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Do gamers need exceptions to DMCA?
arstechnica.com — The Entertainment Consumers Association is backing the FAIR USE Act, while the better-known ESA is not. That's because the ESA doesn't represent gamers, but game developers.
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- racketboy, on 10/31/2007, -1/+31I think this is especially important for older systems that are relatively hard to even emulate and aren't really availible on services such as the Virtual Console or XBox Live Arcade.
The main systems to come to my mind are the Sega Saturn and the Dreamcast. While they may not have been widely successful from a commercial standpoint, there are still a good number of excellent games for them both that haven't been ported to newer systems (Panzer Dragoon Saga, Radiant Silvergun, Jet Grind Radio, etc).
Also, many of these games such as Saga and Radiant Silvergun go for outrageous amounts on eBay simply because they are collectors items. Sega, of course, will never see any of that money, and vintage gamers must either download and burn a copy of the game or fall to eBay scalpers. Of course, this is a grey area if you have never owned the game, but think of how you would feel if your original copy got scratched up.
Ideally, I would like to see more of these rare games get re-released on download services (like we are seeing with Rez and Ikaruga) or ported in a re-release or compilation, but I'm not holding my breath for that...- SSUK, on 10/30/2007, -0/+3This is a good point, however you have to consider that if you already own the game, say Super Mario World on SNES, but your SNES is dead and you have your nice new shiney Wii and retro controller, you have to pay money once again to play the game again. I, as much as I am a retro gamer, don't think I could... Mainly because I'm poor... Secondly because all my old consoles, bar the SNES which is dying, work great still.
- staticneuron, on 10/30/2007, -2/+1Just because you may not be able to find these games it doesn't really justify the copying of their material. "IF" they chose to bring these series back the downloads and the scalpers have hurt future potential customers. Is it really that important that you must pay this vintage game without waiting? Besides I think the point of backups is to stop Disc based copies because honestly non of the systems which are disc based read burned discs without modding and to mod your system is another no no. So the backup arguement becomes really weak in the face of the fact that when you back up your disc based games..... they should become unplayable in your console.
- king98ms, on 10/31/2007, -0/+3Actually the first few models of the Dreamcast do allow burned discs to be played without modification to the console. Though yes, that still does not make it necessary "right" to do so. But all of that is subjective of course.
- LocalH, on 10/31/2007, -0/+1Also, the Sega CD has absolutely NO copy protection - mostly because CD burners were not widespread during its heyday.
- king98ms, on 10/31/2007, -0/+3Actually the first few models of the Dreamcast do allow burned discs to be played without modification to the console. Though yes, that still does not make it necessary "right" to do so. But all of that is subjective of course.
- dashwarts, on 03/29/2008, -0/+0I'm REALLY with you on this one! The day my SNES died due to an accident felt like murder (Couldn't sleep, paranoia against my own self, extreme sadness, etc.). Why? ESA ROM protection. I couldn't obtain the games I held dear to me legally. I felt I had been reborn when I changed the fuse in it. Also, I chipped a xbox (original) just so I could replace the hdd myself.
Old games not for sale anymore being grounds for lawsuits on lost sale? That's INSANE! We need time machines and currency that works through time (both probably impossible or dangerous) to fulfill that. Why isn't copyright the old 14 years it once was???
Rereleases I don't hold much faith in. After Midway Arcade Treasures 3's crap-for-crap Rush port (Come on! N64 one was gold, MAT3's PS2 version could be outperformed by an SNES with no helper chips!), it's worth buying only to emulate a different port of what you just bought.
Modding is another issue. Parts for opening consoles and chips treated like drugs (even changing the fuse on the SNES needed questionable stuff), but I chipped my Xbox (original) just so I could replace a busted hard drive.
- CyruzDraxs, on 10/31/2007, -14/+8It's not really very fair that we should be barred from backing up our own games. My Xbox 360 has destroyed 3 of my games already and I had to pay $40 each to get a replacement from Microsoft. That's ridiculous, considering I could've easily burned a copy and used it instead of the original, if the DMCA would just stop shutting down every attempt at making a modchip. It's obvious that this 'piracy protection' game companies are building into their games and game machines is just an underhanded trick to make them more money. Personally, if I like a game I will buy it. I'll probably download it in some way or another to give it a try fiirst, but I WILL buy a game I enjoy because if no one supported the game companies they would've gone bankrupt long ago. But they didn't. Instead they are filthy freaking rich. I admit that I have plenty of pirated stuff that I haven't paid for, but you know what? If I HAD to pay for it, I wouldn't. A good majority of the games out there are only marginally good enough to even be worth pirating.
The only thing that is going to stop pirating of video games is;
1.) More reasonable prices--$70 for a flimsy piece of plastic that costs them less than $0.50 to manufacture is not reasonable.
2.) Allow us to actually have CONTROL over our games--let us make backups!
3.) Perhaps I might be more motivated to pay for a game that doesn't SUCK so hard.
There has been probably near 1000 games released this year and I could count the ones that didn't suck on one hand.
