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Professor Pushes For Video Games In Schools
extremetech.com — Mathematics, science and video games? A U.S. university professor is urging schools to consider using video games as tools to better prepare children for the work force.
MrBabyMan- 592 diggs
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- LemurHorde, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10While schools and workplaces will probably want custom, relevant-to-topic video games, there are also merits to many “non-educational” video games as well. One of these life-skills is creative problem solving. Some great video games encourage and reward players who experiment, take risks, and think outside the box, and these abilities carry over into real life. I especially like ones with challenges where the solution is not obvious and takes a couple tries, even with all the correct tools. (but no cheap gimmicks!) Video games shouldn’t lead the player by hand through the game, even if that means getting stuck for a while. It’s those games in particular that I remember the most fondly later, despite my annoyance at the time.
- foshizlak, on 10/12/2007, -9/+2I want a video game in my car ... preferably a driving game for when I'm stuck in traffic.
- Akaji, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14Creative problem solving? Look no further than The Legend of Zelda games from The Ocarina of Time through Twilight Princess.
Or, for a more classic example, The Incredible Machine! I loved that game (and The Incredible Toon Machine, as well). And Lemmings, Sim City, Oregon Trail, etc... dang, there are so many old 'educational' games that rocked. - rockforever, on 10/12/2007, -4/+6Jack Thompson's head asplode!
- jks52086, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7My Western Civ. professor had us play Civilization and write a paper on it . . . of course I go to university in Kentucky, so it probably wasn't a very good professor, looking back.
- overbored454, on 10/12/2007, -6/+1I'm not sure why we'd need video games in school.
#1. Most kids are going to be playing plenty of video games when they get home or on the weekends.
#2. There is nothing a video game can teach a person that they can't learn in real life unless you expect to be swinging on vines across crocodile infested swamps or climbing weird metallic structures to save princesses who are held hostage by gorillas with above average intelligence.
#3. Shouldn't these kids be visiting real places like banks, stores, corporations, jails (yes I said jails), farms, fire stations, etc.?
#4. Real life has no RESET button. - yuravian, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@overbored454:
"There is nothing a video game can teach a person that they can't learn in real life unless you expect to be swinging on vines across crocodile infested swamps or climbing weird metallic structures to save princesses who are held hostage by gorillas with above average intelligence."
Have you played any video games in the last ten or so years?
- greymaxcat, on 10/12/2007, -8/+1... and Jack Johnson's head explodes...
- neko, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3or his bitter rival, John Jackson.
- guitarh3ro, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3@greymaxcat
I believe you mean Jack Thompson?
Anyhow, I believe in some cases it would be a great idea, as it would help students to get a better understanding of what they are studying. I personally believe the best types would be used in History classes, such as when discussing the Civil or World Wars. When I went to elementary school, we played games for Math class such as "Gizmo's and Gadgets"...I know the Learning Company was well known for making many different educational games. Also, the message educational games would get across works better as well...at least better than listening to a drone of a teacher tonelessly give you notes while half of the class is sleeping. - spensercoke, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4On top of learning tools, its a $35 Billion market.
- Itazura, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4There already are video games for kids in school, it's called Oregon Trail.
Aside from that there is no real evidence this is in anyway a good idea; Japan the leader of the video game world uses zero video games in its schools and they beat the US in every single field and test. You wanna know why that asian kid got a perfect on the SAT using an abacus while you failed the math section completely using a calculator? It wasn't because he played more video games.- Akaji, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5No, it was because of societal and parental pressure causing the kid to either buckle and commit suicide or become a genius.
