What is Digg?182 Comments
- alapoet, on 07/09/2008, -12/+32I live on Puget Sound and often shop in Seattle.
I support the ban, because it works towards sustainable levels of consumption. So do most people around here. - Homerr, on 07/09/2008, -19/+37I live here in Seattle and support the ban. I use canvas bags for shopping. I ride my bike to work. I fit in here. If you don't like it, live somewhere else.
- GrimPraetorian, on 07/10/2008, -5/+19Sounds a lot like the if you don't like America, you can leave slogan. Hows this, I live in Seattle too and I don't give a ***** how you get to work or how you shop for you're groceries.
- Pascalll, on 07/09/2008, -18/+32This is a good step forward, though it probably should be implemented sooner than that.
- doiveo, on 07/10/2008, -7/+19I like the idea of a fee - it should be sold as the cost to clean up the garbage. Make the cost of using something Full Cycle meaning you pay for the use and the proper disposal. It's just responsible.
- filmbandit, on 07/10/2008, -4/+13i hope all these creeping socialism paranoids will keep using their plastic bags -- put them over their heads and walk into walls.
the wall they're going to hit will be economic necessity, just like all our depression era grandparents that recycled and scrimped their entire lives.
it's not about paper or plastic -- it's not political -- it's about everybody here in the u.s. thinking it's alright to throw and throw and throw ***** away. - chrisinsocalif, on 07/10/2008, -8/+17We have enough space for waste management, imposing more fee's is just ridiculous. I should keep the right to have plastic or paper (paper is renewable and grown in tree farms) without fee's. Yet the stupid people with propaganda about green BS which costs the consumer more money (and in many cases not beneficial, dont believe me look up recycling....biggest scam ever, except for aluminum.) People are so willing to shell out money for green products because of BS propaganda. Man made global warming...BS along with many other green solutions. Follow the dollar signs. Using guilt trips to benefit someones pocket. Good job. yeah I know you tree huggers will digg me down, but before you do that, please read a few articles on green products.
- MalumProhibitum, on 07/10/2008, -9/+17Um... a fee for paper bags? They are already biodegradeable.
Im old enough to remember when people chose to go with plastic to 'save the forests'. LOL.
I swear you freaking hippies will not make up your minds. - Gav0510, on 07/10/2008, -2/+9Yeah, but the production of paper bags also creates a lot of toxic material. And plastic bags are reusable.
- emko00, on 07/10/2008, -1/+8i know im not really enviromentaly friendly but i do use those fabric bags to go shopping for food. I wouldnt go out and buy solar panel or something crazy like that but this is a really simple thing to do and it doesnt cost much plus u can reuse for a long time and use the plastic for something els.
- Ouze, on 07/10/2008, -2/+9while plastic bags are not "good" for the environment, paper bags:
1.) weigh much, much more and are far far bulkier. Hence take up far more room and fuel when being transported by trucks (which don't run on rainbows and unicorn songs). Think: You have a plastic bag full of other plastic bags in your kitchen probably? Most people do. How many paper bags could you stuff in there?
2.) Paper bags, obviously, are made of trees. I hear these are useful.
3.) Paper bag production uses lots of chemicals, tons of water, and leaves lots of hazardous runoff.
4.) Recycling paper bags repeats all the bad stuff in step 3 (repulping etc). Recycling plastic bags essentially involves heating and reblowing.
5.) It's also worth mentioning that although paper is biodegradable, it doesn't happen too much in practice: in much of the worth, our garbage goes into landfills. Absent of moisture and oxygen and sunlight, paper breaks down just as fast as plastic: not at all. Newspapers 50 years old have been dug out of landfills that were readable.
But this popular myth of plastic being more harmful then paper lives on. Again, you want to be truly virtuous: bring your own reusable bags. - birdly, on 07/10/2008, -9/+16Seattle rocks!
