What is Digg?86 Comments
- annonimality, on 10/12/2007, -0/+13@jwyles
Good thing for Vince Young intelligence isn't taken into account for the Heisman, else he'd be at the bottom of the list:
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/draft/2006-03-01-young-wonderlic_x.htm - mt066, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12Yep, it's uncomfortable to watch this situation, especially now that he's pro and out of the NCAA. Maybe we can hope to hear more about this at The Tostitos Fiesta Bowl, Fed Ex Orange Bowl, or the Allstate Sugar Bowl.
Or they could start a segment called the "Budweiser Athlete Investigation of the Week." - flizzoyd, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9In 1999 Peter Warrick from FSU was a sure favorite to win the Heisman, lost his chance to win just because someone let him underpay at Dillards. http://espn.go.com/ncf/news/1999/1006/99772.html If this is true about Bush, his would be a much worse offence.
- Jwoey, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11It was on sportscenter this morning.
- mitchellk, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10Slave labor? The kid gets a free ride, with better meals than the average student, for four years at a major college he wouldn't get into if he couldn't run a football. That's a good $100,000 or more pay for that "slave labor".
This is nothing new, though. When I was in school, some of the players were upfront about the coach making money available to them and our star, Heisman winning, running back, a kid from a poor family, was driving around campus in a new Cadillac. - beretta627, on 10/12/2007, -5/+12Also, a link to Dan Wetzel's commentary on Yahoo! Sports:
http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/news;_ylt=AvTF_0h07zyE7PGD4ixTyEY5nYcB?slug=dw-bush_usc&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
Wetzel is spot on in this situation. I'm tired of seeing marquee programs get away with murder (proper usage for USC, btw) just because they sit in major media markets. NCAA needs to sack up and really let SUC have it! - RaistlinMajere, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9Because the Texans are dumb...that's why. Or they wanted to guarantee themselves another #1 pick next year.
- Chupatumama, on 10/12/2007, -5/+11Who gives a flying F?
He is now a pro.
And with universities, coaches, athetic directors, sponsors, sports reporters.announcers and EVERYONE involved making millions of college football, Im happy for any kid who can get something in return for their 4 year slave labor because the overwhelming majority of them will never see a professional training camp.
College sports are an embarassment and the players are the one who should be the least embarassed. Its the parasites who live off this industry that should be embarassed. - Jwoey, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5@spido
What a ridiculous misunderstanding you have with the NCAA and it's rules. - Avogadro65, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Because it's not just a problem with Bush, he's just a glaring example of a systemic problem at USC. Like Wetzel says in the article linked above, do you think that recruits weren't influenced at all by seeing what Bush received?
If they get the best recruits (which they have the past few years), it creates unfairness in the competition.
I don't necessarily blame the players in situations like this--it'd be hard to resist gobs of money when the only penalty is loss of eligibility, and you're going pro anyway. The schools and NCAA are supposed to do a better job of preventing this though, not creating an open relationship with a previously convicted agent like USC did. - talmaximus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4A few commenters should probably just start replacing the phrase "who cares" with "I don't care". A lot of people obviously care or this thing wouldn't be plastered all over the news. Reggie competed in a non-professional league that has rules about this sort of thing. If the allegations are confirmed (and they very well could be) then this will affect Reggie, the University, the fans, and future athletes at USC. When our school was found guilty of actions in violation of NCAA rules there were no televised games, no eligibility for championships, and reduced scholarships. The actions of one person (along with the agents and boosters who are constantly trying to find a way to bend the rules) could affect the university in drastic ways for the next couple of years. USC has not always been a dominant program and until five or so years back, had to answer to plenty of other schools with great programs out there. (The field of competition is smaller right now...but still there). Can you imagine what one or two years worth of NCAA sanctions could do to their program? To their staff?
Athletes will go where they can be seen and if their games aren't televised you can be sure a lot won't care to go to USC. Athletes that are already there will suffer the penalty of not being able to compete for championships. Why won't they compete in a championship? Not because of their record...not because of their poor performance...but because of one guy who (if proven guilty) was too selfish to follow the rules.
