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Youtube of Internet Flash Games?

escapistmagazine.com — The Escapist discusses Kongregate, a new flash game service that features "Web 2.0" qualities and intends on building a strong community. Interview with founder Jim Greer discusses the site's success thus far.

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  • marcelle, on 10/12/2007, -6/+5Fascinating article for anyone who is interested both in the business and the entertainment/user experience side of online game delivery. Apparently, sound ethics and good business are not mutually exclusive in the gaming industry! Good to know :-)
    • pikpikcarrotmon, on 10/12/2007, -10/+22This site looks like it's Newgrounds with a chat panel. I really don't think that's enough to make this place stand on its own, especially with the inevitable amount of duplicate content it will doubtlessly share with Newgrounds at some point.
    • covert215, on 10/12/2007, -10/+3@pikpikcarrotmon
      Beat you to it by almost an hour....
    • Monolith2, on 10/12/2007, -6/+3New? Kongregate is "new"??? Where did you find this article, 2001?!
    • pikpikcarrotmon, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3@ Covert-- You didn't mention the visible difference between them and I considered it notable. Besides, I made different points and posted them--is that a crime?
    • str3ama, on 10/12/2007, -8/+2They better not go Ebaumsworld on us, and start stealing games and posting it on their site.
      And I don't want to see them on Digg, especially if they expect to have every single one of their games posted on the frontpage, I'd rather the developer get credit for it by having their site frontpaged then some startup taking all the credit.

      I'm most concerned about the swiping of games - especially since they say it's "user submitted", which means they can crib games and allege that others submitted it. Take a look at that Line Rider - the guy created something great, and thnx to Digg a developer gets to keep the profits from it, rather then split with some middleman who merely puts up some ads and takes a 50% cut!
    • GregLoire, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3str3ama, how could a site with open forums and live chat really get away with something like that? It seems like creating a site in which you're vulnerable to user outrage would go hand-in-hand with making sure no one gets pissed off.
    • str3ama, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2lol ebaumsworld (well known for content stealing) has both a forum and chat system, from trying out Kongregate it seems like it's actively getting permission (which the article didn't really mention in detail). I think it's a good idea, but I don't know if people really want to get that involved in playing games ..newgrounds is a little different because its between flash creators whereas this is a newcomer in to the flash market and it might be more difficult to get as many people readily interested in playing and being part of a community in the way the owner wants it to be.
    • vertinox, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Down with ebaums! Long live YTMND.com!

      But seriously... Newgrounds is basically the same thing as what the submitter is suggesting, but I get more laughts our of YTMND.
    • robphillips, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0YTMND does Flash games?
  • cam503, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5There's a reason the developer of the site shies away from the YouTube comparison.

    It's a horrible comparison. The YouTube of internet flash games? Okay... but the main thing they share in common is the social networking aspect. That's about it.
    • goldy74, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5He even admits it - it's a 'Trojan Horse'. The benefits of a site like this are numerous, but start with independent game developers getting their games in front of mass audiences. It was only a matter of time before a site like this was created.
    • covert215, on 10/12/2007, -6/+30A site like this already exists, and it HAS existed for a decade. Its call Newgrounds.com.
    • Ashkc88, on 10/12/2007, -10/+1@covert215
      No, Its called, http://www.addictinggames.com/
    • covert215, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11@ashkc88
      Not quite. AddictingGames takes games from Newgrounds, FlashPlayer, ShockWave, and other user-submitted sites. AddictingGames then credits the original creators with the games. Users do not submit their games. Newgrounds (in 1991) pioneered it all, with an automated submission portal. FlashPlayer is very similar to Newgrounds. The only difference being that user's vote on the content on Newgrounds and site administrators vote on FlashPlayer.
    • grexy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5@covert215 -- NG is definitely the pioneer here, but if you read the article you can see that Kongregate is doing some things Newgrounds isn't, like sharing ad revenue, and the challenges on games. So not the first site, but still a cool one. And without a 1001 popup ads like there are on most Flash sites.
    • ilyag, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7"Newgrounds (in 1991) pioneered it all"

      Amazing how they did that, seeing as the World Wide Web didn't even exist until 1993, and this particular website didn't come unto existence until several years later.
    • covert215, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9Newgrounds as a magazine/community was created in 1991. Its been online since 1995.

      http://www.newgrounds.com/lit/history.html
  • DaBrainiac, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5I just hope that before long all the Top 10 Games aren't like 'japnese babe gets a massage!!!1 HOT'
    Dang you YouTube...
  • jimgreer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+20Hey cool, we got Dugg! By the way, the article mentions our challenges - kind of like achievements on Xbox Live. Except they are time limited, and there isn't one running today. But at midnight pacific time our next one starts, so come check it out then.

