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56 Comments
- niradg, on 09/30/2008, -4/+13Very cool (no pun intended). Will they have home refrigerator/freezer models?
- inactive, on 09/30/2008, -0/+8Hopefully they can deep freeze morons like you in such refrigerators so that 300 years from now, when MAN has progressed a little, they can walk by you in a museum and still know what a DUMBASS looked like.
- glasnostic, on 09/30/2008, -0/+8i would like to see the legislation that was blocking the use of that technology in this country.. i would like to see who voted for it, and who contributed to their campaigns.
- Charlesbian, on 09/30/2008, -2/+8Just to spite people? Are you twelve?
- atact88, on 09/30/2008, -0/+5Greenfreeze uses a propane/isobutane mix as the refrigerant. In other words, it's fueled by oil, and you have a machine performing a heat exchange via explosive, combustible chemicals in your kitchen. The "good" news is that if it explodes, it'll only produce CO2 and water as greenhouse gases.
http://archive.greenpeace.org/ozone/greenfreeze/ - singebkdrft, on 09/30/2008, -0/+5How is it working without a CFC or HCFC?
Is it still using a vapor-compression cycle?
Is it using hydrocarbons? (aka propane, butane)
(I'd love if the article actually talked about the technology used...) - ryan899, on 09/30/2008, -0/+4You would have also got that if you RTFA.
- camg188, on 09/30/2008, -0/+3"It’s sad that the USA has had to wait 16 years to receive such a widely-used technology"
Instead of being condescending, Ariel should provide more information about the freezer.
Such as:
What does it use as a refrigerant and what are the positives and negatives about it?
Why hasn't it been allowed to be used in the US?
What is it's energy use compared to a refrigerator using HFCs?
Are there residential versions?
As it is, this article is just a plug for Ben & Jerry's and a warning against HFCs. - cr42yr1ch, on 09/30/2008, -0/+3Well its using HCs (hydrocarbons) instead, presumably butane, thus is almost certainly a vapour-compression cycle.
- skav, on 09/30/2008, -0/+2HCFC were dangerous to the ozone layer (blocks UV but not directly related with atmosphere heat entrapment), but HFC is dangerous as a greenhouse gas.
From the wikipedia article:
... However, HFCs and perfluorocarbons do have activity in the entirely different realm of greenhouse gases, which do not destroy ozone, but do cause global warming. Two groups of haloalkanes, hydrofluorocarbons (HFCs) and perfluorocarbons (PFCs), are targets of the Kyoto Protocol. [2] Allan Thornton, President of Environmental Investigation Agency, an environmental watchdog, says that HFCs are up to 12,500 times as potent as carbon dioxide in global warming.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haloalkane#Hydro_fluo ... - whatever01, on 09/30/2008, -0/+2Not that it makes it any better, but isobutane is commonly used as a propellant in aerosol sprays. http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-isobutane.htm
The amount that's in the home units being sold by Toshiba and ***** is on the order of 48 grams. http://archive.japantoday.com/jp/feature/195
Also, to say that a refrigerator that uses propane/isobutane as a working fluid is "fueled by oil" is a mistake, unless your electricity is produced by oil fired power plants. A working fluid is not consumed, but recycled, it is a component, made from fossil fuels, but it isn't readily consumed. It's a subtle difference. - hiPpymIck, on 09/30/2008, -0/+2theres a link with info in the article..
http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/news/greenpeace-and- ... - NovaPrime9, on 09/30/2008, -0/+2Why'd they put a freezer into orbit?
- PennFarmer, on 09/30/2008, -0/+2Can I get a reference for the HFC being 1400 times worse than CO2? CFC and HCFC were supposed to be the bad ones. I cannot find documentation stating that HFC is that bad.
- sultanica, on 09/30/2008, -0/+1about time they figure this one out
- TheMachine1, on 09/30/2008, -0/+1Its interesting that so many non-fossil fuel burning activities are a big factor in global warming: methane from cows burps, nitrous oxide and methane from animal waste, methane from landfills(paper and food waste), excess water vapor (from irrigation), refrigerants. Big oil's denial of global warming has made it miss a perfect opportunity to blame others and invest in solutions to these other major sources of global warming.
http://www.petfoodindustry.com/uploadedImages/Petf ...
(leaves off water vapor but its been mention before as a weak global warming agent but in such high concentration in the air to be a big over all factor) - macdady843, on 09/30/2008, -0/+1And tell you that Man-made Global Warming was one of the biggest shams in American/World History!! And wonder how so many people ever got duped into believing it!!
- camg188, on 09/30/2008, -0/+1That link has information all about the refrigerant, but not about any actual freezers. I'd like to know how much electricity it uses in normal operation compared to comparable freezers using HFC's?
When evaluating different technologies, the impact of the entire product lifecycle has to be considered. Component materials, manufacturing, product use, end of lifecycle...
The article, link and links on the greenpeace link only deal with a specific component material - the refrigerant. - hiPpymIck, on 09/30/2008, -0/+1the link says theyre unbiased (neither pro nor anti)
info on green stuff
http://www.thegreenguide.com/about/tggi
..im thinking greenwash antidote - plhofmei, on 09/30/2008, -0/+1They haven't patented it yet, it's double secret.
- icebane, on 09/30/2008, -0/+1Some helpful info: http://www.thegreenguide.com/doc/ask/greenfreeze
- strictnein, on 09/30/2008, -0/+1Note to article writer: A 1.5MB JPG is a bad idea, as is having the browser resize it.
- leerayIG88, on 09/30/2008, -0/+1Sub-ZErooooo!