Fans will see one of the most talented players in the past ten years be stripped of most of his accomplishments. They will be null and void because he couldn't accomplish those things according to the rules. He knew the rules and whether he thought they were unfair or not doesn't change the fact he signed the contract stating he would abide by them. Would any of us endure four years of hard work, competition, and little financial return if we knew we had the chance to make more money in that fifth year then most people in this world will never see in their lifetime? The players know the risks and they know the rules. Actions like these come with heavy consequences and a lot of people care. - Ekoe, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I agree, why is this investigation happening after he's left. They can't do anything to Bush. Worse case for him is his Heisman is taken away. Worse case for the school is their National Championships are erased and the current athletes are hurt because of suspension of the University.
The whole thing is a witch hunt by someone at Yahoo who either a) really hates USC and/or Bush (just look at the post above from the guy still claiming the first championship didn't count, like this is the first time a split NC was announced) or b) looking for something to get people to visit the yahoo sports page.
Yes, things don't look good, but since when did publishing the results of anyones investigation automatically convict a person of alleged crimes? People are taking this article as judge, jury, and executioner (thanks, DAN, for your unbiased journalism. It's because of him I'm never visiting Yahoo again).
I know this might seem extreme, but I would rather a formal trial to take place to decide who did wrong, and to make sure a fair punishment is carried out. The people who care, er yahoo, want a pound of flesh and I would like to see that it not be taken out of the wrong person (or persons).
I keep hearing people talk about stringing up USC, or Bush, but what about these damn agents? Honestly, these are the guys instigating the crimes and should be held accountable more than the athlete. This is the agents job, they know (or should) the right, and they know the wrong more than the athlete since they've been at it longer.
If you string up an athlete, your relying on the potentially immature and ignorant to not buy in to their own hype when they're less than a year or two away from being a superstar (which will always repeat itself because there a fresh crop of these athletes every year.)
String up Bush this year, ten years from now the kids in elementary school aren't going to remember what happened. String up an agent (and take away their ability to work in the field) and I bet you'd have far fewer incidences because they will remember what happened 10 years from now.
I'm not saying an athlete should go unpunished, but why isn't anyone calling for the heads of these agents instigating the crimes? - spidoman, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6It's not just USC. You wanna know something Vince Young probably accepted benefits too. Maybe not a house, but still. It's just like steroids. They'll catch who they want to catch, and they'll let who they want to be free, go free.
- BDWong, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3"The players don't get a free ride. They bust their asses for the 4 or 5 years they are in school..."
I'm failing to see the big difference between the people that work just as hard for academic scholarships so they don't have to pay for school either. - wabbitman1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3this is a very big deal. anyone remember the whole Michigan Fab Five ordeal? Chris Webber lied and if he wasn't Chris Webber he would have went to jail. The real questions is why dont they investigate these things while the guys are actually students at the schools, not years after they win the championship or some other accolade.
- JackyTreehorn, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4@uttles
"Make sure all schools are on the same playing level? Why? Are we a bunch of communists now?"
This guy sounds like a Yankees fan. - JackyTreehorn, on 10/12/2007, -5/+8USC = University of Spoiled Crybabies
- talmaximus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@spidoman
You may want to take your racist comments somewhere else. Unless, of course, you'd like to continue broadcasting your ignorance to who knows how many. If that's the case then by all means... continue. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4" How do think Shaq became a millionare?"
" Playing collage ball."
-Baseketball - pt4117, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4@reid this was talked about at the end of the year last year. ESPN had it on both PTI and Around the Horn, asking reporters if he should/would be striped of the Heisman because of the house thing.
Sure they love talking about SC (and Notre Dame), but they aren't hiding this. - Jwoey, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4That's actually something that the Heisman committee doesn't know the answer to. Heisman isn't directly affiliated with the NCAA, so if he's determined ineligible for 2005, the committee doesn't HAVE to strip him of the trophy. If it is stripped, it also doesnt mean that VY will win it, they can leave the Heisman winner for 2005 blank.
