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1421: The Year China Discovered America

cnn.com — Gavin Menzies claims that a massive Chinese fleet of huge junks and support ships made a two-year circumnavigation of the globe, with extensive exploration of the Americas, nearly a century before Magellan and Columbus.

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  • donttaseme, on 01/01/2008, -55/+16Stop changing history! When we can't even get our fact straight about Columbus. or 2001
    • Nitesmoke, on 01/01/2008, -14/+6Misleading title, how the hell is 1421 a century before 1492? thats only 3/4 of a century.
      • logiik, on 01/01/2008, -4/+9Read: nearly
        • nospinhere, on 01/02/2008, -1/+369 years is not anywhere "near" 100. It's actually closer to half a century, why didn't they use that?
          • Pssdoff, on 01/02/2008, -0/+3Uh, that would be 71 years. Columbus discovered North America in 1492, not 1490. Magellan left in 1519 which is almost a century, and Leif Eiriksson found North America around 1000 AD.
        • EditorResponse, on 01/02/2008, -1/+3Over the past year Chinese have also laid claim to paper to write on, break dancing and modern weapons. I can assure you they did neither. In another fifty to one hundred years of modernization, bootstrapping them firmly into the twentieth century these near-cromagnons(in living conditions) will really start to pour it on. Just remember, a bottle rocket or fireworks is not the same thing as a handgun, rifle or cannon. While the Chinese claim to have invented many things they fell short in seeing an application for many of the things they discovered and Europeans stepped in to do it.
      • XopherMV, on 01/01/2008, -0/+9Actually, the title is misleading because Erik the Red discovered and settled in America in 982. There's even speculation that earlier Norsemen both discovered and tried to settle it before him.

        Or, if you really want to call it misleading, then you can state that the Native Americans originally discovered America about 10,000 years ago.
        • EditorResponse, on 01/02/2008, -6/+1I am sure that Native Americans did not have to discover "North America" they probably migrated here when the Earth's main mass of land was Pangea.
          • Metman, on 01/02/2008, -0/+3Actually it has been theorized that they walked the ice bars around 1830 b.c. but who knows....
        • mhensley1288, on 01/02/2008, -0/+5wrong. they came across the bering straight. there were no humans 250 million years ago when the continents formed pangea.
    • moofer, on 01/01/2008, -4/+6Huh... wonder why they didn't stay. Maybe they didn't have any turkeys or cranberry sauce.
      • Mercedes383, on 01/01/2008, -0/+3I read the book. They were looking for advanced people to contact in order to set up diplomatic relations and trade with. Plus the Cranberry sauce just didn't cut it.
    • PaulOwen, on 01/01/2008, -10/+3The Imperiarist West wir no longer repress the Chinee brirriance at grobar circumnavigation.

      Long live our beroved and physically superior Chairman!
    • XopherMV, on 01/01/2008, -0/+7As I already mentioned, the title is misleading because Erik the Red discovered and settled in America in 982. There's even speculation that earlier Norsemen both discovered and tried to settle it before him.

      Or, if you really want to call it misleading, then you can state that the Native Americans originally discovered America about 10,000 years ago.
      • warnergt, on 01/02/2008, -0/+1They weren't Native Americans when they discovered America. Think about it.
        • XopherMV, on 01/05/2008, -0/+1They certainly weren't Chinese since China is only 5,000 years old. Plus, those people came from the part of Asia that is modern Russia.
  • internetslacker, on 01/01/2008, -15/+171Vikings still have everyone beat.
    • ElAssoWipo, on 01/01/2008, -11/+105Nope. Natives.

      You can't discover a continent that been habited for more than 6,000 years by hundreds of thousands of people.
      • Nitesmoke, on 01/01/2008, -39/+15We know there were natives in the americas. Today we celebrate columbus, because he "discovered" the americas for europe, who then began to colonize it. it may not be pc, but columbus brought the "civilized" world to the americas. no one believes that columbus was the first to set foot in the americas, but he opened the door for its civilization. and dont go on about how whitey came and killed off all the natives, that was how land was acquired in those days, by conquering it. every country on earth was inhabited by natives before they became the countries they are today.
        • ElAssoWipo, on 01/01/2008, -25/+46Civilization?

          You mean christianity and genocide, right?

          Are you saying that natives and their hundreds of different ethnicities and clans didn't constitute civilization?
        • pegisys, on 01/01/2008, -7/+38So the civilized colonist savagely acquired land instead of sharing it the way the savage natives were willing to do.

