What is Digg?25 Comments
- geekchic, on 11/10/2008, -0/+8It'll work exactly the way it says - you just failed to understand its purpose.
The system will sell electricity when it is expensive and consume it when it is cheap - hence it can make a profit. In terms of energy generated, it will be neutral at best - but the key is to provide electricity when it is needed - namely when wind power is under performing.
It also then provides a baseload backup for variable windpower which in turn makes renewable sources more stable as a supply source. - JQP123, on 11/11/2008, -0/+6"This idea will never work in the way that's described in this article."
The description is bad ... and so is your understanding.
This is not really a power *generation* facility but more of a power *storage* facility.
In other words, it's just a really big mechanical battery. The battery is "charged" by pumping the water out of the reservoir. Energy is recovered when the water is allowed to flow back in. No laws of physics are being broken.
The reason for doing this should be obvious ... electricity from wind power can be captured and stored for later use when the wind isn't blowing enough to meet demand. - hiPpymIck, on 11/10/2008, -0/+6i know the Dutch specialize in reclaiming
land back from the sea using this method..
build a dyke then pump the water out from inside the wall
this idea is like a hydroelectric dam - but in a circle
but couldnt they use this idea somewhere tidal ..
they could get the sea itself to change the levels twice a day
without the need for any pumping
they could let the sea pour in through turbines
and pour out through turbines
.. and collect free reliable power 24/7
they could use it for baseload as tides are not intermittent
or they could at least maybe put windmills in to help pump the water - stayputnik, on 11/11/2008, -0/+3it would be if you had a large enough area walled off and only let the water in through a small portion of it.
- camg188, on 11/11/2008, -1/+4Dugg for "Pipes in dykes"
- LeadStripes, on 11/11/2008, -0/+3Because the water flows in from a higher point than where you are pumping it back to.
- inactive, on 11/11/2008, -0/+3It's not going to be neutral energy wise unless they have 100% efficient methods of transmission and pumping, neither of which are available. What they will have is the ability to store energy, albeit losing some of the energy along the way.
In effect it's going to be akin to a massive battery, pump energy in when cheap and plentiful and take power out when it's expensive or in short supply.
They already do something similar I understand with some dry land Hydro Stations, ie pump water 'back up' when there's excess. - Lewie, on 11/11/2008, -0/+3Perhaps it's coming in with a greater pressure = greater force = more energy.
- LeadStripes, on 11/11/2008, -0/+2The flow of the tides is not strong enough to produce enough energy.
- peacenik, on 11/11/2008, -0/+2Yes, as written, the author unwittingly described this incorrectly as a perpetual motion machine. Buried for lousy technical writing.
- hiPpymIck, on 11/11/2008, -0/+2from what i can tell its a huge deal for electricity suppliers to be able to guarantee supply at peak times and they are willing to pay extra for it - so thisll make a profit from that
i guess its like a giant storage battery for wind power - hiPpymIck, on 11/11/2008, -0/+2Holland is part of The Low Countries - its all at sea level
so the Dutch dont have any mountains lol - theadvinci, on 11/11/2008, -0/+2If I'm not wrong something like this was built in somewhere U.S. Only it wasn't an island but a mountain. The water is pumped up at night when the electricity is cheaper and poured down while producing electricity at day when electricity costs more.
- jorisb, on 11/11/2008, -0/+21500 MW is not similar to two large power stations. Bruce nuclear generates over 7000 MW with all reactors online.
- edd17, on 11/11/2008, -0/+1@m0wax
Holy crap you don't have a clue. Pumped storage schemes are used all over the world, water is pumped uphill into a reservoir when power is cheaper, and released at peak times. It is not 100% efficient, but can make a nice profit and increases the flexibility of electricity generation. What's been done here is simply turning the conventional idea inside out and upside-down.
I really don't understand how anyone who even pretends to know anything about energy generation could not know this. - MasterGrief, on 11/11/2008, -1/+2Haikus are easy
But sometimes they don't make sense
Refrigerator - chaos13037, on 11/11/2008, -1/+2"The electricity generated by the water pouring in is matched or exceeded by that needed to pump it out."
Doesn't this violate the Laws of Thermodynamics?? - hiPpymIck, on 11/11/2008, -0/+1no energy gain
- they plan to use it to supply expensive peak electric
but use cheap off peak power to pump it out
the cost difference being their profit - Zaggynl, on 11/11/2008, -0/+1Durr, I thought this was canned, oh well..
- vern59, on 11/11/2008, -4/+4OBAMA!
- camg188, on 11/11/2008, -1/+1But seriously, from the article:
"Pipes in dykes would allow sea water to pour in, generating electricity in the same way as some dams. The water would then be pumped out. The electricity generated by the water pouring in is matched or exceeded by that needed to pump it out."
This sounds bogus. How do you get a net energy gain by pumping out the same volume of water used to create the energy? - pantbash, on 11/11/2008, -0/+0http://www.esru.strath.ac.uk/EandE/Web_sites/01-02 ...
Works pretty well when used in conjuction with an Estuary.
It would work the same in open water. However I assume the construcion costs would be higher. - bernandoo, on 11/11/2008, -1/+1Why is the electricity required to pump out the water cheaper? This smells of an unsustainable idea to me.
- pantbash, on 11/11/2008, -0/+0I assume you could also use the tide as a benefit to reduce the amount of water to be pumped in.
Or increase the amount that can flow out.
If you could get the timings right it may operate with very little net energy use. - m0wax, on 11/10/2008, -8/+2The laws of perpetual motion say you can stick your hydroelectric plans up your dunger. This idea will never work in the way that's described in this article.
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