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- InsaneMachine, on 10/12/2007, -2/+57Anyone else read that and think that the source code was out?
- Nobi-Wan, on 10/12/2007, -2/+40You do realize that they're including Half-Life 2, Episode 1 & 2, Team Fortress 2, and Portal all on the 360 version that's coming soon, right? Seems like the only thing missing is the original Half-Life....then again, they might just throw that on there too.
Having the Source engine for the 360 is extremely good news. I really hope this means we can stop using the Unreal engine with all the shiny, plastic-looking graphics. - sinistergfx, on 10/12/2007, -1/+21The "shiny, plastic-looking graphics" aren't the fault of the engine; it's the fault of misuse of the engine. The look of the material is controlled by the artist. If they don't know how to make a material look correct, it's their fault.
- sinfree, on 10/12/2007, -3/+19Now if they will just release a huge 360 bundle game that included all half-life games to date.
- dclowd9901, on 10/12/2007, -2/+14I did, and I was about to comment with that. But, I became suspectful when there was a severe lack of exclamation points in the headline.
- Sblader5, on 10/12/2007, -2/+14was anybody else thinking source code?
- utkwes, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11"It's pretty amazing that they're able to fit all those games onto one standard DVD disc. It kinda makes you wonder why Sony is saying that it's absolutely necessary to require a hi-def media format for all next-gen titles."
The only reason Sony said this, aside from their obvious ploy at trying to downplay the 360 is the obvious problem with prerendered scenes. None of the games on todays 360 even come close to filling the DVD they're on. That's because they use the game engine to make the cut scenes. 99.9% of cutscenes in 360 games are done with the entities and maps in the game (AKA not prerended). I'm sure in the future it'll be close, but it's all those Japanese Final-Fantasy-Esk prerendered cut scenes that will fill up DVDs faster than an infant fills up its diaper after eating mexican food. - afex, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6@theta:
"Those are being released for all 360's, or just a new 'version' of the 360 that isn't out yet (and thus unplayable on current 360's)?"
i assume you're talking about the change from 90nm to 65nm...if so, just FYI the change in manufacturing makes absolutely no difference in how the console operates (minus cooler and cheaper).
if you weren't talking about that...then...what were you talking about? - Ramble, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8"The "shiny, plastic-looking graphics" aren't the fault of the engine; it's the fault of misuse of the engine. The look of the material is controlled by the artist. If they don't know how to make a material look correct, it's their fault."
I'd say it's more the lighting engine that makes it look plastiky. - sinistergfx, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8Ok, I say this again.
The -material- defines how a surface reacts to light. If you've set the material up to be overly shiny by having an overblown specular map, you will end up with an overly shiny surface. The artist makes these maps and therefore defines what the surface looks like.
Oh yeah, I'm a game artist and I do this for a living. - theojanke, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6@ThetaDot and Nobi-Wan
I believe the line that confused ThetaDot was:
"You do realize that they're including Half-Life 2, Episode 1 & 2, Team Fortress 2, and Portal all on the 360 version that's coming soon, right?"
Nobi-Wan was referring to the 360 "version" of the GAME that is coming out, which includes the above titles, not a new version of the 360 console itself. - utkwes, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Sigh... If you're purely commenting on the release of the HL catalog on the 360, then, I too, hope they will update the graphics.
However, this article is about something bigger... the release of the Source Engine on the 360. Frankly, I can't wait to dump the Unreal Engine. This is gonna rock. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4....mmmmm TF2, yum....but i want CS:S TOO DAMMIT!
and the guy above me is a freaking idiot. - optimo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Does anyone in the know have an idea that this would support Source mods currently being developed for the PC?
Would it be simple to port this to the 360?
such as Golden Eye http://www.goldeneyesource.com - omatsei, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Hey, idiot, wake up. They're releasing the engine for people to use... thus far, I haven't seen Epic very eager to release the Unreal 3 engine for hobbyists to program with, have you? If, on the other hand, you're so brilliant, why don't you release a graphics engine yourself?
As far as your comments about HL2 sucking... yeah, ok. A great story with believable performances by NPC's, full facial features that could actually communicate messages non-verbally, fantastic physics, and pretty damn good graphics, yeah, I can see how you'd be disappointed. I didn't even mention the fact that it guides the player without being either too vague or too hand-holding, not an easy feat. Then again, I think you're just a negative nancy. - cgoff, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4@uberchaoslord
You can thank Havok for the physics, not the Source engine. - chris9902, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3yes it will. Joystiq have some information from Valve about this here
http://www.joystiq.com/2006/10/17/joystiq-interviews-doug-lombardi-about-xbox-360-source/
"Could a modder make something with the end-user Source and then, because of this announcement, would it be technically trivial to port it to the Xbox 360? (I'm overlooking licensing and publishing issues with this question.)
That's the idea. Obviously a MOD could have issues that need rethinking (like mouse-centric user interface not being as useful on the 360), but the same Source Engine features are available on the 360." - Ninjab3ar, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@ sinfree
If that happens im getting an Xbox 360 for sure!
