What is Digg?309 Comments
- vortz83, on 06/09/2009, -30/+185Valve can do whatever they want with their game, and I'm sure 95% of the people in the boycott group are going to get it anyway.
- Nn010385, on 06/09/2009, -6/+134I'm probably going to get dugg down all the way to hell and back for writing this, but it seems to me that a lot of the people posting here don't really have a good idea why people are so upset. Left 4 Dead was released half a year ago and still has numerous bugs that have yet to be resolved, the SDK has been delayed time and time again, and it was only recently that versus mode was implemented for the remaining two campaigns. The game was incomplete on release and I don't see how many people can argue with that statement. Normally this wouldn't bother a whole lot of people, because Valve has built a reputation of being slow but also thorough in its support for titles.
However, the announcement of a sequel to be released only a year after the current title strongly suggests that a lot of Valve's resources were directed to the sequel when they could have been allocated toward the original game. There are numerous articles where Valve employees discuss the post-launch plans of Left 4 Dead, such as DLC that would introduce new characters or weapons. An example of one such article is found here: http://www.videogamer.com/xbox360/left_4_dead/news ...
Look at Half-Life 1 and then look at Half-Life 2. HL2 is a true sequel to the original game, running on a new engine, with new gameplay features and innovations and more. Now look at Left 4 Dead 1 and the videos we have for Left 4 Dead 2. It's the same game, only reskinned in some areas, with different weapons that could easily be added to the original. The AI Director improvements probably could not be added to the original game via DLC form, but I hardly think that warrants a sequel. Another thing you have to consider is how Left 4 Dead 2 will invariably split the community. Diehard L4D1 advocates will refuse to make the jump, while new players will buy L4D2 due to the improvements and enhancements. Valve says they will continue to support L4D1 and provide new content, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out which game will receive priority and preferential treatment.
I have been a diehard Valve supporter for as long as I can remember, but even I am able to see this for what it is. Valve is milking its new franchise for financial reasons at the expense of its community. I still support Valve, because we all know they make quality games, but if they continue to pull stunts like this, pretty soon we really will see no distinction between them and EA. - Renian, on 06/09/2009, -5/+88If Valve charges like $25 instead of $50 for it I doubt there would be so much QQing.
- EvanGH, on 06/09/2009, -1/+65So...you pulled two quotes from someone else's interviews, and called it your own "article"? Go away.
- newman328, on 06/09/2009, -11/+73Left 4 Dead is loads of fun, but it IS starting to wear thin. I would love to get something new, so I'm not complaining.
- cerilia, on 06/09/2009, -5/+65Of course Valve can do whatever they want to with their game, but that doesn't mean that their fans can't voice valid concerns. I for one purchased Left 4 Dead under the impression that they would add more content down the line as they have with Team Fortress 2, but this does not seem to be the case just yet. And hearing that the sequel is already planned for release has me worried as far as their commitment to the original Left 4 Dead.
- PuffTMDJ, on 06/09/2009, -3/+56"Perhaps a discounted expansion would’ve been the better way to go but we’ll stay tuned for further updates on the outcome of L4D2."
I agree with this statement. - Dark2Light, on 06/09/2009, -12/+59Don't pass judgment before you play it, if the game is just a rehash of L4D then complain...
- NinjaBanana, on 06/09/2009, -1/+44Don't know why you're being dugg down. The reality is that most of the Steam sales were from the $25 weekend deals.
- zerodepth, on 06/09/2009, -3/+46I just want what was promised from the beginning.
- pwner, on 06/09/2009, -3/+45Guys, I love Valve, I love buying games on Steam.
That being said, if a developer promises additional content to influence our decision in buying that game, then they should keep their promise. Since L4D only got 1 boring batch of DLC, a lot of gamers were feeling shafted. I know I waited months for the L4D SDK to be released because I wanted to play on custom maps. This isn't just mere QQ, a lot of us feel lied to.
I'll probably end up buying L4D2, but on a $10 dollar weekend. - dalittle, on 06/09/2009, -9/+47Valve has not been behaving like EA (the standard of evil). I am willing to give Valve the benefit of the doubt on this one and expect this will be another great game from them.
