What is Digg?38 Comments
- analisau, on 10/12/2007, -4/+16Any author who can quote The Clash is good enough for me!
- omaryak, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11From Mother Jones magazine, August 1977:
"According to some of his own top advisers, President Carter's energy plan could have disastrous consequences for the environment. If carried out, the Carter energy plan could easily change the climate of the world in the next 30 years by more than it has changed in the last 100,000.
That heart-warming piece of advice comes from William Nordhaus, one of the President's top economic advisers, [who] told a meeting of scientists that dependence on coal in the Carter plan will lead to a rapid rise in atmospheric carbon dioxide, which will in turn lead to a rapid worldwide warming trend."
Even back then, people knew about the effects of carbon dioxide. The only thing they were wrong about is that CO2 is now higher than it has been in the last 600,000 years, not 100,000. - shefftim, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10This Newsweek article has taken on the status of an urban myth.
But also in 1975 the New York Times said earth was Heating
Scroll down to where it has the subtitle ‘Effect of Heat Waste’.
http://www.wmconnolley.org.uk/sci/iceage/ny-times-1975-01-19.pdf
The NYT notes concern over CO2 levels and fears that production of energy 'heat waste' will generate so much heat as to have a major climate impact. That did represent an emerging scientific concern of its time.
In 1975 the National Academy of Science (NAS) applied for funds to ‘Establish a national climatic research program’.
Some journalists went to town to try and convince readers this was important stuff. After all their job is to try and produce articles that’ll sell copies. As I’m sure their editors impress upon them.
The NY Times 1975 article was based on the same story as Newsweek’s ‘Cooling world’.
So don’t blame scientists, it was different approaches by (doubtless hard pressed) journalists.
The Newsweek article was written by staff writer: Peter Gwynne. (Who still works as a freelance science writer and is doubtless deeply unhappy this is being dragged up after all this time. Hey ho.) It wasn’t written a climatologist or member of the NAS.
Nor is Newsweek’s conclusion – Global Cooling - based on any scientific paper published in a scientific journal. It certainly doesn’t cite any. - omaryak, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8It does help to look at the geologic timescale, but only to show us how painfully obvious it is that the dramatic change in CO2 levels we are seeing in such a short period of time can only be coming from human sources. That we have higher CO2 levels now than in the past 600,000 years and that most of that change has happened in the last 30-150 years should be cause for alarm.
Rather than resting on the fact that the climate has changed from natural causes in the past, we need to wake up to the degree of change being generated by artificial sources in the present, and the consequences it will have on the human race long before our extinction by other means. - phej, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6It's not global warming or global cooling, the effect is really called 'Climate Change', people just refer to it as global warming because we understand that term better. The idea behind climate change is that cold areas get colder, hot areas get hotter due to CO2 waste we generate.
The Earth also has it's own cycles, but I don't think we're nearing an ice age anytime soon. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4So just why do people reply without first RTFA?
The point of the article is that the world is warming up, and the global cooling article (from 1975! most of you punks probably weren't even born then!) was wrong, and even in that issue there was contrary evidence, and global cooling not presented as fact. Instead the conclusion was that further research was needed.
FWIW, the logic back then was largely this: there's been at least 11 ice ages in the last 2 million years, with intervening warmer periods, so it's reasonable to expect another ice age when the present warmer period ends.
Today climatologists believe that human emissions have broken the cycle, and that if there will at all be any more ice ages then they're many thousands of years into the future.
Sure climatologists could be wrong, but that they were partly wrong in 1975 isn't in fact an argument in favor that they're wrong now. - ylikone, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4If you actually bother reading the article, these real scientists are AGREEING with Al Gore and commenting on how the global cooling thing was bad science.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6One thing, we know lead kills many people, is responcible for a wide variety of ailments and is dangerous, it sucked but we took it out of our gas. The gas comapnies fought hard and we still allow them to sell leaded gas to thrid world countries but anyway the lead in the air we breathe is now less. But this was fought tooth and nail by the oil companies and they even went so far to stage on of their ceos drinking a glass of diethyl lead. Now i dont know what was in the gass but we know it wasnt diethyl lead because science has advanced and we know the ld50 of diethyl lead. WHich is only a small ammount before it kills you.(ld50 is the lethal dose to kill an adverage of 50% of the population tested and in this case humans).. rome also had a problem with lead when they first introduced lead plumbing. and we know about lead paint, well the crap in the air is worse.
WE also know that cfcs also a greenhouse gas, destroys atomospheric level ozone. The ozone hole without a doubt was caused by us and cfcs. We have banned cfcs and the hole is repairing itself. This was also fought greatly but not as much as the oil and lead.