- filmbandit, on 07/10/2008, -2/+8man, i just can't get a handle on why digg discussions about resource-saving methods always brings out the folks that need to turn the discussion into some socialism-paranoid, red-blue argument.
my grandmother, like a few of yours, grew up during the great depression. her entire life she saved foil, twisty ties, coffee cans, bread bags, saltine tins, damn near everything. she scoffed at the idea of ziplock bags. 30-40 years ago she was bringing her own home-sewn grocery bags with her on every grocery trip. while it might have been her economic disposition that initially made her recycle she kept these practices her entire life.
recycling used to be just plain good ol' common sense, it wasn't some g.d. red-blue political statement.
you want to make the practice of recycling political, and a lifestyle choice, go ahead, but scrimping and conserving DID used to be good, common sense. keep that in mind. - RomeyRome, on 07/10/2008, -2/+8I'll be sure to bring in and spread around plenty of plastic bags from Bellevue.
So would it be illegal to stand outside of a store & hand out free plastic bags? - subterfuge, on 07/10/2008, -2/+8it's fine with me if the citizens of seattle want to go to the trouble to carry canvas bags around with them instead of using plastic bags (which are recyclable, btw), but i'm glad that this was passed by the local government so i don't have to do it too. the more localized the government is, the better. federal government sucks. and even europe's federalizing now, under the EU. i'm on vacation in denmark right now, and smoking has been banned in all their bars because of an EU mandate that they didnt want. and a lot of people smoke in denmark.
also, what is the money collected through the fees used for? IMO, taxes should only be levied if there is something specific they are going to be used for, not in order to force people to do things the way the government wants them to be done. - thespiff, on 07/10/2008, -0/+6What I HATE is when I buy something small at CVS or wherever, and carry it to the counter in my hand, but the clerk just automatically puts it in a plastic bag as if I need those handles. And if I don't say something BEFORE she gets the bag out it's too late, because there's a trash can next to the counter, and if I reject the bag after she's already pulled it off the bunch, she just throws it in the trash. So I might as well take it.
- emko00, on 07/10/2008, -4/+10so from all the comments i see Diggers like to use plastic bags and when people talk ***** about how its bad they act like kids and say they are gona triple bag there stuff WTF? You guys know you can buy a ***** fabric bag that's really cheap and REUSE IT? or is that to hard ? Here is how it works u buy the bag go to your store fill it up empty it at home and bring it with u again when u are going to go shopping.
- filmbandit, on 07/10/2008, -1/+6we can do that -- and you folks should not embrace our screwed up model for an industrial revolution. it's not sustainable.
- LogicalThinker, on 07/10/2008, -5/+10Certain cities in Japan and some countries in Europe such as Germany and the Netherlands charge for plastics bags at grocery stores. Stores such as AH in Netherlands and Ichigokan in Nagoya (where I used to live) encouraged people to bring their own reusable bags.
- nikgare, on 07/10/2008, -1/+6I can't really belive that this is news.
I've been living in Germany for over 10 years, and plastic bags have never been free here.
Everyone (well nearly everyone) uses either reuseable cotton bags (which you can by in the shop for not much money), colapsable plastic boxes which you load directly in your car or something similar.
You'd be amazed at the difference it makes - whenerver I go back to England to visit (sorry, I'm English) I am amazed at how much of the rubbish are the free plastic bags that are foistered on you when you buy anything there. - Pusod, on 07/10/2008, -5/+1020 cents is too much, the price per plastic bag should be 5 cents a piece in honor of the mayor Mr. Nickel!
- whiteguysamurai, on 07/10/2008, -4/+9We all know hemp is the answer.
- whiteguysamurai, on 07/10/2008, -3/+8That's nice an all, about china being progressive in this one aspect.
However, China kind of sucks when it comes to basic human rights, so give us all a call back when you get that done. - tony979, on 07/10/2008, -0/+5Glad someone finally woke up. Bottle water is more expensive than gasoline and the plastic just fills up our garbage dumps. There is nothing wrong with tap water where I live, in fact if we have plastic bottles, we just fill them up from the tap and go on.
