.
I try to be accepting of others beliefs, but a big part of me can't help the feeling that their fooling themselves. It's tough to keep it in check. - Jikul, on 10/06/2008, -4/+21You are not agnostic. You are religious, but probably your religion hasn't yet been invented.
Oh, and please... don't try... - dezweber, on 10/06/2008, -3/+20@sardiskan - philosophically? You're a dumbass.
- Zomgondo, on 10/06/2008, -0/+16There's an invisible dragon in my garage... and if you don't believe you're being unscientific and illogical!
- DetpackJump, on 10/06/2008, -2/+17This correction will show up alot in this thread, but to be precise:
atheist: does not believe that God exists - Key2gb, on 10/06/2008, -13/+28One thing I have Always wondered:
why. the. *****. does it matter
seriously
I believe in what I believe in, why do I have to put a label on it? So we can fight about what those labels mean and then tell other people they fit into one or the other? Awesome.
What religion are you? lolz - garrettg84, on 10/06/2008, -1/+16http://74.125.45.104/search?q=cache:http://www.eri ...
Google Cache - Plain Text - oxilite, on 10/06/2008, -3/+18Whats the difference between Agnostic and Apathetic?
I dont know and I dont care. - cinloykko, on 10/06/2008, -2/+16please dont ***** around, smurfs exists!!!
- acparks1, on 10/06/2008, -1/+15I prefer the term nontheist.
- hnilsen, on 10/06/2008, -3/+17I don't believe in a God or any such existance. But if a God came to me, and showed me all of his powers, what heaven and hell is and all that - I'd apologize and change my mind.
But I'm willing to bet my left arm that's not going to happen. And I'm an atheist, not an agnostic. And I don't feel arrogant at all. -
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