          The concept of the natives being savage and uncivilized is so that they could conscientiously slaughter a group of people.
        • ezco506th, on 01/01/2008, -7/+10What a noble civilization he brought with him. As long as that is how land was acquired back then, I guess it's ok then... *****.
          • Nitesmoke, on 01/01/2008, -13/+6Yeah, kill whitey!! natives were noble tribes who never had wars with each other they shared the land. white people are so evil, if it werent for whites, earth would have never had war or disease or poverty. every problem everyone has ever had was because of whites.
            before columbus, all the natives were living in total harmony with each other and mother nature. kill whitey!!!
          • ElAssoWipo, on 01/01/2008, -3/+4@ nitesmoke

            You were born 400 years too late.
          • Chaoticfist, on 01/01/2008, -7/+4This is to Nitesmoke Its not letting me reply to him......


            Ya very Civilized of you......Blame everyone of a certain skin color and demand they die. With you logic we should kill all Arabs because some Arabs flew a plane into the World Trade Centers, also we should killl black people because they tend to be involved in more crime than others. You know what while we are at it, lets just kill everyone (some one of every race has done something bad)

            I agree that the means that Europeans used to take over the Americas was not nice, but tough *****. That was hundreds of years ago. You cant blame people who had nothing to do with it. Also what are you going to do kick all non natives from North America?
          • Flayum, on 01/01/2008, -1/+4Again to Nitesmoke...

            Your comment is rank with ignorance. Native American tribes did, in fact, have many numerous- although not large- conflicts over territory. The Mongols weren't white, yet they conquered nearly all of Asia... they failed to invade Japan giving rise to the word 'Kamikaze' in reference to the storm which destroyed the invading Mongolian fleet. All people, no matter the color of their skin, engage in conflict and invasion... it's the nature of man- not the white man, but all man.
        • InfiniteNothing, on 01/01/2008, -1/+5Of course, the native americans are all really asian right? No really, they are
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Models_of_migration_t ...
        • bobburn, on 01/01/2008, -5/+6infinite, no really, they aren't. DNA evidence shows that similarities in genetic structure are profound in Alaskan and some Canadian natives, but the vast majority of Amerindians have no more in common with asians than with the rest of the human populations. Also, 6,000 years ago? No..In South America there are some sites dating back 50-60 thousand years.
        • XopherMV, on 01/01/2008, -5/+4The Native Americans were a stone-age group of tribes that were so undeveloped that they hadn't even gotten to the point of inventing the wheel. They slaughtered and massacred each other long before Europeans set foot on their shore, offering up human sacrifices to the sun god in the case of the Aztecs. To call that civilization, as we know the term, is a joke. To say that the Europeans were more savage is a joke.

          Europeans also settled in Africa, Australia, India, and China. The only long-term colonization that occurred happened in Australia and America. Why didn't European populations dominate Africa, India, and China? The answer lies in geography and biology. The humans in Australia and America were geographically isolated from the rest of the human population. They did not develop the immune resistance to diseases that ravaged European, African, and Asian humans. So, when Europeans showed up in America or Australia, the native communities were wiped out from their diseases. THAT was the main difference in the colonization results in America and Australia compared to Africa, India, and China.
          • ElAssoWipo, on 01/01/2008, -4/+2Did the Grand Dragon teach you that?

            I can't even believe people who think like this still exist. Just the fact that you clearly have no clue about your own history amazes me. But to qualify natives as a bunch of savages who massacred each other... I hadn't read that since I studied feodal England during the colonization era.

            You're like a human anachronism.
          • sinbot, on 01/02/2008, -2/+4@ElAssoWipo

            It's true though. Native Americans (North and South) were violent, bloodthirsty and slaughtering each other.

            Sure there are some redeeming qualities. They weren't as noble as you make them out to be though.
          • ElAssoWipo, on 01/02/2008, -1/+2Wow. The point is that europe did the same. Still doing it today, in fact.
    • KaiserArny, on 01/01/2008, -2/+28Not Only hundreds of thousands, Millions. In Mexico alone they were over 25 million.The natives were 1st from Asia. Maybe latter Polynesians. Then the Vikings.... And in between all kinds of other people. Columbus was not the first. But neither were the Chinese.
      • InfiniteNothing, on 01/01/2008, -5/+4You just said first from Asia. They could have been Chinese :)
    • carguy84, on 01/01/2008, -9/+9Almost 600 years ago, you would think they would know the roads a little better by now, but no, there they are, 14mph with their blinker on.
      • boflaade, on 01/02/2008, -0/+1Speeds were slower then. Research has advanced with newer technology. Also, communication of facts was "politically correct as it is now.
  • mf0thrilla, on 01/01/2008, -19/+238Vikings? Columbus? I don't want to get PC on everyone, but weren't the Native Americans already here? Aztecs, American Indians? I guess brown people aren't considered within the realm of historical fact.
    • tehbored, on 01/01/2008, -13/+129Yeah but they walked here so it doesn't count. Real men take ships, not some sissy land bridge.
      • Azselendor, on 01/01/2008, -4/+20Speaking as a Native American, you are all wetbacks. :P
        • Maddoktor2, on 01/01/2008, -7/+1Oh, Snap! I saw what you did there... ;-)
        • chijim70, on 01/02/2008, -0/+1That's just good comedy lol. I'm 4th native american (Chippewa) and yeah we were doin fine until the "civilized" people showed up.
      • fluxion, on 01/01/2008, -1/+3yar!
    • Napoleone, on 01/01/2008, -7/+30Seriously, right. If American natives had made a trip to Europe, would it have been a discovery or a "coming upon"?
      • pw378, on 01/01/2008, -0/+14Depends if they conquered Europe and had the luxury of writing history themselves...
      • PyrotekNX, on 01/03/2008, -0/+1History is written by the winners.
    • UncleCrapper, on 01/01/2008, -15/+58Taking the strictest interpretation of the book title (and if the facts presented are true), then China DID discover America in 1421. For themselves. The Vikings, indigenous peoples and perhaps others also discovered America for themselves at different times.