- PeppermintPig, on 07/10/2008, -4/+9But aren't people already paying for trash services? I want to see more environmentally friendly solutions, but not by compromising on liberty. It's not possible to force responsibility on other people.
- MacEnvy, on 07/10/2008, -0/+5There are plenty of insulated packing materials that aren't styrofoam. I guess the suppliers will have to use them. They certainly aren't going to stop serving Western Washington (several million people) just because they have to change their packaging.
- Ouze, on 07/10/2008, -5/+9the article is unclear - in one part, it has a surcharge on any bags, and in another bans only paper bags. Which is foolish, since plastic bags are actually better for the environment then paper bags.
Of course, bringing your own reusable bags is still the best solution. - mattlohkamp, on 07/10/2008, -0/+4there's a city that's giving high-efficiency vehicles free parking or something, right? Sounds like a good idea.
- laserdisc, on 07/10/2008, -1/+5Great... just another expense the lower class families need to deal with. As if they don't already have a tough time at it is during this recession. Sure a nickel here and there doesn't seem like much but this stuff adds up. Just another tax for the poor. God forbid they increase or add additional taxes for HUGE gas guzzling luxury vehicles.
Don't fool yourself. This isn't about the "environment" or being "green". It's all about the money. - MalumProhibitum, on 07/10/2008, -1/+5paper recycling is funded by tax dollars.... And recycling it creates more toxic waste than new paper ever could, AND 99% of all paper production comes from tree FARMS, just like your tofuburger.
- vertigoacid, on 07/10/2008, -0/+4The use of styrofoam for food services has been banned here in Portland for some time. You don't here a lot of complaining about it.
Good on you Seattle. - filmbandit, on 07/10/2008, -2/+6why is your post getting dugg down when what you're saying is all true!!!!
it's because these isolated, ignorant, under-traveled xenophobes think you must be a socialist for saying we should catch a clue from the netherlands or japan. - WiretapStudios, on 07/10/2008, -0/+4I use cloth bags, but I still get a lot of plastic. They are good for carrying lunches in, lining the bathroom trash cans, etc. At least use them for SOMEthing after you are done with them.
- bombula, on 07/10/2008, -1/+5You're a moron with no knowledge whatsoever about the importance of sustainability - economic, ecological and environmental. Go back to listening to Limbaugh and Coulter and leave Digg to those of us with the intelligence and fortitude to fix the world you and your redneck trailer trash ilk have ***** up so badly for everyone.
- mattlohkamp, on 07/10/2008, -1/+4you've got a perfectly valid point - I worked with marketing company up until a few months ago, and everything was eco, eco, eco, ad naseum.
On the other hand - what could it hurt to stop tossing things in the landfill? Maybe they're recyclable in some instances - but why recycle if you don't have to? It might not be as good as its made out to be, but it's not fraud by any means. Anything you can do to reduce waste products is good, and besides, you'll still have 'the right to have plastic or paper', you'll just have to pay for it, like you'd have to pay for any luxury. Seems pretty reasonable to me. - MacEnvy, on 07/10/2008, -1/+4Why wouldn't you bring your own mug to the coffee shop? Around here they charge less if you bring your own cup (Stewart's shops in NY) ... what kind of idiot would turn down a deal like that if they had a choice?
You sound like you're a little too stupid for your own good. - busket, on 07/10/2008, -0/+3You lost at "the market fixes everything". And at your use of the word "socialist". The market is good for what it's good for, when it has anything to do with fixing things it is completely coincidental.
Anyone who pays attention knows that occasionally, "socialists" have to step in and tell the market what it can't do. - PeppermintPig, on 07/10/2008, -0/+3"It is the JOB of government to regulate."
If it's their job, then I fire them. If the services provided by government were desired, people would be paying for them.
"You people keep forgetting that "government" in the US is supposed to be inclusive of you."