Seems to me science also has a long history of saving us, problem is they dont get noticed when they actually do save us and often i think it is because we lack the imagination of what life would be like today if we didnt change our course. - geekfreak, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5With the reduction in particulate emissions over the past 20 years affecting global dimming http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_dimming, the significance of greenhouse gases now have a greater effect in the overall climate structure of the planet. This is both hopeful and worrying, as it shows we can take action globally to affect the climate, but in doing so have removed a significant inhibiting factor on the causes of global warming and exacerbated the problem.
It is a delicate balancing act. - drizek, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6there is no trade off. Its not like were going to start pumping sulfure dioxide into the atmosphere to offset the effects of greenhouses gases. The solution, of course, is to stop sending up greenhouse gases in the first place.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Yeah, unfortunately drizek is right. Their shows are entertaining but not always well researched. The piece about passive smoking is probably the most obvious.
- ylikone, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2READ THE ARTICLE BEFORE YOU IGNORNANTLY POST!
Geesh, so many people posting here thinking that this is a PRO global cooling article! IT IS NOT! It talks about how global cooling of the 70's was bad science.
Learn to read people! - disparue, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5Actually, the world did experience a decline in the average global temperature mid-century but this was because that various polutants that were in the air reflected heat back out into space. A specific example of this would be sulfur dioxide, which causes acid rain but which also has a cooling effect upon the world in the same way volcanic ash cools the world. Trade-off between preventing acid rain and global warming.
- ylikone, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Read the article... scientists have made up their minds. Global warming. Global cooling talk of the 70's was bad science. It's there in the article if you bother to read.
- omaryak, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3What actual scientists? It was a news article.
- rationalist, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2It is not the existence of the physical mass of Earth that concerns us, it is our quality of life on it.
The data speaks for itself, but apparently you are afraid to look at the data - otherwise you wouldn't make ignorant statements about "miniscule rise in temperature" or "the impact of CO2 emissions on a geological timescale".
The geological record, now review back 800,000 years, actually shows the tremendous impact CO2 emissions have had on all life on this planet. The record also shows that CO2 levels are now rising far beyond what they have risen during major Ice Ages and other climatic catastrophes.
You are afraid to review the data. Don't cite scientific figures to us until you have the courage to face the facts. - Daedalus17, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"The solution, of course, is to stop sending up greenhouse gases in the first place" -drizek
You do realizes that steam is a greenhouse gas right? - drizek, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3why? Just because they can make jokes about something doesnt mean they are right about it. Their show is so biased that i hate watching it even though i agree with them in most cases. They basically just ridicule anyone that doesnt agree with them, but then have very little evidence to back up their position.
- starmanjones, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1> Nor is Newsweek’s conclusion – Global Cooling - based on
> any scientific paper published in a scientific journal. It
> certainly doesn’t cite any.
you know... you can discredit all the attempts to understand and warn that we are screwing up and it may kill us all... but the fact is that we are effecting things. we need keep talking about it. hell, if it turned out that it was all just a big due about nothing it would still be right to keep trying to figure it out and make sure we don't screw up.
but the people you are criticizing have been out taking measurements while you do nothing but complain about them taking measurements and voicing an opinion. whether they are right or wrong they have an educated opinion. something the critics lack completely.
but the verdict is in. doesn't matter whether we did it. or whether it was just natural. we've taken core samples of the ice in greenland... and elsewhere. we've taken them off the bottom of the ocean. we have a record now. hard data.
what we see in the record is that when the glaciers in greenland melt and dilute the salinity at at the top of the gulf stream it stops its. when that happens... in as little as 10 years the temperature drops and its alaska in london, new york and all of canada.
its real. quit playing politics. the neoconservatives are done. stop with the rhetoric. it was always weak and now it just sounds stupid. - anonym41414, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3It's heating in the summer and cooling in the winter and in the future we'll all need two homes.
- ylikone, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Read the article, it's heating. They are talking about how cooling talk in the 70's was bad science.
- Draracle, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2Oh man, this stuff is still being pushed by the energy industry? This isn't even junk science, it is flat out lies. "No global warming. Everything is ok, go about your business.. you will all be fine... just keep burning our black juice." pffft... People believe this because it is "nicer", not the norm, and because they never bother to research who pays for this "research"
- Whodoe, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"Sure climatologists could be wrong, but that they were partly wrong in 1975 isn't in fact an argument in favor that they're wrong now."
Why not? But one thing is for certain, we need to be planning for difficulties resulting from a "global warming" and stop debating why we have it. I don't mean spending trillions on questionable emissions control, I mean shoring up areas in danger of storm damage and flooding. We can do that much today. - THEMACGOD, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3Just watch the Penn and Teller's ***** on Evironmental Hysteria.
- jamessavik, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2Damned scientists! I wish they would make up their minds.