That is why piracy exists and that is why piracy will CONTINUE to exist until game companies smarten up and stop trying to woo us with flashy graphics and explosions. It gets old.- f4nt0m4s, on 10/31/2007, -1/+16I was a huge opponent of STEAM when I first heard about it, but after using it for the past few years I've been pretty happy. I think that STEAM really is where developers need to go in terms of distribution. Obviously STEAM fails as a platform for non-broadband users, but considering how often I reformat it's nice not having to worry about keeping 20 CDs/DVDs laying around, worrying about installing a hundred patches, and dealing with CD-Keys. I don't miss the days when installing half-life and its many mods meant going through numerous CDs, spending hours snagging patches, and finding servers through the games clunky server finder. It would be nice to see a system like that implemented for the 360 or Wii, a virtual console for new releases. At some point it would be cool to see all the consoles stocked with a decent hard drive and a system that lets you just download the game. I still play the original Half-Life and Counter-Strike, and I don't even know where my copies of those games are. All I do is fire up Steam, spend 10 minutes downloading it, and bam, I'm playing. I've done that at least ten times over the past few years.
- nreynolds, on 10/30/2007, -2/+6I agree that legally we should be allowed to make backups. But (legally) the console manufacturers should be allowed to not let these games run on their systems. If you actually own the game, sure, it'd be nice to be able to make a backup. But everyone knows that if they made backups illegal, tons of people would go out, rent games, burn a copy, and just use that. The developers would lose TONS of money.
The only way I see around this is with some sort of Bioshock-like (PC version) DRM - but hopefully done better. When you buy a CD, you're given a key and can activate the game on up to 2-3 consoles at a time. You can make copies of the game, but still won't be able to activate it more than a given number of times. Rentals would have to work differently though (they'd get a different version of the CD that had some special protection on it or something, i dunno)/
- Shadess, on 10/30/2007, -2/+1more reason why electronic sales should be implemented. Of course this would still have to be done smart with lots of checks and the consumer being able to be recognized for backups. And while its very conceivable and, one would think not to hard to implement, I bet they, the retailers, would find a way to screw that up.
Welcome to Capitalism . . . - h4mx0r, on 11/03/2007, -2/+13Trying to stop pirating eh? Well I advise they drop the act, because its ironically pushing more people towards piracy. No, please don't shove your anti-piracy software in my face. Yes, I know, you put it there because you're afraid I'm going to pirate it. Well now I am, because that ***** anti-piracy software is doing its job: keeping honest customers away while the pirates get all the anti-pirate-free fun.
Oh the irony.- zybch, on 11/03/2007, -0/+17The ONLY people that are inconvenienced by anti-piracy technology are those that have actually bought the content legally.
For instance, the absolute 1st thing I delete from any DVD I'm copying is that ***** "You wouldn't steal a handbag..." *****! and and trailers that the stupid studios (Warner, I'm looking at you!) put on to assault me with!- Blacula, on 10/31/2007, -0/+4DVDs too. It takes upwards of three minutes to get from inserting the disc to playing an episode on the Simpsons Season 8 R4 DVD set. Three minutes doesn't sound like much -- but if you only watch one episode at a time, like I do, that's over an hour spent watching anti-piracy ads, Dolby logos, etc every time you go through a boxset. Want to rent The X-Files and watch an episode a night? You'll spend a total of 10 hours sitting through antipiracy ads. Guess who DOESN'T have to sit through that? Pirates.
I got so annoyed with it that I gave my boxset to a friend and downloaded the xvid DVDRips instead, and put them on XBMC. Now it takes me less than five seconds to start an episode. And you know what -- if they sold DRM-free xvid versions of the episodes through a download service or on a data disc for the same price as the DVD boxset for them.- Blacula, on 10/30/2007, -0/+2Er, I butchered that last sentence. It's supposed to read "And you know what -- if they sold DRM-free xvid versions of the episodes through a download service or on a data disc for the same price as the DVD boxset, I'd buy them."
- Blacula, on 10/31/2007, -0/+4DVDs too. It takes upwards of three minutes to get from inserting the disc to playing an episode on the Simpsons Season 8 R4 DVD set. Three minutes doesn't sound like much -- but if you only watch one episode at a time, like I do, that's over an hour spent watching anti-piracy ads, Dolby logos, etc every time you go through a boxset. Want to rent The X-Files and watch an episode a night? You'll spend a total of 10 hours sitting through antipiracy ads. Guess who DOESN'T have to sit through that? Pirates.
- zybch, on 11/03/2007, -0/+17The ONLY people that are inconvenienced by anti-piracy technology are those that have actually bought the content legally.
- hartley, on 11/03/2007, -1/+17Any disc based media should be an exception to DCMA. Piracy or not, I back up ALL of my CD/DVD based media, 'cause guess what folks, it wont be here forever.
- breakaway, on 10/31/2007, -7/+3YMCA
/sing - DestroyFascism, on 10/30/2007, -0/+1Be nice if I didn't have to kill my DVD player and DVD leaving it in the system....