*Ninjab3ar cancels his pre-order for the Wii and buys Conterstrike: Source for the Xbox360" - Nobi-Wan, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5It's pretty amazing that they're able to fit all those games onto one standard DVD disc. It kinda makes you wonder why Sony is saying that it's absolutely necessary to require a hi-def media format for all next-gen titles.
- ThetaDot, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Ah, okay. Just your one part that said "on the 360 version that's coming soon" had me confused. Thanks.
- MasterFunk, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Source relies on Steam, my guess is that they modifyed it to work off of xbox live.
- Slovenian6474, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@nobi-wan
....and the Day of Defeat team and The Ship. - sinistergfx, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4"I'd say it's more the lighting engine that makes it look plastiky."
Nope. It's the material. If you've got an overblown specular map, then stuff ends up too shiny. Guess who makes the specular map? The artists. - 60days, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Don King is their PR guy
You gotta optimize to utilize! Compress if you wanna impress! Use Bidirectional Reflectance Distribution Functions to, uh, win. - t3hNinj4, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Am I the only one who read the headline and thought the 360's source code had been leaked?
That said, I've been thinking about getting a 360, and this is just sweetening the deal. Despite what some people are saying, Episode 2 makes some pretty big improvements to the graphics engine, and I'd love to be able to play HL2:EP2, Portals, Team Fortress 2, Counter-Strike Source, Day of Defeat, and Dark Messiah of Might and Magic on a system that (unlike my PC) can handle it. - McGrude, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Nothing, but I believe the Source engine also contains network code in addition to the graphics code. This would mean that making a live-aware, or multiplayer on live, game using the Source engine should be relatively straight forward for developers. (it wipes your ass for you).
- kyriakos, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2in my opinion pre-rendered scenes just take credit away from the gameplay and fluidity of the game. all cut-scenes should be done with the same rendering method as the interactive part of the game.
- LMN8R, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1IGN has a few videos up of the 360 version of Half-Life 2 - they've added Episode One-style HDR to the main HL2 game, as well as beefed up the skies to make them look even more incredible. It's pretty damn impressive.
- omatsei, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Goldeneye is unlikely. Even if Valve bought the developers of it, they wouldn't own the IP. Most likely, they'd have to work out some sort of deal with the owners of the IP, whether it's Nintendo, or Rare (now under the Microsoft umbrella), or even MGM, before you'd see any Goldeneye game for the Xbox 360 in stores. So, the steps would be:
1. Goldeneye Source devs get funding and complete it (probably by being purchased by Valve).
2. MGM / Nintendo / Microsoft signs off on whatever royalty deal they think up.
3. They find a distributor (possibly as part of the deal in step #2).
4. Goldeneye: Source is released.
5. Profit! - Nobi-Wan, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3ThetaDot, what "new" Xbox 360's are you talking about? If you're referring to the 360's that are going to be shipping in '07 with the smaller CPU's then that will not make a difference for any of us who already own a 360. They're just making a smaller CPU to cut down on their own costs and it won't effect our gameplay... the system may run a little cooler, that's it.
Here's some info on HL2 for the Xbox 360 from IGN:
"The next-gen console version comes packed with bonuses in addition to the genre-expanding original Half-Life 2 game. Half-Life 2: Episode One and Episode Two add-on levels are also on the disc, as are the stunningly complex puzzle game Portal and the online phenomenon Team Fortress 2."
http://xbox360.ign.com/objects/830/830467.html
EDIT: afex beat me to it. - omatsei, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Two things: First, I don't live in the UK, so I'm going to assume that games cost roughly £50 when they're released. In that case, you spent a total of £60 on HL2, HL2E1 and HL2E2. Most likely, the HL2 collection for the Xbox 360 will cost £50 when it comes out. If you're being ripped off, it's not by much.
Second, You went and purchased the games for a system you had, and enjoyed them when they were new. Almost everybody knows that you get a much better deal, in raw dollars (or pounds) if you wait until the game is at least 6 months old before purchasing it. If you just couldn't wait, then you just can't complain about being ripped off. - uberchaoslord, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I think the best feature of the Source engine is the physics. Its probably the title thats most responsible for the recent advent of physics add-on cards to control world physics.
The best part was flinging the saw blades around! that rocked! - sinistergfx, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1It's a very capable engine and it will be able to scale nicely with new and better content.
Lost coast still looks great. It may not be as whizz-bang impressive looking as Gears of War, but the capability is there. - usefulidiot, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2http://www.unrealtechnology.com/html/technology/ue30.shtml sorry
- dpmcalli, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2@Nobi-Wan
The physic in source is handled by Havok. All the technologies Graphics, AI and physics are collectivly referd to as Source, but the physics is tech licensed from havok.
http://uk.games.ign.com/articles/402/402601p1.html - BenSerwa, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1This is good news. Let's hope this also allows indie developers making stuff like Dystopia and Sourceforts to more easily port their stuff to 360 and get it published.
- trainer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1now you're thinking with portals
- Matt01, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1man valve can be so annoying sometimes, hl2, hl2dm, hl2ep1, hl2ep2 in 1 release.