- wolfing, on 06/09/2009, -19/+53it's called "milking the cow", nothing new
- inactive, on 06/09/2009, -5/+38which shows that games are overpriced.
- spookyttws, on 06/09/2009, -26/+55Besides JUST being on the front page...
Valve is putting out a full sequel (with more content than the original) in a short period of time! Stop demanding ***** for free! They're one of the best game companies around, let them put out quality content quickly and be happy about it! - YouandWhoseArmy, on 06/09/2009, -6/+33The real problem is not that they want to release a fully featured, probably really fun sequel. The problem is that they ADMITTED left 4 dead never felt like a complete game. Why charge the full price for a game you know is incomplete?! Left4Dead2 needs to be discounted for the chumps like myself that thought valves previous behavior was a good indicator that left4dead would one day be worth 50 dollars. I convinced friends to get it on this premise. Discount left4dead2 for people that already purchased the half assed game. Oh and what happened to games selling more when they cost less Mr. Newell? http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/57308
- willrcks8, on 06/09/2009, -5/+32I love how Valve is quick to develop LFD 2, but Half life 2's episode 3 has been under development for years, because they "want to create a quality product." So how is LFD 2 NOT a quick cash scheme?
HL2:3 FTW! - StreetPreacher, on 06/09/2009, -2/+28I think a lot of people misunderstand the sense of anger. I think that the more reasonable gamers don't necessarily think that it'll suck, or that they want all that content for free. It's just that Valve has moved on to a full sequel without delivering the free DLC THAT THEY PROMISED for the first one.
There are multiple interviews w/ the devs (including Gabe Newell) where they promised TF2-style updates with new campaigns, new characters/monsters, new weapons, etc. And all we got was one new map with with a new gametype (which is really rehashed finale gameplay). So to many of us, it appears that they've already moved on to work on paid content without delivering the free DLC that they promised.
Me? I'm not pissed per se, just disappointed. I bought it at full price b/c the demo was fun, and enjoyed it for a couple of months before it got repetitive. Now that I know that the L4D team doesn't really do good DLC, I'll probably wait until 2 hits the $25 mark until I buy. But buy it I will.
Caveat emptor. - Tyler2tall147, on 06/09/2009, -10/+36I'm sure they will, but I bet most of them won't pay full price for it.
- Super6, on 06/09/2009, -0/+26I bought L4D with the understanding it would be updated like TF2, a year in all we have to show for it is a new map (not even a new campaign) and a new game mode (survival, not even a big deal). I'm on the boycott, I'll buy it for $20, but I'm not paying full price for what is really an expansion pack.
- bdubatdi, on 06/09/2009, -1/+25thats the plan
- Orsenfelt, on 06/09/2009, -0/+22This sums it up perfectly.
I am in the boycott group, not because I won't buy L4D2 but because I want to make it known to Valve I don't appreciate having my trust in a company tread on and used as a cash cow. I trust Valve to make a good game and deliver content. It's that trust that made me accept an unfinished Left 4 Dead 1, pay the price and sit out for new content.
Left 4 Dead 2 being released or it's content or new features isn't why people are annoyed. It's that Left 4 Dead was sold to a community who trusted their word that it would be improved. Left 4 Dead 2 is just clear evidence that they were lying. You might think this is people 'whining' because they don't get free stuff. And you might be right, however Valve always promise AND always deliver that free stuff. You expect to be lied to by EA, not Valve. - NinjaBanana, on 06/09/2009, -2/+23Well you see Left 4 Dead 2 has been in development for years, in fact, it's half way through its 1 year beta, Left 4 Dead 1.
- realcoolguy9022, on 06/09/2009, -1/+21I think you really hit the nail on the head. I was wondering what the hell they were doing, Mostly because there was so very little being done with the current left4dead. I think we have our answer now. Since they devoted the resources to the next game, which, I am OK with. Just wish they would have been honest and said hey, the updates are going to be few and far between, we're working on a sequel. I would have been able to live with that. Just the whole, it's coming, it's coming! was really really annoying. Seems like a 90/10 split on the resources. Perhaps even the main programmers not even being available to make the updates until certain milestones were reached on the sequel. Boy that would piss me off.