    Also, for those who point out that Newgrounds did this first, I absolutely agree. We're not trying to deny that at all, and a lot of us hang out on NG as well. We're trying to do something different. For what it's worth I met Tom Fulp (NG founder) at the Game Developer's Conference a few weeks ago and he was very friendly and complimentary. Also, I played Castle Crashers for like half an hour, which was awesome.
  • babylonian, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4I've been browsing Kongregate for maybe a month now and love it so far. Very slick interface. It has some nice features (chat, Achievements, etc) but unlike Newgrounds, it's not cluttered with ads and unnecessary information, you don't have to open the games in a new window, and there's nothing stopping you from saving games you like to your hard drive.

    That and the fact that game makers make a share of the ad revenue. This could easily knock Newgrounds out of its throne.
  • JacNet, on 10/12/2007, -5/+2Any idiot can make a video, not everyone can make a flash game. This won't do very well.

    The market for this is also taken up by Newgrounds, although i do hate the idiots on that site.
  • hippo1989, on 10/12/2007, -8/+1i love the penis

    Adrian L T
  • hachi71, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1I think that both are splendid.
  • vx69, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5Newgrounds already has it :|
  • abaird, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Cool idea, I'd never heard of it before but how are they differentiating themselves from NG?

    I kinda thought NG already had the "hip" flash developer community. It's disappointing as a Java developer that there isn't support for other formats besides flash. There's a huge Java game development community that is entirely untapped from this approach.
  • Nedlog23, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"To try and guess which category Jim Greer will fit into, one must dig deeper."
    Anyone else see the pun in that sentence?
    A little extra publicity compliments of DIGG.
  • aleksandar, on 10/12/2007, -6/+1I would also recommend http://www.greatgamesexperiment.com/
    • jon02129, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Ooo, sex experiment...*click*

      Wait..
  • desistyle, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1I know Kongregate is all web 2.0 and looks nice, but come on, newgrounds has been doing this for years. So they can't claim that they are the youtube of games, when other sites have been doing this. I know the achievements thing sounds cool, but I dont think it's anything to go nuts over, especially with the casual games audience.
  • owensbofe, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3probably won't fair too well because the creation of a flash game (let alone a good one) is much more difficult than a video of someone getting hit in the nuts.
    • jimgreer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4@owensbofe - What's really hard is making a good flash game while someone hits you in the nuts.

      I agree that games are much harder to make - luckily a good game is something you can play for hours. Most videos you're going to watch once or maybe twice. So we don't have to have as many uploaders to have a good site.
    • sannm, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3exactly I recently got into flash game creation and making a good game that is ready to play may take 20-50hrs of work as opposed to 20min if you count in editing time for a youtube vid. Either way I still like the site and hope it takes off.
  • spoonyman, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1"Youtube of Internet Flash Games?"

    No. Like everyone else said, this is just a cleaner version of Newgrounds. I don't see this being successful in an already saturated market. Sorry guys but come up with an original idea before making such a bold statement.
  • Salius, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Wait a sec, if Newgrounds came before Youtube, shouldn't they refer to Youtube as "Newgrounds of Internet Videos"?
  • arcaneCoder, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Newgrounds is not the same. They are similar, but Kongregate is filling certain spaces where they feel Newgrounds and other portals lack, and users seem to find use for each site. As jimgreer mentioned, many Kongregate users are NG users as well.

    @str3ama: Piracy is strictly not tolerated on Kongregate. You can only upload your own content, and those who upload pirated content get suspended or banned and the games are removed. The point of the site is to give more back to developers, not to create a carbon copy business model of NG or (god forbid) Ebaums.
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