- RMoore08, on 09/30/2008, -0/+1I could have sworn it was CFCs
- Suricou, on 09/30/2008, -0/+1Thats 1400(/24,000, depending on source) times as bad as carbon dioxide in a volume-to-volume comparison. That doesn't mean a lot. A freezer will emit a small quantity of HFC after many, many years of service - and that's without recycling. While carbon dioxide, while much less potent a gas per unit volume, is produced in far higher volume.
- lazn, on 09/30/2008, -0/+1It uses R600a also known as isobutane..
- inactive, on 09/30/2008, -0/+1shut your slave mouth
this is last years hdtv
it won't make you happy - Jareth86, on 09/30/2008, -0/+1Can they team up and release that Einstein Fridge instead?
http://cleantechnica.com/2008/09/22/einstein-refri ... - Suricou, on 09/30/2008, -0/+1You can't use water vapor to go below freezing, for rather obvious reasons involving blockages.
It does make a good coolent in air conditioning though.
As for it's role in global warming, any emisions from human activity are probably offset by all the transpiration we have prevented by clearing plants. - hiPpymIck, on 09/30/2008, -0/+1or continue to marvel at
the number of dumbasses
who dupe themselves into believing
climate change - man made or not - will
never happen - PennFarmer, on 09/30/2008, -0/+1Thanks for the clarification. I guess I was getting all of the *FCs mixed up.
- dreamlayers, on 09/30/2008, -0/+1A guy blew up a car in an attempt to show that hydrocarbon refrigerants are safe: http://www.vasa.org.au/pdf/memberlibrary/hydrocarb ...
- mouthymadness, on 09/30/2008, -0/+1Dude. Mankind is De-evolving....
- zombiecarlin, on 09/30/2008, -0/+1HFCs - hydrofluorocarbons
HFCS - High Fructose Corn Syrup
If what's powering the freezer doesn't ***** you then what's in the ice cream surely will. NO WIN! - hiPpymIck, on 09/30/2008, -0/+1
your link says they are a greenwash free zone
http://www.thegreenguide.com/about/tggi
..sounds good - everfresh59, on 09/30/2008, -0/+1Whatever this thing is using, and however it saves us from imminent death, it's likely to cost 3-4 times more than a regular one. You need money to save the planet...
- m85476585, on 09/30/2008, -0/+1It was, but they outlawed CFCs because they destroy the ozone layer. New refrigerants don't destroy ozone, but they can apparently contribute to global warming.
- whatever01, on 09/30/2008, -0/+1According to this ( http://archive.japantoday.com/jp/feature/195 ) article, Toshiba and ***** are building isobutane cooled refrigerators for home use, and "The price of a new product is about 10% higher than its nonhydrocarbon counterpart."
It took a couple of minutes to find that information out, so I can see that would interrupt a knee-jerk response. - DougieD, on 09/30/2008, -0/+1welcome to digg
- whatever01, on 09/30/2008, -1/+2It's so much fun to spout off with your rants when you start by saying "well, I can't even read the information, but I'll tell you what I think." It frees you from the bounds of rational discussion and allows you so much latitude to just be a dufus.
A couple minutes with Google found this: In 2002, Toshiba and ***** started selling isobutane/propane refrigerators in Japan. It's more a efficient medium than HFCs, but did require redesigning the defrosting system. At the time, "The price of a new product is about 10% higher than its nonhydrocarbon counterpart."
http://archive.japantoday.com/jp/feature/195 - whatever01, on 09/30/2008, -0/+1Too bad there's not a way to find information on the internet when you have a couple keywords like isobutane and refrigerator.
Oh, wait...
http://archive.japantoday.com/jp/feature/195
Basically, the modifications Toshiba and ***** required come down to some additional safety systems, and redesigning the defrosting system to keep the max temperature down. If you're not running a frost-free system, it sounds like you could just about run this in your bone-stock fridge.
So, it's not very different than what you've got now. - Suricou, on 09/30/2008, -0/+1No 1,1,1,2-tetrafluroethane?
That's one of my favourite gasses. - HerbSolo, on 09/30/2008, -0/+1I first thought i was reading the onion. I'm from Europe, and here HFCs are forbidden for about 20 years now.
- camg188, on 09/30/2008, -0/+0Is it based on the Einstien's design that was on Digg a few days ago from the same website (CleanTechnica)?
- inactive, on 09/30/2008, -0/+0An extra 10% for something that costs no more an a 134a refrigerator actually R-290 is a little more efficient the R134a so the HC fridge likely costs less to build unless they are including a safety system that detects leaks then it would add $50.
- denis037, on 09/30/2008, -3/+3http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=pu ...
- HerbSolo, on 09/30/2008, -1/+1NH3 - Ammonia
- inactive, on 09/30/2008, -0/+0It uses a mix of butane and cyclopropane it's nothing new you can even charge an existing refrigeration system with it making a few minor changes.
BTW there really is no reason it should cost more except for maybe increased insurance since the refrigerant is flammable.
This is why it was delayed in the US as it had to pass safety testing.
It is safe for small systems but would be crazy dangerous to use in an HVAC system.
A small freezer may use 12oz of HC refrigerant it'll dissipate if it leaks but a central air conditioning system could use 15lbs or more of refrigerant which would be like opening a BBQ propane tank. - 6minuteabs, on 09/30/2008, -0/+0Nice response hippy.
- TheThirdWheel, on 09/30/2008, -7/+7Site is blocked at my work, but I have the sneaky suspicion it costs more than a comparable freezer. I love how anti-big business hippies fall so hard for this stuff. The world is going to end unless you buy more expensive organic food, more expensive electric / hybrid cars, more expensive freezers. Oh yeah and buy carbon credits for anything you do that adds the "poison" CO2 into the air.
Just like Maddox came up with the idea of eating twice as much meat to cancel out a vegetarian; if anyone I know buys one of these I will get a freezer from 1965 that blows freon directly into the air. -
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