      That said, we need to stop being so Euro-centric in our portrayal of world history.
      • ImagineFreedom, on 03/12/2008, -12/+24Having read the book, the facts are pretty straightforward and indisputable. It was likely that Columbus received maps from the Chinese fleet and didn't sail into the unknown, but rather had fairly precise knowledge of what he'd find.
        It's a well-written and fascinating tome. Check it out.
        And you're right, multiple groups can be discoverers - so long as they didn't have previous knowledge of its existence.
        • UncleCrapper, on 01/01/2008, -7/+5Thank you, I will put this book on my "to purchase" list. It sounds like a fascinating read.
        • attackingpencil, on 01/01/2008, -7/+11Indisputable? the research and "facts" in the book are horribly shoddy
          • ta10n, on 01/01/2008, -3/+6.... kinda like your comment?
          • sinbot, on 01/02/2008, -0/+1I'm glad someone said it.
          • boflaade, on 01/02/2008, -0/+1Perhaps you didn't read the updated pages. Just let us know which of the pages confused you, so we can help you comprehend.
      • hiikeeba, on 01/01/2008, -2/+3I thought it was a pretty good read, even if some of his facts are fuzzy. While he can't prove the trip, his arguments are plausible.
    • Timmetie, on 01/01/2008, -26/+12Why shouldn't we be Euro-centric about it? Native Americans, Polynesians, vikings and Chinese may very well have found it earlier but did not do anything (or not enough) with it. The continent now speaks England, French, Portuguese and Spanish; not Chinese, Inca or Sioux. In nations where this didn't happen (coastal Africa, India, China etc) nobody talks about the European discovery, they talk about "contact". The Chinese would have had a decades head start to colonize the Western parts of America. And the native Americans had 1000s of years of a head start in the latest theories.
      • booshack, on 01/01/2008, -2/+16Ehm vikings were european..
        • Timmetie, on 01/01/2008, -9/+4so were the Indians once, and before that we were all African. Do you really want to get into semantics about this?
        • Myonosken, on 01/01/2008, -0/+2No the the native Indians were Russian.
        • boflaade, on 01/02/2008, -0/+1Scandinavians!
      • ElAssoWipo, on 01/01/2008, -6/+16Holy ***** ***** white man's burden in 2008. Go back to the middle ages you ***** degenerate.

        Should we also start colonizing Africa again? They aren't doing much with their natural ressources, maybe we should go for another genocide so we can "exploit the land better".

        What you just said is why the natives were massacred, why Africans were massacred, why black people were slaves, etc. It's idiotic and ethnocentric on top of being from the bible.
        • Timmetie, on 01/01/2008, -8/+5This is a question of history, and denying it does not make it less true.. I get America's sensitivity about appearing racist and all but it still has to be said or things like that will happen again. And are actually already happening in underdeveloped countries everywhere. Given, it's all a bit more sophisticated now but as damning as slavery and colonization was then.

          Also, don't go off on people who's comments you obviously did not understand you ***** moron.
        • ElAssoWipo, on 01/01/2008, -2/+6"Native Americans, Polynesians, vikings and Chinese may very well have found it earlier but did not do anything (or not enough) with it."

          There aren't 6 different ways of interpreting this. That's the definition of white man's burden.
        • Mercedes383, on 01/01/2008, -2/+2I believe you missed what the comment was aimed at. He has speaking in the context to historical memory and legacy. Not the rights and wrongs of it.
        • LeeSoong, on 01/01/2008, -0/+2Should we also start colonizing Africa again?

          Ah, what makes you think it stopped ?

          Plenty of multinational corporations cutting down forests, mining for minerals and gems, etc.