"The latest NPA data confirm that suicide by elementary- and middle-school students is a serious social problem. The suicide rate for this group rose by a massive 57.6%, representing a total of 93 innocent lives lost, 34 more than in 2002. Among high-school students there was also a sharp rise of 29.3%. In total, 225 young lives were lost in this category. There was also an increase in the number of college students killing themselves. The overall suicide rate among people aged 19 or younger rose by 22%." (Source: http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Japan/FG28Dh01.html , published in 2004) - SirNoobius, on 10/12/2007, -7/+3those are just the emos
- Itazura, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Whether pressured to suicide or not, it still shows what we all know to be true about anything in life, you have to work hard to get what you want. Japan might be at one end of the extreme but America is at the other, we actually support procrastination and babying so much that we want video games to teach our kids about the real world. They already installed DDR machines at the highschool down the street for use during gym class, that is just sad.
- Akaji, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6The issue could be solved in part, Itazura, if we were to get rid of Affirmative Action and stop schools from getting rid of the grading scale/passing students who aren't truly 'passing' (I can recite at least 10 different instances at the High School that I went to where a student got a passing grade - usually a B or an A, even - despite deserving an F... most of those instances are NOT for people in the "Special Learning" program for those who are slow to learn).
Which reminds me of another thing - we need to stop telling kids that it's OK to be "slow to learn" if they aren't verifiably mentally handicapped. There's one girl in particular that I remember who is more likely than not going to fail at life because everyone babied here through High School.
*sigh*. America's education system sucks.
Anyways, in closing, bringing video games into schools isn't an inherantly wrong idea; it's all about how you do it. Your DDR example is, actually, a great way of how to do it (so long as it is only used on occasion... if the gym class gets rid of competitive sports for the sake of DDR, the teacher(s) should get fired). DDR is a great way for overweight kids to ENJOY exercising (I know it worked for me for the year I played it). - Ungarr, on 10/12/2007, -7/+4Its not like being an academic genius makes you any better at living. I would much rather our children be creative and happy then "smart" and suicidal.
- Akaji, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Ungarr: sorry to burst your bubble, but for most people (except for the really, really good artists, writers, musicians, etc.), "creativity" means burger flipping, and burger flipping does not constitute happiness. While I'm not saying that money = happiness, I will say that having to scrounge up just enough money to live for the rest of your life is not fun.
- Sinai, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I was that Asian kid who got the perfect score on the SAT, and let me assure you, I played at least as many video games than every other kid taking the test in the same room as me.
In hindsight, video games taught me at least as much as school did. For example, I was involved in the wholesale creation of a currency system and a law system in a video game, and I consequently learned a helluva lot more about economics from video games than I ever did in class. Similarly, I've reverse engineered fairly complex mathematical formulas to get ahead in games, and I actually sat there and researched real-life iron forging, alloy creation, and glassblowing for temporary competitive advantages in various games. I actually put stuff I did from video games on my post-college resume, since it's awfully hard for people to allow a kid to be in charge of a large organization in the real world.
That, and I can name pretty much every famous weapon used in myth, legend, or reality.
- Akaji, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5No, it was because of societal and parental pressure causing the kid to either buckle and commit suicide or become a genius.
- dunezone, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11My brother is an 8th grade teacher, he was playing guitar hero when he was at walmart, one of his students saw him and his parents, he talked to them while the guitar was strapped around him. I thought it was funny.
- lesty, on 10/12/2007, -7/+2Ya video games in school what a great issue. Screw those people with AIDS. Lets spend our time fighting for games that we could just play later. How lazy are we that we need a constant flashy lights and entertainment everywhere we go
- Akaji, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2lesty; they aren't saying that games should be used as an entertainment medium in schools, but instead as a teaching aid. Speaking of which, what the crap are you going off about AIDS for? If everyone were to focus on one single issue at the same time, nothing would ever get done.
In closing: RTFA. - rockforever, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Very true Akaji. Were not talking about using GTA in classes or something. Think about it like this. You ever play a wordpuzzle? Thats a game. Yet, it takes some critical thinking. I would argue that tetris takes some quick thinking and logic skills as well. There are tons of games that take some smarts. Just because you don't have to memerize facts doesn't mean its not educational. Critical thinking in terms of logic can often translate into visual puzzles that can easily be translated into games. IE- Learning can be fun.