Anyway, I'm still interested in the new sequel, and I hope it's complete game from the gate, and even if it's not, that's ok too. Just want the absolute commitment on this one, that it will receive the full attention from valve, and not the backburner approach that was L4D original. - Chompy, on 06/09/2009, -1/+19This is me. Depending on how big it is, the most I'm willing to pay for L4D2 is about $20.. and I may hold off a bit at that. So far it doesn't look like it's much more than five new campaigns with a few new weapons, ammo types, and boss infected sprinkled in.
I don't blame Valve; I mean hey, it's money. Any other developer/publisher and this would be business as usual. Valve's "problem" is that they've created this expectation that they're going to be giving out tons of free DLC, all the time. You can't give all of that TF2 love without people expecting a similar treatment for your other online games. - inactive, on 06/09/2009, -0/+18That would be the point of a boycott.
- CaughtThinking, on 06/09/2009, -4/+21Whatever. It's EXACTLY like every other gaming franchise that screwed up the community by offering the sequel immediately after. Other franchises include COD, BF2... Disaster.
I'm really surprised at Valve. I put them above this usually, but even though I don't even own L4D (my bros do), I will totally join this group.
Wake up Valve! We expect more from you.
FWIW I wont buy any of technical excuse why either - branch the code base, keep working and merge later. - celust, on 06/09/2009, -3/+20For you idiots that don't understand the boycott:
Planned Expansion for Left for Dead: $25-30 max retail
Last minute switch to full game release: $50-60 retail
Your right...in a hard economy we should reward those execs taking advantage of consumers. - diggduggDOOM, on 06/09/2009, -3/+20I waited until the half-off weekend to purchase L4D, as did 5 of my friends. Assuming L4D2 has a similar amount of content, I'd be willing to spend the same amount ($25).
- FXPooky, on 06/09/2009, -1/+18Dude, Activision is the evil franchise-milking company now. Get with the times. :)
- DeathRay2K, on 06/09/2009, -2/+19But they aren't going to.
- MrBogard, on 06/09/2009, -0/+16They would also probably sell more than twice the volume. That's the thing I'm not really getting here. If you follow Valve's pricing structure, and they're awesome sales on Steam, they are obviously fully aware of the potential value in selling the product cheaper. There's a reason that L4D is so frequently jumping to the number one spot on Steam..
They also should be aware of what their support does for the longevity of a product. The updates for TF2 are keeping it consistently in the top 10. That's amazing. They must have made a killing off of a game that was originally just a pack-in with Orange Box.
How can they not continue down that path? It works for *everyone*. - Pr0v0st, on 06/09/2009, -0/+15Really, Valve should be thrilled that people care enough about their games to get this angry. When call of duty 5 came out I felt it was too soon for a sequel and it wasn't enough of an upgrade from 4, so I just didn't buy it. No signing petitions or posting in message boards. I could name plenty of other cases (some people pointed out guitar hero). At least this way Valve has a chance to appease their fan base before the game comes out. The fact that we expect more from Valve then from the EAs and Activisions of the world should make them very happy. It shows they've exceeded peoples expectations in the past. I have joined the petition to let Valve know that based on what I've seen I won't be paying full price for this game. It's up to them to change my mind.
- FXPooky, on 06/09/2009, -1/+14Then you are an idiot for missing two of the best games around just to pad your ego.
- carter5434, on 06/09/2009, -1/+14The problem is not the money or whether or not there is enough content to justify it as a sequel. The problem is that this is going to kill/split the community from L4D1. That and the fact that most of the content they have said will be in the sequel is precisely what they said was going to be released as free dlc for L4D1 months after it's release.
That and I think they have been holding back content for L4D1 that could have been released already to save for the sequel. The problem is not the money I will have to pay for the sequel but the fact I have to wait till November to play it now, whereas I feel this stuff should already have been released as playable dlc for L4D1. I think Valve is making a mistake by doing it this way. - WraTH017, on 06/09/2009, -1/+14Valve is essentially doing with L4D what it did with Day of Defeat source, which was pretty much dead on arrival in terms of support.