          Modern day colonization is 'Business as Usual'.
      • mark_in_bc, on 01/01/2008, -2/+2In most history books it is said that Marco Polo discovered China.
    • amightywind, on 01/01/2008, -18/+5Their skins are red not brown.
    • mirunit, on 01/01/2008, -1/+6If the Native Americans/Aztecs/Myans had discovered Europe it would have been a different story. Although, I thought that the Chinese ended foreign expeditions in favor of isolationism before the 1400s. They should have been capable of such a journey around the world, but whether they did or not I believe is up for debate.

      "Menzies focuses on a fortuitous synchronicity: the presence of a Venetian trader named Niccolo da Conti, who met with the Chinese in the southwest Indian trading hub of Calicut. Da Conti made detailed records of his contact. By Menzies' reckoning, it was da Conti who corroborated the thesis that Chinese junks rounded the Cape of Good Hope, westward bound for points unknown.

      Such synchronicity followed Menzies as his research took him deeper along the Chinese trade routes. He retraced the junks' routes around the globe and found shoreside marker stones, carved in a host of Asian languages, all over the world. "

      It could be possible that Conti himself wanted to go west and the best way to get forces in Europe to do that was convince them that the Chinese could beat them there. Also, shoreside markers would have to be dated. I think I am going to go buy this book anyway as it is bound to include more information then what was printed in this article.
      • boflaade, on 01/02/2008, -0/+1I'll wait to find it in the library. Simple because it may be poorly written.
    • blackjack75, on 01/01/2008, -5/+9It's not real discovery if you don't take the time to try to externinate the previous occupiers of the land. In that sense, Europeans were the greatest discoverers.
    • onlyclave, on 01/01/2008, -7/+3Maybe you should Google "Kennewick Man" and see why the brown people do not want him studied. Kind of throws a monkeywrench into their arguments.
    • Temoshi, on 01/01/2008, -1/+7I sort of agree. However, from a historical perspective, the first contact with the Americas was a huge deal (whenever it was). Europe, Africa, and Asia composed the known world (or "Old World"). I don't define "known" as having been visited by Europeans; rather, we're talking about huge expanses of land where everyone was more or less aware that the others existed. The peoples of the Americas had no significant contact with anyone from the Old World prior to Columbus (or the Vikings, etc.), and thus there was no cultural exchange, no trade, etc. So, whoever first made contact with them and brought them into the mainstream of human interaction deserves at least a little recognition.
  • wonderchemist, on 01/01/2008, -4/+1541969: The year Neil Armstrong discovered the Moon.