- zoombusa, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6What do you all mean who gives a F about it because he is in the NFL. If they broke the rules then they should pay. It is not fair for a program to give money to players and their families. The student is getting free education, room, and board. What else would a college student want?
They need to crack down on these things to make sure all schools are on the same playing level. That is the rules that all the universities made and they must abide by them. If not they are punished.
I think it is funny when you people don't care about rule breaking. And yet you wonder why society had degraded so much. Just point the mirror back in your face. - talmaximus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@jwyles
Not to mention your bias. - talmaximus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@infizzle
The Heismann also has to do with excellence and whether or not the Heismann wants to be associated with someone who willfully broke the rules. Of course the Heismann and the NCAA aren't tied together directly, but a player's performance shouldn't override the fact that if he was guilty he shouldn't have had the opportunity to compete for it in the first place.
When that Little League ballplayer was confirmed to be ineligible due to his age, none of his achievments mattered, nor were they acceptable because he was not eligible to compete under the terms of the awards. If the Heismann committee decides that Bush was not appropriately eligible to compete under these new circumstances, then they can take his trophy away and there would be nothing wrong with that. It doesn't matter if Bush PLAYED the entire season or not, if he wasn't supposed to be playing those games due to newly discovered ineligibility then any awards he won can and arguably should be taken. Just because the NCAA and the Heismann aren't run by the same shop, doesn't mean that these accusations (if proven true) won't result in actions by both the NCAA and the Heismann committe.
I'm not the one who started this thread using a single game's numbers as references here, you did with your opening game blurb. You actually proved my point by saying that 'pointing to a single game and saying that one had a better game than the other is pointless...' It is pointless and irrelevant to the article at hand. - skubiszm, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2You messed up the quote.
Remer: "Alright dude, listen to me carefully. Do you think Shaq got rich playing in Orlando?"
Coop: "No, he got rich playing in college, everybody knows that." - BrianMarshall, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2When are we going to stop pretending that these kids are amateurs? They raise millions for the school. They are doing press conferences and other PR events that generate more publicity for the schools than the president of the school, or probably any prof on campus. In the meantime, they are scrutinized by the press and by armchair quarterbacks around the country.
The NCAA and the NFL have conspired to create a farm system that has a school-based fan base with a loyalty that is hard to match in a pro context. In return, the schools get far more money than they pay out in scholarships, the NFL doesn't have to fund a AAA program like MLB, and everybody wins.
Why shouldn't these athletes be able to benefit from the market that they create? I'd love to see a college player's union, and have some way of having the players compensated based on their on-field work. Yes, it would yield a less level playing field in the game. But we already have an unlevel playing field when it comes to money the schools gain (just think of the TV money the Fighting Irish get vs. other schools with similar programs but a lesser fan base.
As far as I'm concerned, college athletes are professionals in every way except that they can't get paid. If these were AAA baseball teams, we'd all be up in arms about their treatment. - talmaximus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2It is very curious why this wasn't picked up on earlier and who knows it probably could've been. Those worst case scenarios are pretty bad though. For a guy to be stripped of a Heisman Trophy, that's not light. Granted they can't keep him from playing all those games but they can take away future opportunities from players and coaches that didn't (presumably) have anything to do with the infractions.
I also agree that there seems to be a guilty till proven innocent stigma with the media and public perception. That's the way things are always giong to be though and some of the comments in that article by the accused marketing agents are pretty self incriminating. Something to the effect of 'we had no idea that loans of that nature would be infractions against NCAA rules'. Also, though it isn't wise practice to take everything published in an article like an actual investigation's results, Reggie was closely tied to some suspicious stuff. He played with fire in those relationships and now...whether he's truly guilty or not...he's getting burned. Is there a reason he had to be an intern with that company? Was he working on his career in marketing? In the corporate world that's called 'conflict of interest' and is putting himself in a completely unnecessary (especially Reggie Bush) position. Today's athlete in the NCAA has to know that they can't just accept things for themselves or their family. - mt066, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2It's not just like theyre goofing around playing a game. For a ranked D1 team, especially with the potential to go pro, football is their life. They are "paid" by being put in an extremely high pressure program where you're expected to perform 110% all the time, every day. It's not just "playing a game on Saturday."