- Akaji, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2lesty; they aren't saying that games should be used as an entertainment medium in schools, but instead as a teaching aid. Speaking of which, what the crap are you going off about AIDS for? If everyone were to focus on one single issue at the same time, nothing would ever get done.
- LordSkywalker, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3@Akaji:
I totally agree. Especially about The Incredible Machine. That game, when played alone, can greatly increase some basic skills of logic in general. And it amazes me how many people I've seen who clearly fail to grasp the logical fundamentals.
These so called "videogames" could more accurately be described as "interactive learning software", and they are no doubt very powerful learning tools. - Brainwave, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Grand Theft Auto made me the educated man I am today.
- AlexApetrei, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2True but in real life , you cant just walk around the street with a bazooka , neither can you have 20 different weapons on you with whom you can decimate the boys in blue that come after you subsequently.
Personally I am a better driver because of GTA. - mst3kcrow, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Which one? Investing in businesses didn't start until Vice City.
- AlexApetrei, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2True but in real life , you cant just walk around the street with a bazooka , neither can you have 20 different weapons on you with whom you can decimate the boys in blue that come after you subsequently.
- silverweed, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0This is such a good idea, we played oregon trail and other great games when I was in elementary school. There are multiple ways this could be implemented, as well, elementary students could earn "points" during class that could be spent on a certain day of the week to redeem for time to play the games. Games for reading, math, and problem solving development are already available--however, for older students (middle school) games are pretty much totally unused. As other people have said, stuff like Sim City and Civilization could be adapted for use in certain curriculum (a game about rome or greece could be pretty awesome for learning about ancient civs, a sim city-like game that talked about government and running a city would be useful etc)
- LavaHot, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Why not have video games as a course? My buddy goes to DigiPen and he's a certifyable genius. There's tons of people out there who have the skills to create video games. If universities want custom video games to educate their students, there are plenty of people who are more than willing to do it.
- khyberkitsune, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0Well, I say we keep it where we've got it right now - in college in computer game design classes, since computer game design became a lucrative business only ~10-15 years ago. (Minus the classical Origin RPGs and stuff like Jill of the Jungle and other Xanadu.)
High school is not the time for anything but very introductory courses. Learn a bit of a few different programming languages, show them how these can be used to make a game thru code example (give them the code, explain it, and show them the end result.) and leave the actual programming itself and higher-level learning for college. That would be a sensible way for this to actually work. You could easily snatch more high-schoolers into programming alone, including game programming for any platform, including PCs. Though, this may have adverse consequences - we may have more *insert popular website with horrible design/userbase here* popping up more often. - neko, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Needs a puzzle game like the old Repton or Boulderdash games, with a level editor. Students can have fun coming up with more creative, ingenious puzzles.
Enigma is a cool addictive game I came across recently. Cross between Marble Madness, Sokoban, Chip's Challenge, and some game called Oxyds which I hadn't played before.
Oooh! or for the advanced courses, I remember an old win16 game called Combat Zone - from the "programmable robot battle arena" genre of games. Come up with a simple basiclike program, then watch your little tank blast other tanks. A real incentive to learn craftier coding techniques. - ShohNuff, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1To those that think that in Japan that scholastic excellence was not aided by video games. One word: sudoku
Peace - LunarOcean, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2This may seem silly to some, but I'm sure video games helped educate me not when I was old, but when I was very young. I play RPGs more than anything else, and it's become apparent to me that watching my brother play Dragon Warrior and actually playing it myself helped me excel in basic math at an early age. I knew simple multiplication and division well before it was taught in our schools due to things like calculating how many battles I needed to level up or buy that bronze knife (although the schools here could certainly teach it earlier than they do). I'm also sure that, by today's standards, the amount of text contained in games (mainly speaking of RPGs here, as they tend to have the longest story and the most overall text) helped my reading level. Sure, the best way is probably by reading books, but lots of games have the text and story to resemble a book. The scripts in games are quite large today.