It hyped it to no end, charged us 50 bucks (could have been less, I'm not sure)... and the game had been butchered. We patiently waited for new maps, maybe new weapons (or at least bringing the old ones that it chose to take out for whatever reason)... Nothing. I think it released like 2 maps about a year after it released. Two years later they introduced achievements which pretty much meant nothing. They were too busy working on TF2 you see.
L4D2 isn't a quick cash scheme. L4D was. - MrBogard, on 06/09/2009, -10/+23Right, because they're totally not going to abandon L4D after the sequel ships. Get real.
- ViciousFishes, on 06/09/2009, -4/+17This is why Valve putting games on consoles is a bad thing.
- InfernoX, on 06/09/2009, -1/+14That's what a boycott is...
- oo7evan, on 06/09/2009, -10/+23Gamers, you can never please them.
When the time between sequels to Half Life is too LONG, they complain.
When the time between sequels to L4D is too SHORT, they complain.
Valve has given us Half Life, The Orange Box, TF, Portal, and L4D.
IMHO,They can do whatever the hell they want. - nartvq, on 06/09/2009, -1/+13FTA:
"Our focus is always on what we’re putting in the box, put as much as we can in the box."
Hate to say it, but Valve didn't put in much. L4D only had just 4 extended campaign levels. Playing those levels over and over again gets old pretty quick. The DLC on XBL isn't really all that much either. Just an additional play mode or two, but no new levels. Hopefully, the next game will have have a longer life cycle. Something on the order of GoW2 would be nice. - getatmedigg, on 06/09/2009, -0/+11SDK damnit!
- 1hrSleep, on 06/09/2009, -0/+11I've put in more time playing minesweeper... Is it worth $50?
- Modiga, on 06/09/2009, -2/+12"Fans are clingy complaining ***** who will never ever be greatful for any concession you make. The moment you shut out their shrill tremulous voices the happier you'll be for it."
- bekeleven, on 06/09/2009, -3/+13That certainly would be a pity were it not that Gabe Newell said in multiple interviews how L4D would have multiple free updates, including new characters, maps, game modes, weapons, and enemies.
So far we've got 1 game mode and 1 map. Selling "games as services" works better if you can deliver, so I hear. - anexanhume, on 06/09/2009, -1/+11If Valve built something they weren't fully satisfied with, they should have tweaked it until they were. Valve is no stranger to working on projects for long periods of time and supporting them for even longer periods.
- ipushmycar, on 06/09/2009, -0/+10Updating L4D when L4D2 is out is like updating Madden 08 when Madden 09 is out.
Fans move to newer and better things. L4D2 will look better, sound better, and overall have more content then L4D. Why even go back and play L4D? I'm sure anyone who owns it (like me) has played the begeeges out of it. With two L4D's active, the community is split- 2/3 will play L4D2, 1/3 will play L4D (estimating).
Besides, it's obvious the ONLY reason they say they'll update L4D is because they know this is a dick move. - DeathRay2K, on 06/09/2009, -6/+16It's not about wanting them to release extra content for free, it's about them delivering the free content that they promised for L4D. Valve promised more campaigns, weapons, etc. for L4D, but instead put them into L4D2, with nothing for the original. They have also said that those things won't be coming for L4D anymore.
That's what people are upset about, not just that they assumed Valve would give them free content, Valve said they would and didn't. - Bulletbillx, on 06/09/2009, -0/+9Someone got short-sighted and greedy would be the answer to your question.
- ipushmycar, on 06/09/2009, -1/+10I'm excited for L4D2.
That being said, I'm still pissed off that I dropped $60 on a game which essentially could be considered a beta test of L4D2. The content was lacking- the first play-through only took me 3.5 hours to complete. But I wasn't complaining- everyone thought the DLC would be abundant; even the in-game commentary said that a L4D campaign would only take a fraction of the time/man-power to make compared to levels in other games.
But, no DLC. I don't consider the "survival pack" adequate DLC as it adds no new levels/campaigns (with the exception of the Lighthouse, which is nothing special), and adding an additional (and buggy) "survival mode" to a survival game is a joke.
Unfortunately, I bought this on 360 (no gaming PC for me). I think best case scenario would be some sort of discount system- if you bought L4D, you could get L4D2 half-off. Of course, this will never happen. But it's really the only way to justify the situation and make fans happy. -
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