    • ezco506th, on 01/01/2008, -6/+23It's lucky there weren't any natives on there, or else he'd have had to kill them all and then lay claim to it's cheeziness.
      • positron, on 01/01/2008, -2/+9Silence nerd! On the moon nerds get their pants pulled down and they are spanked with moon rocks! Armstrong would have suffered at the hands of the mighty Mooninites. They do whatever they want, when they want, at all times. No one can defeat their quad laser. Jumping is useless! Don't question it!
        • MarkOfTheDead, on 01/02/2008, -0/+1AND DROP THOSE SWEATPANTS RIGHT NOW!!
    • warrenterr, on 01/01/2008, -3/+19nope, vikings got there first too.
      • Fungo, on 01/01/2008, -0/+5Actually, the Vikings discovered Mars.
        • michelspc, on 01/01/2008, -1/+4From what I heard, the Vikings discovered techno music. I could be wrong though.
        • pleasureismine, on 01/01/2008, -1/+2What a terrible attempt to be funny.
    • residualflash, on 01/01/2008, -4/+3you guys are all wrong, my people, the indians (people from india not native americans), already set up a convenience store in the moon before anyone got there
    • lycanter, on 01/01/2008, -1/+1It only counts if you apply for a patent.
  • UncleCrapper, on 01/01/2008, -5/+701422: Disgusted by all the gang violence, they promptly returned home and did their best to forget the place.
  • ImagineFreedom, on 03/12/2008, -11/+18Even though this is old news - the book was published in 2002 - it's still awesome yet widely unknown.
    • attackingpencil, on 01/01/2008, -7/+9By awesome do you mean that the scholarship within is awesomely bad? or it is awesome just how misinformed Mezies is? Because both of those statements would be true
    • hmunkey, on 01/01/2008, -1/+9It's inaccurate though.
      • kazamx, on 01/01/2008, -2/+4On what grounds?
      • Synova, on 01/02/2008, -0/+1The Chinese kept very good records of the voyages of the treasure ships and they all sailed west via the Indian ocean.
    • dotorg, on 01/01/2008, -1/+3Its old old news that isn't widely known because its been shown repeatedly to be incorrect. Its an interesting book to read with a big grain of salt, but its bad science to the point of being basically fiction -- and frankly Kim Stanley Robinson's The Years of Rice and Salt is a better fiction in that subject area.
  • hydroplane, on 01/01/2008, -18/+7Those sandal-wearing goldfish tenders? Ha ha! Bosh! Flimflaw!
    • NationalistROC, on 01/01/2008, -1/+1You're thinking of the Japanese... Get your racism right!
    • BarnabyJones, on 01/01/2008, -0/+1Ba-ba-ba-Booooosh!
  • teejaay, on 01/01/2008, -6/+16Note this is on the cnn.com entertainment page.
  • kikuchiyo11, on 01/01/2008, -2/+18This book came out years ago. At least the submitter didn't write "BREAKING!"
  • ipodman, on 01/01/2008, -22/+6That's *****, my family was here first, back in 1200BC, and I'm claiming all of it. You should ALL feel GUILTY for stealing MY land. If you want to avoid my class action lawsuit, send me $10.
    • Aard88, on 01/01/2008, -1/+10How about I just drop $20 at the Tunica Casino?
    • ezco506th, on 01/01/2008, -1/+0I'm going to go there, win $50 and then keep it for myself.
      • popfrogs, on 01/01/2008, -0/+1Good luck with that. Indian casinos typically have no gaming commission oversight and no code review on any of their electronic games. Therefore the possibility that backdoors exist in their games is a given.
    • ryan83189, on 01/02/2008, -0/+0Prove it.
  • i3rilliant, on 01/01/2008, -6/+6This article is nearly 5 years old...
  • neio, on 01/01/2008, -10/+8Awesome story, if you take a look at some of the people in Peru you can see the Chinese origin in them.
    • blackjack75, on 01/01/2008, -0/+7Yes, but that's unrelated with the 1400's. You can see asian characteristics in all native americans since they all basically came from asia originally.
    • popfrogs, on 01/01/2008, -0/+6That supports the land bridge theory, not a debunked Chinese sailing expedition.
      • boflaade, on 01/02/2008, -1/+1How so? The bridge would have been connecting what is now, Alaska and Siberia.
    • ZenMojo, on 01/01/2008, -3/+1Yet no one mentions the Phoenicians....
    • lbmouse, on 01/02/2008, -0/+2That explains the horrible drivers in Lima.
  • mrgeekguy, on 01/01/2008, -12/+991421: Chinese discover America. 1422: Native American parents start complaining about lead in their children toys.
  • rowlodge, on 01/01/2008, -12/+3the whole thing is dumb, like "adam and eve" first discovered the earth.
  • Timmetie, on 01/01/2008, -8/+8Who discovered what when is a moot point if one doesn't do anything with it. The dutch found Australia and mapped some of its coast but were too lazy to colonize, so the English were next. That's how it's gone with every overseas discovery.
    • freudianslipper, on 01/01/2008, -3/+10Yeah, damn lazy Indians just living off the land! You have to build ***** and kill people. Now that's doing something. That's discovering!
      • sinbot, on 01/02/2008, -2/+2By that you mean hunting most all the big game to extinction, building gigantic temples with slave labor to sacrifice slaves or to cannibalize slaves. Competing against neighboring people by killing them...


        Oh right.... the noble indian....
    • AlvesLopes, on 01/01/2008, -1/+0Lol, Portuguese discovered Australia centuries before.
    • ezco506th, on 01/01/2008, -2/+9The English colonized it? If you mean by sending all their prisoners there, then yeah, I guess they colonized it.
    • bosssmiley, on 01/01/2008, -0/+2The Dutch, lazy? The guys who built a third of their country on reclaimed land lazy?!?! The only reason the Dutch didn't do a lot with New Amsterdam (as it was then) is because the VOC made lots more money in East Asia. North America in the 17th c. was a sideshow area where you went to get your furs and timber if you weren't talking to the Russians that month.

      As for the Chinese discovering America. I can see it. They knew about the great southern land of giant hopping mice (aka Australia) during the Sung dynasty (800-1200AD). If the Polynesians could cross the Pacific on log canoes there's no reason the largest, richest and most complex society on Earth couldn't do the same. You can see why they'd stop visiting the Pacific coast though. Same reason we don't have a moonbase yet: what's there that they couldn't find cheaper and easier nearer to home?

      ps: Vikings did it first. ;-)
  • openingsound, on 01/01/2008, -4/+25pics or it never happened
  • RedHeadedFreak, on 01/01/2008, -2/+10Great, all we need is a Chinese mandate for reclaiming the Americas once they get their gigantic billion man war machine in gear.
  • iluvhatemail, on 01/01/2008, -5/+11i'm pretty sure they proved the 1418 map to be a fake. Asians did beat Columbus but it was from walking across the Bering land bridge 10,000 years ago. Article is inaccurate.
    • iticu, on 01/01/2008, -7/+1No, actually it was the French that did that. So we the Europeans did beat China. =)
  • omniatlas, on 01/01/2008, -5/+7Jan 13, 2003 article
    • cquilliam, on 01/01/2008, -1/+2point? old news is still news if no one has heard about it.
  • Evildudetx, on 01/01/2008, -5/+11How about some concrete evidence to support this theory? A single map isn't nearly enough. If some dude in California has a boat in his backyard, then why hasn't it been excavated and carbon dated? More than likely its all BS.
    • digggggggggg, on 01/01/2008, -4/+5I there's more evidence than that in the book, such as non-native plant and animal species present nowadays in areas where the expedition made landfall, cross referencing accounts from European explorers and such.