I spent £30 on hl2, £15 on hl2ep1 and no dout £15 for hl2ep2, so tbh, im being ripped off. - Nobi-Wan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@ utkwes
That's pretty much what I thought, too. I still fail to see why Resistance (a run of the mill FPS) needs over 22GB of space. Are there 13GB+ of prerendered CGI filling up that Blu-ray disc? The only game I tolerate a larger amount of cutscenes for is the Metal Gear Solid series, and even that is pushing it. The thing is, Hideo Kojima uses the in-game engine for those scenes to make the game seem more immersive. - DrScript, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1@Matt01
Then why do you keep buying their games? - Tordenflesk, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1"The version of Source, available for Xbox 360, is optimized to utilize the platform's advance graphics hardware and offer full support for Xbox Live." What the hell does the graphics.engine have to do with Live?
- Derrekito, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1WOW... I'm almost tempted to go out and buy a Xbox 360 Bundle, a surround sound system, and a big ass HD TV... nvm Ill just stick to my PC.
- Nobi-Wan, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1Unless the makers of Goldeneye Source are bought by Valve or something, I don't think we're going to see a version for the consoles. It could happen, though. They did buy Counter-strike to package with Half-Life.
- usefulidiot, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1Wake up? Unreal engine 3 hasnt been released in a commercial product yet. If you are interested you can check it out here, and license it from them at : http://www.unrealtechnology.com/html/technology/ue30.html
Ill leave the single player issue as oppinion, but fact of the matter is that the engine is sub-par and isnt next-gen(very half ass current gen MAYBE).
Whenever the Unreal Tournament titles come out, Epic Games release UnrealEd which blows the doors off Hammer 10x over. Not to mention the Valve SDK is botched to say the least, and very un-elegant (try useful debugging the mp.dll and client.dll's). Unrealscript is very c like syntax and doesnt require you to modify the engine. It is easier to derive your objects and use them, anything from weapons to entities to gamerules. Wake up. - LordSkywalker, on 10/12/2007, -6/+4Hopefully they will tweak it to look better. I love HL2 but compared to other 'cutting edge' titles, the graphics are a little weak. I hope they put Dark Messiah of Might And Magic out for the 360 now.
- Topher06, on 10/12/2007, -5/+3Actually ,it is the fault of the engine, as the engine helps define the overal look for lighting and how materials are lit. Its all in the vertex shading and if the engines vertex shading causes plastic cartoon like lighting, then its not the fault of the designers. Designers can, of course, opt to change the vertex shading, but if you have to start redesigning the engine, there was no point in using it in the first place.
This is why all games using the quake or doom engine, or the Source engine, or unreal engine all have similar look and feel. - gruvsf, on 10/12/2007, -4/+1wait-would that double the number of game titles if Valve release old games for the 360? I mean come on-who needs more than a dozen games 6 months after launch?
- Nobi-Wan, on 10/12/2007, -5/+1Wrong, cgoff. Source IS the engine for Half-Life 2, not Havok.
"The Source™ engine and SDK, the same used to build and power Half-Life 2, is available for license by third party developers. Source provides major enhancements in several key areas including production tools, character animation, advanced AI, real-world physics, and shader-based rendering."
From: http://www.valvesoftware.com/business.html - omatsei, on 10/12/2007, -5/+1What about the HD-DVD drive coming out for the 360? I know Microsoft says it's not for gameplay, but what about using it for pre-rendered scenes?
For instance, say you're playing Lost Odyssey, and you kill some big boss. Without the HD-DVD drive, you'd see a snippet of a pre-rendered scene, some text, who knows... but with the drive, you'd already have the included HD-DVD disc inserted, and instead of the snippet, you'd get a full-blown 1080p magnificent movie of the same info, just prettier? It's probably not going to happen, but it'd be one way to have the same game work on both types of configurations, plus allow Microsoft to be technically correct (it isn't really using it for gameplay, it's for a prerendered scene), and as another bonus, if it was a AAA title doing it, they could sell more HD-DVD drives as addons if word got out that the movies added something extra to the game. Just a thought, but it does kinda make sense. - usefulidiot, on 10/12/2007, -6/+1For those of you praising the source engine as if it were the next best thing since bread and butter..Get real. The source engine sucks. Those of you that are technically include(not you that play the game) and looked its "source" found that its nothing more than a botched hl1 engine. Which in turn is a modifed quake 1 engine. Yes thats right, there is STILL Q1 code in there. The problem with the Source engine is that it relies on BSP geometry for almost everything(IE 8 face cube buildings in hl2). BSP itself is great, and older games relied on that, but its REALLY hard to optimize. Take a look at how the unreal engine handles BSP geometry and uses static meshes for EVERYTHING else. Static meshes are great because you can load one into memory and re-use it, with A LOT higher polygon counts, at a minimal overhead. Valve have a name brand, just like apple or volkswagen. HL2 Honesty was a terrible game over all(and ever worse netcode wise!) and I am glad i didnt buy it(steamdown ftw). The only impressive features were the incorporation of HAVOK'S physics engine. All in all, im tired of people praising the source engine as next-gen when really its botched last-last-gen. All this comes from someone whom has coded with the HL engine for years, and knows the idiosyncrasies of the engine. All you fanboys can digg down all you want, but its the truth.
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