***** no. I want no part in the murder and violation of rights that the government perpetrates in the name of fill in the blank. If you want to take responsibility for those things, go ahead. - askantik, on 07/10/2008, -0/+3I know exactly how you feel. Even if you buy something that already has a handle, like a pack of beer, they put it in a big. Why?????????????????????????
:( - Homerr, on 07/10/2008, -0/+3Us 'liberal weenies' here in Seattle are used to being told by the rest of the country to 'love it or leave it' on many national issues for the past few years, mostly by conservatives. I'm just using the same argument as a counterpoint.
- PeppermintPig, on 07/10/2008, -0/+3"Let's be pragmatic though: It works."
It all depends on what your goals are. I suppose if the goal was to kill Jews, then Hitler had a rather successful plan, no?
The point is, it's rather sad that people don't make these choices without the force of government. Get the government off the people's backs, and they'll have more money to afford the more costly but environmentally friendlier solutions. But go ahead and keep using the same tired solutions to marginalize freedom of choice. By moderating liberty, you promote despotism and collective wealth redistribution.
One last thing...
"Just because they are currently corrupt and insane doesn't mean that the basic premise is wrong."
'If we only had the RIGHT leaders in place, the system would work.'
The premise is flawed. The system can, and often does act in immoral ways that hurt people. Hoping for this to not be the case is wishful thinking. - MutatedNantuko, on 07/10/2008, -4/+7Well, I work at walmart and whenever we bail about a fourth ton of cardboard we get $3000 for the store. And we make about 3 bails a day, sometimes bails of complete plastic and junk. So yeah, you're an idiot for thinking that all of recycling is a scam.
- Lollerskater, on 07/10/2008, -0/+3To give an indication, I live in the Netherlands as well and I've encountered charges for plastic bags of up to 45 Euro cents. 15 or 20 Euro cents seems more common.
Mind you these are not flimsy bags you pull from a roll but quite sturdy ones. And this works in multiple ways: not only will people use their own reusable bags but if needed to they'll reuse the plastic bags several times as well. - PeppermintPig, on 07/10/2008, -6/+9I use canvas bags for shopping whenever I can, but I don't support the idea of using government to mandate solutions. It's forceful, and its wrong.
- WiretapStudios, on 07/10/2008, -1/+4I DON'T live in Seattle and I DO give a ***** how he gets to work and gets groceries. Because it affects ALL of us.
- Texadian, on 07/10/2008, -1/+3@ Ouze
I used to work in the factory (Poly-America) that makes those plastic bags and it is not a simple heat and reblow process! It takes an enormous amount of energy to make these bags and some pretty nasty chemicals too I know because I had to handle those chemicals! I have been in paper mills too and I am not saying that they are any better (both places smell horrible) just that your little heat and reblow theory is WAY simplified! - sodoh, on 07/10/2008, -2/+420 cents may be too little. It isn't to cut back on bags you get in the shop. It is to make you bring your own bags and not buy them at all unless absolutely required.
They have this in Ireland and works quite well. But we don't charge for Paper as that already bio-degrades. Ireland also has multiple bins for various recycling material. So that may be why. - Duositex, on 07/10/2008, -1/+3Paper is a renewable resource. Plastic is not.
- spaceddaisy, on 07/10/2008, -0/+2Well in Ireland (and here in the Netherlands too by the way) it's not in the law, it's basically just custom. Grocery stores charge 25 or 50 cents for a strong plastic bag, some stores also have smaller bags for 10 cents. Most people buy a big bag every now and then and reuse that for a while or buy other stronger/bigger bags or even crates for in your trunk that you put your groceries in.
Like the bagging of groceries in US stores. I was amazed to see that when I first visited the US! Over here you just stand at the end of the belt and put everything in your bags yourself (or in your kart and unload it into your car).
Another difference is in the Netherlands we pay a recycle-fee on plastic soda bottles, it's 25 cents. When you have finished your bottle, you can bring them to any store that sells bottles and get the money back.
We do the same with shopping karts by the way, you put in a 50 cent coin which you get back when you place it back with the other karts :) -
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