      The article is kinda watered down.
    • sirlancelot88, on 01/02/2008, -0/+2And what gives you the authority to claim BS?
  • deanjarvis, on 01/01/2008, -7/+8Doesn't matter, they didn't do anything with it. Talk about having no vision.
    • blackjack75, on 01/01/2008, -0/+1How do you know? Maybe they just hadn't finished killing all the natives when the europeans showed up and they just said: ***** it, we do half the work and then they come and claim the land?
    • digggggggggg, on 01/01/2008, -1/+1I see what you did there.
    • perfectsilence, on 01/01/2008, -0/+1"didn't do anything" you mean kill the natives and take it over? if we ever discover aliens on another planet should we kill them all and take over their planet, otherwise we "didn't do anything with it"?
    • ZenMojo, on 01/01/2008, -0/+3The Chinese visited Sub-Saharan Africa and traded with the natives. But none of them brought back any slaves....
  • jcm267, on 01/01/2008, -5/+10This is a duplicate of an inaccurate submission from yesterday. I undugg and buried that one as inaccurate.
    http://www.1421exposed.com/
    • mrhuhk, on 01/01/2008, -1/+2Thank you. I really wish people would realize that historical methods require more than just "I got a map and some stories!!"
  • elfprince13, on 01/01/2008, -1/+3nearly a century? seems closer to half of one to me. not that it matters, but I dislike sensationalist hyperbole
  • zyklon, on 01/01/2008, -3/+6Still on the Vikings' side.
  • musntSurfatWork, on 01/01/2008, -9/+2I think the species that were formed to become 'people' when Pangea was still intact were thinly spread into the borders that makeup present day North America, but were too drunk for centuries to have ever bothered to write anything about it, perhaps 'few' century old maps were preserved and hailed as Columbus' discovery, because well how the hell would I know anything, I'm just a piece of ***** human as anyone else on earth. Happy new year everybody!
  • Aloen, on 01/01/2008, -4/+27One of the History Professors at my University actually uses this book as an example of "bad" history in one of his courses and spends a month dissecting it and treating it like it is, a great fairy-tale and nothing more. I've seen this book in my Chinese history courses and they've all rejected it. It's bad history, done by a man who had no historical background and absolutely no understanding of what it would take for these events to occur. He even claimed that the Chinese boats sailed into London! You'd think an Armada of like 200 boats from China would get mentioned at some point in ENGLISH sources, but nope, no mention there. His reply? "The evidence will be found." No, no it won't.
    • kodax, on 01/01/2008, -7/+6History is more suspect than modern day politics in terms of accuracy. Its almost impossible to get to the bottom of anything historical. You cant take for granted anything is true. The only thing we can know about history is that we are ignorant,
    • ezco506th, on 01/01/2008, -8/+6"A great fairy tale."
      Like Jesus.
    • mirunit, on 01/01/2008, -6/+5I think some of you should research his points before moving to disprove.
      • boflaade, on 01/02/2008, -1/+1It seems to "disprove" is just getting on a bandwagon, with no intention of reading the concept. I guess it's the brainwashing from of all the times mother said no, without hearing the explanation.
  • diggboss, on 01/01/2008, -6/+1Indians (people from India) where there much before looking for some jobs to outsource.
    • tracker198x, on 01/01/2008, -0/+7that didnt make any sense what-so-ever
  • dicklogan, on 01/01/2008, -0/+1"new" book? I read it in 2004 and it was so boring that I stopped halfway
  • sensoukami, on 01/01/2008, -15/+6If it's true, thank ***** they left and did nothing with it. The Chinese ***** up their own country royally enough. Think the Natives got it bad under white Europeans??? Imagine what would happen if the Chinese get a hold of them...
    • InformedCrab, on 01/01/2008, -0/+0Things were fine before they got complacent. Don't let the same thing happen to us.
  • AlvesLopes, on 01/01/2008, -6/+1Ok, you are ALL wrong. Columbus was a Portuguese SPY sent to Spain to trick them into finding an atlantic pass to india. As the portuguese king knew there was america in the way, he knew they would never reach india by that side.
    Proofs? There is a columbus family that lived in a Portuguese village called... CUBA, Alentejo.
    He married a Portuguese girl, daughter of a famous portuguese captain.
    He knew all portuguese seafaring techniches.
    When he returned from the new world, he first went to Lisbon to talk to the Portuguese king, only after that he went to spain.