It goes without saying that games based on historical events can easily help someone learn their world history. Same goes for Geography (Yay Aerobiz SuperSonic), If you look at the four subjects many often think of - math, science, history, and english/literature/writing/whatever-you-wanna-call-it, science is about the only one that doesn't get much accurate coverage.
There's several things important about this. First and foremost, games can provide a way for children to learn while they're having fun - a problem that holds some back in school. Of course it's not like you're studying for a test, but it gives one some familiarity with a subject they may not have had before. As a result, it can make it easier for students to pay attention in class. Quite often, the more you understand something, the more you'll be willing to listen to further explanation on the sucject.
Of course, these games just aren't about academic intellect. They familiarize children with other aspects of life as well. RTSs and other simluation games (Tycoon series, the Sims, etc) force you to manage resources, whether they be material goods or labor. There's budgeting there - something we all need. Some games have relatively complex trading systems going on; prices changing, supply and demand, etc. That's certainly good to get used to.
I know users generally laugh at MMOs here, and that's fine, but they too can play a role. Suddenly, you're going from school into an entirely different society where everyone is more or less treated as an 'adult,' so to speak. There's no college, there's no getting a job - the society you interact with in an MMO is the 'real world' of the MMO in a manner of speaking. In many of these, the player has a reputation and can easily be shunned if they're jerks to others - ninja looting, yelling, immaturity, whatever - it's often looked down upon by the server. They're responsible, which ultimately can lead to an increase i responsibility and maturity.
When I learned to drive, it was easy as hell. I'd like to thank some racing games for that, which are getting mroe and more accuracte and complex as time goes on. Somehow, I bet flying a fighter jet would be more difficult, but I bet it'd be even harder than it would be if I hadn't played around with combat games.
Ok, that's enough I guess. I learned from games, and there is a lot to be learned from doing something you enjoy. It's a shame that many people don't realize it and assume that children are simply wasting their minds away. Some may be, and that's especially true for the MMO part, but as most things in the world, good and bad can come from them. - drake546, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I used to play word munchers, and number munchers on old apples back in elementary school. the word munchers game was a basically a timed based spelling test where you had to move a little guy around on a board and pick out correctly spelled words (or something). but you had to hurry because other critters were trying to move around and eat you.
number munchers (the superior game as i recall) had you moving around solving math problems while dodging enemy critters.
both of them were loads of fun, even had victory screens and got progressivly difficult. of course, my memory is a bit hazy as its been almost two decades since i played them. But there's deffinetly a place for video games in education.
That said, kids also need to be taught the importance of playing, imagination, and *excerise* so they can live fulfulling and healthy lives. Too much video gaming reduces your imagination and thinking processes, as your mind adapts to the games. - inquebiss, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0What a great idea! First, though, we need something more introductory. Since all these kids will need to learn how to play the video games, we should first develop a video game on how to play a video game. Children can then use the control pad and buttons to control a character that is using a control pad and buttons.
Or we can stop coddling our children, stop medicating them, and actually enforce discipline and real education. Teach them how to do math on paper or in their head and not with a calculator before they get to high school. That way, when they drop out, get hired at McDonalds, and ring up my order for $3.06, they won't look at me funny when I hand them a five dollar bill and a penny. - appleshampoo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0@brainwave
Yup me too, it tought me to try to use my hooker out of the mafias territory. They dont take to kindly to my kind. - pm9531, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I'll wait for the wireless chip implanted in my brain that will make learning a thing of the past. 30 games/programs purchased for two kids, none used more than three times. There may be money in games but the professors of the world have yet to figure out how to make any of it.
- rubberbrush, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Let me tell you, it's not a slam dunk. I made a video game to teach Spanish - (a virtual Spanish town with speech recognition) - and when I started 4 years ago teachers would stare at me like a dog watching television. Only in the last few months have we been getting any traction with schools.
I tried to bring my experiences as a pilot to bear on the often boring world of language. It's amazing how entrenched people get.
http://www.3dlanguage.net/cms/ email me and I'll give you a copy if you promise to show it to your teacher.- rubberbrush, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Sorry - "info" at the above domain.
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