Besides, if you discovered something using the academic skills from your "real" major, then you'd be able to profit from it without the NCAA prosecuting you. - talmaximus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@pt4117
Just like in every other institution that wants to take itself seriously, performance cannot be the only guideline. There are expected standards of behavior and players are made aware of these standards before they can compete on the collegiate level. That's why.
And...Reggie's the only one of the two whom we have any kind of proof regarding accepting gifts. You've got some evidence against VY? Bring it to the table. - iceperson, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2"If someone who gets an academic scholarship accepts a gift from someone, do they get their scholarship and all awards taken away?"
Can get some ketchup with that red herring? - Dallas70, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1You misspelled broke the rules
- talmaximus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1NFL performance not withstanding...one of the two guys has been pegged for accepting gifts and breaking NCAA violations while the other has not. Also, one of these guys won the national championship game between these two teams last year and one did not. Everyone else is just going to remind you of VY's numbers versus Bushes in last year's championship game. I think the point of the VY campaign (Texas bias not included) is the fact that if Bush did in fact break these rules and if VY did not...VY was more deserving of the Heisman than Bush. If these allegations come out and are proven during the actual season, Bush doesn't win the Heisman...and maybe doesn't even play...VY however would be a very close shoe-in for the Heisman in that scenario.
Lastly, none of us knows which of these two guys are going to shine the brightest in the NFL and that argument isn't even relevant to the article. How many of us had Tom Brady pegged as a Super Bowl MVP before he earned the award? - kromeassassin, on 10/12/2007, -6/+7F the Trojans. They are a bunch of whining bitches.
- BDWong, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Did you even read what I said? My point is that the poor athletes don't necessarily work any harder than someone with a difficult academic scholarship. They're just working with their own different, acquired skills. If you can get an athletic scholarship, more power to you; just don't act like you have it so much worse than everyone else.
Edit: Yes, he was good on Oz too. - BeachSide, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1My guess is, is that those that think college football players receive a "free ride" while attending school have never been involved in any sort of athletic program while in college.
Not all players are on scholarship
Not all players receive "free meals"
Not all players receive free housing
Not all players... I could go on and on but hopefully you get the point.
What was that running back's name that went to Hawaii then to the NO Saints?
He lived in his 80's Toyota pick up on the side of the road. Could not work essentially because all of his time was taken with football, school, tutors, etc... When his teammates tried to smuggle food from the "scholarship players only" cafeteria and give it to him so he could eat they got in trouble (due to the NCAA rules that would have gotten the school in trouble). The list goes on for this guy. He persevered and during his senior year finally was granted a scholarship. Then graduated and was drafted into the NFL.
Sounds like an easy life to me... yeah right.
Reggie Bush and USC should be penalized hard for this, and I think they will. It is a clear violation of the rules. - zoombusa, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4what does fair play have to do with being a commie? Man there are more idiots on Digg then out in society.
- Dallas70, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1 dixmitty,
Interesting argument on the age thing, but can you say basketball and baseball are better off by allowing High Schoolers to be drafted? Most people are saying that the NBA has suffered due to a flux of teenagers becoming pros without honing their game. One of the judges who ruled in the Maurice Clarett appeal noted the the NFL is better off having the 3 year after high school limit.
And the classes - thanks to an Iowa player back in the late 80s (Can't remember his name) the NCAA has cracked down and is requiring players to obtain a certain # of credits towards a degree they pick (I think it's only 12 a year but it prevents a guy from taking bowling, basket weaving, etc. while majoring in chemistry). - lsdeath, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Got to give it to the guys who pulled this off. I mean for a lousy $100,000 who knows what kind of pr deal they got. The kids a millionaire now and I'm sure carries a much bigger price tag.