    America was discovered somerwhere around 1420's, by Portuguese vessels.
  • DrPaul2008, on 01/01/2008, -2/+9Yes, they discovered North America, and all the natives living there. Kinda like when Pocahontas discovered Europe in 1616.

    I didn't discover Europe until 1999.
  • BigGrayBeast, on 01/01/2008, -0/+1If you looked at those who arrived to America by sea, some of the earliest arrivals may have been by kayak across the Bering Sea before any land bridges. The Vikings are acknowledged to have arrived by sea prior to Columbus, and this year, proof presented itself that Polynesians arrived in Chile, although after the Vikings. http://www.archaeology.org/0801/topten/chicken.htm ...

    The article on 1421 is from 2003. What is it doing being dugg now? 1421 does seem to be more hopeful than factual.
  • Walli, on 01/01/2008, -4/+22010, the year China buys out America
  • Bitey42, on 01/01/2008, -5/+3*BREAKING* New evidence recently found and analyzed to support the claims. Guess it was only a matter of time...
    This should silence the pics or it never happened naysayers.

    http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2360/2155104744_c9e ...
    http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2043/2154310051_715 ...
  • cloney, on 01/01/2008, -1/+0Who hasn't read/ know this yet? I mean the story is from January 2003. Welcome to 2008?
  • hmunkey, on 01/01/2008, -3/+10This never happened. The junks fleet was navigated by Zheng He, who was an imperial eunuch and was limited to the Indian Ocean area. After time, the Chinese court decided not to continue these massive voyages (often 80 or more massive Junks) because of the cost. Look it up.
  • terracottapai, on 01/01/2008, -2/+12My Medieval History professor (an expert on Columbus, he was on a recent documentary on the History Channel about him) went off on this book for about five minutes; said it was complete ***** and full of bad research.
    Don't recall any specific details, but take his opinion for what it's worth.
    • sirlancelot88, on 01/02/2008, -1/+1So what credibility does a medievalist and Columbus expert have on evaluating chinese exploration claims? Given his ranting, I'd be more inclined to believe that he is trying to blindly defend the status quo and his area of interest (Columbus).
      • terracottapai, on 01/02/2008, -1/+1He has a Ph.D., I think he's qualified to evaluate the material.
  • ezco506th, on 01/01/2008, -5/+3Everything was discovered in the year 42.0
  • MarrowMan, on 01/01/2008, -3/+5No one "discovered" America. ***** ignorant *****. How can you discover something already settled by someone? Oh I just discovered My neighbors new Porsche, and his hot blond wife inside! It's mine now!!!
    • michaelb1, on 01/01/2008, -0/+3Congrats on your new things.
      In keeping with whitey tradition you should destroy the Porsche and rape the wife.
  • warMen, on 01/01/2008, -0/+14Zheng He (a muslim) was the guy that led that fleet of junks. China did this so they could make some diplomatic relations with other muslim countries in the Indian Ocean region. It has been proven of that Zheng He (China) never discovered America before the Europeans. Also, the map was proven to be a fabrication

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zheng_he#Zheng_He_map
  • olbap, on 01/01/2008, -9/+7History is written by those who subjugate us. Be it by direct military conquest or simply being brought up within a certain culture. I do not believe Columbus discovered America. I am sure these lands were probably known for quite some time and the story of Columbus was simply created as a way for the public to learn about these new lands.

    How it the heck did the Aztecs come up with a myth of the return of their white skinned, bearded god? Why did they believe the myth that they would return on "houses that glided on water'"?

    What about the Olmecs (Mexico/Central America) and those natives living in, I think, Tierra del Fuego (Patagonia) who are thought to be of African descent? These groups were some of the oldest known in those parts of the New World. What about the Kennewick Man? Vikings? Polynesians using boats across the Pacific?

    Yeah, as far as I'm concerned, people have known about the "New World" way before it was ever "discovered" by Columbus. So, ***** European history and its ***** mockup of human existence.
    • rlh1, on 01/01/2008, -0/+3I was always under the impression that the Europeans needed to find another route to the Orient because the Muslims had conquered Constantinople and blocked the trade routes. So Columbus sailed out to reach India and bumped into the Americas.
      If they knew that the Americas were here......why would they spend the last 500 years writing in history books that they didn't know. Do you have any proof ?
      • Rhenthalin, on 01/01/2008, -0/+1On an almost unrelated note Columbus never believed he discovered anything new.
    • eryximachus, on 01/01/2008, -4/+5On a planet of over 6 billion people, of which 700 million are European, I think your anger and rage against us is misplaced. The world is not a peaceful place, and it never has been. What we do know is that where European culture has prevailed, the average citizen knows a level of peace and prosperity as well as freedom unknown in the rest of the world. There is a reason our lands are being invaded en mass by hordes of refugees from every corner of the earth - they crave the prosperity that is the hallmark of European Civilization.