- Boulo, on 11/03/2007, -5/+14As a game developer, I'd love to not use copy protection schemes - unfortunately whenever we try, gamers consistently prove to us that if we do not, our games simply will not sell due to insane levels of piracy. I hate annoying legitimate users. I hate crippling the usability of our games. I hate being criticised for copy protection. But we've tried it your way, and have the numbers to prove that it does not work.
As for us being rich? Don't let the lucky few percent of developers fool you - most of us are just as strapped for cash in this cut throat industry as anyone in a similar role in other industries.
Sorry to burst your idealistic bubble and stomp all over your rose coloured glasses, but you're dead wrong.- teatime, on 11/03/2007, -0/+7While I can appreciate the developer point of view (I am an application developer myself), I find it hard to believe that there would be the same massive drop in sales today, given that anyone with Internet access can pretty much find any new game for download using google.
I recently bought Bioshock and was shocked by the measures taken to prevent piracy, a quick search on google found the same game minus the ridiculous copy protection.
Other measures such as star force also antagonise legitimate customers and given the problems I have had with it, I will never purchase another game that uses it, how does that effect sales?
However, I think in order to appease both camps maybe some sort of compromise is required, one possibility is the Steam approach, requiring an account to be created on a central server, which also gives you access to the on-line play. I personally have no problem with this.
An alternative would be for publishers themselves to release a patch to remove the copy protection measures some time after release, that way they can protect the initial sales (usually before Xmas given the number of releases at that time) and then appease valued customers after that.- Blacula, on 10/30/2007, -2/+0The disc copy protection doesn't make it invulnerable to piracy, and yeah, it'll be available online. But it'll stop a lot of casual, non-savvy users from making a quick copy in Nero for their friend, which makes up most piracy.
- heliosys, on 10/30/2007, -0/+1The need to change DVD to play different game sucks. Maybe you could try using a USB device as a key and not the DVD itself or something like steam.
- BearinG, on 11/03/2007, -0/+3So the pirates will be stopped because of the copy protection? Never.. I don't think i've heard of any software never being cracked..
Hell even Hardware protections are broken.. can't get much deeper than that
- teatime, on 11/03/2007, -0/+7While I can appreciate the developer point of view (I am an application developer myself), I find it hard to believe that there would be the same massive drop in sales today, given that anyone with Internet access can pretty much find any new game for download using google.
- zhulien, on 10/31/2007, -2/+8hahaha, they think games are only on discs
- racketboy, on 10/30/2007, -0/+1Discs are the only thing easy to duplicate unless you have a bunch of cart copiers and blank carts.
- KineticFlow, on 10/31/2007, -0/+4Cart copying and blank carts has become very easy with devices that use flash memory.
See how DS homebrew is done, for example.
Although I agree with your points, that physical medium does make things harder, but heck, people mod Wii.
- KineticFlow, on 10/31/2007, -0/+4Cart copying and blank carts has become very easy with devices that use flash memory.
- racketboy, on 10/30/2007, -0/+1Discs are the only thing easy to duplicate unless you have a bunch of cart copiers and blank carts.
- Philluminati, on 11/03/2007, -0/+16In my eyes this isn't even up for discussion. I'll duplicate any disk I own or copy it to an ISO image. I didn't pay for the plastic I paid for the content. If I haven't violated their copyright then no one can come after me. As for the distributors? I'm not even distributing it so it doesn't affect them at all. This issue is such a restriction of freedom I will happily ignore it completely. It's far too ludacris to get caught anyway. It doesn't damage anyones sales or rights - their is no victim and no violation. My disk, My Copy. End of Story
- heliosys, on 11/04/2007, -0/+6Try asking RIAA if you have 1/2 the songs in a compilation CD can you pay 1/2 the price. To a publisher, a damage disk is a new sale.
- tdelet, on 11/04/2007, -1/+5That would be fine if you made the laws yourself, but legally, you are wrong. Now, in principle, I agree with you totally. The laws are wrong.
- Prometheum, on 11/03/2007, -0/+3Did I hear you right, did I hear you sayin'
That you're gonna make a copy of a game without payin'?
Come on, guys, I thought you knew better don't copy that floppy! - floatingpoints, on 11/04/2007, -0/+9I hate when people play technicalities. Whatever happened to common sense? I don't CARE about the DMCA - I know it's a crock of *****, so I won't follow it.
If I paid for it the first time, I don't care if you re-release it on a different platform 20 years later... I still paid for the ***** game the first time and don't need to again. This whole concept of, "but but but, it's on a new platform!" is stupid. Music, for example. Say someone bought Led Zeppelin back in the 70's ... still the same music, but now it's on CD, or MP3. Why should they have to rebuy it? Maybe if you add something NEW I would... but the same thing? Forget it.
Let's all quit being stupid and revive common sense thinking. We're not talking about new models of cars, or sequels that are entirely different games, but original titles where the code hasn't been touched since the day it left for packaging.
If I wanna download a copy for an emulator I have, then guess what? I'm going to. And there isn't much you can do about it. If you don't like it, then I guess YOU can rebuy it. Mkay?
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