Now what the f**k am I supposed to do with all these pontoons? - jajakola, on 02/20/2008, -1/+0http://n866.n0pain.net http://n786.n0pain.net http://n262.n0pain.net http://n216.n0pain.net http://n1115.n0pain.net http://n615.n0pain.net http://n1078.n0pain.net http://n1215.n0pain.net http://n91.n0pain.net http://n962.n0pain.net http://n507.n0pain.net http://n459.n0pain.net http://n178.n0pain.net http://n662.n0pain.net http://n878.n0pain.net http://n40.n0pain.net http://n1032.n0pain.net http://n111.n0pain.net http://n50.n0pain.net http://n971.n0pain.net http://n707.n0pain.net http://n859.n0pain.net http://n271.n0pain.net http://n448.n0pain.net http://n1074.n0pain.net http://n1186.n0pain.net http://n958.n0pain.net http://n316.n0pain.net http://n983.n0pain.net http://n727.n0pain.net http://n595.n0pain.net http://n220.n0pain.net http://n465.n0pain.net http://n498.n0pain.net http://n44.n0pain.net http://n252.n0pain.net http://n1023.n0pain.net http://n176.n0pain.net http://n695.n0pain.net 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- m3r0v1ng1an, on 10/12/2007, -4/+2In the grand scheme of the Universe, our insignificant little planet has been around for about 4.5 billion years. During that time it has been both a molten ball of fire and a freezing ball of ice. Species come and species go. Continents have split and collided, super volcanoes have covered the planet in lava, meteor collisions have blocked out the sun, species have gone extinct on a global level, glaciers have gouged their way across the planet, islands have collapsed into boiling seas, violent floods have torn dry earth asunder and you people are worried about a minuscule rise in temperature?
Please, get an ounce of perspective and consider the impact of CO2 emissions on a geological timescale. Look up in the sky tomorrow morning, cuz that giant ball of fire is going to run out of hydrogen in about 5 billion years and then you can really kiss planet Earth goodbye. - esourcemag, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1Soooooooooooooo....... is the Earth heating or cooling? Which is it cause I want to make sure I should either move north or move to higher ground.
- sedo1800, on 10/12/2007, -6/+4i am not saying there is not climate change happening( i live in buffalo and we just got 2 feet of snow and lost power for a week). However to even we are so far from understanding even a small fraction of what is happening. I do however hope that all the global warming people jump on the global cooling bandwagon, since it is no less plausible and no less funny.(we had a ice age 200 years ago LOL) don't mod me down global warming people you know you love me.
- Plezops, on 10/12/2007, -5/+2is "London Calling" you?
- CGorman68, on 10/12/2007, -5/+2Same here. Digg just for The Clash.
- ZenMojo, on 10/12/2007, -8/+4Hey, last year Pluto was a planet. Nothing surprises me anymore.
EDIT: Wait, there's no scientific evidence at all? - sedo1800, on 10/12/2007, -7/+2Wait just one second according to this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_dimming
if we get enough coal fired power plants and everyone burns their trash WE MIGHT BEAT GLOBAL WARMING BEFORE WE ALL DIE. Quick get Al Gore to make another movie. We can call this one a "Convenient 55g Drum fire" or maybe someone can suggest a better one. I expect all you global warming folks to support me on this. Better yet we should all start writing letters to our congressman right now and say stop global warming with global dimming. Then when once we make the world too cold we can fix that too, we can have everyone just idle their cars while we sleep the excess CO2 should do the trick. remember you read it on the WWW so it MUST be true. Pseudoscience FTW! - mikeman10001, on 10/12/2007, -5/+0cold areas get cooler? hot area get hotter?
thats why greenland and antartica are melting? and that why it was over 120 degree's (record high) in the middle east?
I wouldnt call that global cooling. I would call it what all of the scientists around the world have been calling it for the past 50 years. But then again... if you have no scientific ground.. and your trying to save money i guess you can tell everyone that the world is cooling.. and not to care about having to deal with CO2. - sedo1800, on 10/12/2007, -7/+1ya but GW wants is to stay the course. He is the president i would question him on that LOL ROFL
- Dakart, on 10/12/2007, -9/+2How dare those stupid *actual* climate scientists contradict the infinite wisdom of the Al Gore!!!!
- FrankieB078, on 10/12/2007, -11/+3I think America should vote to change the seasons from 4 a year to 2, both labeled "Cold", and "Hot." I think this would solve a lot of our problems with terminology. This way the government can scare us by just saying, "OMG It's getting 'Cold'...we are going to DIE." Or by saying, "OMG It's getting 'Hot'...we are going to DIE." This will help with the confusion amongst all sheep in America. Did I say sheep? I meant Americans....
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