      The simple fact you harbor these views indicates you are a hypocrite. You clearly are not living in one of the various oppressive countries where Europeans are not the majority. Your hostility is allowed only because of the generosity of the European spirit that permeates your host culture. Do you really think you could sit down in China and talk about how their culture demeans the human individual, or that Chinese history has been a relentless campaign of subjugation of dozens of cultures and nations? No, you would be immediately arrested.

      Show a little respect. You sound like a spoiled child raised by typical liberal politicians who knows nothing of the world and does not live in a city filled with immigrants immensely grateful to be in country you despise.
      • Abynormal, on 01/01/2008, -4/+3Damn your starting to sound like an American, unable to see through your own *****. Remember it was self righteous Europeans who colonized, oppressed, and enslaved native cultures around the globe, sometimes to the point of genocide. So go ***** yourself and the horse you rode in on.
        • Gwyddyon, on 01/01/2008, -1/+3Yes, they did all that. Generations ago. And the Maya used to cut out hearts with stone knives. Cultures change.
        • eryximachus, on 01/02/2008, -1/+1Back up jack. I live in Brooklyn and personally know way more people from those places than you do. I've never met a single immigrant from anywhere in the world who holds those views. You probably ARE an American, or at the very least you were educated in some liberal university. Your views are not shared by the people you purportedly represent.
          • solistus, on 01/09/2008, -0/+1Most of the people who end up in well-to-do areas of Brooklyn (you've said elsewhere that you make a quarter million a year) probably don't represent the views of all in their ethnic backgrounds. If you go to Latin America, the Middle East, etc., these views are very common. Oh, and those who got it the worst were KILLED, so it's kinda hard to ask them. Ever wonder why there are so few Native Americans left?
      • oneshot2g, on 01/02/2008, -1/+2"What we do know is that where European culture has prevailed, the average citizen knows a level of peace and prosperity as well as freedom unknown in the rest of the world."

        Native American Genocide, Naploenic Wars, West African Slave Trade, WW1, WW2, Colonisation, most recent: the Balkans, peace and prosperity yup. Please read about other countries cultures and appreciate that no culture is superior to another.
  • SSUK, on 01/01/2008, -1/+1So what year would this have been in Chinese years?
  • dscythe72, on 01/01/2008, -0/+3"Monday, January 13, 2003 Posted: 1:22 PM EST (1822 GMT)"

    Seriously? Dugg in 5 years or less....
  • blackjack75, on 01/01/2008, -2/+13This idea that China might be sending junk to America is absolutely unbelievable. That is never going to happen.
    • InformedCrab, on 01/01/2008, -4/+2I bet you buy all-American don't you.
    • darthom, on 01/03/2008, -0/+1China according to Menzies began sending their Junk(s) [pun] around the world before Columbus sailed the ocean blue. However, historians and businessmen alike attribute the distribution to a much later period - oooh, let's say late 20th Century.
  • snappleman, on 01/01/2008, -6/+6Columbus was an ***** anyway
  • jamdogg, on 01/01/2008, -6/+2The yanks don't like that one. Suck on that seppos!
  • jrtalon, on 01/01/2008, -8/+4Columbus is the only one that actually had an effect so IMO his 'discovery' counts. If a tree falls and no one hears it, does it make a sound? Well, if someone 'discovers' someplace and doesn't tell any one.... If Columbus didn't sail here who knows what the world would look like today.

    IMO if the USA didn't exist the freedoms and democracy many countries now enjoy wouldn't exist or at least would take a much longer time to develop. People around the globe were seeing what we were doing and wanted the same for themselves their governments had no choice but to reciprocate or face revolution or mass emigration. At least that was true until idiot presidents started illegal wars and signed laws taking away constitutional rights and liberties.

    The USA needs to become an example to the world once again, VOTE Ron Paul or Kucinich.
    • eryximachus, on 01/01/2008, -2/+1Kucinich? I guess you are unaware how he practically destroyed Cleveland during is oppressive reign.

      Democratic politicians who play the political machine and destroy cities have no place bringing their corruption to the office of the chief executive.
  • EnigMachineGun, on 01/01/2008, -0/+2I have this book. I'm curious as to why it ended up on Digg now, since it's been in publication for years now.
  • setledownslappy, on 01/01/2008, -2/+2Buried for being wrong and OLD news.
  • JoshChan, on 01/01/2008, -1/+2I am wondering about 3 questions:

    1) they have Europe on the map but no Europeans had ever seen any Chinese Fleet
    2) Why were they able to sketch the mountains thousands of miles inside the continents when they were just supposed to sail along the coast line
    3) No trace of them was ever found except in the documented areas of their journey.
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