This kind of ***** is going to continue to happen as long as college athletes can reach celebrity status without any of the financial benefits that usually entails. - uttles, on 10/12/2007, -5/+6F the NCAA. They make millions off the players then get mad when one of em makes some money. The NCAA can go to hell.
- iceperson, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2"They do physical labor that less than 1% of the population is even capable of, and they offer a service to the university that a very small number of people can provide. The university makes a disproportionate amount of money off of them, and therefore the analogy to slave labor."
Reggie Bush + USC exposure and training = NFL career for gobs of money.
For every "slave" playing ball there are thousands who would trade them places in a heartbeat just for the opportunity. - pt4117, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4Why should he be stripped of it? He may have technically been ineligible, but it's not like he was taking performance enhancing drugs or anything. He still went out on Saturday and ran all over the other teams. He was the best player out there (according to the committee.). It shouldn't matter that he got illegal perks because he was so good. His performance was still better than the rest.
And do you really think that Vince, or any other star player, never got something special? - JackyTreehorn, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4...who the ***** is monkeywizard?
...why does this person comment on articles while having no idea who the article is talking about? - Dallas70, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1If someone who gets an academic scholarship accepts a gift from someone, do they get their scholarship and all awards taken away?
Unless the gift came from an immediate family then yes they can lose their scholarship. The awards can only be taken away if said player would have been ruled ineligible while playing, i.e.
I'm no fan of the NCAA (Our basketball coach had a cookout and to appease the NCAA guys he had to charge his players $5 each to attend) but $100,000??? That's a blantant disregard for policy and yes, at the minimum he should be stripped of the Heisman - spidoman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1>>>@spidoman
You may want to take your racist comments somewhere else. Unless, of course, you'd like to continue broadcasting your ignorance to who knows how many. If that's the case then by all means... continue.
lol, sarcasm buddy sarcasm. - rmcnei1, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Thank you. VY is going to be a huge bust in the NFL, the Titans are kidding themselves. Bush, on the other hand, has had an immediate impact, maybe more so off the field with all his charity work than the 141 yards he posted last week against Cleveland.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Yea I probably messed it up. I was also thinking about the lines between Remer and the bad guy owner (As you can tell I haven't seen the movies in years but I love it)
Note to self: Watch DVD tonight while drunk. - mt066, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Yeah I was agreeing. The other post was directed at Alpha. Stupid 1 tier system.
- infizzle, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1People have hit it on the nose -- the agents are the ones the NCAA and lawmakers should go after. That's the only way things are going to change. It's impossible for schools to police all of their athletes (as the NCAA correctly observed in 2001), and to depend on young kids to make important decisions with their families at stake is not fair.
Sidenote: I find the comments about VY extremely amusing. Right after the season ended last year, I couldn't wait for VY to start playing in the NFL just so I could rub it in the face of all the VY fans -- he's a complete flop and will continue to be. Yanked after one series and one interception -- oh wow! 34 yards passing and 3-4...those are impressive numbers...yeah right! If they were impressive, he would have gone back in the game...Speaking of numbers...Do I need to remind you of Bush's opening numbers? - infizzle, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Timeout. Yes, if the allegations prove true, there is no denying Bush is at fault. But here are the facts regarding the Heisman:
Bush PLAYED the entire season and posted the more impressive numbers in the eyes of the Heisman voters. The Heisman has nothing to do with the NCAA. Even if the NCAA negates Bush's entire season, the committee can still leave Bush with the Heisman if they choose to -- the NCAA cannot take that away from him.
There was no question (in my mind at least) that Bush would not have a great game against Texas. Bush did well against slow defenses, White did well against the quick defenses. So pointing to a single game and saying that one player had a better game than the other when the two teams played is ridiculous. Young had a better game because USC's linebackers were terrible and inexperienced. Bush had a poor game because Texas had an amazing (and extremely quick) Defense.
If the Heisman is taken from Bush, there should not be a winner for the 2005 season IMO. Who would want sloppy seconds anyways? - iNoles, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Petter Warrick is best wide receiver in that time.
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